Theymos is taking illegal ads from a ponzi scheme - MakeBtc.org

[apsvinet]

@apsvinet:  Your spergy antics are becoming unbearable.  if you don't stop spamming this instant and delete your posts, I'm calling your parents.
You have been warned, young lady

Good argument.
Thank you for your input, theMiracle.

[1714692789]

1714692789

[apsvinet]

@apsvinet
I have never explained the difference between gambling websites and Ponzi websites, foolishly assuming I was dealing with adults.
My apologies, here you go:

A gambling website does not misrepresent itself as a form of investment, as makebtc.org, the website in question, does.
Since you can not be trusted to follow imbedded links, I'll quote some of the relevant text:

"MakeBTC's unique investment system allows you to provide yourself with future wealth!  You will earn residual bitcoin income over time as the website evolves."
(boldface added 4 extra lulz, color added because otherwise u'd miss it)

As far as your inability to "decipher a bunch of letters" -- those are called "words."
The ability to synthesize letters into words, and, in turn, derive meaning from the aforementioned, is called "reading and understanding" -- a skill set you traded in for your exciting life of huffing paint and "investing" in Ponzis.

Jeez.

Besides, just to prove my point even more about your incapability of reading properly, you misquoted me ( perhaps on purpose? ).
I was not able to dechiper a single argument out of the bunch of letters ( humorous implication that his ramblings were nonsense ).


lol, pwned.

[surfer43]

@surfer43 (below)  No, they are illegal, period.

Source? The laws they are prosecuted under are the only things making them illegal.

The scheme in question, MakeBTC.org, is also clearly misrepresenting itself as an investment:
"MakeBTC's unique investment system allows you to provide yourself with future wealth!  You will earn residual bitcoin income over time as the website evolves."

Fraudulent scheme is fraudulent.

It is misrepresenting itself, but it is honest when it comes to the ponzi scheme.

[theMiracle]

...
It is misrepresenting itself, but it is honest when it comes to the ponzi scheme.

I'm sort-a afraid to ask but ... "It's lying, but otherwise it's honest?" or "It's honest except for the parts where it lies"?
*"It honestly lies"?
"It lies, I lie. A lie about a lie is Truth.  Profit!"

*Oh, forgot your other question, so here, from the very same text you quoted (big chunk of text, quote post to read):

"The legacy of Mr. Ponzi lives on as pyramid and Ponzi schemes continue to plague us and challenge the law enforcement community. Fortunately, in the U.S., the Federal Trade Commission is just one among many agencies that have the authority to file suit to stop this type of fraud. The Securities and Exchange Commission also pursues these schemes, obtaining injunctions against so-called "financial distribution networks" which in fact sell unregistered "securities."(7) The U.S. Department of Justice, in collaboration with investigative agencies like the FBI and the U.S. Postal Inspection Service, prosecutes pyramid schemes criminally for mail fraud, securities fraud, tax fraud, and money laundering.(8)

State officials independently file cases in state court, often under specific state laws that prohibit pyramids. California defines pyramids as "endless chains" and prohibits them under its laws against illegal lotteries.(9) In a slightly different vein, Illinois classifies pyramid schemes as criminal acts of deception directed against property.(10) Some states like Georgia prohibit pyramid schemes under a statutory framework that regulates business opportunities and multilevel marketing.(11)"[/quote]

[apsvinet]

...
It is misrepresenting itself, but it is honest when it comes to the ponzi scheme.

I'm sort-a afraid to ask but ... "It's lying, but otherwise it's honest?" or "It's honest except for the parts where it lies"?
*"It honestly lies"?
"It lies, I lie. A lie about a lie is Truth.  Profit!"

It is a investment system, you invest and get a profit back. However there's not a guarantee you will.
Where does the site claim that there is a 100% chance you'll get your investment back?

[theMiracle]

...
Where does the site claim that there is a 100% chance you'll get your investment back?

I guess the same place where you bank claims that there's a hundred percent chance you'll get your money back -- no place.

As far as "it's an investment system":  My toilet is also an investment system.  You flush your money down, and get double your money back.  Or not.

[apsvinet]

...
Where does the site claim that there is a 100% chance you'll get your investment back?

I guess the same place where you bank claims that there's a hundred percent chance you'll get your money back -- no place.

As far as "it's an investment system":  My toilet is also an investment system.  You flush your money down, and get double your money back.  Or not.  Like that?

No, if you physically flush your money down your toilet they're lost and probably destroyed. Ponzis use the money that others invest to pay the former investors with a % profit. I'm surprised that you don't know the basics of it while trying to create arguments for why they shouldn't be advertised.

That said, I'm not defending/recommending ponzis to anyone, I've made several posts advising people not to use them, and voted for a new sections exclusively for ponzis, so that the rest of us don't have to see them. Ponzis don't work unless someone loses their money, which is wrong, but it should still be everybody's choice if they wanna risk it.

However it's still the forum owner's right to advertise them, if he wants to.

[surfer43]

...
It is misrepresenting itself, but it is honest when it comes to the ponzi scheme.

I'm sort-a afraid to ask but ... "It's lying, but otherwise it's honest?" or "It's honest except for the parts where it lies"?
*"It honestly lies"?
"It lies, I lie. A lie about a lie is Truth.  Profit!"

*Oh, forgot your other question, so here, from the very same text you quoted (big chunk of text, quote post to read):

"The legacy of Mr. Ponzi lives on as pyramid and Ponzi schemes continue to plague us and challenge the law enforcement community. Fortunately, in the U.S., the Federal Trade Commission is just one among many agencies that have the authority to file suit to stop this type of fraud. The Securities and Exchange Commission also pursues these schemes, obtaining injunctions against so-called "financial distribution networks" which in fact sell unregistered "securities."(7) The U.S. Department of Justice, in collaboration with investigative agencies like the FBI and the U.S. Postal Inspection Service, prosecutes pyramid schemes criminally for mail fraud, securities fraud, tax fraud, and money laundering.(

State officials independently file cases in state court, often under specific state laws that prohibit pyramids. California defines pyramids as "endless chains" and prohibits them under its laws against illegal lotteries.(9) In a slightly different vein, Illinois classifies pyramid schemes as criminal acts of deception directed against property.(10) Some states like Georgia prohibit pyramid schemes under a statutory framework that regulates business opportunities and multilevel marketing.(11)"

[/quote]
It doesn't use the word "ponzi" but it shows the mechanics quite clearly and these show it is a ponzi. Let's not get into semantics 

The scams are where people just say "Invest in my 'business' and I will pay you x% in x days!"

[theMiracle]

...
No, if you physically flush your money down your toilet they're lost and probably destroyed...

ORLY?  I invite you to try it with your own toilet.  Take five Twenty-dollar bills, throw them into your toilet, soak them in fresh urine, and flush.  Let the tank fill up.  Now flush again.  

I guarantee you that 12 hours after the final flushing, $200 will appear in your wallet.

[edit][SPOILER!  Do not read until your money is safely flushed down the toilet!]*Though I never said "the final flushing" was the last flush of your toilet.  I meant the final flushing evah, before the universe succumbs to heat death.

[apsvinet]

...
No, if you physically flush your money down your toilet they're lost and probably destroyed...

ORLY?  I invite you to try it with your own toilet.  Take five Twenty-dollar bills, throw them into your toilet, soak them in fresh urine, and flush.  Let the tank fill up.  Now flush again.  

I guarantee you that 12 hours after the final flushing, $200 will appear in your wallet.

[edit][SPOILER!  Do not read until your money is safely flushed down the toilet!]*Though I never said "the final flushing" was the last flush of your toilet.  I meant the final flushing evah, before the universe succumbs to heat death.

It's a bad example and a bad theoretical scenario ( supposed to be funny? ) that's irrelevant to the rest of the discussion.
Although everyone has already realized you're a troll.

[Marty413]

Btcweb.com stopped hosting makebtc.org on my request.

Thank you very much, protector of the innocent, knight of jurisdiction. You're setting a shining example of how to free the average joe of his painful burden of self-responsibility.

Did Mr. Internet Police also think about the people who deposited BTC into makebtc.org and were highly satisfied with its service? The people who regarded makebtc.org as an investment rather than gambling? I doubt it. And anyway: call it gambling, call it investment, call it what you want ... no one is forced to join and use it.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=420881.260

[theMiracle]

Marty!
Calculating counterparty risks and accounting for the chance that a blatantly illegal operation would get reported and B& are part of the fun of investing in Ponzis!
It's all a part of the game, bro -- enjoy it.

[apsvinet]

Marty!
Calculating counterparty risks and accounting for the chance that a blatantly illegal operation would get reported and B& is just some of the fun of investing in Ponzis!
It's all a part of the game, bro -- enjoy it.

Still haven't seen a response to what someone asked a bit earlier. How much btc did you donate to keep this forum running?

[theMiracle]

I have donated exactly 0 coins to this forum.  I have also donated 0 dollars to your upbringing, yet I feel justified in asking you to stop shitting up this thread.

@apsvinet:  Your spergy antics are becoming unbearable.  if you don't stop spamming this instant and delete your posts, I'm calling your parents.
You have been warned, young lady

[yatsey87]

...
it's hardly misleading or fraudulent when the ad clearly states it's a ponzi.
...

...and now we gots the new, improved disclaimer:

I don't see this warning or has it been removed now?

[Vortuarackne]

...
it's hardly misleading or fraudulent when the ad clearly states it's a ponzi.
...

...and now we gots the new, improved disclaimer:
http://s18.postimg.org/lanqpg8u1/Capture.jpg

I don't see this warning or has it been removed now?

Yes. The site isn’t a scam, we had a few problems which have since been resolved, therefore that disclaimer has been removed.

[koshgel]

Doesn't make sense for the Admin (Theymos) or the staff to defend Ponzi scams to this extent unless they are making a profit of it. Blatant advertising and condoning of this behavior is detrimental to the site and bitcoin as a whole. Lost a lot of respect for the staff here.

When it takes ordinary users such as Tomatocage to combat scammers, there is a serious issue. The extent of moderation is misplaced posts and spamming. Not very difficult job but keep it up.

[apsvinet]

Doesn't make sense for the Admin (Theymos) or the staff to defend Ponzi scams to this extent unless they are making a profit of it. Blatant advertising and condoning of this behavior is detrimental to the site and bitcoin as a whole. Lost a lot of respect for the staff here.

When it takes ordinary users such as Tomatocage to combat scammers, there is a serious issue. The extent of moderation is misplaced posts and spamming. Not very difficult job but keep it up.

Where do you see anybody in this thread defending ponzi schemes whatsoever?
So far I've only seen people bashing on it, and people defending the owner's right to advertise whatever he wants.

Big difference.

[koshgel]

Doesn't make sense for the Admin (Theymos) or the staff to defend Ponzi scams to this extent unless they are making a profit of it. Blatant advertising and condoning of this behavior is detrimental to the site and bitcoin as a whole. Lost a lot of respect for the staff here.

When it takes ordinary users such as Tomatocage to combat scammers, there is a serious issue. The extent of moderation is misplaced posts and spamming. Not very difficult job but keep it up.

Where do you see anybody in this thread defending ponzi schemes whatsoever?
So far I've only seen people bashing on it, and people defending the owner's right to advertise whatever he wants.

Big difference.

There is a running defense by the staff that Ponzi constitutes gambling but the logic behind that defense is gambling = inherent risk for being involved in the activity. This can be applied to ANYTHING. They are taking the definition of gambling too literally. Maybe it needs to be reworded to "Traditional Gambling". The easiest solution is to simply move all Ponzi related threads to "Games and Rounds".

[BadBear]

Easiest solution yes, not the best though. Best (and more likely to be implemented) solution is a new board for HYIP. HYIP have always been lumped in with gambling, and they should be separated. Ponzis would fit better there as well. I made another post about it here. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=510636.msg5657950#msg5657950