Gox have at least 200k BTC - lost keys or GAG ORDER most likely not theft

[jatajuta]

This is an IRC conversation on 2011 when people asked Mark Karpeles to prove if he owned the coins on his exchange.

Start of #mtgox buffer: Thu Jun 23 01:57:23 2011
* Now talking in #mtgox
* Topic is 'Mt.Gox - Official channel - https://support.mtgox.com/entries/20208066-huge-bitcoin-sell-off-due-to-a-compromised-account-rollback - Official announcement in the next hours announcing time at which site will be back (at least 24h from announce). Recoveries will be processed during those 24h - Trading will resume 1h after site opening'
* Set by MagicalTux on Wed Jun 22 16:28:08


<MagicalTux> go1dfish: I'll send 424242.42424242 bitcoins from a bunch of 50kBTC addresses (and maybe on 42kBTC) to one
<MagicalTux> well, two actually
<MagicalTux> one will get the 424k, the other one will get the change
<go1dfish> ok, yeah all transactions get split that way as I understand it
<MagicalTux> ready guys? Don't come after me claiming we have no coins after that
<MagicalTux> hopefully I'll be able to work without getting too much disturbed after that~
<go1dfish> yeah, ready
<nanotube> MagicalTux: wasn't your last tx 432K btc? lost 8k?
<geist_> no
<geist_> thats just the amount someone suggested
<geist_> (the 424242)
<nanotube> ah
<MagicalTux> 42 is the answer
<go1dfish> to everything
<sixEch0> 42 is my password!
<noagendamarket> lol
<nanotube> hehe ic
<go1dfish> 42 is the solution to every block to
<mabus> wait what's going on, is he proving he has our bitcoins still?
<go1dfish> shit I just ruined the economy
<mabus> what does this help
<geist_> theres a lot of people crying wolf saying gox doesnt have their btc anymore
<wumpus> don't send them to the bitcoin eater please
<go1dfish> mabus: tux is shuffling large numbers of bitcoins to show they are still under his control
<MagicalTux> anyway, going to send to 1eHhgW6vquBY... the 424242.42424242 btc.

IRC Source: http://pastebin.com/d7vp06hL

BTC Adresses: http://pastebin.com/q4EV1xAc

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1z3cni/proofs_that_gox_have_at_least_200k_btc/

[Dragonkiller]

Losing keys is my worst nightmare

[wobber]

What do you mean lost keys? Isn't Gox using some kind of cold wallet encryption? Maybe they lost that, but not the wallet priv key itself.

[cbutters]

but the address he sent the 424k is now empty....
https://blockchain.info/address/1eHhgW6vquBYhwMPhQ668HPjxTtpvZGPC

what am I missing?

[jatajuta]

but the address he sent the 424k is now empty....
https://blockchain.info/address/1eHhgW6vquBYhwMPhQ668HPjxTtpvZGPC

what am I missing?

http://pastebin.com/q4EV1xAc

[cdooer]

I don't get it, someone please explain in english. Looks like a bunch of transactions from 2011.

[FierceRadish]

I don't get it, someone please explain in english. Looks like a bunch of transactions from 2011.

Agreed. Why the 2011 dates? These IRC chats look very easy to fake.

[cbutters]

So basically what is being said is that these addresses are known mtgox addresses
(Known according to these IRC logs....) Can anyone else confirm somehow that these are known mtgox wallet addresses?
:

50k 1P3S1grZYmcqYDuaEDVDYobJ5Fx85E9fE9 first input: 11/16/2011 05:59:08
40k 1cXNTyXj4xPGopfYZNY5xfSM1EPJJvBZV first input: 11/16/2011 05:59:08
40k 12HddUDLhRP2F8JjpKYeKaDxxt5wUvx5nq first input: 11/16/2011 05:38:46
40k 16Ls6azc76ixc9Ny7AB5ZPPq6oiEL9XwXy first input: 11/16/2011 05:38:46
30k 1MyGwFAJjVtB5rGJa32M6Yh46cGirUta1K first input: 11/16/2011 05:45:03


so basically mtgox has at least 200,000 in their "ownership" but might have lost the private keys for them.

[epetroel]

Yeah, that shows they had it in 2011, but doesn't prove they have squat today.

[cdooer]

So basically what is being said is that these addresses are known mtgox addresses
(Known according to these IRC logs....) Can anyone else confirm somehow that these are known mtgox wallet addresses?
:

50k 1P3S1grZYmcqYDuaEDVDYobJ5Fx85E9fE9 first input: 11/16/2011 05:59:08
40k 1cXNTyXj4xPGopfYZNY5xfSM1EPJJvBZV first input: 11/16/2011 05:59:08
40k 12HddUDLhRP2F8JjpKYeKaDxxt5wUvx5nq first input: 11/16/2011 05:38:46
40k 16Ls6azc76ixc9Ny7AB5ZPPq6oiEL9XwXy first input: 11/16/2011 05:38:46
30k 1MyGwFAJjVtB5rGJa32M6Yh46cGirUta1K first input: 11/16/2011 05:45:03


so basically mtgox has at least 200,000 in their "ownership" but might have lost the private keys for them.

Ahh, I see. Thanks.

[cbutters]

Yeah, that shows they had it in 2011, but doesn't prove they have squat today.

It does prove that the BTC is owned by mtgox and the BTC is STILL there.... assuming the IRC is not faked. which means the question is:
Does mtgox have the private key for these addresses?

[FierceRadish]

EDIT: Okay, I see what you're saying. These bitcoins are in the same addresses as they were in 2011?

[wobber]

Yeah, that shows they had it in 2011, but doesn't prove they have squat today.

It does prove that the BTC is owned by mtgox and the BTC is STILL there.... assuming the IRC is not faked. which means the question is:
Does mtgox have the private key for these addresses?

I would assume these wallets are being encrypted with different keys. If you do this, I think you're not stupid enough to put the encryption keys in the same place. This makes me to believe access is possible but unavailable. Maybe he put them in safes in banks but cannot access them.

Otherwise, fuck yea... 200k coins lost forever if he lost the keys.

[epetroel]

Yeah, that shows they had it in 2011, but doesn't prove they have squat today.

It does prove that the BTC is owned by mtgox and the BTC is STILL there.... assuming the IRC is not faked. which means the question is:
Does mtgox have the private key for these addresses?

Ahh, gotcha, I misunderstood.

[Dragonkiller]

THIS IS FROM 2011

Even the IRC chat posted is from 2011.

http://pastebin.com/d7vp06hL

This is irrelevant and proves nothing.

You're missing the point

[FierceRadish]

THIS IS FROM 2011

Even the IRC chat posted is from 2011.

http://pastebin.com/d7vp06hL

This is irrelevant and proves nothing.

You're missing the point

I think I've got you now. Interesting...

[joehal]

Whether the bitcoins are lost or not is irrelevant. The fact is Gox has 1 million shareholders which could stand to lose millions. What will they do ? What will they chose ?

[derpinheimer]

Whether the bitcoins are lost or not is irrelevant. The fact is Gox has 1 million shareholders which could stand to lose millions. What will they do ? What will they chose ?

If 750k coins are lost or stolen, there is a 0% chance of getting money back. It would cost >1 billion dollars to acquire those coins. How long would it take them to recoup 1 billion? A long time. Like.. theyll never recoup it.

So, what do they choose? Nothing. Either they have the coins or they dont.





Can someone help me understand the whole wallet encryption thing? I never quite understood it.

[porcupine87]

So mark just could sign this addresses, so there would be proof! The address with the 424242.42424242 transaction is empty now. And really? Sending a unique number is his way to proof he has the coins? pff

Losing keys is my worst nightmare

This would be a sweet headline. "Bitcoins worth mayn millions are simply lost".
-> I think this would be good news. It teaches the people about Bitcoin (ah, there are something called private keys) and about prices (ah supply goes down with same demand is a higher price? Even with money).
And, this would make everyone with coins a little bit richer. The supply would decrease by a few 100 000.

[jatajuta]

Maybe there is another issues we aren't grasping, he is constantly saying about other parties involved.

If there is an US gov investigation which is forcing Mark to cooperate they could issue a gag order, that would explain the silence.

Also depending on where is the cold storage the authorities could very well restrict Karpeles from using them.

It is just thoughts but it would add a little bit of reality on the matter, because it is impossible to lose so much on theft, and nobody stay so quiet while the business you are working so hard crumble to pieces.

What is not being said is what matter the most.

http://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMarkets/comments/1z2xo5/speculation_the_us_government_has_control_of_goxs/