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Author Topic: The Lightning Network FAQ  (Read 2737 times)
Wind_FURY
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May 13, 2019, 07:35:10 AM
 #81

The Bitcoins are held in a multi-sig address as long as the channel between you and someone is open, in which Bitcoins can be transferred between you and someone through the channel. The term "off-chain" is really an imperfect term.


The term offchain is accurate , your complete failure to comprehend that is literally your stupidity.

The fact that you are unable to understand LN only transacts in IOUs , shows a level of ignorance rare in this world.
Quote
Quote
https://cryptobriefing.com/litecoin-not-bitcoin-will-drive-the-lightning-network/
Quote
the Lightning Network is an exchange of instant, peer-to-peer IOUs

https://blog.theabacus.io/lightning-network-2-0-b878b9bb356e?gi=9571dcb5373d
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when you get a Lightning payment?
Quote
you could think of it as a Bitcoin IOU

https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/gyw9aq/wtf-is-the-lightning-network-and-will-it-save-bitcoin
Quote
a payment channel is just a running list of IOUs


Since you have been given the same answer multiple times, by multiple people

Quit being a prick and asking the same question,
just because your dumb ass can't understand the answer.


For someone who claims to be "smart", you sure are gullible. Who wrote those blogs/articles, and are they qualified to write about cryptocurrencies at all? Haha!

But newbies, listen to Khaos77. Learn about Bitcoin and Lightning. The hard way. Cool


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May 13, 2019, 02:28:35 PM
 #82

Quote
But newbies, listen to Khaos77. Learn about Bitcoin and Lightning. The hard way. Cool
The direction you guys took this topic detoured any real progress of educating the masses specially noobs.
You've proven that LN is in-fact #Reckless
You guys pretty much so hijacked OP's post with arguments instead of FAQ's and for a project like LN this is not acceptable.
We got to work together to reinvent the wheel.
Can we get this back on topic?
 I've been refreshing new replies to this post in hopes to help someone with valid questions but you guys keep going back a forth.

-snip

Updated, thank you. I have just finished all of my exams so I will check if there are any outdated information in this thread in the next couple of days.

You guys should stop arguing here, @BitCryptex made this to be educational and informative.

I don't mind as long as the moderator doesn't close this thread without prior notice. This would make me unable to edit it in the future.
I do I want to Help!!!!

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May 13, 2019, 06:04:16 PM
Last edit: May 16, 2019, 07:42:08 AM by Khaos77
 #83

General Information

How are bitcoins on the Lightning Network different from on-chain bitcoins?

They are exactly the same coins. There are no Lightning Network tokens. The only difference is that bitcoins are stored in multi-signature addresses and transactions are settled between two parties without broadcasting anything to the blockchain (except when opening and closing the channel).

There are errors in the General information.

The Bitcoins on the blockchain and Lightning Network are not the same coins.
(They literally can't be as Bitcoins can not leave the bitcoin blockchain.)

Otherwise , when LN made any changes to the amount it would instantly be reflected on the actual blockchain, not waiting for a final settlement transaction to make the two ledgers match.

LN is a offchain fractional reserve IOU system, that can be used with Bitcoin or Litecoin or anything the LN network is coded for.

LN is not a true part of bitcoin. As Bitcoin can be used without LN and LN can be used without bitcoins.

LN notes/tokens or whatever you want to call them , are only and i repeat only representations of bitcoins or litecoins,
and only exist on the LN network , they transact in IOU of the given representation of value only.

There is nothing new under the sun.
*Banks used Gold or Silver, and let people transact with their bank notes and redeem those notes for gold or silver, if they so choose. *
*LN uses any segwit coin and lets people transact with their LN notes/tokens and redeem those note/tokens for any agreed upon segwit coins, if they so choose.*

Any denial of the above is pure nonsense.

If no one wants the truth to be mentioned, then I suggest locking this topic and restarting with a self moderated one ,
if the intended purpose is nothing more than a public relations hype machine.

G'Day  Smiley


FYI:
Just to show how LN is nothing more than a Offchain Bank,
Here is Lightning Labs detailing how to swap LN IOUs of Bitcoins for LN IOUs of Litecoins.
At no time do either the bitcoins or litecoins actually leave their own blockchains.
Proving LN IOUs are transacting in pure representations of each coin, and only onchain transactions redeem the IOUs.
https://blog.lightning.engineering/announcement/2017/11/16/ln-swap.html



LN is Banking.
https://ambcrypto.com/bitcoins-btc-lightning-network-is-semi-custodial-banking-says-bitcoin-unlimiteds-peter-rizun/
Quote
Peter R. Rizun, Chief Scientist at Bitcoin Unlimited, is one of the critics who remarked that the Lightning Network “is a semi-custodial banking.

He further stated that “the degree of custodianship is proportional to the fee required to escape from a non-cooperative channel.
"Rizun added that if the fee required to escape from a non-cooperative channel was in the “same order of magnitude” as a user’s channel balance, then the Lightning Network is “effectively full-custodial banking.”

Rizun views were backed by Emin Gun Sirer, a Cornell Professor, known to give his views on cryptocurrencies and the financial system on a regular basis. He said,“Peter nails it. If channel creation is expensive, LN turns into a re-creation of the banking system.”

Quote
   “Imagine that fees averaged $100 per transactions.
You’ve been using a channel for a while and now your remaining channel balance is near $100.
When I say “your remaining channel balance,
” I mean the amount you actually have available in that channel, already net of the $100 fee to close the channel to the blockchain.”

Quote
$100 fees are a low estimate in a future where most transactions are done on LN.
But $100 is a lot of money to most people in the world.
This means that for most people,
LN will not bring them financial freedom and the ability to be their own bank and send payments to anyone they choose.
For most people, LN will look like banking looks today.


Problems with LN : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ew2MWVtNAt0



https://forum.bitcoin.com/bitcoin-discussion/how-the-lightning-network-could-ultimately-destroy-bitcoin-t21092.html

Quote
The re-emergence of fractional reserve lending
At this stage, hubs would be financially incentivized and able to hold fractional reserves to start loaning out depositors' bitcoins to borrowers. As with modern banking, most of the general public would not be opposed to this. It is quite a familiar practice and arguably good for the economy. It would also allow the LN hubs to offer free accounts indefinitely, perhaps ultimately paying interest to depositors out of the revenue generated from the loans.
Now, hubs that implement all of these features would probably be very large. Smaller hubs wouldn't have quite the same ability or inclination to get into this kind of risky business (and stay in business). Naturally, these larger hubs would end up under the spotlight of government oversight and would move to preemptively register for all recommended licenses. To the general public, these hubs will become the best known and most attractive of the available options. They would have a good strong established reputation, be fully insured, have close government supervision, government approval, and provide a good free service.
Once hubs of this size and sophistication have developed, it would be next to impossible for anyone to compete, much as it is now essentially impossible for anyone to start a bank. As the industry becomes professionalized, all hubs would become subject to government regulation and it would become illegal to start one without first getting the relevant licenses. It might be possible for people in their basements to start black market hubs anyway. And even though they would be horribly expensive to set up and wouldn't make anything close to the profit of the regulated hubs, they might nevertheless continue to exist to help reduce costs for a small number of idealists passionate about privacy and true freedom. The network of black market hubs might end up somewhat similar to the Bitcoin network as it is today, or smaller; essentially a little-known irrelevance to the vast majority of people, but an option to escape the system for those who choose to do so.



Proposed Future Feature updates:   Wink
https://www.rene-pickhardt.de/index.html%3Fp=2131.html
Quote
I suggest to add another feature to the lightning network which I call a virtual payment channel (or in short VPC) to be described in this article.
Such a virtual payment channel will NOT be backed by the blockchain and thus cannot operate in a trustless manner.
However I see several use cases for virtual payment channels.
The most important one seems to be the fact that two parties which agree to create a virtual payment channel can instantly create a channel at basically arbitrary capacity.
This will help to increase the max flow properties of the network and allow for routing to become much easier.
A virtual payment channel basically allows both channel partners to access the funds of the other channel partner which yields some flexibility and obviously a high risk in case of fraudulent behavior.
While writing down the article I realized there are also some dangers to virtual payment channels.
The main one is that to some degree VPCs resembles the fractional reserve banking system even though it is still only credit based on positive money

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May 13, 2019, 08:28:47 PM
Merited by Wind_FURY (10), LoyceV (5), DooMAD (2), BitCryptex (2)
 #84

General Information

How are bitcoins on the Lightning Network different from on-chain bitcoins?

They are exactly the same coins. There are no Lightning Network tokens. The only difference is that bitcoins are stored in multi-signature addresses and transactions are settled between two parties without broadcasting anything to the blockchain (except when opening and closing the channel).

There are errors in the General information.

The Bitcoins on the blockchain and Lightning Network are not the same coins.
(They literally can't be as Bitcoins can not leave the bitcoin blockchain.)

Otherwise , when LN made any changes to the amount it would instantly be reflected on the actual blockchain, not waiting for a final settlement transaction to make the two ledgers match.

Incorrect.

LN is a name given to a method of using Bitcoin transactions in one particular way. Bitcoin consists of transactions that can be signed and broadcast over the Bitcoin network. There are many reasons to sign a transaction and keep it offline until a later date, and LN simply takes advantage of this ability. Bitcoin has the ability to create 2-of-2 multisig transactions where you simply delay the broadcast. If you consider this basic usage of transactions a different "coin" then practically every Bitcoin transaction that has happened is a different "coin" and every smart contract that ETH uses that hasn't been broadcast yet is also a different "coin" for some time, which would makes the term fairly meaningless. In terms of cryptocurrencies, using blockchain transactions of said coin that are sufficiently mathematically and cryptographically secured by a specific blockchains should be considered to be of that specific coin. This helps us use the term with relevancy when talking about a coin or alternative coins.

LN is a very cool "smart contract" of plain-old regular Bitcoin transactions on the Bitcoin chain.

Quote
LN is a offchain fractional reserve IOU system, that can be used with Bitcoin or Litecoin or anything the LN network is coded for.

Incorrect.

It's important to distinguish a banking IOU or fractional reserve IOU in it's most nasty feature: it can be fraudulently denied or withdrawn and requires trust in the hands of the banker. A major point of LN is that it requires zero trust. It is secured mathematically and cryptographically, since it is using Bitcoin transactions with a protocol that cannot be broken (minus any bugs, but that is the same of any nascent technology). Due to this, you cannot "fractionally" give someone more coins as if you have more coins that you do. This is what banks do.

With LN, you must prove that you own the Bitcoin you are transmitting over the LN by signing the transaction correctly which is then verified by the other node. If you pretend to have more coins than you claim, the LN funding transaction would simply fail (which happens on-chain to prove it).

LN is far from an IOU in that (most critical) sense. You could consider every Bitcoin payment an "IOU" on a magical global ledger, but again the term becomes less useful for the purposes of talking about cryptocurrencies. Since you cannot counterfeit, charge-back, or abandon any promises of payment with Bitcoin transactions through mathematics and cryptography -- it should be considered just hard money. The same is with a LN-type of Bitcoin transaction -- there is no way for a party to perform the same tricks of an IOU of a traditional bank.

Quote
LN is not a true part of bitcoin. As Bitcoin can be used without LN and LN can be used without bitcoins.

Incorrect.

LN-implementation of Bitcoin transactions is second-layer technology, and as such, Bitcoin Lightning Network cannot be used without Bitcoin. Bitcoin LN is a particular way of using Bitcoin. LN technology can also be implemented on other cryptocurrencies with the same mathematical security. For example, Litecoin has also implemented LN for their chain.

Quote
LN notes/tokens or whatever you want to call them , are only and i repeat only representations of bitcoins or litecoins,
and only exist on the LN network , they transact in IOU of the given representation of value only.

Incorrect.

See above. There is no representing here. It is purely regular Bitcoin transactions, and there are no other blockchains or coins involved in a LN-type of Bitcoin transactions anymore than there is involvement of other coins when doing a pure 2-of-3 Bitcoin transaction or a m-of-n Bitcoin transaction. It's a particular type of multisig transaction, nothing more. It just happens to have a really cool name, and it operates with mathematical and cryptographical security (Zero Trust) without clogging up the chain (yay, scalability!).

Quote
There is nothing new under the sun.
*Banks used Gold or Silver, and let people transact with their bank notes and redeem those notes for gold or silver, if they so choose. *
*LN uses any segwit coin and lets people transact with their LN notes/tokens and redeem those note/tokens for any agreed upon segwit coins, if they so choose.*

Incorrect.

Your bcash favoritism seems to have leaked there with your use of "segwit coins". Bank notes have a fundamental flaw in them, in that they require trust. Bitcoin eliminated that need for trust, and further, Lightning Network ensures that we don't lose that hard money security by also not requiring trust. This is where your comparison truly breaks down.

Bitcoin is extremely powerful because of the fact that once I own the private keys, there is NOBODY who can deny me the coins. Lightning Network is powerful for the exact same reason. That once I have made a Lightning Network transaction, there is NOBODY who can deny me the coins. We get the same level of security, with an awesome level of scalability, and even bonus benefits in privacy.

Quote
Any denial of the above is pure nonsense.

If no one wants the truth to be mentioned, then I suggest locking this topic and restarting with a self moderated one ,
if the intended purpose is nothing more than a public relations hype machine.

G'Day  Smiley

FYI:
Just to show how LN is nothing more than a Offchain Bank,
Here is Lightning Labs detailing how to swap LN IOUs of Bitcoins for LN IOUs of Litecoins.
At no time do either the bitcoins or litecoins actually leave their own blockchains.
Proving LN IOUs are transacting in pure representations of each coin, and only onchain transactions redeem the IOUs.
https://blog.lightning.engineering/announcement/2017/11/16/ln-swap.html

Categorizing cryptographically secure transactions that cannot be revoked by others is the furthest away from "offchain bank IOUs" that I can think of in terms of transactions. It's important to understand the security around the technology and the fact that it does not leverage any other chain other than the one it is implemented with.

This reply is not meant for Khaos77 because it seems there is some ulterior motivation for someone to be this incorrect about a technology yet seemingly so confidently wrong. In this case, I'm not here to start an argument - but I simply want to give people a chance to understand Lightning Network on their own. I, myself, may be incorrect about some of these things, and I hope that other Lightning Network experts can chime in. This reply is meant for anyone else watching the thread.

Now, I have to get back to writing code. Have a nice day!
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May 13, 2019, 11:04:14 PM
Last edit: May 16, 2019, 07:59:47 AM by Khaos77
 #85

Now, I have to get back to writing code. Have a nice day!

I hope your coding is better than your understanding of reality.  Kiss

Because the only things incorrect was everything you said.   Cheesy

Since my original post was correct, just reread my post as a rebuttable to your nonsense.


FYI:
I like Litecoin over Bcash, so as usual you are wrong again.
LN offchain fractional reserve IOU system also works with litecoin and litecoin has onchain transactions capacity to spare.  Wink
History Note : Segwit activated on Litecoin before it did bitcoin.

FYI2:
What is funny is that Tim aka micolancer.
https://microlancer.io/about
One of his Idea Contributors
Renepickhardt
Is the same guy that is proposing adding code for adding fractional reserve directly to LN.
https://www.rene-pickhardt.de/index.html%3Fp=2131.html
Now that is rich.   Cheesy

Guess Tim is a little clueless about the reality that he resides in.

*WhyFhy love Tim so much , because he ran a sig campaign for him.*
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5125748.0
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May 13, 2019, 11:16:13 PM
 #86


Now, I have to get back to writing code. Have a nice day!
Thanks for dropping in Tim! Very educational Smiley even for me xD

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May 13, 2019, 11:45:32 PM
Last edit: May 14, 2019, 03:11:28 AM by Khaos77
 #87


Now, I have to get back to writing code. Have a nice day!
Thanks for dropping in Tim! Very educational Smiley even for me xD

Clueless people do think nonsense is educational.
Maybe you two should get a room.  Wink

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58T0NlhNweA

FYI:
Since the truth seems to upset many here, I'll leave windfury, microlancer, & WhyFhy to spread their false propaganda.
G'Day to all.  Smiley
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May 14, 2019, 04:51:29 AM
 #88

i found this article talking about how tor could make running a bitcoin lightning node easier.
what do you guys think?

Quote


Tor Makes Launching Bitcoin Lightning Nodes Easier for Users, Casa Finds

source: coindesk.com Alyssa Hertig May 13, 2019 at 17:00 UTC  Updated May 13, 2019 at 17:15 UTC

The privacy-minded network Tor helps users to leapfrog one of the trickier aspects of setting up a bitcoin and lightning node, according to bitcoin startup Casa.

Casa CTO Jameson Lopp addressed this point during a talk at CoinDesk’s Consensus 2019 conference, where he discussed what Casa has learned about its product – a plug-and-play bitcoin and lightning node that aims to make it easier for users to run the software.

People often funnel their node network traffic through the Tor network to improve privacy, as the network shields the IP address of the node (which can show where it is located). Tor’s usefulness in this scenario is interesting because, in addition to this, such an approach helps users blast through some of the thorny networking hurdles that come with setting up a node.

As Lopp stated:

“With Tor, we were able to punch through all these networking issues.”

Casa added Tor support back in April. While it may sound contradictory, one of the biggest issues when setting up a Casa full node (which Lopp said takes up a “significant portion” of staff support time) is making sure that other nodes can see it on the network. To do so, users need to set up “port forwarding.”

In theory, this should be a simple process. A user just plugs in the port number the node is running on into their router’s port forwarding website. But users have all sorts of problems, Lopp said, since there are “hundreds of thousands” of different routers with different settings, and some are easier to set up than others.

Casa has tried a “universal plug and play” setting to help with this issue, but Lopp said it “works in like less than 50 percent of cases,” whereas Tor just routes around the problem altogether.

There is one negative aspect to using Tor, however.

“The only downside is you have to get a Tor browser,” Lopp said, which he admitted is not the easiest process. But between using Tor and trying to deal with a router’s port forwarding configuration, Lopp believes the choice is obvious.

“It’s easier to do that than going through all this networking complexity,” he said.
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May 14, 2019, 07:34:42 AM
 #89


Now, I have to get back to writing code. Have a nice day!

Thanks for dropping in Tim! Very educational Smiley even for me xD


Yes, thank you for explaining it like you did, Tim, whoever you are. I wish I was as eloquent, and as smart as you. But I am not a coder.

Whyfhy, sorry, but I have tried to explain it with the most detail as my stupid brain can explain it in the past. But sometimes it becomes like talking to flat-earthers who deny the truth. I hope smarter people in the community would drop by, and post more and memefy the deniers of the truth. Cool


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May 14, 2019, 09:24:06 PM
 #90


Now, I have to get back to writing code. Have a nice day!

Thanks for dropping in Tim! Very educational Smiley even for me xD


Yes, thank you for explaining it like you did, Tim, whoever you are. I wish I was as eloquent, and as smart as you. But I am not a coder.

Whyfhy, sorry, but I have tried to explain it with the most detail as my stupid brain can explain it in the past. But sometimes it becomes like talking to flat-earthers who deny the truth. I hope smarter people in the community would drop by, and post more and memefy the deniers of the truth. Cool
Your fine,  this turned into a "Infrequently" asked questionable debate. Now I think we can get this topic back on track. P.S. i brought Tim here to squash it , he's my LN FAQ guy. and a great teacher.

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May 16, 2019, 10:08:05 PM
 #91

seems microlancer is sidestepping the LN flaws to only talk about LN in utopian conditions.
its similar to saying banks cannot be robbed because an ATM requires a card, pin number and has a $500 limit
(totally ignoring the big picture outside standard practical/utopian use of banking)


LN channel partners can agree to a channel without needing a locked bitcoin network transaction (CLTV)
its how turbo and factories are concepted
the unit of measure in a channel(HTLC) is MSats.
HTLC using Msats cannot be broadcast to bitcoins blockchain
Msats can represent any value. whether it be a calculated btc balance, a coinbase mysql fiat balance or a pre agreed private value between the 2 parties

LN is not a community protocol. it has no global consensus. users can set up thier own rules and protocols between themselves. this is why LN is so fluid with all the different things being tried out like eltoo, factories. because they can play around with things privately, in small groups, etc.

i can re-write my node to accept or decline whatever i like.

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May 17, 2019, 11:15:23 AM
 #92


seems microlancer is sidestepping the LN flaws to only talk about LN in utopian conditions.
its similar to saying banks cannot be robbed because an ATM requires a card, pin number and has a $500 limit
(totally ignoring the big picture outside standard practical/utopian use of banking)


He is not. Those are facts you have repeatedly been denying.

Quote

LN channel partners can agree to a channel without needing a locked bitcoin network transaction (CLTV)


I can set up a Lightning node, connect to another Lightning node, and fund a channel without an on-chain transaction?


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May 17, 2019, 12:32:15 PM
Last edit: May 17, 2019, 12:48:48 PM by franky1
 #93

I can set up a Lightning node, connect to another Lightning node, and fund a channel without an on-chain transaction?

if the other party agree's to it yes
the 'collateral' of a channel does not have to be bitcoin.

remembr this simple fact.
when you set up a channel. that channel is NOT relayed around the network to have the community verify it.
its just a private agreement between you and someone else.

its how channls can be st up where the collateral is things like coinbase database balance (not a blockchain)
people can decide their own agreement of collateral

again you really need to start atleast using lightning and learning about it if you really want to get involved in conversations about it.
i still find it strange how you get involved in things you dont know or never used. its like you are just interested in the social drama you can cause.

please try learning about LN. and not the utopian perfect condition hype. but the actual usage and issues and limitations it comes with.


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Please do your own research & respect what is written here as both opinion & information gleaned from experience. many people replying with insults but no on-topic content substance, automatically are 'facepalmed' and yawned at
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May 18, 2019, 06:43:22 AM
 #94

I can set up a Lightning node, connect to another Lightning node, and fund a channel without an on-chain transaction?

if the other party agree's to it yes
the 'collateral' of a channel does not have to be bitcoin.

remembr this simple fact.
when you set up a channel. that channel is NOT relayed around the network to have the community verify it.
its just a private agreement between you and someone else.

its how channls can be st up where the collateral is things like coinbase database balance (not a blockchain)
people can decide their own agreement of collateral

I can host a poker party where we play for matchsticks, but it wouldn't have any negative impact on the other poker games where they're playing for money.  What's your point?  You clearly aren't going to be able to settle to the Bitcoin blockchain if you modify your client to do this, so stop lying about Lightning supposedly enabling fractional reserve when it doesn't.

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May 18, 2019, 06:58:33 AM
 #95

I can set up a Lightning node, connect to another Lightning node, and fund a channel without an on-chain transaction?

if the other party agree's to it yes


Is the agreement opt-in only in the Lightning Network?

Quote

remembr this simple fact.
when you set up a channel. that channel is NOT relayed around the network to have the community verify it.
its just a private agreement between you and someone else.


Incorrect. As how Lightning works, a confirmation is required when funding a channel.

Quote

its how channls can be st up where the collateral is things like coinbase database balance (not a blockchain)
people can decide their own agreement of collateral


I'm confused. What are you talking about?

Quote

again you really need to start atleast using lightning and learning about it if you really want to get involved in conversations about it.
i still find it strange how you get involved in things you dont know or never used. its like you are just interested in the social drama you can cause.


No, it's you. You love the social drama. "Because Core, because Core, because Core, they are evil bwaaahh!, they want small blocks, bwaah!"

Quote

please try learning about LN. and not the utopian perfect condition hype. but the actual usage and issues and limitations it comes with.


Can you do a demo that can show us that we don't need a confirmation to fund a channel in Lightning? It would help this topic.


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May 18, 2019, 09:58:26 AM
Last edit: May 18, 2019, 10:11:07 AM by franky1
 #96

Can you do a demo that can show us that we don't need a confirmation to fund a channel in Lightning? It would help this topic.

THOR TURBO
https://www.bitrefill.com/thor-turbo-channels/?hl=en
Quote
Turbo-charge your Lightning channels

We are proud to announce a new version of our Thor Lightning channel service utilizing a new feature called "turbo channels". Turbo channels allow anyone to instantly access the Lightning Network, through Bitrefill's nodes, with a bitcoin balance that's immediately spendable, removing any wait times associated with transaction confirmations.

How does it work?

You purchase a Lightning channel from us that comes with a total capacity, just like in the basic Thor product. But it also has a pre-funded balance in it, on your side, that you can spend instantly - without waiting for any confirmations.




you already been told about this several times, ..
dont be ignorant/arrogant. try to research instead

https://blog.bitrefill.com/the-hottest-lightning-network-tech-features-for-2019-and-beyond-dbaaac6ddfa4
Quote
Channel Factories

Channel factories are designed to reduce the on-chain transactions needed for each channel, which may not be a major difference in isolated cases but can add up when applied to the entire network. They could further raise the upper limit of transactions by acting as sub-channels for the entire network.

With channel factories, users would be able to create an essentially infinite number of channels with no need for further transactions on the chain. This could substantially increase the efficiency of the Lightning Network.

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Please do your own research & respect what is written here as both opinion & information gleaned from experience. many people replying with insults but no on-topic content substance, automatically are 'facepalmed' and yawned at
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May 19, 2019, 08:51:29 AM
 #97

I'm arrogant for calling out your lies and misinformation? Haha.

I have also got in contact with someone from Bitrefill. He said that you are nothing but a fudster. But I'll ask their representative in the forum to explain how Thor Turbo works and memefy you. Again.

But newbies, listen to franky1 and learn. The hard way. Cool


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May 19, 2019, 11:30:59 AM
 #98

I have also got in contact with someone from Bitrefill. He said that you are nothing but a fudster. But I'll ask their representative in the forum to explain how Thor Turbo works

Their post here explains things pretty succinctly.  And given that Lightning now forms what I would assume is a fairly integral part of their business model and they use it on a daily basis, no one seems to have felt the overwhelming compulsion to tell them that they need to do more research.  Funny, that.   Wink

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May 20, 2019, 06:17:11 AM
 #99

He's memefied. Haha.

But for the sake of the newbies, let's bring Bitrefill in here and explain how Thor Turbo actually works in more detail, and to explain in layman's terms, and how it's good for Lightning users and Bitcoin. Cool


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May 20, 2019, 08:47:30 AM
Last edit: May 20, 2019, 09:37:41 AM by franky1
 #100

bit refill go into detail about msats vs sats.. i dare you
by this i also mean the detail of cltv vs htlc.. i dare you

dont blanket over the details. actually explain how LN functions in the process of
locking funds onchain.
how LN as a separate network decides what/when/if a locked funds tx is valid
then explain how the LN part of 'pushing' payment occurs. including what denomination/tokn is used and if that denomination/token is broadcastable.

dont try skimming and hiding and ignoring the difference between htlc and cltv. dont try to make it sound like only cltv are ever handled.
actually explain it fully.
remember to explain how if there is magic that only permits 6confirm locks to be collateral. how your system breaks the magic to allow 0 confirm collateral, or where users can buy in using coinbase balance/altcoins.
or you can admit there is no magic and that channel partners can agree to whatever they like as the contract/iou is btwen them and only them(no community audit of LN agreement)

too many people only talk about the on-offramp in and out of bitcoin for small case scenario of bitcoin utopian utility in setting up/closing channels. but everyone is missing the point of this topic. which is about LN specifically. not the bitcoin on/offramp


anyway.. for those wondering if windfury even cares about bitcoin. or is just a core kiss ass... here's windfry's opinion on bitcoin
No, Bitcoin is not "superior" to purchase "any goods imaginable". The most efficient way to pay for most goods is simply by fiat, in electronic form like credit/debit cards, or its physical form in the form of cash.
he actually thinks people should stick with fiat (facepalm). let me guess he thinks bitcoin is not digital cash but LN's Msats are? as its very apparent h feels bitcoin is not a viable currency and how only LN's token can do the job

I DO NOT TRADE OR ACT AS ESCROW ON THIS FORUM EVER.
Please do your own research & respect what is written here as both opinion & information gleaned from experience. many people replying with insults but no on-topic content substance, automatically are 'facepalmed' and yawned at
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