Is There Any Hope Left?

[Dan The Man]

Bitcoin is dead to for-profit miners, and will stay dead unless the price surges again, in which case it'll be profitable briefly.

False.  My mining operation is still profitable and at the current difficulty, would remain profitable down to around $1/BTC.  Once difficulty readjusts next, my profitability level will be around $0.85/BTC.  Far from dead.

Iceland should switch their national economy over to mining bitcoins. Their money is close to worthless anyways and they have the cheapest electricity in the world.

[Revalin]

False.  My mining operation is still profitable and at the current difficulty, would remain profitable down to around $1/BTC.  Once difficulty readjusts next, my profitability level will be around $0.85/BTC.  Far from dead.

I agree it's not completely dead.  That was said in context of another thread, and it was a bit of an oversimplification and exaggeration.

Most likely it will always be at least marginally profitable for you if you carefully plan your rigs for efficiency and you have inexpensive power, but the days where anyone could just pick up a couple Radeons and start shaking out coins worth well above their costs are over.  You can't do it on residential power in Hawaii or California no matter what hardware you have!

[Mageant]

I see the current situation as a good opportunity for people to get near early adopter prices for Bitcoin.

Besides that, the technology is sound and improving everyday.

Remember, it took quite a few years before a significant number started using the Internet. The same for cell phones. It just takes time a for a new technology to be adopted. Not everybody sees the advantages right away. Considering that, Bitcoin is still quite young with less than 3 years of age.

[Revalin]

I see the current situation as a good opportunity for people to get near early adopter prices for Bitcoin.

...  and thus the cycle begins again.  This is exactly why I don't like the deflationary model.

[Mageant]

I see the current situation as a good opportunity for people to get near early adopter prices for Bitcoin.

...  and thus the cycle begins again.  This is exactly why I don't like the deflationary model.

The deflationary model has a very important social aspect in that it creates interest for Bitcoin before it becomes actually useful as a medium of exchange.

[Brunic]

Yeah, I'm mental because I make profits.  

Dude, I'm making money of mining Bitcoins and selling them. Why should I stop? With these new rigs, I'll just make more money.

Troll, or a complete moron? Cast your votes.

The residential price of electricity in Quebec, Canada is around 60% of the average price of electricity in the US. And the more electricity I consume, the more the price goes down. At a certain point, it's possible to pay 2.97 cents/kwh.

You should inform yourself before insulting people. Google is free of charge you know. Try "Hydro Québec" in Google if you don't believe me.

[Revalin]

The deflationary model has a very important social aspect in that it creates interest for Bitcoin before it becomes actually useful as a medium of exchange.

I know, but I think that scam-avoidance and volatility are hurting us more than the bait-factor is helping.  Perhaps we never would have gotten here without it, but now how do we get past here with it?

[mjcmurfy]

Yeah, I'm mental because I make profits.  

Dude, I'm making money of mining Bitcoins and selling them. Why should I stop? With these new rigs, I'll just make more money.

Troll, or a complete moron? Cast your votes.

The residential price of electricity in Quebec, Canada is around 60% of the average price of electricity in the US. And the more electricity I consume, the more the price goes down. At a certain point, it's possible to pay 2.97 cents/kwh.

You should inform yourself before insulting people. Google is free of charge you know. Try "Hydro Québec" in Google if you don't believe me.

I don't disbelieve you, I'm sure you are telling the truth about Hydro power being relatively inexpensive in Canada. But for all I knew, you could have been a kid clocking up their parent's electricity bill, who doesn't understand that profit is what is left from revenue-expenses. I still don't know that for a fact.

My point was that it is rather silly to invest long-term in mining rigs with fiat currency in order to mine bitcoin so it can be sold for fiat profits when bitcoin can only be exchanged for $2 a coin and decreasing... well, you can see my dilemma.

[BurntSnow]

Yeah, I'm mental because I make profits.  

Dude, I'm making money of mining Bitcoins and selling them. Why should I stop? With these new rigs, I'll just make more money.

Troll, or a complete moron? Cast your votes.

We have to make a new name for him...trolon.



Lovin' the debate. Please continue, I feed off of threads like these.

[TiagoTiago]

Of course there is hope, we're still around, aren't we?

[Revalin]

Only until Despair.  Then we're going to board the place up.

[Deafboy]

Mining stopped to be profitable for me yesterday. I made some calculations and find out that it costs 31eur to mine 24/7 in 1 month. I can earn 28 to 30 eur in current price...
And guess what? I'm not going to stop.

[fivebells]

Hope and fear keep people from seeing things clearly.  I'm just continuing to watch.

[Steve]

I see the current situation as a good opportunity for people to get near early adopter prices for Bitcoin.

Early adopter prices would be more like $0.05.  I doubt very much we'll get anywhere near that level.

[Gyom]

Due diligence. People who bought at 30$ should Google that up.

If you want to invest in something, you have to do your own research, free of bias, and come up with your own idea of what the value of something really is. Next compare to the market price, factor in liquidity, risk, and so forth. Determine how much you are willing to lose, based on your confidence in your own valuation metrics.

Do that, and you will make money trading.

Don't, and you are the only one to blame.

The USD value of bitcoins themselves is irrelevant. What's valuable is the infrastructure around it... Money (currencies, gold, bitcoins, etc...) is just a way to measure the value of products and services. How are you helping anyone by sitting on your ass holding bitcoins in hopes of getting rich? Get to work kids!

Please read on Austrian economics and stay away from the Keynesian bullshit and you might end up getting that and start making good financial decisions... you'll thank me later

[Brunic]

I don't disbelieve you, I'm sure you are telling the truth about Hydro power being relatively inexpensive in Canada. But for all I knew, you could have been a kid clocking up their parent's electricity bill, who doesn't understand that profit is what is left from revenue-expenses. I still don't know that for a fact.

My point was that it is rather silly to invest long-term in mining rigs with fiat currency in order to mine bitcoin so it can be sold for fiat profits when bitcoin can only be exchanged for $2 a coin and decreasing... well, you can see my dilemma.

Yeah, I see your point there. Don't worry, I've been an entrepreneur for a couple of years now, I know what I'm talking about. It's just....I don't know, I have a Bitcoin start-up business, like you have a Bitcoin start-up business also. It's simply that I'm doing mining, while your doing torrent service. How would you feel if I came from nowhere, telling that you're a troll or a moron for doing torrent services?

My point is, currently, producing a Bitcoin cost me around 1.25$(didn't calculated with the last difficulty drop, so it could be lower). They are currently sold at 2.50 $CAN. My margin of profit is 50%. Why would I pay 2.50$ to have a Bitcoin when I can produce them at half the price?

[Troll Toll]

Yeah, I'm mental because I make profits.  

Dude, I'm making money of mining Bitcoins and selling them. Why should I stop? With these new rigs, I'll just make more money.

Troll, or a complete moron? Cast your votes.

The residential price of electricity in Quebec, Canada is around 60% of the average price of electricity in the US. And the more electricity I consume, the more the price goes down. At a certain point, it's possible to pay 2.97 cents/kwh.

You should inform yourself before insulting people. Google is free of charge you know. Try "Hydro Québec" in Google if you don't believe me.

I don't disbelieve you, I'm sure you are telling the truth about Hydro power being relatively inexpensive in Canada. But for all I knew, you could have been a kid clocking up their parent's electricity bill, who doesn't understand that profit is what is left from revenue-expenses. I still don't know that for a fact.

My point was that it is rather silly to invest long-term in mining rigs with fiat currency in order to mine bitcoin so it can be sold for fiat profits when bitcoin can only be exchanged for $2 a coin and decreasing... well, you can see my dilemma.

Mining is still profitable for me as well. Still will be for awhile. And I own my own house and pay my own electricity bills. Your myopia actually is suggesting you are more of a troll than others that are stating their mining / electricity cost unique situations.

I invested in july, to see prices plummet, and I regret nothing! I've got a shit ton of hardware I can always sell on ebay if need be. only invest what you are willing to lose, and I'm still winning.

[BTCHosting]

I see the current situation as a good opportunity for people to get near early adopter prices for Bitcoin.

...  and thus the cycle begins again.  This is exactly why I don't like the deflationary model.

The deflationary model has a very important social aspect in that it creates interest for Bitcoin before it becomes actually useful as a medium of exchange.

I like your point.

Anyhow as said elsewhere many times, we need to build a Bitcoin Economy if we want a stable Bitcoin.

The nice part is that a stable Bitcoin is not needed to start a Bitcoin Economy, even though it is very benefical to it. Sellers can immediately convert the Bitcoin, and stay safe of the exchange rate, while still contributing to the Bitcoin Economy by creating a flow of value.

What we really need is to stop is Bitcoin Robberies. Everytime a Hacker get his hands on a large ammount of Bitcoin, the value plummet along with trust and credibility.

A currency not backed up by an army is a very big challange...

[FormerlyAnonymous]

I see the current situation as a good opportunity for people to get near early adopter prices for Bitcoin.

...  and thus the cycle begins again.  This is exactly why I don't like the deflationary model.

The deflationary model has a very important social aspect in that it creates interest for Bitcoin before it becomes actually useful as a medium of exchange.

I like your point.

Yeah, that's pretty smart, I never thought of it like that before.

However Revalin's point is good too.  If you look at just about any thread of economic history, the biggest bubble/crash cycles often seem to arise out of circumstances where some prominent and well-known quality of the bubble asset leads to an easy conclusion that the asset's value will substantially appreciate in the long run.

What we really need is to stop is Bitcoin Robberies. Everytime a Hacker get his hands on a large ammount of Bitcoin, the value plummet along with trust and credibility.

A currency not backed up by an army is a very big challange...

+1.  I literally suspect that a massive international government crackdown would have been better tolerated  by the bitcoin economy (or maybe I'm wrong and this is it  )

Also it probably doesn't help that scammers have to unload their coins on the market to realize any benefit.

[norulezapply]

@Brunic - I have no idea why you are buying more rigs now when it's surely far cheaper and faster to buy the coins outright.

You must be mental.

Yeah, I'm mental because I make profits.  

Dude, I'm making money of mining Bitcoins and selling them. Why should I stop? With these new rigs, I'll just make more money.

Because instead of MINING bitcoins, you can just BUY bitcoins.
At the moment prices are less than the cost to mine them, or about the same.
Not to mention that buying bitcoins instead of inflating the currency more by mining them will help to drive the price up further.
It ain't June anymore son.