Bitcoin & PoW is a waste of energy & destroys nature

[S4VV4S]

Anything that has an electric plug and consumes electricity is bad for the environment.

That being said, what makes Bitcoin mining more harmful than let's say plastic products production?

[Come-from-Beyond]

Anything that has an electric plug and consumes electricity is bad for the environment.

That being said, what makes Bitcoin mining more harmful than let's say plastic products production?

Plastic product production becomes more and more efficient each year (numberOfItems/kWh ratio). Bitcoin production becomes less and less efficient each year (numberOfCoins/kWh ratio).

[HorseCoin]

hey i figured out the secret.  PoW and PoS are *EXACTLY* the same.  in fact they both use cgminer.
so drown on all you want.  they are EXACTLY THE SAME>  in SHAPE AND FORM.

Look into NXT a little more I think you are confusing PoS with script.

what's the difference?  u have the same amount of power (lets say 100 GH/s).  and you point 50 towards a PoS coin.  and 50 towards a PoW.  what makes the PoS coin worth more

[Boussac]

Let's not forget about all trojan hijacked PC's where their CPUs/GPUs are used to mine bitcoin. That would not be possible with PoS.

PoS networks can be launched at will without any barrier to entry so PoS coins are in unlimited quantities, therefore worthless.

PoW mining geographic distribution can be  fractionally seasonal so its actually reducing energy consumption for heating, to some extend.

[salsacz]

all PoW miners will be centralized in Iceland, in big houses...

[Come-from-Beyond]

PoS networks can be launched at will without any barrier to entry so PoS coins are in unlimited quantities, therefore worthless.

PoW mining geographic distribution can be  fractionally seasonal so its actually reducing energy consumption for heating, to some extend.

Also PoW coins can be premined in unlimited quantities, therefore worthless.

[Adrian-x]

Anything that has an electric plug and consumes electricity is bad for the environment.

That being said, what makes Bitcoin mining more harmful than let's say plastic products production?

Plastic product production becomes more and more efficient each year (numberOfItems/kWh ratio). Bitcoin production becomes less and less efficient each year (numberOfCoins/kWh ratio).

The situation is dynamic not a an equal comparison, as plastic gets cheaper we also become more efficient at consulting it and the value drops  so we consume more. Plastic is now so cheep we make single use Tupperware type containers with no economic impact to the consumer, where 35 years ago a Tupperware set cost 31% of you're monthly salary.

When Bitcoin drops to around 3 Bitcoin per block the network will only see growth as price increase exponentially.

[RWatts]

Energy spent on BitCoin is a fraction of the energy spent on fiat currencies.

[Come-from-Beyond]

Energy spent on BitCoin is a fraction of the energy spent on fiat currencies.

Aye, that's why we shouldn't search for more eco-friendly solutions.
/sarcasm

[traderman]

Bitcoin according to some estimates uses up to 130,000 megawatt hours a day, and that is only going to grow.

This is why Gridcoin came into existence. To divert a portion of the mining power towards science projects!

Article: http://crypt.la/2014/02/23/exclusive-gridcoin-founder-talks-revolution-in-mining/

[S4VV4S]

Anything that has an electric plug and consumes electricity is bad for the environment.

That being said, what makes Bitcoin mining more harmful than let's say plastic products production?

Plastic product production becomes more and more efficient each year (numberOfItems/kWh ratio). Bitcoin production becomes less and less efficient each year (numberOfCoins/kWh ratio).

Right, so creating let's say a plastic food container, the ones you get at take ways and junk food places is more efficient than generating a Bitcoin, HOWEVER, how is it more environmentally friendly?

The plastic food container is going to be dumped in the trash and it won't biodegrade for MANY years.
A Bitcoin is created only ONCE and used forever.

So, your argument is invalid.
Sorry!

EDIT: Let's not forget about all the crap that come out of the chimneys of all these plastic product manufacturers.
Seriously, your argument is VERY invalid.

[Come-from-Beyond]

The plastic food container is going to be dumped in the trash and it won't biodegrade for MANY years.
A Bitcoin is created only ONCE and used forever.

So, your argument is invalid.
Sorry!

Hahahahaha. Look people, he throws away plastic food containers! Now I see where u r from and why u don't care about ecology. Btw, I didn't know that African aborigines have Internet connection...

[S4VV4S]

The plastic food container is going to be dumped in the trash and it won't biodegrade for MANY years.
A Bitcoin is created only ONCE and used forever.

So, your argument is invalid.
Sorry!

Hahahahaha. Look people, he throws away plastic food containers! Now I see where u r from and why u don't care about ecology. Btw, I didn't know that African aborigines have Internet connection...

OH wise and funny hero member.

Do you keep all the crap that your take away food has been served in?
And if you do, do you actually have real dishes in your house, or did that technology not come to your village yet?

BTW I am a CYPRIOT aboriginal and guess what?
We have the worlds first Bitcoin bank and many retail stores that you can use your bitcoins directly to buy stuff.

No shit, check it out:
http://www.coindesk.com/bank-like-bitcoin-portal-neo-opens-first-branch-cyprus/
http://www.neo-bee.com/en/

So tell me Oh wise and much funny hero member,
First,
Do you have internet connection?
If you do please visit Bitcoin.org and do some research.
Once you do that then you can come here and post shit about Bitcoin.

Second,
Where do you live?
I live in a "shitty" island yet I have far more technology available here then where you are located (I am guessing).

Third:
How is your plan going?
Did you manage to get any "cheap" coins?

PS: I was about to go to bed and hit the ignore button for once since I joined here.
But, I would really love to take you on, on this

OH WISE AND FUNNY HERO MEMBER.

PS 2: You should know that there are many African aboriginals that make more money than you using the internet.
And yes they have internet!!!!!

And who would have guess that a little "shit-hole" like Cyprus would go where others didn't.

[warpio]

Bitcoin's not a waste of energy at all. Think about it. How much power do you think every single bank facility and banking-related office building in the world uses up each day?

I'd wager if you were to see a direct comparison between the total daily power consumption of Bitcoin's PoW and the average daily power consumption of, say, Goldman Sachs... you would then find the statement "Bitcoin's PoW is a waste of energy" completely laughable.

[Joshuar]

It is insane to waste energy on mining bitcoin in the age of peak oil where greedy energy companies destroy nature for profit.
Right now all bitcoin miners consume the amount of the energy produced by an average US nuclear power plant (30 million KwH/day), or the total oil production of Phillipines (12,000 barrels of oil per day)

The mining of bitcoin uses PoW (Proof of Work) to secure the network, which leads to an exponential growth of energy spent on mining.
All miners compete against each other and must increase mining power (energy usage) to increase their chance of being rewarded in the mining process.

But there are other models to secure a crypto currency without the need to waste energy: The security model of PoS (Proof of Stake) relies instead of the ownership of coins.
The reason is simple: the more coins you own, the less is the risk that you wish to damage the coin for short term profit, since you would lose the value of your current holdings.

So I hope Bitcoin evolves and starts to use PoS, or similar methods to save energy and save the nature.


Sources:

Proof of Stake
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Proof_of_Stake

Bitcoin Mining Uses $15 Million's Worth Of Electricity Every Day
http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2013/12/03/fascinating-number-bitcoin-mining-uses-15-millions-worth-of-electricity-every-day/

How much electricity does a typical nuclear power plant generate?
http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=104&t=21

List of countries by oil production
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_oil_production

Canada, before and after tar sand mining:

Totally agree, Bitcoin is like Myspace, there'll come a cryptocurrency that'll totally obliterate Bitcoin from the markets. Soon.
All everyone in this thread is doing, is comparing Bitcoin to other things such as how much electricity is used by banks etc etc, Stop comparing and realize that Bitcoin is just Contributing to the problem... Really guys..this makes me loose faith in humanity lol.

[S4VV4S]

It is insane to waste energy on mining bitcoin in the age of peak oil where greedy energy companies destroy nature for profit.
Right now all bitcoin miners consume the amount of the energy produced by an average US nuclear power plant (30 million KwH/day), or the total oil production of Phillipines (12,000 barrels of oil per day)

The mining of bitcoin uses PoW (Proof of Work) to secure the network, which leads to an exponential growth of energy spent on mining.
All miners compete against each other and must increase mining power (energy usage) to increase their chance of being rewarded in the mining process.

But there are other models to secure a crypto currency without the need to waste energy: The security model of PoS (Proof of Stake) relies instead of the ownership of coins.
The reason is simple: the more coins you own, the less is the risk that you wish to damage the coin for short term profit, since you would lose the value of your current holdings.

So I hope Bitcoin evolves and starts to use PoS, or similar methods to save energy and save the nature.


Sources:

Proof of Stake
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Proof_of_Stake

Bitcoin Mining Uses $15 Million's Worth Of Electricity Every Day
http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2013/12/03/fascinating-number-bitcoin-mining-uses-15-millions-worth-of-electricity-every-day/

How much electricity does a typical nuclear power plant generate?
http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=104&t=21

List of countries by oil production
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_oil_production

Canada, before and after tar sand mining:

Totally agree, Bitcoin is like Myspace, there'll come a cryptocurrency that'll totally obliterate Bitcoin from the markets. Soon.
All everyone in this thread is doing, is comparing Bitcoin to other things such as how much electricity is used by banks etc etc, Stop comparing and realize that Bitcoin is just Contributing to the problem... Really guys..this makes me loose faith in humanity lol.

Great!
Go about your way then and leave us morals waste our money and time on Bitcoin.

[Come-from-Beyond]

Do you keep all the crap that your take away food has been served in?

No of coz, but I don't throw it away. It's recycled.

PS: I didn't read the rest, too many letters.

[Come-from-Beyond]

Bitcoin's not a waste of energy at all. Think about it. How much power do you think every single bank facility and banking-related office building in the world uses up each day?

I'd wager if you were to see a direct comparison between the total daily power consumption of Bitcoin's PoW and the average daily power consumption of, say, Goldman Sachs... you would then find the statement "Bitcoin's PoW is a waste of energy" completely laughable.

Argument that if one shit requires a lot of electricity then Bitcoin is not a waste of energy is quite... illogical.

[Adrian-x]

Do you keep all the crap that your take away food has been served in?

No of coz, but I don't throw it away. It's recycled.

It should more accurately be called down cycled. All plastic products provided they don't pollute the environment end up in land fill. Paper is not much better.

Aluminium is the only consumer material to be effectively recycled. Glass too provided it is cleaned and not re-manufactured

[FalconFly]

Do you keep all the crap that your take away food has been served in?

No of coz, but I don't throw it away. It's recycled.

It should more accurately be called down cycled. All plastic products provided they don't pollute the environment end up in land fill. Paper is not much better.

Aluminium is the only consumer material to be effectively recycled. Glass too provided it is cleaned and not re-manufactured

Land fills are used for these resources only in low-tech countries.
Recycled or Re-used materials in the modern world : Paper, all types of metals, glass, electronic components, biogegradable materials

If I take my personal "trash" for an example (Germany, 1 Person), I'd have difficulties filling one typical household indoor trashcan in less than two weeks, >95% of materials go into recycling containers.
The true disposable trash also goes through rudimentary recycling (usually focussing on recovery of metal) before being disposed (majority burned at disposal sites at extreme temps, exhaust gases go through advanced filters, heat taken to generate either electricity or heats a near town).
Biodegradable trash goes into sites generating energy & heat from the composting reaction and extract biogas as fuel.