NO PROOF MtGox is insolvent - Document possibly a Hoax? - STOP THE FUD!

[bitfreak!]

The very fact that they removed the word insolvent indicates they have no solid evidence that they are insolvent either.

The very fact that they used such wording in the first place indicates they had good reason to believe they were insolvent. The fact they removed it could simply be a move to minimize panic.

That, to me, does not automatically imply they are insolvent. Companies get acquired all the time while still solvent.

It does not prove it, but it certainly implies it, very strongly.

Not disputing that but buying a new domain and re-branding also does not tell us anything other than the fact they are re-branding.

It tells us that the document in question was correct about its prediction that Mt. Gox would attempt to rebrand themselves as "Gox" and that very much lends to the credibility of the document.

I don't see how it could be a legitimate document with numbers that cannot be trusted.

Like I said, it could have been created by someone with inside knowledge about Mt. Gox, and they used that knowledge about the rebranding and other things to make the document seem legit, whilst at the same time forging the numbers to create a panic.

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[mgroenouwe]

Cannot emphasize enough how huge this is for bitcoin adoption going forward.  Those who simply want gox to die are missing the big picture.  If gox customers are ultimately cheated, there will be a sell-off, but it probably won't be that big as some of this is already factored in.  Many in the public as well as companies, hell even the media, were starting to talk about bitcoin in a positive way.  They will turn and run in a heartbeat - they haven't yet bc technically no one has yet been cheated - they and we are all waiting to see what happens.  All the "I told you bitcoin was dangerous (or a fraud)" will be out in full force.  Media will be brutal and gov regulation will come down like a hammer.  Bitcoin's adoption will stop cold in its tracks, and the public, which was always worried about security, will say "no thanks, I don't need this product that badly"  and bitcoin will unfortunately grind down slowly to nothing for many many years to come

+1000

[quone17]

The Mt. Gox homepage was not loading, although no error message appeared. Its source code contained a line saying, "put announce for mtgox acq here."  That's from yahoo news.  I wonder if that means Gox is being acquired?

Also, I think Gox SHOULD be sued.  That will help matters because it will put everything in the open.  It will also lend credibility, however slim, to Bitcoin because you can get legal redress if someone steals your coins.

[leopard2]

Cannot emphasize enough how huge this is for bitcoin adoption going forward.  Those who simply want gox to die are missing the big picture.  If gox customers are ultimately cheated, there will be a sell-off, but it probably won't be that big as some of this is already factored in.  Many in the public as well as companies, hell even the media, were starting to talk about bitcoin in a positive way.  They will turn and run in a heartbeat - they haven't yet bc technically no one has yet been cheated - they and we are all waiting to see what happens.  All the "I told you bitcoin was dangerous (or a fraud)" will be out in full force.  Media will be brutal and gov regulation will come down like a hammer.  Bitcoin's adoption will stop cold in its tracks, and the public, which was always worried about security, will say "no thanks, I don't need this product that badly"  and bitcoin will unfortunately grind down slowly to nothing for many many years to come

+1000

I disagree. It is regulations fault that there are so few exchanges. It is regulations fault that BTC cannot freely be traded for cash or cash deposits, which would be the absolutely safest method.

Without regulations there would be bitcoin trader cafes everywhere, with security in place and cash checking machines, maybe even in banks? The safest trading is  p2p cash for btc, in a trusted environment.

Regulations are the reason why your bank is not offering BTC as a foreign currency or a commodity, right via online banking.

It is 100% the fault of regulators what is happening here, and 100% their intention.

[btcusury]

Did nobody notice that the document is written the same way (by a German) as the mtgoxtakeover website?

[rograz]

If there is one thing that speaks against the document more than anything else it's the extreme amount of BTC lost that is claimed. I highly doubt that gox had that in total deposits these days unless they had A LOT of unused btc sitting around in old accounts.

I can't remember if gox disclosed how many coins they had in deposits back in 2011 when they got hacked, but iirc people were throwing 4-600k figures around on the high end and that was when BTC was 10% of current value and gox had 95%+ of the exchange market.

I do however think that they could potentially have lost 1/10th of the stated value, the withdraw queue was pushing above 70k I think towards the end with around 10% of transactions making it. Even this is a extreme case however since it only takes 1 double spent input to make a transaction invalid and most gox withdraws could contain 5+ even at low amounts.

Also if they had 740k in total deposits, the withdraw queue before they halted withdraws would have been A LOT bigger. You really think only 10% of total deposits tried to get out during the last week of withdraws? The numbers simply does not check out.

[pan0ramic]

The offices are empty and the CEO is no where to be found.

That's not really how a solvent company acts.

http://news.yahoo.com/bitcoin-exchange-mt-gox-39-website-down-053727771--sector.html

[zhangweiwu]

The document in question does not look at all professional to me

Does MtGox look professional to you? If not, why do you expect their document professional?

[rograz]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/02/25/bitcoin-mtgox-ceo-idUSL1N0LU12G20140225

Seems he hasn't jumped out a window at least.

[not.you]

Mt.Gox support site has been deleted ... and the subdomain is now available for anyone to take !??!

No help desk at support.mtgox.com

There is no help desk configured at this address. This means that the address is available and that you can claim it at http://www.zendesk.com/signup/

Despite what the landing page may say, subdomains are never available for anyone to take.  You don't register a subdomain with a registrar, you simply make DNS pointers to the webhost and since only the main domain registrant can legitimately create DNS entries for that domain and all subdomains they are the ones who control where the subdomain lands.  

[shadyz]

Cannot emphasize enough how huge this is for bitcoin adoption going forward.  Those who simply want gox to die are missing the big picture.  If gox customers are ultimately cheated, there will be a sell-off, but it probably won't be that big as some of this is already factored in.  Many in the public as well as companies, hell even the media, were starting to talk about bitcoin in a positive way.  They will turn and run in a heartbeat - they haven't yet bc technically no one has yet been cheated - they and we are all waiting to see what happens.  All the "I told you bitcoin was dangerous (or a fraud)" will be out in full force.  Media will be brutal and gov regulation will come down like a hammer.  Bitcoin's adoption will stop cold in its tracks, and the public, which was always worried about security, will say "no thanks, I don't need this product that badly"  and bitcoin will unfortunately grind down slowly to nothing for many many years to come

+1000

+450 000 0000

 Bitcoin regulation and destruction is coming. I don't care what you've heard about "5 stages of grief" or buy on the low or whatever. Sure it might go down and then its probably going to spike up and we might see 10 000$ again in 6 months. But i am not ever trusting the community if this doesnt get fixed.

[Totscha]

The document in question does not look at all professional to me

Does MtGox look professional to you? If not, why do you expect their document professional?

^ This! ^

[leopard2]

sadly, the media didn't call the USD a fraud or ponzi scheme during the financial crisis in 2008, even after Lehman collapsed, the underlying root cause, money based on debt, was not brought up  

[RodeoX]

Anyone trading on mysterious documents and rumors is a fool and will soon be parted from their money. Honestly people, a guy named "two-bit idiot" produces a leaked internal draft that looks like a 3rd. grader made it, and it makes the NY Times! There are so many things wrong with this.

• Who was it written for? It seems to be an internal document, but speaks to an external audience.
• It does not appear to me (untrained) to be consistent with the known writing of Mark K., so who wrote it?
  
• Why is it denominated in a foreign currency?
• Why is there a page that looks like a balance sheet but is completely redacted? Why include it?
  
  I could go on.  Oh well, your fear is someone's gain.

[rograz]

I could go on.  Oh well, your fear is someone's gain. [/li][/list]

This is the very essence of it. Had it been all negative fud being spread around I could to some degree have bought it. But rather it has been a consistent cycle of spreading fear/hope via various channels and that just look to me like someone moving the market at their own accord taking advantage of MTgox unwillingness/inability to communicate (not exactly the first time they act like a muted wall) It is quite likely that they have been gagged by their lawyers (especially if their legal council is from Japan, you don't admit failures over there in the corporate world unless it's unavoidable).

[hilariousandco]

It seems like everyone is running round like like lunatics declaring MtGox is insolvent and dead without any solid proof. I am not saying this may not the case but lets at least wait for a solid bit of evidence - either an announcement from MtGox or proof that the document going around claiming MtGox lost 700,000+ BTC is real. Otherwise we are shooting ourselves in the foot. The media is and will have a field day on these claims and if later they prove to be false the short term damage will have already been done.

Yeah, I agree. People don't realise they're part of the problem when they spread this FUD without any concrete evidence. They complain about the price falling, but it wouldn't fall if it wasn't for the FUD spreaders and panic sellers.

judging by mtgox's latest actions they are pointing to insolvency

i believe they have been insolvent since their usd cash withdrawl problems

mark karpeles probally just wanted to buy time and blame transaction malleability

They very well might become insolvent / bankrupt, but speculating on this and what really happened based on little evidence or hunches isn't helping.

[iikun]

gox lives?
on their site now!

Dear MtGox Customers,

In the event of recent news reports and the potential repercussions on MtGox's operations and the market, a decision was taken to close all transactions for the time being in order to protect the site and our users. We will be closely monitoring the situation and will react accordingly.

Best regards,
MtGox Team

[Lauda]

gox lives?
on their site now!

Dear MtGox Customers,

In the event of recent news reports and the potential repercussions on MtGox's operations and the market, a decision was taken to close all transactions for the time being in order to protect the site and our users. We will be closely monitoring the situation and will react accordingly.

Best regards,
MtGox Team

Like they have been monitoring the situation over the years - while they lost the customers funds?
They aren't doing anything.

[btcusury]

Anyone trading on mysterious documents and rumors is a fool and will soon be parted from their money. Honestly people, a guy named "two-bit idiot" produces a leaked internal draft that looks like a 3rd. grader made it, and it makes the NY Times! There are so many things wrong with this.

• Who was it written for? It seems to be an internal document, but speaks to an external audience.
• It does not appear to me (untrained) to be consistent with the known writing of Mark K., so who wrote it?
  
• Why is it denominated in a foreign currency?
• Why is there a page that looks like a balance sheet but is completely redacted? Why include it?
  
  I could go on.  Oh well, your fear is someone's gain.

I agree, it doesn't pass the first smell test. Its writing style suggests non-English, maybe German or Russian. Although there are no obvious give-aways like incorrectly capitalized nouns, the tone and style is reminiscent of the mtgoxtakeover website.

[T.Stuart]

The document is the purest bullshit I have ever seen.

I am strongly suspicious of Two Bit Idiot, the blogger who released it. He claimed to have verified the figures with "multiple sources" close to Gox:

1. But then why for weeks since the malleability bug or even months/years has none of this come out, and then all of a sudden Two Bit Idiot has an internal document and "multiple sources"?
2. And why when the document is so clearly fake it's laughable has it been confirmed by "multiple sources"?

It's no secret that some apparently knew (Charlie Shrem for example) over the past couple of days at least that Gox is moving towards acquisition, so someone has cobbled together this bullshit visibly hastily.

And it was immediately pumped by Coindesk. They need to look into things properly.