MUST READ article on our bitcoin future

[justusranvier]

There's no such thing as "perfectly written" when the article is completely out of touch with reality, unless you're evaluating it as a work of fiction.

You can't just make shit up and expect to be taken seriously when we've got objectively measurable standards to compare to.

You say Bitcoin has existential flaws that are hindering its adoption?

Prove it.

There are lots of things we can objectively measure in the Bitcoin network - number of wallet client downloads, blockchain.info wallet users, transactions on the network, etc.

Oh, so all those metrics are still increasing exponentially, consistent with an adoption curve that apparently doesn't give a shit about your pet concern? No wonder all you've got is rhetoric instead of evidence.

[1715269953]

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[1715269953]

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[daviducsb]

Article makes some good points about inclusion, though the boorish behavior described is not emblematic of the bitcoin community, just a case study of one segment that could use some manners.

[DooMAD]

I think the point many of you are missing is that we've gotten away from the ideals bitcoin was under-- namely to stop the greed of the big banks and reclaim our monetary system.  However, most of the community only cares about pump and dumps, insider trading and manipulation.  Most are just as bad  if not worse than what BTC was rebelling against.  The article doesn't pretend to have any answers, but aims to open up a dialogue on how to continue to grow this community before we all eat each other alive.

But the article repeats the mistakes of big banks and our current monetary system by calling for government regulation, which would be suicide.  I'm all for more information to educate people about bitcoin, but the article doesn't actually give any of that.  I'm all for ideas to make thing better, but the ideas have to be well conceived and the ones in this article just aren't.  Dialogue doesn't get thing done.  If you want something done, don't just talk about doing it, actually get it done.  

This is perfectly written. I tried recently to write an article addressing a few of the issues the author raised and was met by a barrage of criticism, so I understand why the author says that people will not like what he is saying. But it is true. I do think the larger bitcoin community need to discuss rationally the coins future, and how we all can be helping it along. Here here......

Also this thread here highlights why I love bitcoin talk, and get frustrated with reddit. Just look at the responses: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1y5jj9/we_need_to_talk/

Rational discussion doesn't mean we have to accept everything you're saying without questioning it.  If people are giving criticisms, you're not doing enough to convince them you're right.  Neither is whoever wrote the article.  The reddit comments might be somewhat terse, but I'm actually inclined to agree with them.  The article is a big collection of words which sound nice, but achieves nothing.  I'd rather have something concise and with a little more substance.

[DeathAndTaxes]

Yes to protect privacy, blockchain does not contain IP from which the transaction going, so for example some admin or hacker might tcpdump the protocol and detect the locations of transaction initiators for wealthy bitcoin addresses. He does not even have to hack, he can just sell the info to burglars.

The peer knows your IP address.  SSL doesn't change that fact.  The peer you are connecting to may be recording your IP address right now.  SSL won't change that fact.  If you want to keep your IP address unknown you need to connect to the Bitcoin network from another IP address (VPN, Tor, etc).

Satoshi is not god after all and made a lot of mistakes on his way.

Nobody said Satoshi was god but Bitcoin isn't going to drop PoW after five years for something new and untested which may never work.  Having realistic goals is a good idea, and this is one which simply will never happen.  Even if developers wanted it to happen, the consensus system makes forcing a change like that dead on arrival.  Some aspects of Bitcoin will never change.  If you believe those aspects are critically flawed the best option is to create a new alternative.  Satoshi made that possible by using an open source license.

Sure, so the block hashes take 16GB? I seriously doubt it. Blocks are sequential, so you can build blockchain index of hashes and supply info replacing them with compressed data (e.g. first find 255 most frequent transactions, then 255 most frequent combinations etc etc).

No transaction is any more frequent than any other.  Transactions are unique.  Transactions are mostly "random" data like public keys, signatures, and hashes.  They are non compressible by nature.

SPV clients don't download the blockchain they download blockheaders and then request transaction data to perform independent verification on an as needed basis.  For full nodes the blockchain can be pruned (removing spent outputs) and that offers a savings of about 65% (that number will increase in time).  Supporting pruned copies of the blockchain is an improvement being worked on right now but there are some technical and logistical challenges.  Compressing the blockchain is next to useless as most of the data in it is non-compressible.

What development have you done for Bitcoin?  No need, I already know the answer.

I really try to do develop bitcoin related software, but see, I don't have a stash of thousands of Bitcoins and I have a family to feed so, that's that...

Most people developing for Bitcoin aren't doing it to get paid.   Most people developing for ANY open source project aren't doing it to get paid.  They are doing it because they enjoy doing it, it makes them better software developers, they have a project they can code on which isn't constrained by the realities of their job, and they want to help.   You have no free time?  

[dynodog]

"Some people think that Gox needs to be saved to recover the price. That will just delay the inevitable. This needs to just happen and go away."

I disagree w this statement.  If Gox dies, there will be such an incredibly negative feeling about the nature of bitcoin IN THE GENERAL PUBLIC (not the Bitcoin community) which will extinquish the excitement about bitcoin.  People OR COMPANIES who were thinking about getting into it (which bitcoin needs) won't, and for many years to come.  Governments will then unquestionably lean towards greater regulation and prohibitions on bitcoin bc people got screwed.  

This author suggests that we look at forest, not simply the trees.  Yet, his statement about the death of mtgox, however, is the opposite of this.  Mtgox living, customers getting paid, and then it slipping into a small exchange or eventually closing down the road is what bitcoin needs.    

In fact, what the author hopes for sounds to me very much like being an asshole, and someone who is touting an alternative crypto currency (he could have said everything he said without having to mention Zetacoin.)  

[DooMAD]

"Some people think that Gox needs to be saved to recover the price. That will just delay the inevitable. This needs to just happen and go away."

I disagree w this statement.  If Gox dies, there will be such an incredibly negative feeling about the nature of bitcoin IN THE GENERAL PUBLIC (not the Bitcoin community) which will extinquish the excitement about bitcoin.  People OR COMPANIES who were thinking about getting into it (which bitcoin needs) won't, and for many years to come.  Governments will then unquestionably lean towards greater regulation and prohibitions on bitcoin bc people got screwed.  

This author suggests that we look at forest, not simply the trees.  Yet, his statement about the death of mtgox, however, is the opposite of this.  Mtgox living, customers getting paid, and then it slipping into a small exchange or eventually closing down the road is what bitcoin needs.    

In fact, what the author hopes for sounds to me very much like being an asshole, and someone who is touting an alternative crypto currency (he could have said everything he said without having to mention Zetacoin.)

People are already getting screwed by gox.  It's already giving a negative impression in the media.  It already looks like the digital equivalent of a "too big to fail" bank in the real world and we don't want that kind of comparison to become the norm.  I'm not saying gox needs to die right this second.  Obviously I hope people get as much of their money back as they can, but gox needs to die sooner rather than later.  The longer these incompetent idiots are dragging bitcoin's name into the mud, the worse things are going to get.  We need to show that there are no "too big to fail" exchanges and that we're better than the current fiat system.

[dynodog]

"Some people think that Gox needs to be saved to recover the price. That will just delay the inevitable. This needs to just happen and go away."

I disagree w this statement.  If Gox dies, there will be such an incredibly negative feeling about the nature of bitcoin IN THE GENERAL PUBLIC (not the Bitcoin community) which will extinquish the excitement about bitcoin.  People OR COMPANIES who were thinking about getting into it (which bitcoin needs) won't, and for many years to come.  Governments will then unquestionably lean towards greater regulation and prohibitions on bitcoin bc people got screwed.  

This author suggests that we look at forest, not simply the trees.  Yet, his statement about the death of mtgox, however, is the opposite of this.  Mtgox living, customers getting paid, and then it slipping into a small exchange or eventually closing down the road is what bitcoin needs.    

In fact, what the author hopes for sounds to me very much like being an asshole, and someone who is touting an alternative crypto currency (he could have said everything he said without having to mention Zetacoin.)

People are already getting screwed by gox.  It's already giving a negative impression in the media.  It already looks like the digital equivalent of a "too big to fail" bank in the real world and we don't want that kind of comparison to become the norm.  I'm not saying gox needs to die right this second.  Obviously I hope people get as much of their money back as they can, but gox needs to die sooner rather than later.  The longer these incompetent idiots are dragging bitcoin's name into the mud, the worse things are going to get.  We need to show that there are no "too big to fail" exchanges and that we're better than the current fiat system.

The general public doesn't know what's going on.  The answer will be whether gox customers get paid or screwed.  While I agree that gox customers have been getting screwed, there is a HUGE difference between not getting your bitcoin right now vs. not getting it at all.  Showing "that there are no 'too big to fail' exchanges" is irrelevant to whether the general public will be accepting of bitcoin.  The MOST IMPORTANT ISSUE for the general public is security.  Gox dying says there isn't any (even though it was a problem with this exchange).  The public won't listen to the particular details of how this was one poorly run exchange, they just won't get into it (and neither will many companies).   

[DooMAD]

"Some people think that Gox needs to be saved to recover the price. That will just delay the inevitable. This needs to just happen and go away."

I disagree w this statement.  If Gox dies, there will be such an incredibly negative feeling about the nature of bitcoin IN THE GENERAL PUBLIC (not the Bitcoin community) which will extinquish the excitement about bitcoin.  People OR COMPANIES who were thinking about getting into it (which bitcoin needs) won't, and for many years to come.  Governments will then unquestionably lean towards greater regulation and prohibitions on bitcoin bc people got screwed.  

This author suggests that we look at forest, not simply the trees.  Yet, his statement about the death of mtgox, however, is the opposite of this.  Mtgox living, customers getting paid, and then it slipping into a small exchange or eventually closing down the road is what bitcoin needs.    

In fact, what the author hopes for sounds to me very much like being an asshole, and someone who is touting an alternative crypto currency (he could have said everything he said without having to mention Zetacoin.)

People are already getting screwed by gox.  It's already giving a negative impression in the media.  It already looks like the digital equivalent of a "too big to fail" bank in the real world and we don't want that kind of comparison to become the norm.  I'm not saying gox needs to die right this second.  Obviously I hope people get as much of their money back as they can, but gox needs to die sooner rather than later.  The longer these incompetent idiots are dragging bitcoin's name into the mud, the worse things are going to get.  We need to show that there are no "too big to fail" exchanges and that we're better than the current fiat system.

The general public doesn't know what's going on.  The answer will be whether gox customers get paid or screwed.  While I agree that gox customers have been getting screwed, there is a HUGE difference between not getting your bitcoin right now vs. not getting it at all.  Showing "that there are no 'too big to fail' exchanges" is irrelevant to whether the general public will be accepting of bitcoin.  The MOST IMPORTANT ISSUE for the general public is security.  Gox dying says there isn't any (even though it was a problem with this exchange).  The public won't listen to the particular details of how this was one poorly run exchange, they just won't get into it (and neither will many companies).  

That's like saying if a prominent car company starting making really crappy cars that broke down all the time and occasionally burst into flames for no reason, people who have never driven before would never buy a new car.  All that would happen is that people would recognise that particular manufacturer was useless, avoid buying from them and go to a different manufacturer instead.  They won't assume that all cars are unsafe because one company completely fucked up.

[cbeast]

A PAINFUL article and thread. Score for D&T with assist by Justus. Clearly a pump for Z-whatever coin. BS (the article author) may make no apologies, but the OP owes us one.

[waxwing]

A PAINFUL article and thread. Score for D&T with assist by Justus. Clearly a pump for Z-whatever coin. BS (the article author) may make no apologies, but the OP owes us one.

+ integral from -infinity to +infinity exp(-x^2) dx / sqrt(pi)

[stacksmasher]

That's because every person who mines takes money from everyone else who is mining. This is why you cant mine bitcoin anymore unless you have thousands of $$$ to invest in ASICS. The same exact timeline will happen with SCRYPT.... its just a longer ramp-up.

CPU
GPU
FPGA
ASICS

"We have continuously alienated new people by being curt or just assholes."

This happened in spades last week when I went to Litecoin forum and asked for help with my mining rig.
I all but got humiliated, mocked, and kicked in the ass as I ran out the front door while everyone was laughing.
Seriously.  All because I didn't know what I was doing with my troublesome hardware setup.

Anyways, thats not the point of the article.
Big +1 on everyone reading this article.

Good find.

-B-

[bitcoinsachs]

This.  This 1000x.  We can change and make bitcoin better.

http://www.bitcoinsachs.us/editorials/we-need-to-talk/

While I don't disagree with anything in the article it is simply a restating of what is "wrong" with the crypto-currency movement without any agenda or plan to improve it. There author says there should be more focus on education.  Ok.  I don't think many people will argue with that.  So what is the authors plan?  Is this article the launching of the first in a twenty part education video aimed at crypto-currency novices? No.  The author proposes and has done nothing to provide education.

On the other hand you have people like Andreas who simply decided (without the need for self aggrandizing speech about what is wrong) to start actually ... educating people.

One article, one podcast, and one tv appearance at a time.  His large number of podcasts and articles got him invited to speak at conferences and that has led to media outlets asking him to speak on the air.

Most recently:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJ1yWihBNA4

I will take one Andreas over 100,000 articles linked in the OP.  Did the author in the article forget about people like Andreas or was it just not convenient to the narrative, which paraphrased is "Bitcoin sucks and only I can see it"?

Ordinarily I don't respond to anything on this site, but this one will get a response.  You're wrong on every level.  I've created the Gender Equality Think Tank, CCWG (cryptocurrency Working Group) for the leaders and developers of all coins to get together share ideas, grow community, and to work together.  I've been working with BitcoinWife on educational ideas along with many lengthy conversations on Twitter about education for children, elderly, and ways to interact and grow adoption across socioeconomical boundaries not to mention on Zetacoin.cc we've been creating tutorials on how to use CoinBase, and Bter, along with a few other exchanges.  I am sure you mean't well, and you were not trying to be an obnoxious self-serving dickwad talking about what you know nothing about.  I know you were trying to suggest that I should write another article detailing out all the plans to fix these things, because you know, all of that responsibility lands solely on my shoulders and naturally, not yours.

Andreas, a friend of mine. Funny you should mention him.  He was mentioned in my article, you know, the guy out there antagonizing the United States government at every turn and every time a microphone is put in front of his face.  Yea, touched on that.  We're not even going to discuss his inability to talk to the people instead of over the people.  I love him to death and he is a genius, but if the average person has no idea what you're saying because you choose to only use words and phrases that you have to come back to explain, it's more self-serving than educational.  You have to know who your audience is.  The audience used to be the people who understand monotone heady computer science lectures, that's no longer the case.  One must adapt, that's his next challenge.

Also kind of funny the narrative of your post, probably by accident is "this article sucks and only I can see that it didn't come with the answers and now I have to think which is inconvenient"

This is reason #3,281 why I don't hangout on this site.  Too many trolls.

BCS

[bitcoinsachs]

There's no such thing as "perfectly written" when the article is completely out of touch with reality, unless you're evaluating it as a work of fiction.

You can't just make shit up and expect to be taken seriously when we've got objectively measurable standards to compare to.

You say Bitcoin has existential flaws that are hindering its adoption?

Prove it.

There are lots of things we can objectively measure in the Bitcoin network - number of wallet client downloads, blockchain.info wallet users, transactions on the network, etc.

Oh, so all those metrics are still increasing exponentially, consistent with an adoption curve that apparently doesn't give a shit about your pet concern? No wonder all you've got is rhetoric instead of evidence.

::Sigh::  Alright, so here is a project for you.  Close BitcoinTalk and GitHub for 5 minutes.  There is a world out there with people in it.  I know, IRL. It's crazy.  Careful, the sun is bright.  All those people you see, that's our ideal market, you know, mass adoption.  What you'll want to do is realize the demographics on Bitcoin (metrics) hold up my argument that 28 years old, college education, white males are 80%+ of the current Bitcoin demographic.  When BTCFoundation tweets a chart of the women in crypto and they ALL easily fit on it because there are 40 of them, something is wrong.  No one questioned the protocol.  My new concern is how defensive you became because someone asked some questions you don't have answers for. Questions that requires you to get out of your office area and contemplate.   It's posts like this that gives articles like that the support.  Out of touch.  Fight it, deny it, anything but take ownership and provide leadership. 

Bravo.

BCS

[justusranvier]

::Sigh::  Alright, so here is a project for you.  Close BitcoinTalk and GitHub for 5 minutes.  There is a world out there with people in it.  I know, IRL. It's crazy.  Careful, the sun is bright.  All those people you see, that's our ideal market, you know, mass adoption.  What you'll want to do is realize the demographics on Bitcoin (metrics) hold up my argument that 28 years old, college education, white males are 80%+ of the current Bitcoin demographic.  When BTCFoundation tweets a chart of the women in crypto and they ALL easily fit on it because there are 40 of them, something is wrong.  No one questioned the protocol.  My new concern is how defensive you became because someone asked some questions you don't have answers for. Questions that requires you to get out of your office area and contemplate.   It's posts like this that gives articles like that the support.  Out of touch.  Fight it, deny it, anything but take ownership and provide leadership.

Opinions are like assholes...

[Pangia]

No issues in the Dogecoin community like the ones described by the author of this article. All are welcomed and you will be walked through the entire process of learning about crypto and how to get started. You'll even be tipped a few Doges to get you on your way.

Come on over.

/r/dogecoin

[jmw74]

This.  This 1000x.  We can change and make bitcoin better.

http://www.bitcoinsachs.us/editorials/we-need-to-talk/

While I don't disagree with anything in the article it is simply a restating of what is "wrong" with the crypto-currency movement without any agenda or plan to improve it. There author says there should be more focus on education.  Ok.  I don't think many people will argue with that.  So what is the authors plan?  Is this article the launching of the first in a twenty part education video aimed at crypto-currency novices? No.  The author proposes and has done nothing to provide education.

On the other hand you have people like Andreas who simply decided (without the need for self aggrandizing speech about what is wrong) to start actually ... educating people.

One article, one podcast, and one tv appearance at a time.  His large number of podcasts and articles got him invited to speak at conferences and that has led to media outlets asking him to speak on the air.

Most recently:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJ1yWihBNA4

I will take one Andreas over 100,000 articles linked in the OP.  Did the author in the article forget about people like Andreas or was it just not convenient to the narrative, which paraphrased is "Bitcoin sucks and only I can see it"?

Ordinarily I don't respond to anything on this site, but this one will get a response.  You're wrong on every level.  I've created the Gender Equality Think Tank, CCWG (cryptocurrency Working Group) for the leaders and developers of all coins to get together share ideas, grow community, and to work together.  I've been working with BitcoinWife on educational ideas along with many lengthy conversations on Twitter about education for children, elderly, and ways to interact and grow adoption across socioeconomical boundaries not to mention on Zetacoin.cc we've been creating tutorials on how to use CoinBase, and Bter, along with a few other exchanges.  I am sure you mean't well, and you were not trying to be an obnoxious self-serving dickwad talking about what you know nothing about.  I know you were trying to suggest that I should write another article detailing out all the plans to fix these things, because you know, all of that responsibility lands solely on my shoulders and naturally, not yours.

Andreas, a friend of mine. Funny you should mention him.  He was mentioned in my article, you know, the guy out there antagonizing the United States government at every turn and every time a microphone is put in front of his face.  Yea, touched on that.  We're not even going to discuss his inability to talk to the people instead of over the people.  I love him to death and he is a genius, but if the average person has no idea what you're saying because you choose to only use words and phrases that you have to come back to explain, it's more self-serving than educational.  You have to know who your audience is.  The audience used to be the people who understand monotone heady computer science lectures, that's no longer the case.  One must adapt, that's his next challenge.

Also kind of funny the narrative of your post, probably by accident is "this article sucks and only I can see that it didn't come with the answers and now I have to think which is inconvenient"

This is reason #3,281 why I don't hangout on this site.  Too many trolls.

BCS

You don't hang out here because no one is buying your BS.  You're peddling this all-inclusive whining in the place that cares about it least.  The beauty of the internet, crypto and cypherpunks is that you don't have to tell misogynists that you're a woman, you don't have to tell racists you're black, etc.  Ideally no one cares, but crypto puts the power in your hands.

 Why is it that we assume minorities must necessarily be intersted in everything, and if they aren't present it must be because they have been forced out?  Men don't do quilting.  Why?  Because they don't like it.  No one thinks it's because women shut them out. 

[stacksmasher]

Don't you realize every person you help takes money out of your pocket? This is one of the major reasons mining is not very profitable anymore.

"We have continuously alienated new people by being curt or just assholes."

This happened in spades last week when I went to Litecoin forum and asked for help with my mining rig.
I all but got humiliated, mocked, and kicked in the ass as I ran out the front door while everyone was laughing.
Seriously.  All because I didn't know what I was doing with my troublesome hardware setup.

Anyways, thats not the point of the article.
Big +1 on everyone reading this article.

Good find.

-B-

[cbeast]

Don't you realize every person you help takes money out of your pocket? This is one of the major reasons mining is not very profitable anymore.

The days of making fast money by mining are over. Supporting Bitcoin by mining helps secure the network and makes your holdings more valuable in the long-run. Helping other people only helps Bitcoin grow. The real competition is in the large industrial mining and most of them don't need your help.

[Slingshot]

The days of making fast money by mining are over. Supporting Bitcoin by mining helps secure the network and makes your holdings more valuable in the long-run. Helping other people only helps Bitcoin grow. The real competition is in the large industrial mining and most of them don't need your help.
[/quote]


+10

 Bitcoin mining has shifted to major mining companies. It's just a fact of life. Today it's a very tough way to make a little if any cash at all after costs, but that may change all too soon once again...

 But the growth in the value of Bitcoin in fiat currency terms is extremely far from over. Simply buy Bitcoin and hold on to it no matter what. Save it. You will soon enough be glad you did. Think in terms of years, not mere months. Your future may well depend on it.

 Bitcoin can and certainly will help save us from any poorly managed monetary disasters. Or in other words from Central Banksters and Governments that inflate the value of our currencies away endlessly. The world is awash in unpayable debts. The interest payments alone are gutting our governments coffers. It's so extreme today Europe, Japan, and The UK as well as the USA are all unmitigated disaster zones. China too is a disaster of extreme Bubbles of debts. I suppose I read a lot more than most of you being much older but just as concerned as anyone.

 Stop being unkind to noobs whom ever they are.

 As for the Must Read, he lost me fairly quick tossing in an alt coin I care nothing about and was none too pleased he spamed this BITCOIN Forum with it of all places. I did fast scan his article, he had some points but really lost me when he stated not to bash the government or whatever and that their the ones with the power. Bullshit. We are the one's with the power. I refuse to be an economic slave from cradle to grave. Besides it's not governments that are the enemy; it's the Owners of the Central Banks. They have enslaved every government and it's peoples from cradle to grave.

Hence the need for this Decentralized Revolution starting with Bitcoin.

1. END THE FED.

2. Abolish ALL Debt Based Fiat Currencies.

3. Every government must print their own Debt Free Currency, or switch over to a Decentralized Cryptocurrency such as Bitcoin, or their own.


 These 2nd Gilded Age of Fraud & Greed is soon ending, and a Hard Monetary Reboot looms large. Mark these words. But we wont "collapse", but instead merely a quick re-organization and a new set of monetary schemes if the Banksters (Central Banks) have it their way. But we will all be poorer for it. Unless we have Bitcoin, or maybe Gold, and other Hard Assets paid for In Full with no liens on them.

 The idea is to get it across to the governments whom already fully well know who butters their bread and who gives out their orders that they don't have to follow. (the Banksters and most powerful Corporations). Instead the Governments need to abolish their Central Banks and currencies as they utterly fail, again, just like they have three times already in the last century alone. And tell the rest of the many thousands of Corporate lobbyists to take a hike. Of course that last part may be the hardest part of all. But the Banksters are in everyone's cross-hairs today. Even Congresses cross-hairs. No one cares for the Banksters and their Debt based Fiat currency schemes.



 I absolutely hate reading about giving in, giving up, and being a financial slave from cradle to grave when it's gotten so severe that those half my age (most of you) are going to have much worse than I ever did at your ages unless we all MAN UP. And our government leaders finally do too.

 I wont ever give up. NOT EVER. And I don't live in fear.

RE: Don't bash the government??? Do what??? I dare you say. O, be obedient worker slaves. That's Anti-American! That's Commie talk.

 And this fools fool says stop bashing the government??? Really. The Coward. That's like Anti-American, just like the Bailout Queens!

 What next? O wait? How bout sell some precious Bitcoin for a crapcoin he loves? No thanks. Really, thanks, but NO THANKS. SPAMMER!




Bitcoin is Freedom.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

For the person who penned the comment, "Too long, didn’t read.", boy do I have some investment opportunities for you, all conveniently located within walking distance from one another overlooking the Third Street Promenade.

BTW, I echo the overall sentiment espoused in the linked editorial, albeit I could care less about ZetaCoin, et al. (alts) though I'm sure some have attributes.

Apologies for not reading the rest of this thread past the OP because, quite frankly, it was too long to read.  

Thanks kindly to those responsible for penning a fine read. Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to turn up the heat of some hot tub with the hopes in ridding some of its occupants.

~Bruno Kucinskas