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Author Topic: Time to grow up.  (Read 3920 times)
maaku
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October 09, 2011, 09:13:07 PM
 #21

I misspoke. All altchains seen so far (except namecoin) should have no valuation, based on any rational economic analysis. Bitcoin has value because of existing and expected future economy of goods and services. Namecoin provides a distinct utility that is purchased by destroying namecoins. The altcoins? So far, no released altcoin has made a single tangible step towards defining future value. Rather, they've rushed to setup exchanges without clarifying the purposed and long-term vision of their coins. Speculators rush in to buy in the hope that the price will rise. But with no defined or expected long-term realization of actual value, that becomes the very definition of a Ponzi scheme; it's a scam.

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October 09, 2011, 09:22:10 PM
 #22

I misspoke. All altchains seen so far (except namecoin) should have no valuation, based on any rational economic analysis. Bitcoin has value because of existing and expected future economy of goods and services. Namecoin provides a distinct utility that is purchased by destroying namecoins. The altcoins? So far, no released altcoin has made a single tangible step towards defining future value. Rather, they've rushed to setup exchanges without clarifying the purposed and long-term vision of their coins. Speculators rush in to buy in the hope that the price will rise. But with no defined or expected long-term realization of actual value, that becomes the very definition of a Ponzi scheme; it's a scam.

Why do you think the long-term value of LiteCoin is so different than Bitcoin (as in "approaches zero", not just a few orders of magnitude)?
Bot-friendliness is perhaps the only fault I find with LiteCoin, and thus far it's a theoretical one ... it might be realized, dropping the coin value, but it might turn out not to be a significant factor after all.

This is my take on LiteCoin in more detail.

Please do not pm me, use ron@bitcoin.org.il instead
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bulanula
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October 09, 2011, 10:23:38 PM
 #23

I misspoke. All altchains seen so far (except namecoin) should have no valuation, based on any rational economic analysis. Bitcoin has value because of existing and expected future economy of goods and services. Namecoin provides a distinct utility that is purchased by destroying namecoins. The altcoins? So far, no released altcoin has made a single tangible step towards defining future value. Rather, they've rushed to setup exchanges without clarifying the purposed and long-term vision of their coins. Speculators rush in to buy in the hope that the price will rise. But with no defined or expected long-term realization of actual value, that becomes the very definition of a Ponzi scheme; it's a scam.

Finally somebody that says it how it really is. Well done !
2112
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October 09, 2011, 10:39:55 PM
 #24

All altchains seen so far (except namecoin) should have no valuation, based on any rational economic analysis.
I don't want to start a pointless flamewar, but could you plese answer my question:

What does "rational economic analysis" say about the existence of the city of Las Vegas,Nevada,USA?

1) The City of Lost Wages should be a small, dusty hamlet.
2) There's more than one definition of "rational".
3) Something else, please explain.

Thank you very much.

Please comment, critique, criticize or ridicule BIP 2112: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=54382.0
Long-term mining prognosis: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=91101.0
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October 09, 2011, 10:47:19 PM
 #25

All altchains seen so far (except namecoin) should have no valuation, based on any rational economic analysis.
I don't want to start a pointless flamewar, but could you plese answer my question:

What does "rational economic analysis" say about the existence of the city of Las Vegas,Nevada,USA?

1) The City of Lost Wages should be a small, dusty hamlet.
2) There's more than one definition of "rational".
3) Something else, please explain.

Thank you very much.

People with excess income use it for entertainment? Las Vegas does not refute rational economics. Shit, look at bitcoin; everyone wants to get rich without working for it.

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ElectricMucus
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October 09, 2011, 11:24:37 PM
 #26

Well, its a evolution lets recap:

ixcoin - outright get quick rich scheme
i0coin - joke about the latter
solidcoin - revised get quick rich scheme with viral pr campain
then the big collapse of them people realized there has to be more to gain acceptance so another method was devised
original geistgeld - experiment which revealed the technical infeasibility of asymmetrical difficulty adjustment
relaunched geistgeld - patched version of the above, author decided to get a bunch for free -> fail
brixes - first point of actual innovation but the author still decided to get some, unfeasible economics
fairbrix - fail due to unfeasible economics

outlook:
solidcoin 2 - will fail due to the fact that people watched !five! failed attempts by the authors to get rich, they all been there and done that.
litecoin - the most promising candidate yet

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they keep laughing, then they start choking on their laughter, and then they go and catch their breath. Then they start laughing even more.
bulanula
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October 09, 2011, 11:31:25 PM
 #27

Well, its a evolution lets recap:

ixcoin - outright get quick rich scheme
i0coin - joke about the latter
solidcoin - revised get quick rich scheme with viral pr campain
then the big collapse of them people realized there has to be more to gain acceptance so another method was devised
original geistgeld - experiment which revealed the technical infeasibility of asymmetrical difficulty adjustment
relaunched geistgeld - patched version of the above, author decided to get a bunch for free -> fail
brixes - first point of actual innovation but the author still decided to get some, unfeasible economics
fairbrix - fail due to unfeasible economics

outlook:
solidcoin 2 - will fail due to the fact that people watched !five! failed attempts by the authors to get rich, they all been there and done that.
litecoin - the most promising candidate yet

Why !? Care to explain please.
ElectricMucus
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October 09, 2011, 11:38:12 PM
 #28

Well it it seems to be missing all the reasons I listed why the previous attempts of a alternate cryptocurrency have failed.

I wouldn't vouch for it's success but either it does or we can add an additional flaw to the list  Wink

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they keep laughing, then they start choking on their laughter, and then they go and catch their breath. Then they start laughing even more.
maaku
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October 09, 2011, 11:50:11 PM
 #29

There is absolutely no technical difference between litecoin and the various brixes. It is yet another opportunistic scam.

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October 09, 2011, 11:50:48 PM
 #30

I like the "unfeasible economics" part a lot.

In b4 "zomgflation" argument ?

Also, for the love of Lukashenko, GG never had asymmetrical adjust (I haz Github to be my witness), y people no get fact straight ?

Geist Geld, the experimental cryptocurrency, is ready for yet another SolidCoin collapse Wink

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bulanula
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October 09, 2011, 11:50:59 PM
 #31

There is absolutely no technical difference between litecoin and the various brixes. It is yet another opportunistic scam.

Well said friend. Let's expose these damn scams.  
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October 09, 2011, 11:53:20 PM
 #32

I like the "unfeasible economics" part a lot.

In b4 "zomgflation" argument ?

Also, for the love of Lukashenko, GG never had asymmetrical adjust (I haz Github to be my witness), y people no get fact straight ?

Well the question then is... did you cash out yet?
1.2.3.... chance over  Kiss

There is absolutely no technical difference between litecoin and the various brixes. It is yet another opportunistic scam.
Well we can certainly say that people do not want a currency with an infinite supply. So it is just the next logical step of evolution.
We"ll need to wait out what happens with it I don't think it is time yet to be successful, the little spark of innovation probably isn't enough but anyone claiming to know a reason why it will fail... I challenge them to provide a theory.

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they keep laughing, then they start choking on their laughter, and then they go and catch their breath. Then they start laughing even more.
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October 09, 2011, 11:56:11 PM
 #33

I like the "unfeasible economics" part a lot.

In b4 "zomgflation" argument ?

Also, for the love of Lukashenko, GG never had asymmetrical adjust (I haz Github to be my witness), y people no get fact straight ?

Be careful. The party is watching ur internets comrade !
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October 09, 2011, 11:57:24 PM
 #34

I like the "unfeasible economics" part a lot.

In b4 "zomgflation" argument ?

Also, for the love of Lukashenko, GG never had asymmetrical adjust (I haz Github to be my witness), y people no get fact straight ?

Well the question then is... did you cash out yet?
1.2.3.... chance over  Kiss

So, I see you won't support your peculiar notion that economics are somehow infeasible ?

Well, sad.

This thread could use some pointless Aurstrian/Keynesian clash (pointless because neither applies to exotic non-autonomous non-state economies fueled by a quasi-monetary system based upon  infinitely divisible and re-nominable products eldritch mathematications)

Geist Geld, the experimental cryptocurrency, is ready for yet another SolidCoin collapse Wink

Feed the Lolcust!
NMC: N6YQFkH9Gn9CTm4mpGwuLB5zLzqWTWFw67
BTC: 15F8xbgRBA1XZ4hmtdFDUasroa2A5rYg8M
GEG: gK5Lx6ypWgr69Gw9yGzE6dsA7kcuCRZRK
ElectricMucus
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October 10, 2011, 12:04:11 AM
 #35

I like the "unfeasible economics" part a lot.

In b4 "zomgflation" argument ?

Also, for the love of Lukashenko, GG never had asymmetrical adjust (I haz Github to be my witness), y people no get fact straight ?

Well the question then is... did you cash out yet?
1.2.3.... chance over  Kiss

So, I see you won't support your peculiar notion that economics are somehow infeasible ?

Well, sad.

This thread could use some pointless Aurstrian/Keynes clash (pointless because neither applies to exotic non-autonomous non-state economies fueled by a quasi-monetary system based upon  infinitely divisible and re-nominable products eldritch mathematications)

Right a debate would be pretty pointless.
But my point is: The current Zeitgeist works against you...

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they keep laughing, then they start choking on their laughter, and then they go and catch their breath. Then they start laughing even more.
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October 10, 2011, 12:16:35 AM
 #36

I like the "unfeasible economics" part a lot.

In b4 "zomgflation" argument ?

Also, for the love of Lukashenko, GG never had asymmetrical adjust (I haz Github to be my witness), y people no get fact straight ?

Well the question then is... did you cash out yet?
1.2.3.... chance over  Kiss

So, I see you won't support your peculiar notion that economics are somehow infeasible ?

Well, sad.

This thread could use some pointless Aurstrian/Keynes clash (pointless because neither applies to exotic non-autonomous non-state economies fueled by a quasi-monetary system based upon  infinitely divisible and re-nominable products eldritch mathematications)

Right a debate would be pretty pointless.
But my point is: The current Zeitgeist works against you...

Zeitgeist...that's bad




....



I mean, the movie was pretty terrible all around.


Geist Geld, the experimental cryptocurrency, is ready for yet another SolidCoin collapse Wink

Feed the Lolcust!
NMC: N6YQFkH9Gn9CTm4mpGwuLB5zLzqWTWFw67
BTC: 15F8xbgRBA1XZ4hmtdFDUasroa2A5rYg8M
GEG: gK5Lx6ypWgr69Gw9yGzE6dsA7kcuCRZRK
ElectricMucus
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October 10, 2011, 12:19:19 AM
 #37

At least something we are in agreement with  Cheesy

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October 10, 2011, 12:21:24 AM
 #38

However, deflationists pinged and poked me with so much effort and zeal that I will introduce deflationary influences in TBX (don't worry though, no subsidy cuts and no "demurrage" reaching into user's pocket)

Watch out for next TBX bounty

Geist Geld, the experimental cryptocurrency, is ready for yet another SolidCoin collapse Wink

Feed the Lolcust!
NMC: N6YQFkH9Gn9CTm4mpGwuLB5zLzqWTWFw67
BTC: 15F8xbgRBA1XZ4hmtdFDUasroa2A5rYg8M
GEG: gK5Lx6ypWgr69Gw9yGzE6dsA7kcuCRZRK
bulanula
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October 10, 2011, 12:23:00 AM
 #39

However, deflationists pinged and poked me with so much effort and zeal that I will introduce deflationary influences in TBX (don't worry though, no subsidy cuts and no "demurrage" reaching into user's pocket)

Watch out for next TBX bounty

TBX is pretty much dead by now. Litecoin is the next popular scamchain mate. Go with the flow LOL
tombc
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October 10, 2011, 12:26:45 AM
 #40

Designing and implementing a completely new protocol takes some time, especially if it needs some major breakthroughs.
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