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Author Topic: Fix the blockchain!  (Read 2139 times)
ineededausername
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October 16, 2011, 04:18:03 PM
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Hi everyone,
I think the following things need to be pointed out about the blockchain.

1. It's stupidly huge and something needs to be done about that.
2. If you expect btc to be a real-world currency then it's going to get even more stupidly huge with more use.
3. It takes forever to download it, which puts off new users.
4. It's a Berkeley DB... ugh.

If I'm wrong, please correct me... but I think the blockchain needs to be changed so that it's more user-friendly, dev-friendly and efficient.

edit: I posted this in the Bitcoin Discussion forum because I wanted to discuss the effect of the huge blockchain on new users' adoption of bitcoin.

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There are several different types of Bitcoin clients. Hybrid server-assisted clients like Electrum get a lot of their network information from centralized servers, but they also check the server's results using blockchain header data. This is perhaps somewhat more secure than either server-assisted clients or header-only clients.
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October 16, 2011, 04:43:49 PM
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Quote
If I'm wrong, please correct me
Indeed you are

Quote
I wanted to discuss the effect of the huge blockchain on new users' adoption of bitcoin.
Already discussed tons of times...
ttk2
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October 16, 2011, 04:57:58 PM
 #3

Hi everyone,
I think the following things need to be pointed out about the blockchain.

1. It's stupidly huge and something needs to be done about that.
2. If you expect btc to be a real-world currency then it's going to get even more stupidly huge with more use.
3. It takes forever to download it, which puts off new users.
4. It's a Berkeley DB... ugh.

If I'm wrong, please correct me... but I think the blockchain needs to be changed so that it's more user-friendly, dev-friendly and efficient.

edit: I posted this in the Bitcoin Discussion forum because I wanted to discuss the effect of the huge blockchain on new users' adoption of bitcoin.




You make more than 500 posts and you dont know about block chain trimming? really?

Just in case i do something worthwhile: 12YXLzbi4hfLaUxyPswRbKW92C6h5KsVnX
kokjo
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October 16, 2011, 05:05:42 PM
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4. It's a Berkeley DB... ugh.
what is wrong with that? seriously! you do have a really low understanding of DB's right?

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves and wiser people so full of doubts." -Bertrand Russell
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October 16, 2011, 05:14:22 PM
 #5

3. It takes forever to download it, which puts off new users.

The first monthly "State of Bitcoin" summary coming from project developer Gavin Andresen ( 13 Oct 15:32 )
http://bit.ly/plkp7D

excerpt:
• Network stability and wallet security are still my top concerns; start-up experience for new users
  (the long wait to download the block chain) is next on my list.


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doobadoo
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October 16, 2011, 05:26:07 PM
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1. It's stupidly huge and something needs to be done about that.
2. If you expect btc to be a real-world currency then it's going to get even more stupidly huge with more use.
3. It takes forever to download it, which puts off new users.
4. It's a Berkeley DB... ugh.

If I'm wrong, please correct me... but I think the blockchain needs to be changed so that it's more user-friendly, dev-friendly and efficient.

edit: I posted this in the Bitcoin Discussion forum because I wanted to discuss the effect of the huge blockchain on new users' adoption of bitcoin.

RE #1:  I wouldn't call it stupidly huge, it can still fit on one cd rom..and those haven't been "big" for about 15 years.

RE #2:  Yes it will, i completely agree

RE #3:  I do not know for the life of me, why 95% of the block chain isn't downloaded along with the app..that is the first 140K or so blocks really should come with the initial download.  Its much smaller than 600 mb when you zip it.  Then updating the rest by the client should only take an hour or two.

RE #4:  Good luck trying to change that

"It is, quite honestly, the biggest challenge to central banking since Andrew Jackson." -evoorhees
eldentyrell
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October 17, 2011, 12:09:19 AM
 #7

RE #3:  I do not know for the life of me, why 95% of the block chain isn't downloaded along with the app..that is the first 140K or so blocks really should come with the initial download.  Its much smaller than 600 mb when you zip it.  Then updating the rest by the client should only take an hour or two.

Doesn't this just shift the burden of serving those blocks from the network as a whole to the site hosting bitcoin.org?  Sounds like that would be a bad thing; I'm sure their bandwidth bills are a burden already.

If the bitcoin wire protocol doesn't have an option for compression, I'm sure it would be easy to add it.  Then there would be no net bandwidth difference between bundling the blockchain with the client and letting it download on startup.

With all of that in mind, the client sure does need a simple "please wait while the blockchain downloads, X% finished" since it's reasonable to assume that this is the user's first encounter with the bitcoin client and they aren't likely to know what's going on.

The printing press heralded the end of the Dark Ages and made the Enlightenment possible, but it took another three centuries before any country managed to put freedom of the press beyond the reach of legislators.  So it may take a while before cryptocurrencies are free of the AML-NSA-KYC surveillance plague.
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October 17, 2011, 01:38:34 AM
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RE #3:  I do not know for the life of me, why 95% of the block chain isn't downloaded along with the app..that is the first 140K or so blocks really should come with the initial download.  Its much smaller than 600 mb when you zip it.  Then updating the rest by the client should only take an hour or two.

Doesn't this just shift the burden of serving those blocks from the network as a whole to the site hosting bitcoin.org?  Sounds like that would be a bad thing; I'm sure their bandwidth bills are a burden already.


how many thousands of people are dling bitcoin client every day?  I think the hosting bandwidth is trival

"It is, quite honestly, the biggest challenge to central banking since Andrew Jackson." -evoorhees
gmaxwell
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October 17, 2011, 07:18:56 AM
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4. It's a Berkeley DB... ugh.
what is wrong with that? seriously! you do have a really low understanding of DB's right?

The funnier part is that the _block chain_ is not stored using BDB.... the blocks are stored in a simple flat file with the blocks appended one after another.
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October 18, 2011, 04:11:54 PM
 #10

Related post here:
 - http://bitcoin-trader.blogspot.com/2011/10/that-god-damned-blockchain.html

ElectricMucus
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October 18, 2011, 04:37:42 PM
 #11




Not an argument, yes at some points quantum effects may employ a barrier but that's when we we even argue about trimming the blockchain, so until then can this topic rest plz?

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they keep laughing, then they start choking on their laughter, and then they go and catch their breath. Then they start laughing even more.
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