Mt Gox Endgame

[bitcointodayand]

It is possible that someone is making a large amount of money from this.

[bitcointodayand]

How high is the volume. Is it higher or lower than normal? I would think everyone would be selling, but how do people even sell if selling is frozen??? Is all of the volume buy volume? I don't get it.

[passionsurf]

If I was the owner of the largest bitcoin exchange, I would do something drastic to get everyone upset and sell off their coins until the price dropped to <$100, then I would secretly buy everyone's coins and subsequently release a statement, "problem fixed." Then viola, I'd be rich!!

[bitcointodayand]

No one could get away with that I think.

1. Who regulates the exchanges?

2. Although bitcoin is semi-anonymous, can you tell from the blockchain where in the world etc. a transaction occurred (or other potential identifying information)?

[passionsurf]

2. Although bitcoin is semi-anonymous, can you tell from the blockchain where in the world etc. a transaction occurred (or other potential identifying information)?

But MtGox is completely shut off from the outside world. So the only people buying the coins owned by MtGox clients, are other MtGox clients. Honestly, if all the MtGox clients are selling, then WHO is buying? Probably the executives, and secretly they're saying to themselves, "Haha suckers!!!"

... maybe it didn't go down like this, but if you had that kind of power, it sure would be tempting ...

[newguy05]

What is the Mt. Gox endgame, and why? Put forth your arguments with facts and sound point by point logic.

Thank you.

1)Buy panicked customers coins from their own exchange at $0.2 on the $1
2)Transfer and sell the coins at another exchange at market price while prevent everyone else from doing so
3)Rinse and repeat until the hole is filled and with a very nice profit in mark's pocket
4)Innocently reopen the btc transfer citing technical issue resolved...after wiping out majority of customers holdings
5) Retire and enjoy a wonderful life

mark karpeles is an absolute scum and thief, he would be in jail right now if this is any other currency but bitcoins.  I truly hope they catch this criminal.

[passionsurf]

What is the Mt. Gox endgame, and why? Put forth your arguments with facts and sound point by point logic.

Thank you.

1)Buy panicked customers coins from their own exchange at $0.2 on the $1
2)Transfer and sell the coins at another exchange at market price while prevent everyone else from doing so
3)Rinse and repeat until the hole is filled and with a very nice profit in mark's pocket
4)Innocently reopen the btc transfer citing technical issue resolved...after wiping out majority of customers holdings
5) Retire and enjoy a wonderful life

mark karpeles is an absolute scum and thief, he would be in jail right now if this is any other currency but bitcoins.  I truly hope they catch this criminal.

sounds plausible ... MtGox just hit $95

[Bobsurplus]

Endgame is happening now as I type.. to ZERO with a Bullet.

$91.50

[passionsurf]

I wish I could buy a bitcoin for $91.50 ... but all the other exchanges are still above $500

[FrictionlessCoin]

What is the Mt. Gox endgame, and why? Put forth your arguments with facts and sound point by point logic.

Thank you.

1)Buy panicked customers coins from their own exchange at $0.2 on the $1
2)Transfer and sell the coins at another exchange at market price while prevent everyone else from doing so
3)Rinse and repeat until the hole is filled and with a very nice profit in mark's pocket
4)Innocently reopen the btc transfer citing technical issue resolved...after wiping out majority of customers holdings
5) Retire and enjoy a wonderful life

mark karpeles is an absolute scum and thief, he would be in jail right now if this is any other currency but bitcoins.  I truly hope they catch this criminal.

sounds plausible ... MtGox just hit $95

Plausible??!  Entirely possible.  Nothing prevents MtGox from taking advantage of this arbitrage opportunity.   Their BTC withdrawal problem are just a ruse to prevent people from discover Mt.Gox massive short position.

Now the current price at Mt.Gox is allowing them to again cover their short.   It was the same in April, when it hit $50.  Mt.Gox made up a technical glitch because they were massively short.

[Nagle]

Mt. Gox is incompetent, broke, or crooked. The endgame depends on which.

If Mt. Gox is crooked, at some point Karpeles will try to make a run for it. He can't just hide in Japan; he's a gaijin and there are lots of pictures of him. Getting out of Japan would be iffy for him. I would not be at all surprised if he's been quietly informed by some part of the Japanese government that trying to leave the country would be frowned upon. (Japan runs on "suggestions" like that.) It's too late for "take the money and run". He might have gotten away with it at the top a few months ago.

If Mt. Gox is broke, they can try stalling some more, but it's not going to work this time. They have zero credibility now and everybody who reads any major  news source from the Wall Street Journal to Russia Today knows it. At some point, they'll be faced with a demand to pay up or submit to an audit from someone who can make them - a big creditor, a bank, the Japan Financial Services Agency, or the Seattle court in the Coinbase case. One very likely possibility next week is that whatever bank handles their inbound wire transfers will dump them. Mt. Gox has always had "problems" with withdrawals, never deposits. (That's why the "US government is stopping them" argument is bogus. The US government can stop banks from dealing with non-US parties for a number of reasons, but when they do, it stops transactions in both directions.) If there's a "hiatus on deposits", assume their bank dumped them.

If customer funds are missing, Karpeles is going to jail in Japan.

If Mt. Gox is not broke, but merely incompetent, there's a chance Mt. Gox might get out of this situation. But it will be really difficult. If they're not broke, they could hire an outside audit firm and publish a financial statement to restore their credibility. (A video of Roger Ver won't cut it.) They'd need to hire a controller. someone respected, with experience. (A "controller" in a company is in charge of financial controls, banking relationships, cash management, signing checks, budgets, and all that boring stuff that's keeps a company from going broke. There's no indication that Mt. Gox has one.) That might restore enough credibility to get their problems fixed and withdrawals fully functional. If they actually paid out every requested withdrawal quickly, they might make a comeback. If they try to stall further, it's going to backfire. That unwinds the same way as being broke.

[bitcointodayand]

How will this be actually sorted out to determine what is happening and happened? What is the proper and best way to do that??

[FrictionlessCoin]

Live MtGox Protest:

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/mtgox-protest

[Bit_Happy]

They are probably not doing that, imo.
I think they have money and will recover eventually as a "top 5" exchange.

What is the Mt. Gox endgame, and why? Put forth your arguments with facts and sound point by point logic.

Thank you.

Buy customer coins at discount prices, sell on other markets, repeat until all MtGox coins are purchased, resume business as normal.

uhm...

might be ... but this is breaking the law, and if that fact would be a fact indeed, and we would find it out gox will die forever. So perhaps there is a chance that they are not doing this

[K-Money]

although we don't know the full outcome of this debacle , wouldn't it be great to have Mark Karpeles featured on an episode of American Greed ?

[Bit_Happy]

How will this be actually sorted out to determine what is happening and happened? What is the proper and best way to do that??

It's an unregulated exchange. Their motive to remain "proper" includes a desire for future profits and wanting to stay alive.

[freedomno1]

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/mtgox-protest

Live right now

[MicroGuy]

What honest exchange would leave the trading engine running under these conditions. This is the biggest giveaway for me.

[newguy05]

How will this be actually sorted out to determine what is happening and happened? What is the proper and best way to do that??

it won't, there will probably be some civil suits which mtgox will settle and make it go away by throwing a few pennies at them.  In the real financial world if such event occurs, the BOJ will step in and perform a full audit to determine if any laws (the equivalent of the glass steagall act in the us)  are broken where the firm performed trades using client's money without their consent, but there is no such regulations/controls for bitcoins in japan or anywhere.  

So those criminals like mark karpeles will get away free and clear, also with a good legal case in court, while a massive amount of customer's wealth is wiped and much worse - the reputational damage it will inflict on bitcoin as a whole as anyone outside - the mom&pop shops and ceos of retail companies will only read the headlines "bitcoin crashing, exchange shuts withdraw etc.." without understanding the actual details.

I can't believe mark is still on the bitcoin foundation board, i lost a tremendous amount of respect for the foundation and will not be donating anything going forward to them, it is crystal clear as day what this criminal is doing to his customers and to bitcoin as a whole, yet the foundation remains static.

[FrictionlessCoin]

What honest exchange would leave the trading engine running under these conditions. This is the biggest giveaway for me.

Exactly.  The current BTC price at Mt.Gox is designed to rip-off customers.