PBmining - legit?

[greyfoxsylux]

It's assumed a Ponzi because of the fact we don't see TXN ID's, a lot of their "behind the scenes" operations are very questionable. Not to mention that by having others say "I'm getting paid, why do you think it's a Ponzi?" it builds their reputation to attract other customers. The earlier customers get their ROI, but newer customers may not. Because the BTC paid by newer customers feed to the older customers, not to mention they might have a storage of BTC that maybe they stole or something, and are finding a way to "give it out for free" sort of thing. What happens if they stop getting income? Their prices and contract lengths are too good to be true for a legitimate mining operation, unless they're getting free or super incredibly cheap electricity.

I've e-mailed them myself about this, and wanted clarification. I suspect they tossed that e-mail away because they responded to my website improvement suggestions and some other basic info, but nothing about how they operate behind the scenes.

I've gotten my ROI from them in terms of USD value. In terms of BTC, I'm keeping track of that on a sheet. They're a bit more than halfway repaid in my book. It'll take a couple more months until it's repaid in full. After that, any extra BTC I get from them is fine by me, plus any extra GH I get from referrals. I'm moving onto Bitcoin Cloud Services, and checking them out. The operator seems more transparent and more responsive than PBMining's operators, so we'll see how that ball rolls. Their pricing is very similar to PBMining with higher minimum GH orders. We'll see how this goes.

[Ngonib]

Now u just have to wonder what it'l take for Cloud operations to be 'regulated'... Or is that even possible 

[MrPiggles]

It's assumed a Ponzi because of the fact we don't see TXN ID's, a lot of their "behind the scenes" operations are very questionable. Not to mention that by having others say "I'm getting paid, why do you think it's a Ponzi?" it builds their reputation to attract other customers. The earlier customers get their ROI, but newer customers may not. Because the BTC paid by newer customers feed to the older customers, not to mention they might have a storage of BTC that maybe they stole or something, and are finding a way to "give it out for free" sort of thing. What happens if they stop getting income? Their prices and contract lengths are too good to be true for a legitimate mining operation, unless they're getting free or super incredibly cheap electricity.

I've e-mailed them myself about this, and wanted clarification. I suspect they tossed that e-mail away because they responded to my website improvement suggestions and some other basic info, but nothing about how they operate behind the scenes.

I've gotten my ROI from them in terms of USD value. In terms of BTC, I'm keeping track of that on a sheet. They're a bit more than halfway repaid in my book. It'll take a couple more months until it's repaid in full. After that, any extra BTC I get from them is fine by me, plus any extra GH I get from referrals. I'm moving onto Bitcoin Cloud Services, and checking them out. The operator seems more transparent and more responsive than PBMining's operators, so we'll see how that ball rolls. Their pricing is very similar to PBMining with higher minimum GH orders. We'll see how this goes.

Remember they were also originally in Canada, but when Canada tried clamping down on bitcoin mining and changed the laws they were "magically" in Iceland.

It must be really hard to move a real mining facility, a fake one can be moved with a few retyped words.

[chrisnand]

I ended up with PBmining, 

i just hope i can reach break even before they left

[Und3rd0g]

'nuff said... http://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/news/gavin-andresen-suspects-ponzi-schemes-bitcoin-cloud-mining/2014/08/14

[MrPiggles]

'nuff said... http://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/news/gavin-andresen-suspects-ponzi-schemes-bitcoin-cloud-mining/2014/08/14

lol,

You heard it from me first

If anyone wonders why I care so much and have repeatedly pointed out this obvious ponzi is a ponzi, it's because stupid scams like this harm us all.

It mostly preys on noobs (along with a few who should know better)

The owner is involved in the bitcoin mining world so he can talk the talk when needed.

But when the ponzi collapses, all you noobs are gonna go running to law enforcement demanding recompense, and you'll tell everyone you know that bitcoin was a scam, that you were mining and you were robbed.

Ponzis like this are bad for the long term future of bitcoin, and the more people that realise that the better.

tl:dr when you lose your money don't blame bitcoin, blame your stupid greed.

[Giftcoins]

You're all fuckin retarded if you think being paid proves it's not a ponzi.


As for using Paypal, it's easy to use paypal anonymously and withdraw to prepaid cards. You can even use a payoneer card with a fake name if you want to do it with a US verified account.

It's a ponzi that will shut down soon, they stopped lowering price for ghs...this is a sign...less people will buy and there won't be money for old contracts

[leex1528]

It's a ponzi that will shut down soon, they stopped lowering price for ghs...this is a sign...less people will buy and there won't be money for old contracts

They stopped lowering prices for GHs because the difficulty change has been next to nothing for awhile...

[Gleb Gamow]

Is PBmining legit? Let's see, they left Saskatchewan, Canada, and moved to Iceland without skipping a beat in hashing and payout.



Any more questions?

[KimNam]

You're all fuckin retarded if you think being paid proves it's not a ponzi.


As for using Paypal, it's easy to use paypal anonymously and withdraw to prepaid cards. You can even use a payoneer card with a fake name if you want to do it with a US verified account.

lol, couldn't agree more
maybe they afraid this ponzi will collapse soon before their investment reach ROI
it's obvious ponzi, paypal verified didn't prove their real identity

[Cicero2.0]

I got involved with them back in February I think it was. I haven't done the math but I think I have broke even or am quite close to it. Either way without more transparency I would not recommend them. Payments have been on time etc. but in my 5+ months in the bit coin universe it has been proven that on time payments don't mean the service is legit. 

[snowcrawl]

All the Canadian customers, which includes me, are currently locked out of buying new contracts.  Assuming they are being honest.  I bet many of the Canadian customers kept buying more contracts anyways, despite the disclaimer, since it is pretty unlikely anyone is verifying where the buyers are from.  I started buying at the beginning of April, then quit as soon as the disclaimer was posted.  Which could have been a blessing in disguise.  My total cost for 150 GH was 0.833823BTC.   I have had 0.6615BTC paid out so far, or 0.677BTC including this week's in progress amount.  So perhaps another month and a half and I will be getting close to reaching the BTC invested.    At which point the weekly payout will be pretty small.

Let's not forget that during the first few months of the year, the bitcoins generated from mining were flowing a lot more generously than they are today.  So a lot of us were more apt to invest that BTC freely and unwisely on a variety of questionable ventures.

I just logged on to their site for the first time in quite a while to make that calculation. I was surprised to see how many more usernames and contracts at all levels have inflated the global stats page since the last time I checked.    Back a couple months ago there were a lot more gaps between different contract levels, with very few at the top.  Making it feel a lot more like a small operation.  Now I see lots of people on there with very big contracts.

The silver lining to this is all the good things that people have done with their weekly BTC payouts to help make the world a better place (ha ha).

[fivejonnyfive]

I had broke even overall, and then I just recently doubled up.

legitimacy 

but the payouts keep coming.

[specialed101]

I got involved with them back in February I think it was. I haven't done the math but I think I have broke even or am quite close to it. Either way without more transparency I would not recommend them. Payments have been on time etc. but in my 5+ months in the bit coin universe it has been proven that on time payments don't mean the service is legit. 

    You are right.

    I did do some math, and I calculated that it will take just under 6 months to break even. I could be off with my estimates, but that is what I came up with.

[FloridaBear]

If this is not a Ponzi, this is basically a bet on the difficulty. At today's 0.0033 (I don't see the .0029 on the site), about 8.9% difficulty increases are break-even, and it will take over a year to recover even 50% of your initial "investment" (hint: this is not an investment. Investments can be sold. This is a purchase, as there is no way to sell contracts that I can see, unless there is a private market I don't know about.).

Also, if their "statistics" page is accurate, they have 4,979 customers totaling 1,966 TH. I find it difficult to believe they have 1% of the total network hash rate. Where is all that mining power pointing? I don't think they are solo mining, as the variance would prevent them from such smooth payouts. So which pool? Why is none of that published? Wouldn't they want to assure customers that they have that 1966 TH to back the contracts? I would want to know that...

I don't know what the average purchase price per GHs was, but I would have to wager that it was significantly higher in past months than .0033/GHs, but even at that price, the site has taken in at least 6500 BTC, or a tad over $3M US. The average price may be even 100% higher, so I'd estimate they've taken in $4-$6M US.

If it is a Ponzi, the most likely place to end it would be on the down side of the bell curve--e.g. when their payouts start to exceed the new money coming in. Given the information they post, this could be somewhat predictable...perhaps I will try to do the math on this.

[NLNico]

So this China mining operation is good for "perhaps 5%" = ~10PH (so probably bit less?): http://www.thecoinsman.com/2014/08/bitcoin/inside-one-worlds-largest-bitcoin-mines/ That is pretty big, for example, they pay 1 million dollar a month for electricity.

PBmining has 1/5th of that. That is still a very serious big operation. Why can't we get any photos?

Does anyone has a source of the claim they are "now" operating in Iceland? I am unable to find that in any of PBmining's posts. If that is true, I find it very hard to believe they can easily move an operation that big to another country across the ocean. If PBmining is really the one that claimed they moved to Iceland, I am assuming it's a lie (if they are really mining.)

I am also wondering what the source was of that Eligius payout address. Because if they did get 300 BTC from mining on Eligius, they obviously do have some kind of serious mining going on.

I was able to do a background check on the owner and I do see he was legit in selling some relatively smaller stuff including miners, his internet history goes back 15 years too, so doesn't look too bad. But this is a much bigger operation obviously. Even though I cannot find any proof of PBmining being a ponzi, there are still many things that raise questions.

edit: or look at this China mining operation, good for "only" 575 Th/s (PBmining is 4x bigger than this): http://www.thecoinsman.com/2014/08/bitcoin/inside-chinese-bitcoin-mine/

[thirdprize]

People who got in early probably made their money back.  Beginning of june I was getting .02 return on my 60Ghs, July it was .013 and this week it was .009.    My original 4 month prediction is now looking a lot longer. 

[Und3rd0g]

Why exactly don't the PB-Mining "investors" ask the company for more information???  I am perplexed by this.

[dyask]

Why exactly don't the PB-Mining "investors" ask the company for more information???  I am perplexed by this.

They have many times.  PBMining refuses to answer. 

[NLNico]

"They", to be honest I think it's just "he", did say a few things about it:

Providing for our current customers is key priority, not gaining new sign-ups.  If you think we are shady, then don't bother.  Any new bitcoin mining company who provides all the information you are asking for is just asking for trouble.  No thanks.  Scam accusations are welcome, but we will continue to provide our service to our customers as we have been.  I won't address this issue any longer because this will be a losing battle no matter what I say.  Thanks.  

We do not want to violate our sales agreements and there are other issues which may put our entire operation and customers at risk.  

We will not put our operation at risk, violate sales agreements with our suppliers, open ourselves up to extortion, etc.  The list goes on.  When we feel more secure, we will become more transparent.  Our stance on this topic has not changed since page 33 of this thread.  

In January we made a lot of mistakes with our security, and just as we started releasing too much information about our business we just about got fried.  We are not going to let that happen again.

Our identity WAS revealed to the public at one point, actually, and we ended up retracting our transparency due to some disturbing events which occured.  Our stance on the subject has not changed.  We stand strong to protect the identities of our employees and to protect this operation.  As we continue to heighten our security, we will gradually become more transparent again.  

I find it hard to believe that a photo of their operations would violate sales agreements. Sure they might not be allowed to disclose a cheaper price if they get the hardware discounted, but just a photo..?

How about giving a list of BTC payment addresses from the pools they use, instead of the mixed ones. I can't imagine how that affects their security, identity, sales agreements or anything?