Who is the dumper on mtgox ?

[marvinrouge]

How is it possible to dump less than the half of the price of the other exchanges ? Anyway the cash is trapped too  
Who throw away thousands of coin ?
Any thoughts ?  

[1714875751]

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[catcow]

it does not make any sense. i'm worried something very bad is going on, but i have no idea what.

dumping because gox is insolvent does you no good, so i don't think that is the cause of this.

(i also think gox is solvent)

[odolvlobo]

My guess is that people with BTC on Mt. Gox now believe that they are more likely to be able to withdraw dollars than BTC. I think that the belief is that some amount of BTC is missing and the dollars can be audited and recovered if Mt. Gox closes, and the BTC can't. I don't know if any of that is true. It is just an educated guess.

[thelema93]

presumably because Gox has temporarily halted BTC withdrawals, a whole bunch of paranoids are selling their coins so they can withdraw the fiat instead. A panic sell off of BTC = massive price drop on Gox. I don't think there's anything more sinister than that going on - unless you can prove it?

[dropt]

It was me.  Sorry guys, clicked the wrong button.

[fonzie]

@thelema 93 u have been preachin "everything is alright on MtGox for days".. Won´t you ever feel stupid or at least stop it?

[JCviggen]

While just an unlikely conspiracy theory, it could help a fiat strapped Mt.Gox to have everyone buy BTC and then move it off the exchange once withdrawals are enabled.

At this point I'm not sure what is going on, except that there has to be some agenda under the surface. It makes no sense for huge BTC holders to do anything but sit back and pray withdrawals are soon re-enabled. Dumping 60% below the average price elsewhere makes no sense unless they know something we don't. Nothing released so far suggests to me that the odds of Gox going down are 60%.

[Wilhelm]

Who th F@#$ is Satoshi Sakamato? Evil half-twin of Satoshi Nakamato?  

I think someone made a whoops in his market order. Put in $80 instead of $800

[Mythul]

This is just crazy. I'm sure something is not right on Gox. Not all traders there could be that stupid !

[Lethn]

Who th F@#$ is Satoshi Sakamato? Evil half-twin of Satoshi Nakamato?  

I think someone made a whoops in his market order. Put in $80 instead of $800

It's amazingly easy to do if you aren't paying attention.

[Wilhelm]

This is just crazy. I'm sure something is not right on Gox. Not all traders there could be that stupid !

What would you do if you had 200 BTC stuck on GOX?

[marvinrouge]

Who th F@#$ is Satoshi Sakamato? Evil half-twin of Satoshi Nakamato?  

I think someone made a whoops in his market order. Put in $80 instead of $800

woops ! 

[marvinrouge]

This is just crazy. I'm sure something is not right on Gox. Not all traders there could be that stupid !

What would you do if you had 200 BTC stuck on GOX?

Just wait ?

[molecular]

My guess is that people with BTC on Mt. Gox now believe that they are more likely to be able to withdraw dollars than BTC. I think that the belief is that some amount of BTC is missing and the dollars can be audited and recovered if Mt. Gox closes, and the BTC can't. I don't know if any of that is true. It is just an educated guess.

In case gox is insolvent it's probably easier to claim cents on the dollar for a USD balance than a BTC balance.

[marvinrouge]

Who th F@#$ is Satoshi Sakamato? Evil half-twin of Satoshi Nakamato?  

I think someone made a whoops in his market order. Put in $80 instead of $800

It's amazingly easy to do if you aren't paying attention.

Or filling the 'sell' form instead of the 'buy'  

[marvinrouge]

My guess is that people with BTC on Mt. Gox now believe that they are more likely to be able to withdraw dollars than BTC. I think that the belief is that some amount of BTC is missing and the dollars can be audited and recovered if Mt. Gox closes, and the BTC can't. I don't know if any of that is true. It is just an educated guess.

In case gox is insolvent it's probably easier to claim cents on the dollar for a USD balance than a BTC balance.

You make a point

[Wilhelm]

Who th F@#$ is Satoshi Sakamato? Evil half-twin of Satoshi Nakamato?  

I think someone made a whoops in his market order. Put in $80 instead of $800

It's amazingly easy to do if you aren't paying attention.

Or filling the 'sell' form instead of the 'buy'  

I had a boo-boo on cryptsy once. You click on a value and it auto-populates. Then you click the sell when you wanted buy.
When the order fills directly you think YEAHHH!!! and then you realize FFFFUUUUUU!!!!

[Lethn]

Who th F@#$ is Satoshi Sakamato? Evil half-twin of Satoshi Nakamato?  

I think someone made a whoops in his market order. Put in $80 instead of $800

It's amazingly easy to do if you aren't paying attention.

Or filling the 'sell' form instead of the 'buy'  

I clicked on a sell order once and lost a good portion of 0.1BTC because it didn't ask me to confirm so I didn't notice what I was doing stay away from those fill orders unless you know what you're doing.

[marvinrouge]

Who th F@#$ is Satoshi Sakamato? Evil half-twin of Satoshi Nakamato?  

I think someone made a whoops in his market order. Put in $80 instead of $800

It's amazingly easy to do if you aren't paying attention.

Or filling the 'sell' form instead of the 'buy'  

I had a boo-boo on cryptsy once. You click on a value and it auto-populates. Then you click the sell when you wanted buy.
When the order fills directly you think YEAHHH!!! and then you realize FFFFUUUUUU!!!!

I know that 

[Tzupy]

I voted manipulator. Before the dumps there was a spike from 380$ to 540$, probably
the manipulator bought his own coins, and then sold them to create downward momentum.
MtGox should have stopped the trading after seeing this unnatural market movement,
and then resume trading only after withdrawals would resume.

[silverston]

MtGox should have stopped the trading after seeing this unnatural market movement,
and then resume trading only after withdrawals would resume.

+1

[molecular]

MtGox should have stopped the trading after seeing this unnatural market movement,
and then resume trading only after withdrawals would resume.

+1

mtgox should've stopped the whole company.

what a farce.

[GeniuSxBoY]

If this is what it takes to get solvent again, then I'm for it. I'm not playing with fire and selling because I know that when I do, Gox will announce that they are trading again

[TaaviK]

Everyone who had fiat on Gox and was tempted to buy bitcoins has already bought them. I believe there are very few people left who have fiat on Gox that they sold quite higher and are hoping for it to still go lower to buy in.
What the whale is doing is giving the appearance that the coins really are this cheap on Gox while in reality they are actually not because there is almost noone left to buy them. There are however HODLERS and gullible speculators who are panicing and are induced into selling their coins thinking the price will go even lower. The lower the price goes the bigger the chance that these people will finally sell their coins.

What is actually going on as mentioned many times before is that the whale is selling coins to his own walls and hoping weak hands will panic and sell theirs aswell. He has done it a few times already in the last few days. It started with selling pressure of 20-50 btc batches being sold every 7-10min. This went on for ~24-36h nonstop and then he increased it to 100-300 btc bathes sold every 3-4min because at one point there were people who had fiat on Gox who wanted to buy cheap bitcoins and were creating buying pressure. So the whale compensated and made the situation look even more bleak.

I thought 300 would be the bottom since Gox is probably close to fixing the withdrawals and the whale probably milked people enough these last few days but actually what we are seeing is that the whale is interested in making money and has zero morals to go with it. He is going to milk this community till the very last moment before withdrawals to get as much as possible regardless of the damage to other people or to bitcoin.

If the whale can squeeze in another cycle of this constant selling pressure followed by his walls trying to push the price up again then he will do it. It will probably not happen since a) MtGox will probably fix the withdrawal situation on monday and b) when the banks start working on monday there will be new fiat flying in to buy those cheap coins.

[Peter R]

Everyone who had fiat on Gox and was tempted to buy bitcoins has already bought them. I believe there are very few people left who have fiat on Gox that they sold quite higher and are hoping for it to still go lower to buy in.
What the whale is doing is giving the appearance that the coins really are this cheap on Gox while in reality they are actually not because there is almost noone left to buy them. There are however HODLERS and gullible speculators who are panicing and are induced into selling their coins thinking the price will go even lower. The lower the price goes the bigger the chance that these people will finally sell their coins.

What is actually going on as mentioned many times before is that the whale is selling coins to his own walls and hoping weak hands will panic and sell theirs aswell. He has done it a few times already in the last few days. It started with selling pressure of 20-50 btc batches being sold every 7-10min. This went on for ~24-36h nonstop and then he increased it to 100-300 btc bathes sold every 3-4min because at one point there were people who had fiat on Gox who wanted to buy cheap bitcoins and were creating buying pressure. So the whale compensated and made the situation look even more bleak.

I thought 300 would be the bottom since Gox is probably close to fixing the withdrawals and the whale probably milked people enough these last few days but actually what we are seeing is that the whale is interested in making money and has zero morals to go with it. He is going to milk this community till the very last moment before withdrawals to get as much as possible regardless of the damage to other people or to bitcoin.

If the whale can squeeze in another cycle of this constant selling pressure followed by his walls trying to push the price up again then he will do it. It will probably not happen since a) MtGox will probably fix the withdrawal situation on monday and b) when the banks start working on monday there will be new fiat flying in to buy those cheap coins.

This is a nice theory, but it only works if the whale can buy more cheap coins than he sells into walls that are not his own.  I question whether it is likely that the whale would come out ahead; however, it may explain what we are seeing.

[wbaw]

I think it's robot wars. There was a huge buy at 1:59am, it spiked the price up to 540, i think that triggered some mad robot, or possibly several to sell all their coins.

Must be somebody not in control of a badly written robot doing automatic trades.

I think everybody has already bought all the cheap gox btc so there are not many new buyers to stop it, plus maybe not much new money entering at the weekend.

[TaaviK]

This is a nice theory, but it only works if the whale can buy more cheap coins than he sells into walls that are not his own.  I question whether it is likely that the whale would come out ahead; however, it may explain what we are seeing.

The large majority of the people who speculate are net losers (that's why we have the HODL mantra, since it work so much better for the avg joe than trading).
The more of these cycles of boom and bust on mtGox (since feb 13. - $550 to $300 to $500 to 310 to $540 to $270 to ...) to more money flows from these people to the professional sharks. These people do this for a living. They are very smart and know just the right buttons to push to make the weak tremble and spill because they have been doing it for a long time. And they most probably are colluding aswell.

[Peter R]

This is a nice theory, but it only works if the whale can buy more cheap coins than he sells into walls that are not his own.  I question whether it is likely that the whale would come out ahead; however, it may explain what we are seeing.

The large majority of the people who speculate are net losers (that's why we have the HODL mantra, since it work so much better for the avg joe than trading).
The more of these cycles of boom and bust on mtGox (since feb 13. - $550 to $300 to $500 to 310 to $540 to $270 to ...) to more money flows from these people to the professional sharks. These people do this for a living. They are very smart and know just the right buttons to push to make the weak tremble and spill because they have been doing it for a long time. And they most probably are colluding aswell.

I do see your point, and I'm not saying it's impossible; in fact, it would explain a lot.  But it's just that anyone with fiat at Gox can purchase these cheap coins right now--which means that some of the alleged whale-manipulator's coins are being scooped for a great price by normal traders.  I just find it hard to believe that more people would panic and sell coins for too cheaply, than those that would use this as an opportunity to scoop up cheap coins.  

Anyone about to panic at Gox can check the price at BitStamp

[wbaw]

It's got to be a mad robot, or mark getting really desperate to balance the books somehow (but i can't see that, he could just sell on other exchanges), nobody is really selling btc at $270. I'd loan money to buy if anybody wants to sell me some btc for that, but i don't think i'll get many offers.

Nobody is panicking & the off exchange prices are going up for goxbtc.

[marvinrouge]

With all transfers blocked it the good time for manipulating the price.
For ex. creating an artificial new low.
Anyway everyone are waiting for the bottom to buy, maybe the best way to be sure to catch the bottom is to create it... Even if he loose money today he's sure the market will bounce once the withdrawal restored...

[wbaw]

I think it's somebody with a bot that is manipulating another out of control bot to take all it's coins cheap & not enough people can get money in to buy btc to stop it, they're all already all in goxbtc.

It seemed to be a timed & calculated huge buy that caused a big spike in price that triggered an automatic selloff by messing with the moving averages. It's just some rich but very primitive trading bot that got tricked, or lots of primitive trading bots got tricked.

The gox price wont recover until some fiat deposits are allowed in or fiat withdrawals cancelled.

Somebody is going to be really annoyed when they see what their trading bot did while they weren't looking & somebody is going to be really happy with all the cheap coins they got.

It hasn't had any effect on any other exchanges, yet. Wonder what will happen when gox allow btc withdrawals.

Unless the seller knows some kind of inside information they just lost big.

[Cluster2k]

It looks like someone is betting MtGox is more likely to return cash than bitcoins.  Good luck, as MtGox has had trouble returning cash over the past 7 months. 

Betting on getting bitcoins out could be a little risky.  We don't know how many, if any, bitcoins have been stolen from MtGox.  The exchange was a prime target for the forged transaction bug and we do know MtGox had trouble with the bug for many weeks.  SR 2.0 claims their entire stash of bitcoins was stolen by a handful of people using automated refunds. 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2014/02/13/silk-road-2-0-hacked-using-bitcoin-bug-all-its-funds-stolen/

At the moment there are lots of claims and counter claims about what can be done using the bug. 

[indiemax]

My guess is that people with BTC on Mt. Gox now believe that they are more likely to be able to withdraw dollars than BTC. I think that the belief is that some amount of BTC is missing and the dollars can be audited and recovered if Mt. Gox closes, and the BTC can't. I don't know if any of that is true. It is just an educated guess.

Exactly this  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[600watt]

someone has found a way, always had, or is just been granted to move fiat out of gox.

this person knows that gox is going belly up. so this is a "legal" way to squeeze out all the left cash on gox.


monday they say: uuups, it´s all gone, sry    


 

[oetzi]

Mtgox has unlimited credit in both dollars and bitcoins (they can assign to themselves as many as they whish), and this can drive any ascent or descent prices.
Now they are on the edge of bankrupcy, so they are interested in cutting the capitalization of the exchange, in order to have the least number of dollars and bitcoins to refund.
Enough to orchestrate any actions of pumping or dumping of unlimited size in such a way that, at the end, the best trader and the largest owner of USD and BTC, is Mtgox itself.

[proudhon]

My guess is that people with BTC on Mt. Gox now believe that they are more likely to be able to withdraw dollars than BTC. I think that the belief is that some amount of BTC is missing and the dollars can be audited and recovered if Mt. Gox closes, and the BTC can't. I don't know if any of that is true. It is just an educated guess.

Exactly this  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

My guess is a combination of what odolvlobo described and perhaps another attempt at a June 2011 style hackcrash.  But, who knows at this point.  The nice thing, for those without anything on MtGox (sorry guys), is that MtGox is trading in GoxUSD and GoxBTC, and those are just different things than USD and BTC.

[Cyberlight]

[GreenDude]

Someone selling to himself to make it look downtrend so noobs sell to him at this ridiculous prices.

[600watt]

Mtgox has unlimited credit in both dollars and bitcoins (they can assign to themselves as many as they whish), and this can drive any ascent or descent prices.
Now they are on the edge of bankrupcy, so they are interested in cutting the capitalization of the exchange, in order to have the least number of dollars and bitcoins to refund.
Enough to orchestrate any actions of pumping or dumping of unlimited size in such a way that, at the end, the best trader and the largest owner of USD and BTC, is Mtgox itself.

this.

[marvinrouge]

I think it's robot wars. There was a huge buy at 1:59am, it spiked the price up to 540, i think that triggered some mad robot, or possibly several to sell all their coins.

Must be somebody not in control of a badly written robot doing automatic trades.

I think everybody has already bought all the cheap gox btc so there are not many new buyers to stop it, plus maybe not much new money entering at the weekend.

It could be.
I have a homemade bot which after excellents result this month gave me yesterday two advices :
Buy @504  
Sell @285  

Luckily for me it was only simulated  

[T.Stuart]

I think it's Satoshi.

He's had enough of Gox tarnishing the reputation of Bitcoin and he's going to grind it into the dirt.

[wbaw]

Another possible option is somebody had a huge bet based on the goxbtc price at some derivative market & gained more from shorting than they lost tanking the price.

[rpietila]

Another possible option is somebody had a huge bet based on the goxbtc price at some derivative market & gained more from shorting than they lost tanking the price.

Now we are talking..

[T.Stuart]

Another possible option is somebody had a huge bet based on the goxbtc price at some derivative market & gained more from shorting than they lost tanking the price.

Now we are talking..

Perhaps they also wanted to buy cheap coins after their bet went well.

Bloody whales.

[Bitobsessed]

Mtgox has unlimited credit in both dollars and bitcoins (they can assign to themselves as many as they whish), and this can drive any ascent or descent prices.
Now they are on the edge of bankrupcy, so they are interested in cutting the capitalization of the exchange, in order to have the least number of dollars and bitcoins to refund.
Enough to orchestrate any actions of pumping or dumping of unlimited size in such a way that, at the end, the best trader and the largest owner of USD and BTC, is Mtgox itself.

this.

And to keep some people from selling they have manipulated the price after Mark sold his...

[martins]

easily done by a mt.gox operator who has control over BTC's of theyr user, sell @BTC-e and get the money to rebuy @MT.gox... dont need a brilliant brain to do this just POWER!

[fluidjax]

Perhaps these moves are all to reduce liability once (if) declared insolvent, so the BTC price redistributed to holders will be cents on the dollar value of the last traded price when the exchange is declared closed.
So they sell these worthless BTC to everyone and stash the cash,
Getting as much $ as possible in effectively the Gox Bank account and reducing the price of BTC close to 0 is the best strategy for them.

[fallinglantern]

What would you do if you had 200 BTC stuck on GOX?

Fly to Tokyo from London and protest Mark's coffee-like desserts?

[MatTheCat]

presumably because Gox has temporarily halted BTC withdrawals, a whole bunch of paranoids are selling their coins so they can withdraw the fiat instead. A panic sell off of BTC = massive price drop on Gox. I don't think there's anything more sinister than that going on - unless you can prove it?

Q) Weren't you the fkn clown who was telling everyone that Gox was just fine and that people shouldn't panic back when Gox was trading in high $500s?

A) Yes, you were! Don't say you weren't because your post history says that you were.


I say Karpeles is using an unlimited supply of Goxcoin which of course passes seamlessly for Bitcoin (on the MTGox exchange at least), in order to manipulate the price down as he takes real ledger authenticated Bitcoin off the table. Unbelievably, new money is piling into Gox and buying up Goxcoin thus pushing up the price.....all the better for Karpeles!

After MtGox goes under and Karpeles 'proves' that it did so as a result of cyber-theft from external parties, I say Karpeles will flee Japan and buy up a Vietnamese orphanage next to a doughnut factory, where he will happily live out the rest of his wretched creepy existence.  

I think it's Satoshi.

He's had enough of Gox tarnishing the reputation of Bitcoin and he's going to grind it into the dirt.

"Oh save us, mightiest of Bitcoin whales!"

Another possible option is somebody had a huge bet based on the goxbtc price at some derivative market & gained more from shorting than they lost tanking the price.

Shrewd thinking. But who would be dumb enough to take the opposite end of such a contract when such an unfavourable outcome could be so easily manipulated by the right/wrong sort of people?

[Puppet]

Everyone who had fiat on Gox and was tempted to buy bitcoins has already bought them.

Are euro/dollar deposits not working then?  At $250, am I the only one who thinks this is a good bet?

Im not exactly a fan of Gox, but I honestly cant imagine them being bankrupt or even insolvent. Gox charges like 0.5% on average, correct? And have been collecting this for over 4 years now. I mean, just today of all days, gox earned around 0.5% * 81K BTC= 405 BTC in fees. Thats $250K worth of coins on other exchanges. Over the past four years that on the order of half a million bitcoins in trading fees. Even if they kept the vast majority of their profit in BTC (which is unlikely), do we really think they are stupid enough to keep more than a trivial amount of that in a hot wallet that someone could steal?

[fluidjax]

Everyone who had fiat on Gox and was tempted to buy bitcoins has already bought them.

Are euro/dollar deposits not working then?  At $250, am I the only one who thinks this is a good bet?

Im not exactly a fan of Gox, but I honestly cant imagine them being bankrupt or even insolvent. Gox charges like 0.5% on average, correct? And have been collecting this for over 4 years now. I mean, just today of all days, gox earned around 0.5% * 81K BTC= 405 BTC in fees. Thats $250K worth of coins on other exchanges. Over the past four years that on the order of half a million bitcoins in trading fees. Even if they kept the vast majority of their profit in BTC (which is unlikely), do we really think they are stupid enough to keep more than a trivial amount of that in a hot wallet that someone could steal?

Company profit can simply be withdrawn as a dividend by the shareholders. Gox may be sitting on zero or negative money.

[Puppet]

Company profit can simply be withdrawn as a dividend by the shareholders. Gox may be sitting on zero or negative money.

Doesnt really matter. Even if gox were close to insolvency somehow, say its hot wallet got raided and it would have no reserves beyond that, which seems utterly unbelievable, even then its (by now, stinking rich) shareholders would be bonkers not to supply it with fresh dollars/coins. $250K revenue a day to run a few servers and pay what, less than 10 staff? Only a complete idiot would let that go bankrupt.

[alfabitcoin]

Make that average 1%. When sell occur buy happen also. So 2 x 0.5%.

[molecular]

My guess is that people with BTC on Mt. Gox now believe that they are more likely to be able to withdraw dollars than BTC. I think that the belief is that some amount of BTC is missing and the dollars can be audited and recovered if Mt. Gox closes, and the BTC can't. I don't know if any of that is true. It is just an educated guess.

Exactly this  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

My guess is a combination of what odolvlobo described and perhaps another attempt at a June 2011 style hackcrash.  But, who knows at this point.  The nice thing, for those without anything on MtGox (sorry guys), is that MtGox is trading in GoxUSD and GoxBTC, and those are just different things than USD and BTC.

While this is true from a rational perspective, gox is still pulling the other markets because (yet again rational) players anticipate the induced "irrational" selling.

The question now is: when to go long?

• when gox re-enables withdrawals (or preferrably shortly before that)
• when resulting arbitrage has played out and pulled other markets down
• now

[T.Stuart]

The question now is: when to go long?

• when gox re-enables withdrawals (or preferrably shortly before that)
• when resulting arbitrage has played out and pulled other markets down
• now

Tomorrow morning, 9 am. 

[molecular]

Everyone who had fiat on Gox and was tempted to buy bitcoins has already bought them.

Are euro/dollar deposits not working then?  At $250, am I the only one who thinks this is a good bet?

Im not exactly a fan of Gox, but I honestly cant imagine them being bankrupt or even insolvent.

I'm torn here myself. Left gox April or so last year. Greed is getting the best of me, though and I'm close to wiring EUR.

The market tells us it's a bad bet, though. Risk is extreme in any case.

[molecular]

The question now is: when to go long?

• when gox re-enables withdrawals (or preferrably shortly before that)
• when resulting arbitrage has played out and pulled other markets down
• now

Tomorrow morning, 9 am. 

Information incomplete. Timezone missing.

[T.Stuart]

The question now is: when to go long?

• when gox re-enables withdrawals (or preferrably shortly before that)
• when resulting arbitrage has played out and pulled other markets down
• now

Tomorrow morning, 9 am. 

Information incomplete. Timezone missing.

Intentional!

[efarah2549]

I voted manipulator. Before the dumps there was a spike from 380$ to 540$, probably
the manipulator bought his own coins, and then sold them to create downward momentum.
MtGox should have stopped the trading after seeing this unnatural market movement,
and then resume trading only after withdrawals would resume.

MT Gox should of done so much awhile ago but realistically they are not like legitimate companies.  A proper business looking to be profitable in the future and retain customers would not act with so much disregard.  Mt Gox has put in little to no effort to solve this problem or calm the community so I have little hope in them ever doing anything.  In my mind gox will go to 0 and probably the rest of the community is dumb enough to follow meaning I've lost all my money because it seems I was the only one stupid enough to believe in bitcoin

[Mota]

I voted manipulator. Before the dumps there was a spike from 380$ to 540$, probably
the manipulator bought his own coins, and then sold them to create downward momentum.
MtGox should have stopped the trading after seeing this unnatural market movement,
and then resume trading only after withdrawals would resume.

MT Gox should of done so much awhile ago but realistically they are not like legitimate companies.  A proper business looking to be profitable in the future and retain customers would not act with so much disregard.  Mt Gox has put in little to no effort to solve this problem or calm the community so I have little hope in them ever doing anything.  In my mind gox will go to 0 and probably the rest of the community is dumb enough to follow meaning I've lost all my money because it seems I was the only one stupid enough to believe in bitcoin

*should have
and why should they have acted differently? they ARE an exchange, so if they let people exchange they do exactly as they should. If people panicsell after an announcement that btc withdrawal has stopped it is not their problem. Or do you see any normal exchange halt trading/put a notice out/try to calm people because a particular stock or some mayor index seems to crash to the bottom?

[Tzupy]

efarah, your post is a good contrarian indicator.
Just 2 weeks ago there were over 30 million $ on the bid sum. Now it's below 5 million, but not much has left MtGox.
After the panic subsides, most of that fiat will be back, buying cheap bitcoins.

[N12]

efarah, your post is a good contrarian indicator.
Just 2 weeks ago there were over 30 million $ on the bid sum. Now it's below 5 million, but not much has left MtGox.
After the panic subsides, most of that fiat will be back, buying cheap bitcoins.

Indeed. Remember that USD cannot flee the exchange …  Gee, I wonder what will happen should BTC withdrawals come back.

[gambitx]

HELP!

[molecular]

HELP!

what can we do for you?

[Solarstorm75]

Dump selling on Gox has stopped now. Expecting a spectacular rise.

[johnyj]

It might because the large chinese rally last year was caused by some shadow banking actors moving their CNY reserve to USD through bitcoin, and now it is the time they convert their coins back to USD at MTGOX. They caused price to rise when they bought large amount of coins and now they cause the price to fall

[Peter R]

It might because the large chinese rally last year was caused by some shadow banking actors moving their CNY reserve to USD through bitcoin, and now it is the time they convert their coins back to USD at MTGOX. They caused price to rise when they bought large amount of coins and now they cause the price to fall

Interesting theory.  But a couple things don't fit for me: these actors would know ahead of time that this incessant selling would drive down the price on the exchange.  So, you'd expect that they would have transferred coins to all major exchanges so that they could get a better price, no?  And would they have waited until now to start dumping?

[Solarstorm75]

mission accomplished 

[derpinheimer]

I voted manipulator. Before the dumps there was a spike from 380$ to 540$, probably
the manipulator bought his own coins, and then sold them to create downward momentum.
MtGox should have stopped the trading after seeing this unnatural market movement,
and then resume trading only after withdrawals would resume.

lolwut.
Im sure all of the asks and independent buys up to 540 were the same guy, and all his coins.

If he wanted downward momentum, he would have just sold them.

[Beta-coiner1]

I think it is all about relevance at this point of Gox to BTC.A more relevant exchange needs to take over.

[wbaw]

Another possible option is somebody had a huge bet based on the goxbtc price at some derivative market & gained more from shorting than they lost tanking the price.

Shrewd thinking. But who would be dumb enough to take the opposite end of such a contract when such an unfavourable outcome could be so easily manipulated by the right/wrong sort of people?

Most people expected the Gox price to go up without realising how easily manipulated it was. Nobody could get new fiat in to buy over the weekend & most people were probably all in on goxbtc so couldn't buy any more on the exchange.

I still think mad robots though, otherwise why the big buy at the start? Maybe the shorter set the robots off too?

Maybe it was pure accident with quite a lot of badly programmed robots that reacted badly to the big buy & caused some feedback loop with nobody able to buy & stop it.

[wbaw]

efarah, your post is a good contrarian indicator.
Just 2 weeks ago there were over 30 million $ on the bid sum. Now it's below 5 million, but not much has left MtGox.
After the panic subsides, most of that fiat will be back, buying cheap bitcoins.

Indeed. Remember that USD cannot flee the exchange …  Gee, I wonder what will happen should BTC withdrawals come back.

It can go out as EUR or JPY.

[stylin]

The only explanation that makes sense: the Gox sellers are accounts which were used to fraudulently withdraw BTC using malleability attacks, and they know those balances will be invalid once Gox gets its shit together. So may as well maximize the panic to potentially buy cheap coins on other exchanges

[N12]

efarah, your post is a good contrarian indicator.
Just 2 weeks ago there were over 30 million $ on the bid sum. Now it's below 5 million, but not much has left MtGox.
After the panic subsides, most of that fiat will be back, buying cheap bitcoins.

Indeed. Remember that USD cannot flee the exchange …  Gee, I wonder what will happen should BTC withdrawals come back.

It can go out as EUR or JPY.

Both are delayed by 4-5 weeks and have extreme constraints in daily output for the whole exchange. For SEPA, it is 100k EUR. For JPY it is 100 million yen, but according to Mark Karpeles, there is an additional bottleneck because JPY have to be converted. Otherwise there likely wouldn't be this JPY delay in the first place.

You will never empty the exchange with the current state of withdrawal methods in less than say a year.

[Peter R]

The only explanation that makes sense: the Gox sellers are accounts which were used to fraudulently withdraw BTC using malleability attacks, and they know those balances will be invalid once Gox gets its shit together. So may as well maximize the panic to potentially buy cheap coins on other exchanges

Hmm, I never thought about this possibility, but it makes sense.  Nice work!

[derpinheimer]

You guys are so full of it. Why is it a conspiracy? Its simply people panicking. If it were manipulated, guess what would happen to all of those Gox asks? They'd be gone. All the way to $500.

[wbaw]

Not many people are panicking though, it's not really fallen that much on other exchanges, surely a widespread panic would be more widespread? Goxbtc are trading higher on bitcoinbuilder than on gox.

It is looking very suspicious now though, we've had Monday in Japan, some money should have gone in, out of control bots should have run out of funds or been stopped, I can't think of many excuses why it hasn't recovered on gox. Will have to see what they say & do.

[derpinheimer]

Not many people are panicking though, it's not really fallen that much on other exchanges, surely a widespread panic would be more widespread? Goxbtc are trading higher on bitcoinbuilder than on gox.

It is looking very suspicious now though, we've had Monday in Japan, some money should have gone in, out of control bots should have run out of funds or been stopped, I can't think of many excuses why it hasn't recovered on gox. Will have to see what they say & do.

Why on earth would you expect a Gox-only problem to cause panic elsewhere...? A disconnect of this scale is clearly impossible without one exchange having major issues, being (mostly) ignored by the others.


It hasnt recovered because... wait for it...





NO ONE IS BUYING.


 

Whu'dha thunk it?


These mythical bots and manipulators have stopped dumping. And the price hasnt recovered. Its almost like its the agreed upon price @ gox.

Haha, who am I kidding. Its clearly an extremely wealthy manipulator selling all his BTC well below market value. He's gon' get so rich doing that.

[wbaw]

Not many people are panicking though, it's not really fallen that much on other exchanges, surely a widespread panic would be more widespread? Goxbtc are trading higher on bitcoinbuilder than on gox.

It is looking very suspicious now though, we've had Monday in Japan, some money should have gone in, out of control bots should have run out of funds or been stopped, I can't think of many excuses why it hasn't recovered on gox. Will have to see what they say & do.

Why on earth would you expect a Gox-only problem to cause panic elsewhere...? A disconnect of this scale is clearly impossible without one exchange having major issues, being (mostly) ignored by the others.


It hasnt recovered because... wait for it...





NO ONE IS BUYING.


 

Whu'dha thunk it?


These mythical bots and manipulators have stopped dumping. And the price hasnt recovered. Its almost like its the agreed upon price @ gox.

Haha, who am I kidding. Its clearly an extremely wealthy manipulator selling all his BTC well below market value. He's gon' get so rich doing that.

People are buying goxbtc off exchange & they're paying more than on gox. It's been all day Monday in Japan, have they let any deposits in yet? Where's the press release?

[derpinheimer]

I dont follow. What is a  "Goxbtc"?

And if withdrawals dont work, how could anyone buy them?

And what deposits? Deposits to gox work. Withdrawals dont.

The press release wont come or it will say they are delaying withdrawals, 99% chance of that at least.

[hostmaster]

VOTED for. 3th option.

[wbaw]

I dont follow. What is a  "Goxbtc"?

And if withdrawals dont work, how could anyone buy them?

And what deposits? Deposits to gox work. Withdrawals dont.

The press release wont come or it will say they are delaying withdrawals, 99% chance of that at least.

A goxbtc is a btc that is trapped in mt.gox, one that they aren't letting people withdraw from mt.gox. Internal btc transfers still work between users on mt.gox, so people are selling them off the exchange & getting better prices than they would selling on mtgox. There's even a website set up to automate it, https://bitcoinbuilder.com/ So we have new currency pairs to trade now, since they stopped withdrawals, goxbtc has disjointed from btc. there's goxbtc/usd, btc/usd & goxbtc/btc

[derpinheimer]

a goxbtc is a btc that is trapped in mt.gox, one that they aren't letting people withdraw from mt.gox. Internal btc transfers still work between users on mt.gox, so people are selling them off the exchange & getting better prices. There's even a website set up to automate it, https://bitcoinbuilder.com/

How does it work exactly? I mean it sounds nuts. Why would anyone pay .7BTC for a goxBTC?

I can buy a GoxBTC for .5BTC.

[wbaw]

a goxbtc is a btc that is trapped in mt.gox, one that they aren't letting people withdraw from mt.gox. Internal btc transfers still work between users on mt.gox, so people are selling them off the exchange & getting better prices. There's even a website set up to automate it, https://bitcoinbuilder.com/

How does it work exactly? I mean it sounds nuts. Why would anyone pay .7BTC for a goxBTC?

I can buy a GoxBTC for .5BTC.

Because deposits take some time to get in, so they can't buy the cheap btc on gox directly, it's the only way to buy in. You're right though, you can buy elsewhere & possibly get better prices.

[derpinheimer]

a goxbtc is a btc that is trapped in mt.gox, one that they aren't letting people withdraw from mt.gox. Internal btc transfers still work between users on mt.gox, so people are selling them off the exchange & getting better prices. There's even a website set up to automate it, https://bitcoinbuilder.com/

How does it work exactly? I mean it sounds nuts. Why would anyone pay .7BTC for a goxBTC?

I can buy a GoxBTC for .5BTC.

Because deposits take some time to get in, so they can't buy the cheap btc on gox directly, it's the only way to buy in. You're right though, you can buy elsewhere & possibly get better prices.

Interesting. If I trusted that site I'd definitely do it lol. (I have GoxBTC )

[Puppet]

Interesting. If I trusted that site I'd definitely do it lol. (I have GoxBTC )

How much would you want for your goxbtc? I might buy some from you for the right price, and we can use some third party escrow.

[smoothie]

Everybody should be an option in the poll.

[wbaw]

I think it's Mark. Gox is so dead that he has nothing to lose now if he takes the money & runs. Who else is selling at under $350?