SC Releases his 'white paper', hilarity ensues

[grod]

13 million premine, 10% tax, flood of coins during the first few days?   Constant lies (amount of pre-mine less than GG and Tenebrix?  Really?  In what world is 13 odd million < 7.7?), half-truths and misdirection?  Are you KIDDING me?  Why is anyone even debating whether this is in any way shape or form a scam or not?  There are no doubt even more pleasant surprises to be found when (or if?) the source is ever released.

You would have to be braindamaged to support this centralized, crony-driven cryptopyramid clusterfuck.  Why it's even allowed to advertise for free on a forum devoted to an open source, non-commercial, distributed crypto currency is beyond me.

Bring on Litecoin.  I'm support a scammer tag for CH 100%.

[1713881764]

1713881764

[1713881764]

1713881764

[1713881764]

1713881764

[1713881764]

1713881764

[1713881764]

1713881764

[johnj]

You think anyone is trying to convince CH?  The point is to make a record of his false claims, and dubious schemes.  If people still fall for it and get scammed well that is their fault.  At least the issues are documented.  Much like pointing out a scammer in the marketplace.  Nobody is trying to "reform" the scammer but simply point out his game.

Which once established, the scammer label would save lots of newcomers time,energy,and effort from getting scammed by this guy.

He still has an open offer to go through and address each of the many grievous accusations.

[Deprived]

In answer to 1) the blockchain has a set of rules for creation of money. These rules are well known (generates, and now cpf). No one can create money out of nowhere except under the conditions all the clients accept. It's not one million in a wallet, it's one million in an ADDRESS. So hopefully that clears it up for you.

The source code will verify that all clients will not accept the initial trusted accounts in any normal transaction. I could even show you in a live demonstration by attempting to send it right now and watching your client spit out "block failed trusted fund trying to be spent" in debug.log . You can analyse the EXE to find this string in there now if you want.

In regards to 3) Yes this could have been done in a split system whereby "some licenses" say this guy can create a trusted block. However this is quite limited and doesn't get around the fact these accounts will forever be accepted by clients. I think we should let the initial trust funds go under one million and then become "completely null" once we have some real millionaires.

So to be clear on this, the sole criteria to generate the alternate blocks (at difficulty 1) is that you have control of an address with a balance of 1 million+ SC2s.

And when clients verify the block they check the address signing it and scan the whole block-chain to make sure they have a balance of 1 million+ SC2?

That leads to two questions:

1. Isn't calculating the balance of addresses signing those blocks rather computation intensive?  Is there some short-cut to work out the bal;ance of an address that doesn't involve reading the whole block-chain?  If that's really what happens then isn't the network vulnerable to someone spamming 1 difficulty blocks signed with loads of different addresses - the time to parse the whole block-chain for an address is gonna be longer than the time to generate a 1 difficulty block.
2. If the client knows the addresses of the 1 million-holding accounts (to block spends from them) then I still don't see why yo udidn't have the criteria for generating the alternate blocks being "either it's one of these known addresses OR it holds 1 million+ SC2".  Down the line you could remove that code if you chose (meaning only the 'real' millionaires could make them) and there wouldn't be all this controversy about the pre-generated coins.

On an aside, I assume you still have the private keys for the super-node wallets (or we have to take your word for it that you deleted them)?  So saying you don't have control ofthem is misleading - as you have access to them and the ability to remove the hard-coded spend-block on them from the source-code.

I'm by no means totally opposed to the PRINCIPLE of how you're stopping 51% attacks - but the pre-genned coins seems needless and hence LOOKS like scam.  And there's a fair bit of hypocrisy in your comments elsewhere about exchanges providing RL info on their operators (to reduce the likelihood of them scamming), but you (with the ability - and a past record - of rewriting the block-chain) give no information at all on yourself and fail to identify who the trusted nodes are.

[grod]

THAT IS THE ENTIRE FRAKING POINT.  Secure commerce without trust.

The problem with SolidCoin is for it to work, the only way it works we have to implicitly trust Coin Hunter.

But he's more trustworthy than Visa, which is why he and his cronies deserve 10% of the network revenue in perpetuity, and a 13 million coin head start.  On top of whatever pittance the rest of the peasants propping up his scam get.

[CoinHunter]

Coinhunter,

You do realize you just countered everything you stated prior to releasing Solidcoin 2.0.

In the above post you openly admit with no room for misunderstanding that a few large miners control 60% of the SC wealth. What happened to fair distribution?

BTW does CPF = Coinhunter Personal Fund?

Unfortunately I cannot control the mining nodes, who mines, who prepares etc. The SC1 launch was a lot fairer but since SC2 was public it was hard to "Surprise" people. Only about 320K coins have been generated and I'd say 60% of that went to about 15-20 people. That breaks down to about 9600 per person. Not exactly rich by any standard measure. My I7 found 10 blocks in the first 90 minutes then nothing for 3 hours. So personally I didn't mine very much either. To put that in perspective, I'm the one who did all the work and because I'm coding up to the last minute I didn't have time to setup servers for mining, etc. Do I really care that much? Not really, if people are happy with SC I'm sure they'll donate some SC to me.

I don't really understand how it's my fault such things happen, if I was to place some sort of ID on everyone who mined I'd then be criticized for doing that, so I'd never win regardless. People who have a lot of mining power, whether GPU or CPU make the most money. Happens in BTC will happen in SC. However unlike BTC at least we can have more people making _something_ due to use of CPU. There was an interesting theory about using human work instead of CPU work on our forum, I may investigate this at some point and see if it's feasible.

[Raoul Duke]

THAT IS THE ENTIRE FRAKING POINT.  Secure commerce without trust.

The problem with SolidCoin is for it to work, the only way it works we have to implicitly trust Coin Hunter.

That's only IF you use solidcoin...

And the part about secure commerce without trust is also lacking on Bitcoin. A LOT! One doesn't even need to step out of this forums to know that commerce is in no way secure with Bitcoin in it's current state. But maybe that's a problem with the way commercial transactions should be made and not with bitcoin. If money or any other good is changing hands there must be trust between the 2 parties that conduct the business, and honnestly i don't see Bitcoin or any other p2p crypto-currency solving that problem.
I understand that some of you might have thought that Solidcoin would be the one to resolve that problem, or at least to contribute some solutions to the problem.

[johnj]

Coinhunter,

You do realize you just countered everything you stated prior to releasing Solidcoin 2.0.

In the above post you openly admit with no room for misunderstanding that a few large miners control 60% of the SC wealth. What happened to fair distribution?

BTW does CPF = Coinhunter Personal Fund?

Unfortunately I cannot control the mining nodes, who mines, who prepares etc. The SC1 launch was a lot fairer but since SC2 was public it was hard to "Surprise" people. Only about 320K coins have been generated and I'd say 60% of that went to about 15-20 people.

But you can control what you falsely advertise.  This reinforces the bait-and-switch accusation: Your original bait, in your own words, was designed to be a 'fair distribution'.  Now it turns out the distribution of a gross 330k coins (in one day) went to ~15 people.  Which isn't taking into account the 13m+ premined.

Scam.

[CoinHunter]

So to be clear on this, the sole criteria to generate the alternate blocks (at difficulty 1) is that you have control of an address with a balance of 1 million+ SC2s.

And when clients verify the block they check the address signing it and scan the whole block-chain to make sure they have a balance of 1 million+ SC2?

That leads to two questions:

1. Isn't calculating the balance of addresses signing those blocks rather computation intensive?  Is there some short-cut to work out the bal;ance of an address that doesn't involve reading the whole block-chain?  If that's really what happens then isn't the network vulnerable to someone spamming 1 difficulty blocks signed with loads of different addresses - the time to parse the whole block-chain for an address is gonna be longer than the time to generate a 1 difficulty block.
2. If the client knows the addresses of the 1 million-holding accounts (to block spends from them) then I still don't see why yo udidn't have the criteria for generating the alternate blocks being "either it's one of these known addresses OR it holds 1 million+ SC2".  Down the line you could remove that code if you chose (meaning only the 'real' millionaires could make them) and there wouldn't be all this controversy about the pre-generated coins.

On an aside, I assume you still have the private keys for the super-node wallets (or we have to take your word for it that you deleted them)?  So saying you don't have control ofthem is misleading - as you have access to them and the ability to remove the hard-coded spend-block on them from the source-code.

I'm by no means totally opposed to the PRINCIPLE of how you're stopping 51% attacks - but the pre-genned coins seems needless and hence LOOKS like scam.  And there's a fair bit of hypocrisy in your comments elsewhere about exchanges providing RL info on their operators (to reduce the likelihood of them scamming), but you (with the ability - and a past record - of rewriting the block-chain) give no information at all on yourself and fail to identify who the trusted nodes are.

You ask some good questions. However if I may address your last point first. Do you know how many coins were pregenned and I have in control? It's 80000 leftover from the genesis. That is *it*. Now the CPF funds are a different matter, they aren't premined they are part of the network protocol, so perhaps a bit of terminology use there would make it easier to follow. If you think 80000 coins to setup the CPF is "a lot of coin" then that is your own subjective value I guess. There was 30000 generated in SC1, 80000 in SC2, in the scheme of things quite low.

1) You don't have to verify the whole block chain, you verify the last transaction it was used in. It's quite quick and done for every transaction.
2) That can be changed going forward. I don't think many people will complain if those accounts are removed provided we have some real millionaires. Like I said though, if they drop below 1 million they're useless anyhow.

As an aside yes I still have all the wallets created. Mostly as a safe keeping thing right now and they are heavily secured. The people who end up with these wallets will know if anyone else is using them so if "I went rogue" they would know. Not that there is any point in going rogue with these wallets generally speaking, unless you want to cause some temporary network issues. SC2.0 cannot be rewritten in the same manner as Bitcoin can so users and businesses are rather safe in that way.

If you can't trust me to be honest with the CPF you won't trust that I've got the other wallets either so it's kinda a moot point. All of them will be given to control of the NPO when started, and they'll have the capacity to analyze them to verify everything has been done "above board" so to speak. And at that point I will remove them, and they can create new addresses and whatnot for these funds to finalize all of my involvement.

[Bobnova]

If the nodes run <1m that means each one has sent 200k coins to the CPF, 10 x 200,000 = 2,000,000 coins premined with delayed delivery.

[CoinHunter]

b) smart enough to come up with a mechanism to funnel 12 million coins into his personal wallet every year into perpetuity

It's actually 200K * 10, or 2 million total that can be "Funneled" back into CPF. Like I said, once they drop past 1 million they are useless and cannot be used. Have you worked out how long that 2 million would take to be completely funneled to CPF? Perhaps you should.

[johnj]

b) smart enough to come up with a mechanism to funnel 12 million coins into his personal wallet every year into perpetuity

It's actually 200K * 10, or 2 million total that can be "Funneled" back into CPF. Like I said, once they drop past 1 million they are useless and cannot be used. Have you worked out how long that 2 million would take to be completely funneled to CPF? Perhaps you should.

You've already stated you've receieved 32k today alone.  2m/32k = 62.5 days.

[CoinHunter]

b) smart enough to come up with a mechanism to funnel 12 million coins into his personal wallet every year into perpetuity

It's actually 200K * 10, or 2 million total that can be "Funneled" back into CPF. Like I said, once they drop past 1 million they are useless and cannot be used. Have you worked out how long that 2 million would take to be completely funneled to CPF? Perhaps you should.

You've already stated you've receieved 32k today alone.  2m/32k = 62.5 days.

Are you being deliberately obtuse? 5% every second block is from a trusted node, not 10%. 5% is created like a normal generate, 5% is from trusted node.

So that's 1.6SC currently every other block, or 16K at the moment. As difficulty increases block generation will decrease and we are seeing that now. Trying to use the "low diff" situation to formulate your ratio is quite stupid.

[grod]

Managed to get out at .0085 BTC/SC on btce while everyone was discussing the magnitude of this scam.  Thanks for the free BTC.  There's still 70 BTC up for grabs if people are fast.

[johnj]

b) smart enough to come up with a mechanism to funnel 12 million coins into his personal wallet every year into perpetuity

It's actually 200K * 10, or 2 million total that can be "Funneled" back into CPF. Like I said, once they drop past 1 million they are useless and cannot be used. Have you worked out how long that 2 million would take to be completely funneled to CPF? Perhaps you should.

You've already stated you've receieved 32k today alone.  2m/32k = 62.5 days.

Are you being deliberately obtuse? 5% every second block is from a trusted node, not 10%. 5% is created like a normal generate, 5% is from trusted node.

So that's 1.6SC currently every other block, or 16K at the moment. As difficulty increases block generation will decrease and we are seeing that now. Trying to use the "low diff" situation to formulate your ratio is quite stupid.

Your scam has readjusted difficulty 60x already, yet is still only at 1/7th of target block generation.

Trying to use 'the difficulty will adjust' when clearly it isn't to formulate your ratio is "quite stupid."

[CoinHunter]

It's 2 minute blocks ideally (I'd say 90 second average will likely happen due to the retarget algorithm). So that's 960 blocks per day if the trusted blocks take 0 time (they don't but let's forget it for this calc) and the normal blocks take 90s.

960 blocks per day * 1.6 = 1536SC a day, which would give us 1302 days or 3.5 years until they are completely funneled back into CPF. That's if trusted blocks took no amount of time, and with lower than maximum retargets. So fairly on the side of caution.

What a snail way to get 2 million coins, I must have failed my scamming classes.

[johnj]

It's 2 minute blocks ideally (I'd say 90 second average will likely happen due to the retarget algorithm). So that's 960 blocks per day if the trusted blocks take 0 time (they don't but let's forget it for this calc) and the normal blocks take 90s.

960 blocks per day * 1.6 = 1536SC a day, which would give us 1302 days or 3.5 years until they are completely funneled back into CPF. That's if trusted blocks took no amount of time, and with lower than maximum retargets. So fairly on the side of caution.

What a snail way to get 2 million coins, I must have failed my scamming classes.

Wait, you're receiving 1.5k SC a day, off the electricity of other miners. Whilst repeatedly deceiving them.  Looks like you aced your scam classes.

[coblee]

It's 2 minute blocks ideally (I'd say 90 second average will likely happen due to the retarget algorithm). So that's 960 blocks per day if the trusted blocks take 0 time (they don't but let's forget it for this calc) and the normal blocks take 90s.

960 blocks per day * 1.6 = 1536SC a day, which would give us 1302 days or 3.5 years until they are completely funneled back into CPF. That's if trusted blocks took no amount of time, and with lower than maximum retargets. So fairly on the side of caution.

What a snail way to get 2 million coins, I must have failed my scamming classes.

Um, i wish i make 2 million bitcoins every 3.5 years. You are trying to replace bitcoins, right? Imagine if every 3.5 years, Satoshi gets 2 million bitcoins funneled into his SPF (Satoshi Personal Fund)...

[CoinHunter]

Haha ok, well close minded people are going to be close minded what can I say. Anyone that is reasonable will read this thread and see my intentions.

[grod]

It's 2 minute blocks ideally (I'd say 90 second average will likely happen due to the retarget algorithm). So that's 960 blocks per day if the trusted blocks take 0 time (they don't but let's forget it for this calc) and the normal blocks take 90s.

960 blocks per day * 1.6 = 1536SC a day, which would give us 1302 days or 3.5 years until they are completely funneled back into CPF. That's if trusted blocks took no amount of time, and with lower than maximum retargets. So fairly on the side of caution.

What a snail way to get 2 million coins, I must have failed my scamming classes.

20k blocks mined first day.  Assuming adoption picks up (and it would have without such bombshells) the generation rate would never "catch up" to difficulty rising.  We saw this early on.  The higher the difficulty went, the faster the block generation went.

Looks like the retarget rate was designed for this behavior.  

So instead of 3.5 years steady state you're probably expecting more like 6 months at call it a modest 8000 blocks/day average.

[johnj]

Haha ok, well close minded people are going to be close minded what can I say. Anyone that is reasonable will read this thread and see my intentions.

You've again sidestepped the multiple grevioius accusations of your deceitful intentions.

If any mods have been keeping up, it's obvious you're dismissing critical questions and allegations.

I believe you'll receive your due scammer label soon enough