Black Arrow is most likely a scam operation

[goozman96]

So are you saying that the people at Verisilicon - who personally confirmed tapeout to me directly - are in on this scam?
-____-

[ikevin8me]

So are you saying that the people at Verisilicon - who personally confirmed tapeout to me directly - are in on this scam?
-____-

Glad that you appeared. Since "jimmothy" mentioned someone emailed Verisilicon, I've been searching for this piece of evidence.

Could you please show us (again, if you had already done so, sorry) the details of the correspondence with Verisilicon? I'd like to examine it (in details) in a fair manner.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

DZ in all reality PG is pointing out stuff that many people think. Maybe they don't want to ruffle feathers or cause a rift etc. He/She has no problem getting in your face and throwing out a bunch of stuff and sees what stick. I don't know you, I don't know them, some / much / All / none of this could be true/false. But as an investor in products piece of mind knowing everything is legit helps. There comes a point in time where it just hit that spot where it could be just a interesting coincidence ya know?

Look at the Group buy forums today.. its freaking SAD.. SCAM after SCAMMER after SCUMBAG Scammer for a lack of a better term .. FUCKING people out of thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars on these Avalon 2 clones. Then.. they just create OR BUY another forum account and start a new con.

And when will the he/she when referring to me going to end? (......dog, you're going to love this): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFHbXSnNkXU#t=4m52s

(FULL) Breast Cancer Foundation Plea to Accept Bitcoin Donations: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FFe_42TpiY

And why: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfTOVdZvxiU

[goozman96]

So are you saying that the people at Verisilicon - who personally confirmed tapeout to me directly - are in on this scam?
-____-

Glad that you appeared. Since "jimmothy" mentioned someone emailed Verisilicon, I've been searching for this piece of evidence.

Could you please show us (again, if you had already done so, sorry) the details of the correspondence with Verisilicon? I'd like to examine it (in details) in a fair manner.

Start here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=294197.msg5123598#msg5123598

and keep reading til I mentioned that it's been put to rest.

[goozman96]

The only way left that it could be a scam would be if they make the miners and keep them for themselves instead of shipping them. In which case, we'll burn bobsag3 at the stake for not getting us our miners lol.

And that's not very likely considering it would be more profitable to have a good reputation and sell more miners in the future rather than invest all this time and energy into such an elaborate "scam".

[jimmothy]

The arguments you are making against BA are embarrasing if anything at all.

Why not wait 4 days and see if tapeout has begun? (Confirmed by verisilicon)

Why attempt to create FUD?

Seriously Its obvious you are putting lots of effort trying to prove its a scam but your arguments are incredibly weak. BA cannot simply disappear because they have a company bank account/contracts with 3rd parties/physical location some have visited.

Who honestly believes being featured in magazines/crappy blogs has anything to do with the legitimacy of a company. Take a look at hashfast and please report back.

So are you saying that the people at Verisilicon - who personally confirmed tapeout to me directly - are in on this scam?
-____-

I think he is. That or you are in on the scam (maybe I am as well?)

[jimmothy]

The only way left that it could be a scam would be if they make the miners and keep them for themselves instead of shipping them. In which case, we'll burn bobsag3 at the stake for not getting us our miners lol.

And that's not very likely considering it would be more profitable to have a good reputation and sell more miners in the future rather than invest all this time and energy into such an elaborate "scam".

Why go through the effort to make your own chips? With nre costs at a few million dollars it would make mote sense to instead go with asicminer chips or something if it was a scam.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

So are you saying that the people at Verisilicon - who personally confirmed tapeout to me directly - are in on this scam?
-____-

Glad that you appeared. Since "jimmothy" mentioned someone emailed Verisilicon, I've been searching for this piece of evidence.

Could you please show us (again, if you had already done so, sorry) the details of the correspondence with Verisilicon? I'd like to examine it (in details) in a fair manner.

Start here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=294197.msg5123598#msg5123598

and keep reading til I mentioned that it's been put to rest.

I no longer think so. You see, Black Arrow and Verisilicon are partners in this venture. Verisilicon is also the co-designing for Bitmine's chip, along with Synapse and Innosilicon. Ergo, it's to their best interest to...

Don't you find it amazing that it took three IT entities to develop Bitmine's chip, but Virisilicon was able to accomplish basically the same task on their own for Black Arrow's Minion? It wouldn't surprise me to see Virisilicon consume the ASIC mining chip market with fireballs from their eyes, and bolts of lightning from their arse after accomplishing that feat.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

BA cannot simply disappear because they have a company bank account/contracts with 3rd parties/physical location some have visited.

I stand corrected! I forgot all about Hookah Man visiting the Chinese plant (no pun intended).

[jimmothy]

BA cannot simply disappear because they have a company bank account/contracts with 3rd parties/physical location some have visited.

I stand corrected! I forgot all about Hookah Man visiting the Chinese plant (no pun intended).

Do you really think hookah man can just disappear? I literally just bought a graphics card shipped via ups so I think he would definitely be leaving a paper trail behind. I think its nearly impossible they commit multimillion dollar fraud while accepting bank transfers.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

BA cannot simply disappear because they have a company bank account/contracts with 3rd parties/physical location some have visited.

I stand corrected! I forgot all about Hookah Man visiting the Chinese plant (no pun intended).

Do you really think hookah man can just disappear? I literally just bought a graphics card shipped via ups so I think he would definitely be leaving a paper trail behind. I think its nearly impossible they commit multimillion dollar fraud while accepting bank transfers.

I have to admit, you got me on that one, for I honestly can't think off the top of head of a single entity that has ever committed fraud when they, in fact, accepted funds via a bank transfer. Has anybody here heard of such happening, otherwise I may have to concede my position? I know it's a long shot, but please try. Perhaps, together, we could hunt at least one down via Google. Or will we be wasting our time?

[sticky]

I bet someone starts posting in this thread with big bold text in bright colors.

this. 

[Phinnaeus Gage]

PG : How does DZ and Thomas fit into all of this? Since they seem to be the 3 amigos.

Name:   blackarrow
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Last Active:   February 17, 2014, 09:45:55 PM

Question: Shouldn't the registration dates of those championing Black Arrow be more seasoned than those shown above, oppose to being over three months and beyond their junior?

[ikevin8me]

goozman96, I've read the matter regarding the correspondence with VeriSilicon. It is not fully convincing.

First, the lady in the US office said they would never release any information regarding their contract with their clients. Then, why did the China-counterpart released the information?

Secondly, let's assume that all the people from VeriSilicon (Robert, Zheng, etc.) are real, they only revealed to you there is indeed a client called Black Arrow. They did not reveal the size of the contract. If Black Arrow is indeed pulling off a massive scam, they can do a real contract with a reputable company (ie. VeriSilicon) and order/purchase a small amount.

[ikevin8me]

I think its nearly impossible they commit multimillion dollar fraud while accepting bank transfers.

Repeat (posted earlier in the beginning):
Black Arrow Limited is a real company incorporated in Hong Kong. A search on Google using the terms "hong kong shelf company with bank account” return results of many offshore incorporation services firms offering such services. These are pre-registered firms with pre-opened bank accounts. Sure, most would require notarized documents from clients in order to purchase them. However, there is a possibility that there could be a very few who would just sell it without asking for any ID. In other words, once they take control of the company and its bank account, they can freely withdraw money from ATMs. Therefore, by offering wire transfer as a payment, ie. proof of having a legitimate bank account, actually means nothing in terms of the legitimacy of the business.

Additional explanation:
The fraudsters can purchase a Hong Kong shelf company with a pre-opened bank account under a nominee director assigned by the incorporating agent. At this moment, all ATM cards, login credentials are passed to the fraudsters. Once they purchase of the company is completed, the can fully own and operate the bank account, while still possibly still be in the name of the nominee director. Then, the money can be withdrawn using ATM cards or can be laundered. It can be millions and as long as the bank think it is legally obtained, it won't stop them.

I'm not saying that Black Arrow is absolutely a scam. I'm saying that they can be a scam. They are simply not transparent enough in their business operations.

[ikevin8me]

OK. Let's 4 more days for their tapeout and see what new evidence they can supplement to convince us.

[jimmothy]

goozman96, I've read the matter regarding the correspondence with VeriSilicon. It is not fully convincing.

First, the lady in the US office said they would never release any information regarding their contract with their clients. Then, why did the China-counterpart released the information?

Secondly, let's assume that all the people from VeriSilicon (Robert, Zheng, etc.) are real, they only revealed to you there is indeed a client called Black Arrow. They did not reveal the size of the contract. If Black Arrow is indeed pulling off a massive scam, they can do a real contract with a reputable company (ie. VeriSilicon) and order/purchase a small amount.

You simply don't understand how this works. You cannot "order a small amount". You pay millions of dollars to tapeout a chip and regardless if you make 1 chip or 100000. NRE is like 90% the total cost.

And to answer your first question it is probably because he tried contacting an american receptionist instead contacting someone from the chinese department. You can email them if you don't believe goozman.

[goozman96]

Or, hell, go visit their office since they offered.

[kan-th]

I order X1 from Blackarrow ,but get wire transfer Bank from other company .The Bank's Account is name Destino Limited in UK not same Blackarrow (HSBC from Hongkong) .The support said  HSBC Bank have a problem to use Destino around 2-3 weeks.
He gave unreliable. I withhold my order from him Until the first batch to ship.

[raskul]

I order X1 from Blackarrow ,but get wire transfer Bank from other company .The Bank's Account is name Destino Limited in UK not same Blackarrow (HSBC from Hongkong) .The support said  HSBC Bank have a problem to use Destino around 2-3 weeks.
He gave unreliable. I withhold my order from him Until the first batch to ship.

although HSBC are a bunch of c**ts, that's worrying;

http://companycheck.co.uk/company/04512485