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Author Topic: Lightning Network Discussion Thread  (Read 28954 times)
Queenvio
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March 01, 2019, 05:58:23 PM
 #361

This lightning project is kind of cool and funny  Grin

https://pollofeed.com

I remotely fed chickens for 1000 satoshis with almost no fees using the bitcoin lightning network. What did your Shitcoin do today?  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

Realy nice idea. I also set up may node the last days.

Its now 5 days old and I have 0 forward transactions. But its ok, lets see what happend in the future.
The other reason I set it up is because I want to add it to my discord-bot where you can now "buy" a role for some satoshi. Just for fun !!

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March 01, 2019, 08:47:36 PM
 #362

Do you make more money if you have a more expensive PC as a node rather than a simple Raspberry Pi? How does your system hardware affect your lighting node’s income?
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March 02, 2019, 01:37:47 PM
 #363

Do you make more money if you have a more expensive PC as a node rather than a simple Raspberry Pi? How does your system hardware affect your lighting node’s income?
I dont think the hardware will effect it. Its relevant, that user use the route over your node.
Important is that your node is online 24/7

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March 02, 2019, 06:45:09 PM
 #364

Do you make more money if you have a more expensive PC as a node rather than a simple Raspberry Pi? How does your system hardware affect your lighting node’s income?
I dont think the hardware will effect it. Its relevant, that user use the route over your node.
Important is that your node is online 24/7

It's only relevant when you have thousand active channels or you also run your server/payment processor on PI's as well where your PI's isn't powerful enough.

BTC Balance on your channel is also important, otherwise you might not have enough BTC to route a transaction.

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March 03, 2019, 08:46:59 PM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)
 #365

Lightning is on par to replace the legacy providers (Visa, Mastercard...). But it won't be without resistance, expect some FUD on the way  Wink

https://bitcoinist.com/kroger-smiths-visa-bitcoin-lightning-network/
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March 04, 2019, 06:41:38 AM
 #366

Do you make more money if you have a more expensive PC as a node rather than a simple Raspberry Pi? How does your system hardware affect your lighting node’s income?
I dont think the hardware will effect it. Its relevant, that user use the route over your node.
Important is that your node is online 24/7

It's only relevant when you have thousand active channels or you also run your server/payment processor on PI's as well where your PI's isn't powerful enough.

BTC Balance on your channel is also important, otherwise you might not have enough BTC to route a transaction.

How does your btc balance affect routing? I can’t understand. Do you need some btc to open channels?
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March 04, 2019, 07:06:52 AM
Merited by ETFbitcoin (1)
 #367

How does your btc balance affect routing? I can’t understand. Do you need some btc to open channels?

You can't open a channel without putting any coins inside of it. It would not make any sense otherwise. The more BTC you lock up in a channel, the more different payments you can route. Some people are complaining that they payments don't go through because many channels are too small (they don't have enough BTC) to route their payments. Your balance is not the only factor. Nobody is going to route a payment through you if you are not well-conneted and if your fee policy is not configured properly.

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March 08, 2019, 12:41:12 AM
Merited by vapourminer (1)
 #368

As this is LN discussion thread i want to ask several questions.

If I have an active channel between me and one of my friend, after even hundred of transactions between us the blockchain will only record 2 transactions one for opening and second one is for closing the channel.

My question is if my amount left in multi-signature address of channel is 0 BTC, and i want to deposit more BTC for more transactions, will my existing channel will be closed? And should i need to reopen that channel? Or I can use my existing channel? And how many transactions will be recorded on blockchain?

 
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March 08, 2019, 06:09:05 AM
Merited by vapourminer (1), ETFbitcoin (1)
 #369

My question is if my amount left in multi-signature address of channel is 0 BTC, and i want to deposit more BTC for more transactions, will my existing channel will be closed? And should i need to reopen that channel? Or I can use my existing channel? And how many transactions will be recorded on blockchain?

Unfortunately, you can't refill an opened channel with an on-chain transaction. Lightning Conductor is a third party service which will send you coins over the LN for the on-chain ones and vice-versa. It's not possible to maintain a channel while it has 0 BTC on-chain. You can't even spend your channel's funds completely. Two percent of total channel balance is reserved and can't be spent.

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March 08, 2019, 09:07:31 PM
 #370

My question is if my amount left in multi-signature address of channel is 0 BTC, and i want to deposit more BTC for more transactions, will my existing channel will be closed? And should i need to reopen that channel? Or I can use my existing channel? And how many transactions will be recorded on blockchain?

Unfortunately, you can't refill an opened channel with an on-chain transaction. Lightning Conductor is a third party service which will send you coins over the LN for the on-chain ones and vice-versa. It's not possible to maintain a channel while it has 0 BTC on-chain. You can't even spend your channel's funds completely. Two percent of total channel balance is reserved and can't be spent.

Thanks for the clarification, i don't appreciate lightning network for this as i have to request or open a new channel whenever i have to refill it.   Sad

 
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March 08, 2019, 11:49:34 PM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1), Rath_ (1)
 #371

My question is if my amount left in multi-signature address of channel is 0 BTC, and i want to deposit more BTC for more transactions, will my existing channel will be closed? And should i need to reopen that channel? Or I can use my existing channel? And how many transactions will be recorded on blockchain?

A future feature called "Splicing" will enable this functionality. It's a fairly new idea though, it will take a while to get implemented in Lightning software.

The idea is for both "Splice-In" (what you're asking for: adding on-chain funds to a pre-existing channel, without closing the channel), as well as "Splice-Out" (withdrawing funds from a channel using an on-chain tx, without closing the channel)

Vires in numeris
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March 09, 2019, 02:01:48 AM
 #372

My question is if my amount left in multi-signature address of channel is 0 BTC, and i want to deposit more BTC for more transactions, will my existing channel will be closed? And should i need to reopen that channel? Or I can use my existing channel? And how many transactions will be recorded on blockchain?

A future feature called "Splicing" will enable this functionality. It's a fairly new idea though, it will take a while to get implemented in Lightning software.

The idea is for both "Splice-In" (what you're asking for: adding on-chain funds to a pre-existing channel, without closing the channel), as well as "Splice-Out" (withdrawing funds from a channel using an on-chain tx, without closing the channel)

That's impressive, i was wondering that how they can ignore this feature.
I am expecting actual implementation of this feature in near future.

 
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March 09, 2019, 09:37:49 AM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)
 #373

My question is if my amount left in multi-signature address of channel is 0 BTC, and i want to deposit more BTC for more transactions, will my existing channel will be closed? And should i need to reopen that channel? Or I can use my existing channel? And how many transactions will be recorded on blockchain?

A future feature called "Splicing" will enable this functionality. It's a fairly new idea though, it will take a while to get implemented in Lightning software.

The idea is for both "Splice-In" (what you're asking for: adding on-chain funds to a pre-existing channel, without closing the channel), as well as "Splice-Out" (withdrawing funds from a channel using an on-chain tx, without closing the channel)


This might not be relevant, but there's also an idea called "Channel Factories". The explanation can be quite complicated, but the short explanation is "they are payment channels that can be used to create more payment channels".

https://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/67158/what-are-channel-factories-and-how-do-they-work

Quote

The key feature of a regular payment channel is the ability to securely update the state (balance) of the channel many times without creating extra on-chain transactions, so the key feature of a Channel Factory is the ability to securely create and destroy new payment channels without creating extra on-chain transactions.


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March 20, 2019, 08:34:09 AM
 #374

What? IOUs in Lightning? That's why there's a lot of misinformed newbies in the forum who believe, and argue that the Bitcoins in Lightning are IOUs or "pegged tokens". Because there are more misinformed people, who didn't do their research, writing about them, and publishing them.

https://thenextweb.com/hardfork/2018/11/19/what-is-lightning-network-scalability/

Quote

Effectively, the Lightning Network operates by generating IOUs between the parties of a payment channel. Technically, no one actually owns the money held in that channel whilst it is open.

When it’s closed, all of those IOUs are settled, and the Bitcoin balances of all relevant parties are amended accordingly with the most up-to-date transaction record, ensuring their validity.


Roll Eyes

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March 20, 2019, 09:07:55 AM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)
 #375

What? IOUs in Lightning? That's why there's a lot of misinformed newbies in the forum who believe, and argue that the Bitcoins in Lightning are IOUs or "pegged tokens". Because there are more misinformed people, who didn't do their research, writing about them, and publishing them.

https://thenextweb.com/hardfork/2018/11/19/what-is-lightning-network-scalability/

I don't think that IOUs are that bad a comparison, it's just misleading in that IOUs imply counterparty risk which LN pretty much nullifies (assuming you keep an eye on your channel for adversarial behaviour). While this simplification may lead to fundamental misunderstandings (as simplifications always do) I'm also not sure what other metaphors would be suitable to explain LN to the layman or laywoman.

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March 20, 2019, 01:58:01 PM
 #376

What? IOUs in Lightning? That's why there's a lot of misinformed newbies in the forum who believe, and argue that the Bitcoins in Lightning are IOUs or "pegged tokens". Because there are more misinformed people, who didn't do their research, writing about them, and publishing them.

https://thenextweb.com/hardfork/2018/11/19/what-is-lightning-network-scalability/

I don't think that IOUs are that bad a comparison, it's just misleading in that IOUs imply counterparty risk which LN pretty much nullifies (assuming you keep an eye on your channel for adversarial behaviour). While this simplification may lead to fundamental misunderstandings (as simplifications always do) I'm also not sure what other metaphors would be suitable to explain LN to the layman or laywoman.

And the issue we currently find ourselves in is that because there isn't a simple analogy, purely becuase it's radically different to anything we've done before, it's easy for people to spread FUD about it and make it sound worse than it actually is. 

I hope people can keep an open mind and weigh up the cost/benefit ratio for themselves, rather than just taking these people at their word when they are oversimplifying things.

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March 20, 2019, 02:26:35 PM
 #377

I don't think that IOUs are that bad a comparison, it's just misleading in that IOUs imply counterparty risk which LN pretty much nullifies (assuming you keep an eye on your channel for adversarial behaviour). While this simplification may lead to fundamental misunderstandings (as simplifications always do) I'm also not sure what other metaphors would be suitable to explain LN to the layman or laywoman.

And the issue we currently find ourselves in is that because there isn't a simple analogy, purely becuase it's radically different to anything we've done before, it's easy for people to spread FUD about it and make it sound worse than it actually is. 

I hope people can keep an open mind and weigh up the cost/benefit ratio for themselves, rather than just taking these people at their word when they are oversimplifying things.

I mean that's pretty much what happened when Bitcoin entered the scene as well. Lots of misconceptions and nuances getting lost but the general understanding improved over time. Bitcoin went from "How is this different from Microsoft Points?" to "What prevents people from making their own Bitcoin?" to "Bitcoin is obsolete, it's all about blockchain the technology". All misunderstandings in their own right but at least somewhat getting closer to an actual understanding of cryptocurrencies (if ever so slowly). I presume the public's understanding of LN will undergo a similar evolution.

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March 21, 2019, 03:33:06 AM
Last edit: March 21, 2019, 03:45:08 AM by Khaos77
 #378

https://www.trustnodes.com/2019/03/13/lightning-network-has-many-routing-problems-says-lead-dev-at-lightning-labs

Quote
according to Alex Bosworth, lead developer at Lightning Labs.

Quote
it helps to bear in mind that Lightning works on an I Owe You (IOU) basis.

Quote
only promises are moving.

So I make you a promise, and that’s fine, but now you need to be able to receive the promise.
By that presumably is meant that I can prove I have the bitcoin and can send the promise,

Which one of you want to tell the LEAD DEVELOPER at Lightning Labs, he need to do more research. LOFL   Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

LN does nothing more than trade IOUs/Promises/Promisory Notes between LN users,
why some people want to think it is something else, is pure fantasy on their part.
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March 21, 2019, 03:42:20 AM
 #379

https://www.trustnodes.com/2019/03/13/lightning-network-has-many-routing-problems-says-lead-dev-at-lightning-labs

Quote
according to Alex Bosworth, lead developer at Lightning Labs.

Quote
it helps to bear in mind that Lightning works on an I Owe You (IOU) basis.

Quote
only promises are moving.

So I make you a promise, and that’s fine, but now you need to be able to receive the promise.
By that presumably is meant that I can prove I have the bitcoin and can send the promise,

Which one of you want to tell the LEAD DEVELOPER at Lightning Labs, he need to do more research. LOFL   Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
... That's not a direct quote from Alex. That's something the author is saying himself.

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March 21, 2019, 03:46:14 AM
 #380

https://www.trustnodes.com/2019/03/13/lightning-network-has-many-routing-problems-says-lead-dev-at-lightning-labs

Quote
according to Alex Bosworth, lead developer at Lightning Labs.

Quote
it helps to bear in mind that Lightning works on an I Owe You (IOU) basis.

Quote
only promises are moving.

So I make you a promise, and that’s fine, but now you need to be able to receive the promise.
By that presumably is meant that I can prove I have the bitcoin and can send the promise,

Which one of you want to tell the LEAD DEVELOPER at Lightning Labs, he need to do more research. LOFL   Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
... That's not a direct quote from Alex. That's something the author is saying himself.

Everything below according to Alex Bosworth, lead developer at Lightning Labs.

Was Alex speaking.

So you're wrong about that in addition.  Kiss
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