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bitcoinminer
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February 26, 2014, 04:28:32 PM |
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It's a bit of a mute point
Moot point. Sorry. This drives me nuts. |
Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful.
-Warren Buffett
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bitcoinminer
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February 26, 2014, 04:39:53 PM |
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Moot point. Sorry. This drives me nuts.
That's quite a pacific thing to get annoyed about if you ask me. You could of just ignored it. Technicality speaking, your correct. |
Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful.
-Warren Buffett
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BitCoinNutJob
Legendary
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Activity: 1316
Merit: 1000
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February 26, 2014, 05:08:19 PM |
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T.Stuart
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February 26, 2014, 05:51:57 PM |
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Moot point. Sorry. This drives me nuts.
That's quite a pacific thing to get annoyed about if you ask me. You could of just ignored it. No itz alright. Thanx bitconminor!!  (Moot, moot, moot....) |
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bitcoinminer
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February 26, 2014, 05:59:11 PM |
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Moot point. Sorry. This drives me nuts.
That's quite a pacific thing to get annoyed about if you ask me. You could of just ignored it. No itz alright. Thanx bitconminor!! (Moot, moot, moot....) I'm one of those grammar Nazis that just stops reading whatever the debate is as soon as I see elementary spelling and grammar errors. It's a heavy burden. |
Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful.
-Warren Buffett
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pontiacg5
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February 26, 2014, 06:04:20 PM |
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I'm one of those grammar Nazis that just stops reading whatever the debate is as soon as I see elementary spelling and grammar errors. It's a heavy burden.
... Technicality speaking, your correct.
Fail. |
Please DO NOT send me private messages asking for help setting up GPU miners. I will not respond!!!
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SlidingHorn
Full Member
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Activity: 196
Merit: 100
★Bitvest.io★ Play Plinko or Invest!
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February 26, 2014, 06:07:15 PM |
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I'm one of those grammar Nazis that just stops reading whatever the debate is as soon as I see elementary spelling and grammar errors. It's a heavy burden.
... Technicality speaking, your correct.
Fail. He was going with the joke.. Humor awareness fail  |
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bitcoinminer
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February 26, 2014, 06:15:00 PM |
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I'm tempted to send him a message asking for help setting up a GPU miner...
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Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful.
-Warren Buffett
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pontiacg5
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February 26, 2014, 06:23:01 PM |
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I'm tempted to send him a message asking for help setting up a GPU miner...
Wouldn't be the first, nor the last |
Please DO NOT send me private messages asking for help setting up GPU miners. I will not respond!!!
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Nagle
Legendary
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Activity: 1204
Merit: 1000
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February 26, 2014, 06:25:11 PM |
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Who is Daniel J. Kelman?
Good question. He has an entry in Martindale-Hubble, the legal directory, but it doesn't give a firm. He's in New York; admitted to the bar in 2011. Went to Brooklyn Law School. One source has him listed at Robinson Brog, an NYC firm, but he's not on their current attorney list. So he's not a prominent or experienced attorney. |
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bitcoinminer
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February 26, 2014, 06:25:26 PM |
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Why not help people set them up and just link it to your own mining account? lol "Here use this config file"
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Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful.
-Warren Buffett
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bitcoinminer
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February 26, 2014, 06:25:51 PM |
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Who is Daniel J. Kelman?
Good question. He has an entry in Martindale-Hubble, the legal directory, but it doesn't give a firm. He's in New York; admitted to the bar in 2011. Went to Brooklyn Law School. One source has him listed at Robinson Brog, an NYC firm, but he's not on their current attorney list. So he's not a prominent or experienced attorney. He works on BTC IOU's lol |
Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful.
-Warren Buffett
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Bobsurplus
Legendary
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Activity: 1008
Merit: 1000
Making money since I was in the womb! @emc2whale
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February 26, 2014, 06:28:21 PM |
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I dont know about you all, but I do want to see Mark locked up. He has been allowing people to trade on his defunked site for months knowing full well that they dont have the cash or BTC to cover the trades. Off with his head!  |
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T.Stuart
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February 26, 2014, 06:35:17 PM |
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I dont know about you all, but I do want to see Mark locked up. He has been allowing people to trade on his defunked site for months knowing full well that they dont have the cash or BTC to cover the trades. Off with his head! Read this: http://jesse.forthewin.com/blog/2014/02/unilateral-statement-regarding-fucked-up-shit-and-the-greater-good.htmlScroll to near bottom and read the propositions, point 1. Gox was robbed of a massive amount of coins (800k+) at some prior point in time, possibly June 2011, and has been operating a fractional reserve since.If everything was stolen in 2011, then we could possibly see a massive cover up unveiled, involving more people than just Karpeles. I fail to see how only he would notice the theft of 800k coins. |
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Bobsurplus
Legendary
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Activity: 1008
Merit: 1000
Making money since I was in the womb! @emc2whale
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February 26, 2014, 06:37:49 PM |
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I dont know about you all, but I do want to see Mark locked up. He has been allowing people to trade on his defunked site for months knowing full well that they dont have the cash or BTC to cover the trades. Off with his head! Read this: http://jesse.forthewin.com/blog/2014/02/unilateral-statement-regarding-fucked-up-shit-and-the-greater-good.htmlScroll to near bottom and read the propositions, point 1. Gox was robbed of a massive amount of coins (800k+) at some prior point in time, possibly June 2011, and has been operating a fractional reserve since.If everything was stolen in 2011, then we could possibly see a massive cover up unveiled, involving more people than just Karpeles. I fail to see how only he would notice the theft of 800k coins. Already did a few minutes ago. Its clear to me that something criminal has been going on at Mtgox for a while and like you said, its most probably involving many other people.. not just Mark, I would not be surprised if the foundation was involved. |
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JorgeStolfi
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February 26, 2014, 06:44:43 PM |
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This plan is intriguing. Are there any antecedents? Examples of failed companies that were taken over by co-ops of their former retail clients?
I see two problems with this plan:
* If there is going to be a haircut on withdrawals, any BTC or USD in the accounts is worth only a fraction of their nominal value. Suppose MtGOX's current assets are only 20% of the total balance of their clients' accounts: then the exit haircut would have to be 80%, so having 100 BTC and 2000 USD in your account is the same as having 20 BTC and 400 USD elsewhere.
In that case, the inverse haircut would have to be applied on deposits: if someone brings in 20 BTC, he should have 100 BTC credited to his account. (Otherwise only naive investors would deposit, and they would lose 80% of their money when they did that. It would be a scam, pure and simple.)
But then, if one had haircuts on exit and their inverse ("wigs"?) on entry, the clients would be trading fictitious goxBTC and goxUSD that are worth 20% of their real counterpats. What would be the point of that?
It would be more sensible to take the haircut right away, that is, all current account balances are reduced to 20%. The net effect would be the same, but your balance at the new MtGOX would be in real BTC and real USD, not in fictitioulsy inflated goxBTC and goxUSD.
* Some clients may choose to sue MtGOX for their whole balance in real USD, instead of joining your plan that effectively haircuts 80% of it. If the lawsuit suceeds, the fact that the company has new owners will make no difference, and money would be subtracted in full from its assets, before these are distributed among the new owners.
Uttimately, 80% of the money recovered by litigating clients would have to come out of the balances of the clients who joined the plan. Thus the haircut of the latter would end up being more than 80%.
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Academic interest in bitcoin only. Not owner, not trader, very skeptical of its longterm success.
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Nagle
Legendary
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Activity: 1204
Merit: 1000
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February 26, 2014, 07:37:30 PM |
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This plan is intriguing. Are there any antecedents? Examples of failed companies that were taken over by co-ops of their former retail clients? It's not unusual for a company to be taken over by its creditors and restructured with the creditors holding equity. It's rare when the creditors are small and numerous. There's one famous historical success - Volkswagen AG. Volkswagen was originally financed, during WWII, by German civilians pre-paying for cars that were never built. After the war, those car buyers got stock in Volkswagen AG. This worked out very, very well for those who held onto the stock for a decade or more. But that's a manufacturing company. Mt. Gox, as a business, doesn't do much. They have no manufacturing plants, no large skilled workforce, and, at this point, no active customers and negative brand value. So the value of Mt. Gox as an ongoing business is very low, and there's little value in keeping the business going. What matters is recovering the assets, cash and Bitcoins, they have left, before the people who created this mess squander them. |
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joehal
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Activity: 93
Merit: 10
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February 26, 2014, 07:46:32 PM |
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Wouldn't be unfair that 5% of the users will get their full share back (just because they sued) and the rest not ?
As far as I remember things don't go like this : Company x with 100 users goes bankrupt. 2 users have layers and sue and get their money back and the rest of the 98 get nothing.
I think in cases like these the company is forced by a judge to issue a statement on their website like : All the users affected should contact us for a refund.. Or something like that.
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joehal
Member
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February 26, 2014, 07:51:44 PM |
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Mt. Gox, as a business, doesn't do much. They have no manufacturing plants, no large skilled workforce, and, at this point, no active customers and negative brand value. So the value of Mt. Gox as an ongoing business is very low, and there's little value in keeping the business going. What matters is recovering the assets, cash and Bitcoins, they have left, before the people who created this mess squander them.
This could be an opportunity to build and have a bitcoin exchange like no other. With full transparency, audited by trusted inspectors appointed by an elected committee ..and so on, governed by rules selected by all the shareholders (thousands of users) |
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BitCoinNutJob
Legendary
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Activity: 1316
Merit: 1000
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February 26, 2014, 07:55:10 PM |
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This plan is intriguing. Are there any antecedents? Examples of failed companies that were taken over by co-ops of their former retail clients? It's not unusual for a company to be taken over by its creditors and restructured with the creditors holding equity. It's rare when the creditors are small and numerous. There's one famous historical success - Volkswagen AG. Volkswagen was originally financed, during WWII, by German civilians pre-paying for cars that were never built. After the war, those car buyers got stock in Volkswagen AG. This worked out very, very well for those who held onto the stock for a decade or more. But that's a manufacturing company. Mt. Gox, as a business, doesn't do much. They have no manufacturing plants, no large skilled workforce, and, at this point, no active customers and negative brand value. So the value of Mt. Gox as an ongoing business is very low, and there's little value in keeping the business going. What matters is recovering the assets, cash and Bitcoins, they have left, before the people who created this mess squander them. Fulltiltpoker is almost a carbon copy of this case except they were flat broke, at least gox has 20 mil |
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