Beware of scammers!

[Xunie]

Recently, since we've been slashdotted, we've had a few scammers lurking on the forums here.
Now, I want to warn everyone trading here, that there are scammers around here.
Please take some time and ask someone to be the middle man in your trade if you trade with a person you don't know or trust.

So please people, watch out for scammers.

PS: Report any scammers in this thread.

[Anonymous]

Its not really bitcoin  related however I want to call out the hosting company http://www.a2hosting.com/ so that people can avoid their service.I tried to sign up for hosting there and this is the reply I received-

Please fax or scan a copy of your government-issued picture identification (and credit card if you chose this payment method) to +1-734-527-6565 or attach it to a ticket.

I would stay away from them at all costs.

[em3rgentOrdr]

How about instead of a forum, use a more sophisticated rating system, whereby all dealers the use bitcoins are listed along with their reputation?

[Anonymous]

How about instead of a forum, use a more sophisticated rating system, whereby all dealers the use bitcoins are listed along with their reputation?

Im working on a bitcoin business directory at the moment.

[NewLibertyStandard]

Whenever someone sends you a PayPal payment, wait a week before you send your bitcoins or you might end up with neither bitcoins nor dollars once PayPal takes the money sent to you back back after they fail to get the funds from the deadbeat who will be using a different identity. Good luck getting your bitcoins back once they're gone. You can scam a scammer once, but don't hope to be able to do it twice.

[NewLibertyStandard]

For the record, I had a PayPal payment to me reversed from someone whom I had caught using multiple similar but different email addresses and different names. He also had very little reputation here on the forum. I thought that if I were to ask for a refund, he was likely to just drop his identity and create a new one. So I lied to him to get my money back. And then I lied some more because as far as I was concerned, he may have ripped off many other community members, and that made me mad. He then posted our conversations here on the forum and I posted his multiple names and email addresses. We argued a bit, I asked him to remove the conversations and once he did, I removed the information about him. The thread he created about me was locked once I started deleted my posts. It may get deleted in the near future. No one got harmed and I'm not offended or anything. The issue is resolved. Sorry for the drama, moderators.

[Anonymous]

For the record, I had a PayPal payment to me reversed from someone whom I had caught using multiple similar but different email addresses and different names. He also had very little reputation here on the forum. I thought that if I were to ask for a refund, he was likely to just drop his identity and create a new one. So I lied to him to get my money back. And then I lied some more because as far as I was concerned, he may have ripped off many other community members, and that made me mad. He then posted our conversations here on the forum and I posted his multiple names and email addresses. We argued a bit, I asked him to remove the conversations and once he did, I removed the information about him. The thread he created about me was locked once I started deleted my posts. It may get deleted in the near future. No one got harmed and I'm not offended or anything. The issue is resolved. Sorry for the drama, moderators.

I was just about to ask you for more info.Its a bit scary knowing people are floating around pulling these scams.The sooner the reputation systems get in place the better!

[NewLibertyStandard]

I was just about to ask you for more info.Its a bit scary knowing people are floating around pulling these scams.The sooner the reputation systems get in place the better!

The way it was resolved, he can't very well defend himself without letting people know that he was the other person involved. I'm fine either way, but so long as he doesn't defend himself, I'll offer a bit of defense on his behalf. He very likely was not scamming anyone. His activity was suspicious, but my means of resolving it were also suspicious. I didn't name him publicly because my suspension was not strong enough to risk my reputation on it. I got a bit carried away while I was looking out for my own interests and ended up indirectly causing the drama.

In any case, if there aren't scammers lurking, there surely will be soon enough, since transactions are non-refundable. So regardless of this situation, people should be careful. I was lucky that I only had $4.00 on the line. From now on I'm going to be more careful since many of my transactions are not so small.

[Anonymous]

I was just about to ask you for more info.Its a bit scary knowing people are floating around pulling these scams.The sooner the reputation systems get in place the better!

The way it was resolved, he can't very well defend himself without letting people know that he was the other person involved. I'm fine either way, but so long as he doesn't defend himself, I'll offer a bit of defense on his behalf. He very likely was not scamming anyone. His activity was suspicious, but my means of resolving it were also suspicious. I didn't name him publicly because my suspension was not strong enough to risk my reputation on it. I got a bit carried away while I was looking out for my own interests and ended up indirectly causing the drama.

In any case, if there aren't scammers lurking, there surely will be soon enough, since transactions are non-refundable. So regardless of this situation, people should be careful. I was lucky that I only had $4.00 on the line. From now on I'm going to be more careful since many of my transactions are not so small.

Fair enough.Without established reputation systems in place its probably a good idea to go into every transaction expecting you may lose your bitcoins.Its probably why not many people want to spend them!

[BitLex]

Beware of
sabbers/stevenbucks/Steven/StevenB

bitcoin-forum -user:sabbers
bitcoin*       -bca:1J7GXaJt8Fj68Z4C8nT7zNg7wPgxxFK29U | 1BXfygBCKXb7AUpwXLYBw376Ftc2xeQmFw

SecondLife**  -avatar:StevenB Admiral -key:296045f9-8592-4183-b092-d8aced67a292
new              -avatar:StevenB Bizet    -key:e388effe-b012-4cea-922d-6146624e6705

our deal: payback within a week -> no reaction within 2weeks
2weeks later: at least a PM, he'll payback within 1-2days -> no reaction within 2weeks
2weeks later: blacklisted

still owes me ~650btc, not a big loss for me, but for bitcoin-projects (not only mine).

well, i should have known better,
after lots of blah about how trustworthy he is ("you know i will pay u back"...), i actually told him i'll never know for sure, now i do.

anyway, DON'T DO BUSINESS WITH
sabbers aka stevenbucks (and if you know about some other identities of his, please let me know)



* i'm just sure about that one address, if anyones interested in investigating more, all coins gone TO 1CAjKR8TXkQ45RJ5iCpvMMyEQo5coSp396 and 1PvHsqRK8XDn6yCXo1FQ4C4ppYVZUSGnXE (two of mine, only a single 350btc transaction on the ladder) came from him (blockcount @~72000-72850).

** his SL avatar seems deleted/deactivated, guess he opened up a new account already.

[MoonShadow]

anyway, DON'T DO BUSINESS WITH
sabbers (and if you know about some other identities of his, please let me know)

Thanks for the warning, I was considering buying one of his Virgin Mobile cards.

[SmokeTooMuch]

List of stolen PayPal accounts/scammers (md5 hashs to protect real users):

• 5e03f3b731cdf0e9df83a160cc18f619
• 6f0bfca764f8c5d028a29182a75e937e

[playanaut]

I just joined Bitcoin today and I am dismayed that scamming is even possible at all. Didn't the designer take this into consideration from the start?  I know this is a new and experimental version.  But the fact that this is even a problem at all as already (in less than an hour) dissuaded me from using it any further.  I was ready to plop down $100 and buy some bitcoins today.  This should be a simple and secure process.  Apparently it isn't.  Not only do I need to worry that I will be scammed, but worse I, an honest *buying* customer, am also suspect.  That is ridiculous, and shows the fatal, and I do mean FATAL flaw of this system.  If decentralized currencies are ever to take off, they'll have to create a secure payment system right from the start. 

So final question - is the designer or designers planning on implementing (into the core) a secure system, so none of this nonsense is a problem anymore?

[S3052]

It is true that the system is not ideal yet.

At the same time, there are very good ways to buy bitcoins. I.e. If you are in the US, you can go via bitcoingateway.com (yes, you need to get registarted confirming your credit card, but once it is done you never have to do it again.

You can also buy bitcoins via MtGox if you are in Europe via EUR bank wire.

Sometimes it is worth to surpass some initial barrier before you get a benfit of something really great.

[kiba]

I just joined Bitcoin today and I am dismayed that scamming is even possible at all. Didn't the designer take this into consideration from the start?  I know this is a new and experimental version.  But the fact that this is even a problem at all as already (in less than an hour) dissuaded me from using it any further.  I was ready to plop down $100 and buy some bitcoins today.  This should be a simple and secure process.  Apparently it isn't.  Not only do I need to worry that I will be scammed, but worse I, an honest *buying* customer, am also suspect.  That is ridiculous, and shows the fatal, and I do mean FATAL flaw of this system.  If decentralized currencies are ever to take off, they'll have to create a secure payment system right from the start.  

So final question - is the designer or designers planning on implementing (into the core) a secure system, so none of this nonsense is a problem anymore?

First of all, you misunderstand "scam". Scam is usually a social engineering attack, not a software attack. It is your mind that need securing, not bitcoin.

[BitLex]

bitcoin itself is secure,
its other payment methods that scammers use to "chargeback" what they payed you,
or your faith in them, when you payed in advance.

if you send your money to someone you dont trust, or have never met,
this person might take your money and leave without giving you what you payed for.

bitcoin is like cash, if you give it away, its gone, there are no chargebacks or other ways to get your money back.

[davout]

I just joined Bitcoin today and I am dismayed that scamming is even possible at all. Didn't the designer take this into consideration from the start?  I know this is a new and experimental version.  But the fact that this is even a problem at all as already (in less than an hour) dissuaded me from using it any further.  I was ready to plop down $100 and buy some bitcoins today.  This should be a simple and secure process.  Apparently it isn't.  Not only do I need to worry that I will be scammed, but worse I, an honest *buying* customer, am also suspect.  That is ridiculous, and shows the fatal, and I do mean FATAL flaw of this system.  If decentralized currencies are ever to take off, they'll have to create a secure payment system right from the start. 

So final question - is the designer or designers planning on implementing (into the core) a secure system, so none of this nonsense is a problem anymore?

umm, maybe you should read the faq

[Gavin Andresen]

So final question - is the designer or designers planning on implementing (into the core) a secure system, so none of this nonsense is a problem anymore?

I'm not the designer of Bitcoin (I am one of the developers), but I have been thinking a lot about what it will take to make it safe(r) for my grandma to use.

playanaut, I'd love to hear your suggestions on how to make bitcoin better.  And (shameless plug): I'd also love to know if you think my latest project, ClearCoin, is a step in the right direction.

[FreeMoney]

I just joined Bitcoin today and I am dismayed that scamming is even possible at all. Didn't the designer take this into consideration from the start?  I know this is a new and experimental version.  But the fact that this is even a problem at all as already (in less than an hour) dissuaded me from using it any further.  I was ready to plop down $100 and buy some bitcoins today.  This should be a simple and secure process.  Apparently it isn't.  Not only do I need to worry that I will be scammed, but worse I, an honest *buying* customer, am also suspect.  That is ridiculous, and shows the fatal, and I do mean FATAL flaw of this system.  If decentralized currencies are ever to take off, they'll have to create a secure payment system right from the start. 

So final question - is the designer or designers planning on implementing (into the core) a secure system, so none of this nonsense is a problem anymore?

You seem confused, but I'm not sure where exactly.

You wouldn't expect the creator of anything else at all to make it 100% theft proof right? Even cars are easily stolen if you give away the keys. Nothing replaces a brain.

[jgarzik]

I just joined Bitcoin today and I am dismayed that scamming is even possible at all. Didn't the designer take this into consideration from the start?  I know this is a new and experimental version.  But the fact that this is even a problem at all as already (in less than an hour) dissuaded me from using it any further.  I was ready to plop down $100 and buy some bitcoins today.  This should be a simple and secure process.  Apparently it isn't.  Not only do I need to worry that I will be scammed, but worse I, an honest *buying* customer, am also suspect.  That is ridiculous, and shows the fatal, and I do mean FATAL flaw of this system.  If decentralized currencies are ever to take off, they'll have to create a secure payment system right from the start. 

bitcoin is digital cash.

Just like real cash, a con man might scam you, or a burglar might take it.