I think it's time for me to put a stop to this. This is the last thing I'm going to write on the topic of surface mail, because at some point it is flogging a dead horse. We no longer offer surface mail as a shipping option, so it no longer presents a problem.
Zedicus, you once said that the reason you were "busting my balls" was because I give a shit. But it's getting increasingly more difficult to "give a shit" when I have been insulted, demeaned, called a scammer and a thief, told I "treat customers like shit", and finally likened to RealSolid and to running a company like Enron. It makes me feel like all the energy and effort I'm putting in trying to resolve things for existing customers is worthless - for every angry forum post there are another 10 angry customers contacting us through the support system.
I have tried to be serious and defend myself and my company. I have tried to be light-hearted and get some guy on Fiverr to record a funny video to make people smile despite their frustration. I have upgraded people's shipping methods at our expense where it was possible and feasible. It seems like no matter what I do it is simply not good enough.
I could have made a dash with everyone's money, I could have launched under a pseudonym, scammed away, and then disappeared. But I'm not going anywhere. That's not the sort of person I am, for better or worse. That does not mean that I will allow everyone to constantly spew vitriol and attack me or attack OpenRigs - there is a point where it has to stop. I want to make it extremely clear that at this stage we are seriously considering liquidating the company and shipping out the last couple of orders.
To that end, I'm going to be as brutal, as transparent, and as honest as possible. I don't want to debate this, I don't want to have each point picked apart, and I don't want to go back and forth on minutiae over and over and over again. You don't have to like what I'm saying, you don't have to agree, you don't have to even care about any of it. If there are going to be a bunch of unhelpful abusive replies I am going to delete them and lock the topic with this as the last post, so if there is something you want to rant about or a specific point you want to discuss I implore you to email me (
ric@openrigs.com) or PM me or give me your number and I'll call you.
I would ask that you read this through in its entirety. I know that there are some things that I will say that you may disagree with, that may even anger you, and that is not my intention. I am just being honest and transparent, quite possibly as a prelude to shutting the entire company down.
What happened? Why is everyone so angry?Let's recap. When we launched we had an option called "Surface Mail". Having sent surface mail parcels to my in-laws in Germany before, we figured that the "2-3 months" shipping timeline the post office gives (
http://postoffice.co.za/questions/postofficequestions.html) was just to have a bit of a buffer, and that practically speaking it would arrive in the 4-6 weeks we expect. We made the decision to list the expected transit time for surface mail as "4-6 weeks or longer" and make a note that the maximum is 13 weeks.
We also had something new to deal with: the customs process. When sending a parcel in our personal capacity (or even as a business) you just get the courier to collect it or you take it to the post office, and off it goes. They normally need a commercial invoice and a customs declaration of some kind, but there's nothing else involved. Now when you have a business whose primary role is exporting, things change. You have to apply to be an exporter. Depending on what you're exporting and how long you've been in business, customs may dictate that you comply with various requirements. They can be particularly stringent given that this is a country rife with diamond and ivory smuggling. We further complicated matters with our desire for customers to pay little or no customs duties. Since the export and customs declaration is indelibly linked to your VAT declaration on a per-invoice basis (customs is part of SARS, who are the tax man) you can't just export with whatever invoice you want unless you want to swiftly end up in court. Our decision to attach invoices bearing No Commercial Value on the items has saved many customers a fortune in customs (and caused headaches for some!), but it has also made our lives complicated as we have been fully at the mercy of a customs process that can sometimes be extremely lengthy.
Ok, so what does that mean?For customers that ordered and chose EMS or Aramex as a shipping option there should (generally speaking) be no issue. There are always going to be situations where we drop the ball, but we're normally pretty good at resolving those where we're made aware of them.
For customers that ordered and chose surface mail, it has been a little more complicated. We only realised that many of the shipments were going well past their 4-6 week transit period when we were well into February. Most customers had been quite reasonable and had waited a bit after that before saying anything. Added to that was the constant trolling in the previous thread by a single user under multiple accounts, and we ended up not being able to see the wood for the trees. When we realised that many surface mail shipments were going past the expected date, and based on a suggestion in the old forum thread, we changed the surface mail timelines from 4-6 weeks to 6-10 weeks. The maximum of 13 weeks stayed and was still listed.
We have subsequently removed surface mail as a shipping option given the nature of the issues experienced.
I don't believe you! When I ordered it said nothing about 13 weeks!I understand that most people didn't see the 13 week maximum. If anyone's interested, I restored a copy of the database from the end of November 2013 (the contents of the delivery and returns policy are in the database) to confirm that:
https://i.imgur.com/zxrrneA.png. It was the last line in the paragraph on shipping timelines, so whilst it wasn't exactly vague I can understand how it could have been missed. I'm also aware that we have had disconnects between what is in the database and what was cached by our front-end's long lived full page cache during updates, and in those instances we have come to an agreement with the buyer and reshipped their parcel to them via an express service.
So it says it on some policy document, that's so obscure! SCAM!When you put a product up online there are a million decisions to make. Do you include shipping in the cost and then provide upgraded shipping options? How do you effectively convey information to customers
without overloading them with fourty paragraphs of text during checkout? We have a lot of experience domestically where we import products on-demand and they are sold online. We specify timelines in our delivery and returns policy documents on those sites, and have historically not had any issues - the occasional customer that doesn't read it and enquires after ordering is pointed to that page and all is fine. Many of them do read the document before completing checkout, as it is linked to in multiple places. Maybe South Africans are more patient given the poor service delivery that is so common here, but either way
based on our previous experience we did not feel it necessary to list the timelines anywhere other than on the delivery and returns policy page. Looking back on it that was not the best decision, but it was the best decision we could make with the information at the time.
Does this mean OpenRigs is a scam??I'm obviously a little biased, but no. It is and has always been our mission to have an excellent product that customers are ecstatic with. We have made mistakes, and for those mistakes the blame rests solely on our shoulders. Where we have made mistakes we always do our best to rectify them.
Well you obviously made a mistake with the shipping timelines!Yes, we absolutely did. We expected 4-6 weeks, and that was what we published as an
expected timeline. However, we were always very clear on the maximum timeline.
All this sounds like justification, stop with the excuses!I cannot apologise enough where customers have unwittingly or unknowingly ordered using a shipping method that can up to 13 weeks over and above the entire fabrication and customs process. I know that I would be extremely irate if I ordered something and didn't have it 4 months later, so I do sympathise with customers. The question is: what can we do about it?
Can't you just re-send my parcel using a fast shipping method? Or just refund me?There are some customers where re-sending has been possible (e.g. where we shipped using the incorrect method), and when their surface mail shipment arrives we will find a way to get it back from them. However, it simply isn't possible for us to do this at scale - we don't have the money to double-ship everyone's parcel. Refunding poses similar issues - we simply do not have the funds to refund customers where there item has already shipped.
Allow me to illustrate. Let's say you paid $150 for an OpenRigs product in December, $100 for the product and $50 for surface mail shipping. That shipping cost is a raw cost and we don't make "profit" on shipping, so we've spent the $50. The raw materials, labour, packaging, etc. for the product is, say, $85. So we have $15 left over as profit. But now, many months later, that profit has been spent covering the normal costs of business - exorbitant PayPal fees, covering our losses from instances where we've been scammed by customers (it happens, unfortunately), rent, salaries, etc. I haven't drawn a salary since the end of December, but I can't expect any of the staff to do the same.
Now you come along and you want a refund. Usually in a business there is cash flow that allows for it, but because of the negative feedback loop and because we have removed surface mail as a shipping option, there simply aren't sales to create sufficient new profit to cover a refund on even a single order. That does not mean we're going to make a run for the border, but it
does mean that in order for us to refund or replace an order
we are reliant on a successful claim from our cargo insurers.
That's not my problem! Just give me my money or I'll serve you with court papers!Ok, let's put the 13 week surface mail thing aside for the moment. Knowing that we are not able to refund you unless we claim from our insurer, what do you think is the alternative? Legally speaking it's very simple: you could take us to court (small claims or otherwise), demanding your money back. Of course, this is fraught with problems, as by the time that even gets filed all of the surface mail parcels will have been delivered or replaced/refunded by our insurer, invalidating non-delivery claims. I'd also hazard a guess that the court would most likely find in our favour, given that the policy and timelines were linked to, available and were specifically opted in to during checkout. Even if you were to pursue it regardless and for whatever reason the court found in your favour, what then? We're a business that has barely been in operation for a few months, we have no notable assets.
In South African law when a person (a natural person or, as in this case, a juristic person) has more liabilities than they have assets they have the option of sequestration (natural person) or liquidation (juristic person). In the event of insolvent liquidation or compulsory liquidation, the appointed liquidator would be responsible for selling off the assets and apportioning payments to creditors based on the size of their claim. Factor in costs of liquidation and so on, and you'd be lucky to receive a couple of cents to the Dollar as a refund. I think I can confidently say that nobody wants to go through the time and effort for that.
Whatever, I'll destroy you on every forum and by talking to everyone I know!Our audience is technically minded. If they want to purchase from us the first thing they're going to do is Google, and they're going to come across one of the many "OpenRigs is a scam!" threads started by the troll from the previous thread, or even one of the newer ones where people are asking if we're a scam. The damage has already been done, as this thread is evidence thereof. There is literally nothing you can do to worsen our reputation, it's already been destroyed to the point where shutting the business down is a very realistic option.
Well good, you deserved it, you treat customers like shit.I am truly sorry if anyone has felt mistreated by me or anyone on the support team. I have never wanted anyone to feel abused or mistreated by us. It has been very hard to know where to draw the line between pandering and putting our foot down. We've had customers that have said "I read the 13 week shipping thing and I understood the whole process, but I thought
my order would be faster". Other customers claim ignorance and put the blame solely on us - although, legally speaking, the principle of
caveat emptor applies as long as we were not being malicious in hiding our terms (which arguably we weren't as we linked to them in multiple places during checkout). So when someone comes and complains about not having received their order, I have to take it at face value and try resolve it for them to the best of my ability, which sometimes means refusing a refund at that point in the order process.
Where an order was processed and shipped within the timelines we stipulate (as in mindragon's order) but has been in transit for an extended period of time I don't want to be a dick. I want to refund them or have their parcel arrive, nothing would make me happier! And, after all, in an ideal world we wouldn't even be in this situation, and I'm very cognisant of the things we have done to exacerbate the situation. But, again, what choice do we have? Even if we could refund someone out our own pocket it would merely open the door to everyone claiming ignorance and getting a refund. The 13 week period was not a joke, it was a fundamental part of the process, and we have to stand by it.
But you're refunding mindragon, why can't you refund me?With regards to mindragon's order we have spoken to our cargo insurer and have agreed to evaluate the situation over the next few days. I have committed to mindragon telephonically that it would be resolved by April 1st.
That is not an offer I can extend to everyone, it is specific to him and his order and subject to a discussion I had already had with our insurer. It does not mean everyone can jump on the bandwagon and demand a refund - if I file for refunds for everyone under the 13 week transit period our insurer is just going to wait until the 13 weeks are up on all of them, and no amount of ranting and complaining publicly or privately is going to change that or make money for refunds magically appear. Even in cases where they allow the refund on assumption that the shipment is missing, they can and do watch for the item to be delivered, after which they use an agent in that country to reclaim their funds. Insurance companies hate paying money.
If I had started OpenRigs I wouldn't have done it this way, and I would refund customers immediatelyIt's easy to be an armchair businessman and tell us what we should have and could have done. It's even easier for us to look back in hindsight and know what we could have done differently. But it is what it is - customers chose surface mail either not realising that there was a 13 week maximum transit, or reading the 4-6 week transit and taking that as specific; and we were not as clear as we could have been regarding transit timelines.
You're a dick, you don't apologise to customers!Often times in amidst the need to constantly defend the company and myself, coupled with the desperation in trying to find a solution for customers, I forget to apologise. I get caught up in timelines and policies and explanations, because people are demanding that. But I am sorry. I am so very, very sorry that customers have not had an amazing experience with OpenRigs. I wish with all my heart that we could have had the benefit of knowledge right at the outset to know what a nightmare surface mail and customs would be. Over the last few weeks I've been particularly despondent, and I have often wished I didn't even start OpenRigs. I just wanted people to have a great looking, well designed, solid case for their mining equipment, and I wanted them to benefit from all the effort we put in to designing the frames for our own use. Creating something amazing is no fun unless you are able to share it with others.
I am truly sorry for anyone that has had a bad experience with us. It has never been, and is still not, my intention to scam anyone or operate a fraudulent business. I cannot express how much I want to change things, how much I want everyone who chose surface mail to have their shipments
arrive. If I were a wealthy person in my personal capacity I would even put whatever amount needed in to reship or refund parcels that are still en-route. I am so, so sorry that I don't have the ability or the resources to do that. To be frank, the last few weeks in particular have been incredibly depressing, and I wake up 4 or 5 times a night to check to see if anyone has replied to a forum thread with more negativity. I have never before felt as dejected, exhausted, and completely powerless as I do right now.
Ok...ummmm...so now what?I hope I've explained the current situation as best I can and given insight into what our current options are. If you chose surface mail and your order is en-route and left the country less than 13 weeks ago I would beg you to please hold on till the end of that period, after which we can claim and refund or replace your order.
I understand completely if you don't care about anything I've written above - and that is your prerogative. I don't want to liquidate OpenRigs, I don't want to shut it all down, and I don't want to screw over those customers whose parcels may genuinely have gone missing, but it may be our best and only option. We had been working hard at providing a completely new logistics chain for OpenRigs in the next few weeks, and on launching a number of new products, but at this juncture I'm not sure if that is the correct way forward.
Just to reiterate, I don't want to turn this into another back-and-forth where someone counters a point and then I have to explain it and then on and on we go ad infinitum. I know that there are some things I've said and some decisions that have been taken that not everyone will agree with, but ultimately it is us who have to make the decisions, not anyone else. If this is a business that has tried and failed mainly due to circumstances beyond our control, so be it, it will have been a hard lesson to learn. As mentioned at the outset, if you want to discuss any specifics, please feel free to contact me using the contact details listed above.
