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Question: Do you agree to stop account buy- sell on bitcointalk?
Yes - 26 (72.2%)
No - 9 (25%)
None - 1 (2.8%)
Total Voters: 36

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Author Topic: Account buy - sell should be ban officially  (Read 568 times)
Coolcryptovator
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August 17, 2018, 05:16:11 PM
 #21

Wow! Am I the only one here who is suspecting an Alt account here? The OP's post was garbage, most likely a google translation. Then comes in "Coolcryptovator" and merits him with 5 points for a shitpost.  Roll Eyes

And this doesn't stop here. He makes another Shitpost to bump up his signature posts and guess what? Both have a motto of "Scam free Bitcointalk".

I have seen 2 "shitposts" today from users wearing the BQT signature, I will check up with the manager soon.

Why you reply on shitpost ? If I ware same moto from you that means you are my alt ? I don't know post are from Google translate or not but I strongly agree with OP and I consider this is a useful post so I merited him with 5 smerit. If I am shitposter than I think you are not different from me. You didn't ware signature? If yes than also your reply here for post count. Don't attack personally to some one. Nothing is personally here. If you think I am shitposter , why not report to moderator ?


It isn't about "perfect English" but rather creating a topic about an issue which has been discussed literally thousands of time around here. Also, they aren't doing any favour to the community by using google translate except to bump up their signature posts. That's why we have local sections. People who have trouble writing English should stick to those. Else they will end up making useless and low-quality posts.

Since I joined forum I can't see much discussion about to ban account sale officially. Any way I never support account buy sale on the forum.

Quote
     I have sent a message to Zapo
Good job

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August 17, 2018, 05:20:13 PM
 #22

There's one thing I don't see anybody talking about here. I don't think it's very practical to ban selling accounts. How could you practically apply a ban like that? I mean, you can see if the quality of posts completely changes at one point of time and the person starts spamming. If they already have the status they want, they may not really post very much at all anymore. I think it's also a good point, that if it would be banned, it could drive prices up more, like illegal drugs. You have to keep in mind, the original account owners put in a lot of work and effort to get their rank up. If they decide they want to move on in their life, maybe their efforts should be worth something. Then if the new account owner does stupid things, they'll just lose their whole investment. They'll get what they deserve.
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August 17, 2018, 05:47:11 PM
 #23

Quote
As a new member I admit that may be I haven't got vast knowledge like you. But I think by discussion I can learn and expand my knowledge. I wish I can learn a lot in future by following someone experienced like you and other DT members. In my topic I try my best to elaborate.

Look bud I have nothing against you. Also, I don't have "vast knowledge" of any sorts. It's just that using google translate for posting here will only leave a negative impact on your profile. Someone might report you for a poor quality post and it may end up in a ban. If you want to suggest something then Suggest it in your local board and ask a person who has "Good" enough English to post here. If you would have researched a bit, you would have found that this topic has been discussed many times before and doesn't serve any purpose except for creating more spam.

If you really want to learn, then start by learning English as it will help you learn more things. Do more reading and less writing for now. Join Jet Cash's fit to talk program. It can help you a lot. Good luck Smiley

Quote
Why you reply on shitpost ?

Umm, To Warn him Roll Eyes

Quote
If I ware same moto from you that means you are my alt ?

No. But it would raise suspicion, Seeing a shitpost getting 5 sMerit.

Quote
I don't know post are from Google translate or not but I strongly agree with OP and I consider this is a useful post so I merited him with 5 smerit.

I Guess broken English can only be understood by people who write broken English.

Quote
You didn't ware signature?

Yes, I am indeed "wearing" a signature.

Quote
Don't attack personally to some one.

I have nothing against you! It's just that, Posts like these make my eyes bleed! I have Stopped visiting a few sections altogether just to not see posts like these. Don't want Meta to be ruined too!

Quote
If you think I am shitposter , why not report to moderator ?

I have sent a message to Zapo.

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August 17, 2018, 05:50:13 PM
Merited by hilariousetc (1)
 #24

How could you practically apply a ban like that?
If you're caught attempting to buy or sell an account here, you would get banned.  Whether a ban would apply to someone suspected of buying or selling an account, that's another story but it isn't rocket science.  I'm not sure why people here make this out to be some sort of super-complicated dilemma, because it really isn't.  The will to do anything by admins just isn't there.  That's what the problem is.

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August 17, 2018, 06:18:57 PM
 #25

Look bud I have nothing against you. Also, I don't have "vast knowledge" of any sorts. It's just that using google translate for posting here will only leave a negative impact on your profile.
Thanks a lot for being positive about me. You suggestion means a lot to me. But you will be glad to know that I haven't used google translator for creating my post. All I shared here is completely from my own creation. Although I will try my best to improve my skills and maybe that will satisfy you soon Smiley

Lets work together to make bitcointalk scam free
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August 18, 2018, 12:09:22 AM
Merited by Foxpup (2)
 #26

Banning account trades in the forum might finish the deals happening in public, like in Auctions or Digital Goods sections, but they will start doing it in private
I hate that argument with a passion.  It's an excuse to do nothing in the face of wrongdoing, and such poor reasoning would never fly anywhere in our world of laws.

Imposing a rule without a viable way to enforce it wouldn't do much good.

If account sales are banned we're gonna catch a few idiots who attempt to do it in the open and that's about it. I don't see what we could possibly do about sales happening outside of the forum. There are plenty of examples like that IRL too, e.g. Chicago gun restrictions rendered largely useless by Indiana. We can impose such restrictions to make ourselves feel better but I doubt it would make a dent in the actual problem.

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August 18, 2018, 12:39:49 AM
 #27

There are plenty of examples like that IRL too, e.g. Chicago gun restrictions rendered largely useless by Indiana. We can impose such restrictions to make ourselves feel better but I doubt it would make a dent in the actual problem.
Yeah I can't deny that its really hard to stop the activities of account buy - sell. There is a proverb: "Prevention is better than cure".

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August 18, 2018, 01:01:17 AM
 #28



You can't totally stop account selling and buying when multiple accounts are allowed and you can't disallow having multiple accounts too because the community advocates anonymity. Users has to create new accounts when they  promote something new. I think all the mods, staff and all other else including the DT members are going to just be busy spotting all these account sales and merit abusers.

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August 18, 2018, 08:30:05 AM
 #29

You can't totally stop account selling and buying when multiple accounts are allowed and you can't disallow having multiple accounts too because the community advocates anonymity.
Forum rules allow account sales but it is discouraged. Simply because the account carries the value of the trades done and the social network that they have set up while in this forum. Someone may mistake that as their old pal while actually its a scammer in disguise who bought that account for scamming only.

Quote
Users has to create new accounts when they  promote something new.
As long as they confess which accounts they are owning as alt accounts in the user generated thread made just for this in "Reputation" they should be good. It would make everyone's lives easier then to tag them in case they end up with some wrong doing.

Quote
I think all the mods, staff and all other else including the DT members are going to just be busy spotting all these account sales and merit abusers.
You dont seems to have read the rules/OP's first post. Read what I wrote in the first line and the OP's post and the rules of this forum before you post again.

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August 18, 2018, 11:02:40 AM
 #30

I have read all the posts we have here so far on this topic and this is what I think...

The problem is in allowing and to maintain more than one account. If a user have a valid reason for creating a new account then let them to create one.
(i.e: in the cases of account ban/hack of kind of stuffs, but limit them only in meta which we already have. Once the issue will be resolved then lock the new account they have created since it has no use left)

theymos has theymos_away (This account is controlled by theymos, but it is less secure. Do not do business with this account.), LoyceV has LoyceMobile (LoyceV on the road (or in bed) Don't deal with this account (untrusted devices)) - these are also some example of valid reasons.

Members are creating alts because they know they can make some extra money from it (wearing the signature or joining the bounties or build the account and then sell it  or any other way). I have no problem with people making money but why do anyone need another account when they already have an existing account?

And about confessing which accounts they are owning as alt accounts: Those with responsibility to the forum they will do however think about this - If I create an alt account then would I do the same (considering the stuffs going on with me just because my identity was known to the forum. Even My wife who does not have any clue about this forum was drugged into this).

Anyway, I doubt account banning will work, how many buying selling you will stop by tagging the sellers or buyer? So I doubt that is also working. If we admit the root then discourage creating alt accounts.

Quote
18. Having multiple accounts and account sales are allowed, but account sales are discouraged.
Quote
18. Having multiple accounts are discouraged.
or
Quote
18. Having multiple accounts and account sales are allowed, but both are discouraged.
Possibly?


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August 18, 2018, 11:36:30 AM
 #31


I agree with the ban on buying accounts. But how can we ban it when they do not openly sell the account? And we have no evidence to believe that they have bought or sold accounts?
I have participated in many telegrams and I also know some people are doing the buying and selling of those accounts.

But do you ever ask why these things happen? Why are there buyers and sellers? I think the merits of the present system are too strict to give merit to others. But if the merit is not strict, then the main account can be buff merit for the secondary accounts.

So how to limit the purchase of accounts, limit spam? The main problem is the Bounty Campaign. Most of the spam is due to bounty, the account is also sold by the bounty. I think it's a good idea to limit rank to signature bounty, from atleast Full Member or Sr.Member to can join Bounty. Bounty pool for Signature should be split less.

This is limited to spam because if the spam they will lose the account Sr.Member that nobody wants to lose. If you still allow Jr.Member or member to join the Signature campaign, the spam will continue to occur, because to get rank Jr.Mem or Mem is not too difficult. Restricting participation in the Signature campaign also limits buy or sell accounts, as not many people are able to buy high-rank accounts.

This is my ideals, my english is not good, hope you can understands.
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August 18, 2018, 11:54:07 AM
 #32

There's one thing I don't see anybody talking about here. I don't think it's very practical to ban selling accounts. How could you practically apply a ban like that? I mean, you can see if the quality of posts completely changes at one point of time and the person starts spamming. If they already have the status they want, they may not really post very much at all any more. I think it's also a good point, that if it would be banned, it could drive prices up more, like illegal drugs. You have to keep in mind, the original account owners put in a lot of work and effort to get their rank up. If they decide they want to move on in their life, maybe their efforts should be worth something. Then if the new account owner does stupid things, they'll just lose their whole investment. They'll get what they deserve.

Well you, an account farmer, would say this. How many accounts are you farming? How many of your accounts have you had banned now? Which ones of these are yours that I've noticed posting in the exact same threads as you:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2247852     Zayn_Nazy     June 30, 2018
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2280178     Willie_Linder July 14, 2018
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2279012     katherin_panini     July 13, 2018
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2271482 Michael_Cox     July 10, 2018
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2280138     James_Cline     July 14, 2018
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2272791     Sherwood_Archer     July 11, 2018
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2271537     Aidan_Davis     July 10, 2018

Besides, you stop it the same way we don't allow users to sell weapons or post ref links here. If they list an account for sale it gets removed or they get banned. As ThePharmacist said, it's not rocket science.

Banning account trades in the forum might finish the deals happening in public, like in Auctions or Digital Goods sections, but they will start doing it in private
I hate that argument with a passion.  It's an excuse to do nothing in the face of wrongdoing, and such poor reasoning would never fly anywhere in our world of laws.

Imposing a rule without a viable way to enforce it wouldn't do much good.

If account sales are banned we're gonna catch a few idiots who attempt to do it in the open and that's about it. I don't see what we could possibly do about sales happening outside of the forum. There are plenty of examples like that IRL too, e.g. Chicago gun restrictions rendered largely useless by Indiana. We can impose such restrictions to make ourselves feel better but I doubt it would make a dent in the actual problem.

We might as well get rid of all rules then. We can't do anything about ban evasion or rule breaking. Therefore, don't ban people and let them do what they want?

If we went with my suggestion of allowing people to purchase the equivalent rank in things like Silver and Gold Memberships account sales would mostly cease to happen. People only buy them for signature campaigns and half of the time the people selling them are either scammers who don't have any accounts to sell in the first place or hackers/shitposting farmers. If account sales are going to happen then let them safely buy them from the forum. It's win win. There are no negatives to this at all.

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August 18, 2018, 02:22:02 PM
 #33

We might as well get rid of all rules then. We can't do anything about ban evasion or rule breaking. Therefore, don't ban people and let them do what they want?

Not the same thing. Account sales can easily happen outside of our control. Other rules are broken here and can be enforced here to a varying extent. Your suggestion below sounds good. There would still be plenty of private account sales:

1) Farmers and hackers and scammers would still sell (or "sell") them at a lower price than the "official" price.
2) High merit or high trust or just old accounts would still have higher value.
3) Someone who buys an "official" account may want to get some of that cost back if they decide to leave the forum.
4) I'm sure there would be all sorts of weird deals that I can't even imagine right now, like lease/share/etc.

The net effect would likely be positive though.

If we went with my suggestion of allowing people to purchase the equivalent rank in things like Silver and Gold Memberships account sales would mostly cease to happen. People only buy them for signature campaigns and half of the time the people selling them are either scammers who don't have any accounts to sell in the first place or hackers/shitposting farmers. If account sales are going to happen then let them safely buy them from the forum. It's win win. There are no negatives to this at all.

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August 18, 2018, 03:07:40 PM
 #34

But on the other hand some guys buy high rank accounts through money just only for sign campaign.
I'm concerned about this, of course, but I'm far more concerned about scammers buying an account with green trust and high rank.  Those sorts of account sales can do a LOT of damage.  Fortunately when this happens there are usually signs that the account has been sold (change in posting habits, waking up after a long time, change in password/e-mail, and attempting to do a lot of deals at once), but you can't count on those warning signs existing.  

We should all be concerned about how easy is to hack / scam / monetize / spam / buy & re-sell accounts / farm / our requests & complains & suggestions being ignored / etc. on this site. The damage has already been made, no one seems to care... I would say that all this happened intentionally over the years endorsed (or compiled passively, as you prefer) by the admins as well as many followers who benefited / made a living out of it. Here some recently taken bitify screenshots :



 
A whole secondary market thrive out of our shadows because of rules being too loose, I have an idea to stop / put a brake against these morally incorrect practices but why bothering if no one cares.. thereof no one to implement nor enforce it...
   
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August 18, 2018, 09:02:12 PM
 #35

Well you, an account farmer, would say this. How many accounts are you farming? How many of your accounts have you had banned now? Which ones of these are yours that I've noticed posting in the exact same threads as you:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2247852     Zayn_Nazy     June 30, 2018
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2280178     Willie_Linder July 14, 2018
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2279012     katherin_panini     July 13, 2018
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2271482 Michael_Cox     July 10, 2018
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2280138     James_Cline     July 14, 2018
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2272791     Sherwood_Archer     July 11, 2018
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2271537     Aidan_Davis     July 10, 2018

Besides, you stop it the same way we don't allow users to sell weapons or post ref links here. If they list an account for sale it gets removed or they get banned. As ThePharmacist said, it's not rocket science.
I literally have no idea what you're talking about. I only recognize seeing a couple of these accounts on the forum.

We might as well get rid of all rules then. We can't do anything about ban evasion or rule breaking. Therefore, don't ban people and let them do what they want?
Well, some violations of the rules are very easy to see and enforce punishment, but some are much more difficult. I guess sometimes it's obvious when an account is sold, but sometimes it's not so apparent. Either way, for some reason admins didn't make this rules.

If we went with my suggestion of allowing people to purchase the equivalent rank in things like Silver and Gold Memberships account sales would mostly cease to happen. People only buy them for signature campaigns and half of the time the people selling them are either scammers who don't have any accounts to sell in the first place or hackers/shitposting farmers. If account sales are going to happen then let them safely buy them from the forum. It's win win. There are no negatives to this at all.
This does sound like a pretty good option. I guess it would require rethinking criteria for signature campaigns though. Then the only real measure of a person's rank would be how much money they put into it. It would definitely be good to support the site though.
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August 19, 2018, 12:08:28 AM
 #36

Totally agree, some many users are doing account farming, limit the accounts to 2 ip it can be a good start.


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August 19, 2018, 01:42:42 AM
 #37

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August 19, 2018, 02:49:19 AM
 #38

OP don't you think admin first have to return hacked accounts back to users who are waiting them for months? This is much bigger issue than ban account trading.
And to be honest this has been discussed 2 years ago.

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August 19, 2018, 03:41:54 AM
 #39

OP don't you think admin first have to return hacked accounts back to users who are waiting them for months? This is much bigger issue than ban account trading.
Strongly agree, return hacked account should give  more priority. Some people waiting from years. Also need implement more security like Google 2FA or mobile verification. I think it will be easy if theymos give power to moderator for recover account.

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August 19, 2018, 03:53:51 AM
 #40

OP don't you think admin first have to return hacked accounts back to users who are waiting them for months? This is much bigger issue than ban account trading.
And to be honest this has been discussed 2 years ago.
Yeah you are definitely right. Admin should think about those hacked account first. Nowadays hacking has been a common issue worldwide. Everyday many websites are being targeted by hackers. To find a solution every website owners are thinking to strict their website security by integratiing update security system. Hence bitcointalk authorities will find an reliable security system to save their users account from those Evil(hunters).

2 years ago there was no merit system in Bitcointalk Sad


Lets work together to make bitcointalk scam free
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