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Author Topic: Venezuela, a fable about socialism. Part 1/2  (Read 340 times)
Spendulus
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August 24, 2018, 12:59:33 AM
Merited by DdmrDdmr (1)
 #21

Definitely what happens in Venezuela is a case study, it is incomprehensible what happens here....

This is not the first time.

The German hyperinflation of 1921-1922 is detailed in an excellent book which is available online, "Dying of Money."

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1959317.Dying_of_Money

There is also a fiction story by a rather famous writer, "The Black Obelisk" about three young guys trying to live in those times.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Black_Obelisk
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August 24, 2018, 03:27:08 PM
 #22

A "funny" fact is that the currency (Bolivar Venezuelan) is currently worth less than the in-game money of the massively multiplayer online role-playing game (MMORPG) by Blizzard Entertainment: World of Warcraft.
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August 24, 2018, 07:26:59 PM
 #23

Irony? I'm going to tell you something, the Monopoly game, part of the principle that up to 8 players can play, and each one will receive 1500 units, and its equivalent must have the bank, so the game, in tickets, has a maximum equivalent of 24,000 units in different denominations. that game is sold in Venezuela for 20,000,000 Bs, so each unit that comes in the game is worth more than a bolivar, so it could be used as a currency in Venezuela.

MBYZ
¦•-»  El verdadero desafío es dar valor real a las monedas /The real challenge is to give real value to the currencies. «-•¦
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August 24, 2018, 07:37:28 PM
 #24

Irony? I'm going to tell you something, the Monopoly game, part of the principle that up to 8 players can play, and each one will receive 1500 units, and its equivalent must have the bank, so the game, in tickets, has a maximum equivalent of 24,000 units in different denominations. that game is sold in Venezuela for 20,000,000 Bs, so each unit that comes in the game is worth more than a bolivar, so it could be used as a currency in Venezuela.

a state consists of two things

a willing active and engaging population and a relatively passive government

in venezuela both parties dont trust each other and dont work with each other, but look for foreigners to help them. so its a form of a broken society.

a huge shame is that venezuelans power now crappy cryptocurrencies like dash with their lives....

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August 24, 2018, 08:02:08 PM
 #25


a state consists of two things

a willing active and engaging population and a relatively passive government

in venezuela both parties dont trust each other and dont work with each other, but look for foreigners to help them. so its a form of a broken society.

a huge shame is that venezuelans power now crappy cryptocurrencies like dash with their lives....

Unfortunately, I do not say that it is the whole society. In Venezuela a saving Messiah is still waiting.

Someone external, come, solve problems, be fast, not cost them and in the end leave them better than they are now.

Everyone aspires for another to come and resolve, but never sacrifice anything.

If we can call that a failed state, well yes it is.

Neither the government is so bad, nor the opposition is so good, in the end, mediocrity is that Venezuela does not finish taking a course, whatever, but that generates at least the necessary calm for the country to develop.

MBYZ
¦•-»  El verdadero desafío es dar valor real a las monedas /The real challenge is to give real value to the currencies. «-•¦
¦ [Website] | [Telegram] | [Whitepaper] | [Youtube] | [Bitcointalk ANN] | [Instagram]
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August 24, 2018, 08:04:36 PM
 #26


a state consists of two things

a willing active and engaging population and a relatively passive government

in venezuela both parties dont trust each other and dont work with each other, but look for foreigners to help them. so its a form of a broken society.

a huge shame is that venezuelans power now crappy cryptocurrencies like dash with their lives....

Unfortunately, I do not say that it is the whole society. In Venezuela a saving Messiah is still waiting.

Someone external, come, solve problems, be fast, not cost them and in the end leave them better than they are now.

Everyone aspires for another to come and resolve, but never sacrifice anything.

If we can call that a failed state, well yes it is.

Neither the government is so bad, nor the opposition is so good, in the end, mediocrity is that Venezuela does not finish taking a course, whatever, but that generates at least the necessary calm for the country to develop.

the country is developed people have to run their economic infrastructure. foreigners dont do anything else but either. use the venezuelans as workers.

or just settle there and run their own economic output if the venezuelans dont support their currency or cant trust their banksters. to run their currency well then venezuela will be passivly ruled by a foreign country. same as it was with the russians and the us dollar when the soviet union collapsed.

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August 25, 2018, 02:22:37 AM
Merited by Spendulus (2)
 #27

You missed the part where this isn't the 'real socialism' and that they failed in their 'development' and the 'wrong people are in charge'

People don't understand that this is what a government FULLY entrenched in socialism is a government that is ALWAYS going to end up like Venezuela.

I do hope that they go down in flames, and I really do hope that people learn from this -- though I don't know if this is going to end up being the case. It always seems to end up being that people are going to say that this isn't the 'real way' and they're going to try it again somewhere else. It's usually a nation that was beautiful and booming before too, sad.....

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Spendulus
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August 25, 2018, 12:39:44 PM
 #28

You missed the part where this isn't the 'real socialism' and that they failed in their 'development' and the 'wrong people are in charge'

People don't understand that this is what a government FULLY entrenched in socialism is a government that is ALWAYS going to end up like Venezuela.....

That's very perceptive.

Socialist nations make progress when they move AWAY from socialism.

Even Cuba, today, does not ban the accumulation of private wealth. Both China and Russia support private capitalism. One may not like the Russian gangster version or the Chinese version, but they have moved FAR from socialist principles and ideology.

After the Venezuelan people restart their economy, if they still want leaders who promise them free stuff, it's pretty hopeless.
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August 25, 2018, 04:44:29 PM
 #29

Loads of links to info about Venezuela, with pictures and some videos, right here - http://www.freedomsphoenix.com/Subjects/00494-LAST-venezuela.htm...

Plus...

Venezuelan Earthquake: Natural or Engineered - http://www.freedomsphoenix.com/Article/246029-2018-08-22-venezuelan-earthquake-natural-or-engineered.htm

Cool
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August 25, 2018, 05:42:27 PM
 #30

venezuela's crysis is the job of economic hitmen from the west
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August 25, 2018, 09:07:51 PM
 #31

venezuela's crysis is the job of economic hitmen from the west

Obvious, because, Venezuela is part of the west.    Cool
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August 26, 2018, 03:07:47 AM
 #32

The only time socialism has ever worked is if you restrict it to a very small group or tribe. (Like the amish who I believe limit each group to about 250 people)

Every time its tried on a mass scale it ends in abject failure because its based on the idea that everyone is looking out for the group as a whole. That is never going to happen when millions of people are involved it goes against basic human nature.

But people are too stupid to learn from the past.
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August 26, 2018, 01:23:27 PM
 #33

The only time socialism has ever worked is if you restrict it to a very small group or tribe. (Like the amish who I believe limit each group to about 250 people)

Every time its tried on a mass scale it ends in abject failure because its based on the idea that everyone is looking out for the group as a whole. That is never going to happen when millions of people are involved it goes against basic human nature.

But people are too stupid to learn from the past.

nope socialism fails because a small group (central banksters) is pretending it looks for the whole group while secretly enriches itself, at the expense of the group they controll.

why does socialism rises in the first place then? you want to live in presocialist aristocratic russia?

seriously who would want to live in presocialist aristocratic russia instead of socialist russia. except those that are massivly brainwashed with religion, or the ex russian nobility.

and aristocratic russia had the highest food security of all monarchic aristocratic capitalist societies on the entire eurasian and african continent and still communism broke out there.

i dont say socialism is perfect, but i say that there could be much worse forms of capitalism that you are experiencing in venezuela right now, like for example zimbabwe, india, etc.

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August 27, 2018, 03:49:12 PM
 #34

You missed the part where this isn't the 'real socialism' and that they failed in their 'development' and the 'wrong people are in charge'

People don't understand that this is what a government FULLY entrenched in socialism is a government that is ALWAYS going to end up like Venezuela.

I do hope that they go down in flames, and I really do hope that people learn from this -- though I don't know if this is going to end up being the case. It always seems to end up being that people are going to say that this isn't the 'real way' and they're going to try it again somewhere else. It's usually a nation that was beautiful and booming before too, sad.....

I can not affirm or deny your comment, just go to comment a bit, what analysts, I guess more versed than me, have said about it.

In each essay of socialism, which obviously ends up failing, the only difference is how long it takes to do it, the first thing that is done, and is part of the formula or the franchise of socialism, that is, that what failed, was not really socialism.

All this argument, is nothing else, than to leave the door open for future trials, where in the long run the result will be the same, total failure.

To this comment, the defenders of European socialism always come out, and that's where the socialists have been great, in converting European Humanism, in socialism by definition, to use them as a possible example, in none of those "socialisms" is there talk of nationalization, limitation of freedoms, or permits to buy food. They have been great in Marketing Communism, as socialism, to mix it with that humanism that was called socialism.

In the end, the result of socialism, if it is the one that has been seen, Total failure.

MBYZ
¦•-»  El verdadero desafío es dar valor real a las monedas /The real challenge is to give real value to the currencies. «-•¦
¦ [Website] | [Telegram] | [Whitepaper] | [Youtube] | [Bitcointalk ANN] | [Instagram]
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August 28, 2018, 03:05:31 AM
 #35

You missed the part where this isn't the 'real socialism' and that they failed in their 'development' and the 'wrong people are in charge'

People don't understand that this is what a government FULLY entrenched in socialism is a government that is ALWAYS going to end up like Venezuela.

....It's usually a nation that was beautiful and booming before too, sad.....
... the defenders of European socialism always come out, and that's where the socialists have been great, in converting European Humanism, in socialism by definition, to use them as a possible example, in none of those "socialisms" is there talk of nationalization, limitation of freedoms, or permits to buy food. They have been great in Marketing Communism, as socialism, to mix it with that humanism that was called socialism.

In the end, the result of socialism, if it is the one that has been seen, Total failure.

There's currently a great silence over the election of a Marxist president in South Africa, and his implementation of the plan to confiscate all the farms owned by "white farmers."

Want to guess how that's likely to turn out?
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August 28, 2018, 03:31:41 PM
 #36

The only time socialism has ever worked is if you restrict it to a very small group or tribe. (Like the amish who I believe limit each group to about 250 people)

Every time its tried on a mass scale it ends in abject failure because its based on the idea that everyone is looking out for the group as a whole. That is never going to happen when millions of people are involved it goes against basic human nature.

But people are too stupid to learn from the past.

nope socialism fails because a small group (central banksters) is pretending it looks for the whole group while secretly enriches itself, at the expense of the group they controll.

why does socialism rises in the first place then? you want to live in presocialist aristocratic russia?

seriously who would want to live in presocialist aristocratic russia instead of socialist russia. except those that are massivly brainwashed with religion, or the ex russian nobility.

and aristocratic russia had the highest food security of all monarchic aristocratic capitalist societies on the entire eurasian and african continent and still communism broke out there.

i dont say socialism is perfect, but i say that there could be much worse forms of capitalism that you are experiencing in venezuela right now, like for example zimbabwe, india, etc.

Haha. Yes the central bankers control things, you know how they do that? Through a big government which is always supported by socialist. In a small government system you will not have a central bank that is why the USA did not have one till 1913 when things started going downhill fast.
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August 28, 2018, 06:15:17 PM
 #37

The only time socialism has ever worked is if you restrict it to a very small group or tribe. (Like the amish who I believe limit each group to about 250 people)

Every time its tried on a mass scale it ends in abject failure because its based on the idea that everyone is looking out for the group as a whole. That is never going to happen when millions of people are involved it goes against basic human nature.

But people are too stupid to learn from the past.

nope socialism fails because a small group (central banksters) is pretending it looks for the whole group while secretly enriches itself, at the expense of the group they controll.

why does socialism rises in the first place then? you want to live in presocialist aristocratic russia?

seriously who would want to live in presocialist aristocratic russia instead of socialist russia. except those that are massivly brainwashed with religion, or the ex russian nobility.

and aristocratic russia had the highest food security of all monarchic aristocratic capitalist societies on the entire eurasian and african continent and still communism broke out there.

i dont say socialism is perfect, but i say that there could be much worse forms of capitalism that you are experiencing in venezuela right now, like for example zimbabwe, india, etc.

Haha. Yes the central bankers control things, you know how they do that? Through a big government which is always supported by socialist. In a small government system you will not have a central bank that is why the USA did not have one till 1913 when things started going downhill fast.

small governments and small states have different problems, like greedy capitalists killing and surpressing each other and the population, like in aristocratic europ middle east china india etc.

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August 28, 2018, 11:08:46 PM
 #38

The only time socialism has ever worked is if you restrict it to a very small group or tribe. (Like the amish who I believe limit each group to about 250 people)

Every time its tried on a mass scale it ends in abject failure because its based on the idea that everyone is looking out for the group as a whole. That is never going to happen when millions of people are involved it goes against basic human nature.

But people are too stupid to learn from the past.

nope socialism fails because a small group (central banksters) is pretending it looks for the whole group while secretly enriches itself, at the expense of the group they controll.

why does socialism rises in the first place then? you want to live in presocialist aristocratic russia?

seriously who would want to live in presocialist aristocratic russia instead of socialist russia. except those that are massivly brainwashed with religion, or the ex russian nobility.

and aristocratic russia had the highest food security of all monarchic aristocratic capitalist societies on the entire eurasian and african continent and still communism broke out there.

i dont say socialism is perfect, but i say that there could be much worse forms of capitalism that you are experiencing in venezuela right now, like for example zimbabwe, india, etc.

Haha. Yes the central bankers control things, you know how they do that? Through a big government which is always supported by socialist. In a small government system you will not have a central bank that is why the USA did not have one till 1913 when things started going downhill fast.

small governments and small states have different problems, like greedy capitalists killing and surpressing each other and the population, like in aristocratic europ middle east china india etc.


There a not single country in the world right now that is remotely capitalist. USA before 1900-1930 or so is the closest we've ever come and the USA is still living off the wealth and advantage created from that time period.

Unfortunately something like that may possibly never occur again since the USA was a very unique case where mostly independent minded people immigrated here. Most people are tribe minded group thinkers so it will be tough for anything similar to happen.
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August 28, 2018, 11:30:52 PM
 #39


There a not single country in the world right now that is remotely capitalist. USA before 1900-1930 or so is the closest we've ever come and the USA is still living off the wealth and advantage created from that time period.

Unfortunately something like that may possibly never occur again since the USA was a very unique case where mostly independent minded people immigrated here. Most people are tribe minded group thinkers so it will be tough for anything similar to happen.

Actually, back at the beginnings of the USA, people had a very different understanding of the way things work in America.

Dig out a copy of the 4th Amendment, and notice that little word, "persons," therein. That little word is one of the most important words in the whole Constitution and Bill of Rights. The people back then understood it, and would be shocked if they knew that we don't.

Back in those days, a person was a piece of paper that was an agreement. The reason it was called a person was that it had the name of a real live man or woman on it. The person was not the man or woman. Rather, it was simply an agreement. Everybody back then understood this.

Nowadays, a person actually IS the man or woman, or worse, the opposite. The man or woman becomes the person. And this is used in court all the time.

A prosecutor makes a person/document by placing the name of a man or woman on a piece of paper, and then he and the judge talk the man or woman into essentially stating that they are the person... the piece of paper. The man or woman is made liable for whatever judgment is placed on the piece of paper, because they agreed that they were the person on the paper.

If the people ever woke up, there would be a whole bunch of dead attorneys and judges and bankers lying around all over the place. In addition, the whole country would go back to real capitalism, because everybody would realize that he had the right to make his own persons to labor for real money, rather than for Federal Reserve debt instruments.

Cool
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August 29, 2018, 12:05:32 AM
 #40


There a not single country in the world right now that is remotely capitalist. USA before 1900-1930 or so is the closest we've ever come and the USA is still living off the wealth and advantage created from that time period.

Unfortunately something like that may possibly never occur again since the USA was a very unique case where mostly independent minded people immigrated here. Most people are tribe minded group thinkers so it will be tough for anything similar to happen.

Actually, back at the beginnings of the USA, people had a very different understanding of the way things work in America.

Dig out a copy of the 4th Amendment, and notice that little word, "persons," therein. That little word is one of the most important words in the whole Constitution and Bill of Rights. The people back then understood it, and would be shocked if they knew that we don't.

Back in those days, a person was a piece of paper that was an agreement. The reason it was called a person was that it had the name of a real live man or woman on it. The person was not the man or woman. Rather, it was simply an agreement. Everybody back then understood this.

Nowadays, a person actually IS the man or woman, or worse, the opposite. The man or woman becomes the person. And this is used in court all the time.

A prosecutor makes a person/document by placing the name of a man or woman on a piece of paper, and then he and the judge talk the man or woman into essentially stating that they are the person... the piece of paper. The man or woman is made liable for whatever judgment is placed on the piece of paper, because they agreed that they were the person on the paper.

If the people ever woke up, there would be a whole bunch of dead attorneys and judges and bankers lying around all over the place. In addition, the whole country would go back to real capitalism, because everybody would realize that he had the right to make his own persons to labor for real money, rather than for Federal Reserve debt instruments.

Cool

Yes and people sign up for this agreement by getting their SS (slave number), the true mark of the beast.
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