Account buy - sell should be ban officially

[digaran]

You don't need to do anything other than saying that account trading is against the rules, then whoever attempts to trade accounts gets reported and banned, this is really easy to do, just do it, I'm begging you.

[hilariousetc]

Well you, an account farmer, would say this. How many accounts are you farming? How many of your accounts have you had banned now? Which ones of these are yours that I've noticed posting in the exact same threads as you:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2247852     Zayn_Nazy     June 30, 2018
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2280178     Willie_Linder July 14, 2018
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2279012     katherin_panini     July 13, 2018
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2271482 Michael_Cox     July 10, 2018
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2280138     James_Cline     July 14, 2018
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2272791     Sherwood_Archer     July 11, 2018
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2271537     Aidan_Davis     July 10, 2018

Besides, you stop it the same way we don't allow users to sell weapons or post ref links here. If they list an account for sale it gets removed or they get banned. As ThePharmacist said, it's not rocket science.

I literally have no idea what you're talking about. I only recognize seeing a couple of these accounts on the forum.

They just so happen to have the same formatted names as you, registered all within days, post exactly the same way you do, in exactly the same threads you do? C'mon, I'm not an idiot. Lucky for you admins will probably never look into this, otherwise we'd likely be seeing another "why was my entire office's accounts blocked? thread. Your posts aren't utter shit like most farmers though so I'll give you that at least.

We might as well get rid of all rules then. We can't do anything about ban evasion or rule breaking. Therefore, don't ban people and let them do what they want?

Well, some violations of the rules are very easy to see and enforce punishment, but some are much more difficult. I guess sometimes it's obvious when an account is sold, but sometimes it's not so apparent.

Just because accounts will get sold elsewhere doesn't mean we have to allow it here. People will sell malware and weapons elsewhere, but we don't allow it here and if they posted such threads they'd be trashed and banned. The same could easily just happen with account sales.

If we went with my suggestion of allowing people to purchase the equivalent rank in things like Silver and Gold Memberships account sales would mostly cease to happen. People only buy them for signature campaigns and half of the time the people selling them are either scammers who don't have any accounts to sell in the first place or hackers/shitposting farmers. If account sales are going to happen then let them safely buy them from the forum. It's win win. There are no negatives to this at all.

This does sound like a pretty good option. I guess it would require rethinking criteria for signature campaigns though. Then the only real measure of a person's rank would be how much money they put into it. It would definitely be good to support the site though.

What needs rethinking? Signature campaigns would adapt and most would include payment terms for the new titles just like they did when signatures were changed relative to ranks. You would still be a Junior or Senior Member or whatever but with the additional Copper, Silver, or Gold title underneath that and they would pay for that. People would still have to get merit and activity to rise through the ranks though as you're not buying the rank but the donator title. I dare say some of the better campaigns still won't accept a Newbie with no merit but with a Gold Member title but shitcoin ICOs will.

[Aidan_Davis]

They just so happen to have the same formatted names as you, registered all within days, post exactly the same way you do, in exactly the same threads you do? C'mon, I'm not an idiot. Lucky for you admins will probably never look into this, otherwise we'd likely be seeing another "why was my entire office's accounts blocked? thread. Your posts aren't utter shit like most farmers though so I'll give you that at least.

Feel free to believe what you'd like. Thanks for the semi-compliment about my posts, I guess.

Just because accounts will get sold elsewhere doesn't mean we have to allow it here. People will sell malware and weapons elsewhere, but we don't allow it here and if they posted such threads they'd be trashed and banned. The same could easily just happen with account sales.

Why do you think the admins have decided not to ban the sale of accounts? I agree that it's not ideal to have people selling accounts. I was just saying that if you can't stop it, then it may be better to just let it be and punish people based on their actions on the forum. Maybe you're right, maybe if it's officially forbidden, then it will deter sales. In the threads I've seen on here where somebody is selling an account, a lot of people always seem to give the sellers a very hard time.

[hilariousetc]

Why do you think the admins have decided not to ban the sale of accounts? I agree that it's not ideal to have people selling accounts. I was just saying that if you can't stop it, then it may be better to just let it be and punish people based on their actions on the forum. Maybe you're right, maybe if it's officially forbidden, then it will deter sales. In the threads I've seen on here where somebody is selling an account, a lot of people always seem to give the sellers a very hard time.

Well I think the official reason is that it will happen anyway regardless and takes time to police effectively, but so will murders and child pornographers but that's not an excuse not to do anything to try stop it from going on. The entire account selling market is rife with scammers and hackers and doesn't do anything good here nor does it look great that we allow it. As with any suggestion to change the rules or implement new measures (good or bad) the forum is largely a free all and overwhelmed by the greedy and nefarious and nothing ever gets done to try improve it so doubt account sales will ever be stopped, but there are more important issues to deal with right now.

[hilariousetc]

Well you, an account farmer, would say this. How many accounts are you farming? How many of your accounts have you had banned now? Which ones of these are yours that I've noticed posting in the exact same threads as you:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2247852     Zayn_Nazy     June 30, 2018
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2280178     Willie_Linder July 14, 2018
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2279012     katherin_panini     July 13, 2018
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2271482 Michael_Cox     July 10, 2018
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2280138     James_Cline     July 14, 2018
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2272791     Sherwood_Archer     July 11, 2018
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2271537     Aidan_Davis     July 10, 2018

Besides, you stop it the same way we don't allow users to sell weapons or post ref links here. If they list an account for sale it gets removed or they get banned. As ThePharmacist said, it's not rocket science.

I literally have no idea what you're talking about. I only recognize seeing a couple of these accounts on the forum.

Don't suppose you know who these accounts belong to either?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2271547     Luis_Gray July 10, 2018
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2274820     randall_boss     July 12, 2018
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2273291     Merritt_Baldric     July 11, 2018
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2274323         Jared_Burns July 12, 2018
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2277232     Charles_Summers     July 12, 2018
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2280233     Kimberley_Isham July 14, 2018
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2271603         Isaac_Ramirez     July 10, 2018
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2271544     Brian_Wood     July 10, 2018
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2271623     Owen_Smith     July 10, 2018
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2274435b     Stuart_Shook     July 12, 2018
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2273233 Dawson_V     July 11, 2018
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2274369 Nathan_Weymouth     July 12, 2018
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2271455     Luke_Turner     July 10, 2018
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2280233     Kimberley_Isham     July 14, 2018,


Posting in the same threads as you in a similar format. I'm sure there's many more I could find if I was prepared to spend any longer looking.

So yeah, I think we should do something about account sales/farming. Plenty of options to curb this sort of behaviour and the forum is better of for it. As long as people can get paid on campaigns and account ranks have value then this sort of stuff will only get worse the longer we leave it.

By the way, what actually is your purpose for farming all those? Claim bounties? Sig spam? Sell them? Why can't you just make those posts from one account? Would be a lot less hassle and good luck trying to get merit for all those. you might actually achieve it eventually with just the one though.

[Thekool1s]

By the way, what actually is your purpose for farming all those? Claim bounties? Sig spam? Sell them? Why can't you just make those posts from one account? Would be a lot less hassle and good luck trying to get merit for all those. you might actually achieve it eventually with just the one though.

Their posting quality is above average, I have to give it to them. I think these are the new "Call Centers" where these people can earn "Legit money" from. I believe these people have realized that sooner or later spammers will get kicked and it will become only harder to rank up later, So they have started to build up their accounts. Smart move IMO. Account prices should rise drastically once the mass banning kicks off. They could sell these accounts, use these ranked accounts to earn from bounties/campaigns as you mentioned. I don't think they will make rookie mistakes like using same Address for receiving their Rewards. They look more organized than a "normal" Farmer. I believe this is just the beginning and we will see more groups popping up soon, Once the word gets out. "Damned" we are indeed.

[The Cryptovator]

That's the reason why I was strongly agreed with OP;

Why? I'm asking a Question how to get merits in a less complicated way

Answer:  People will not trust you if you use merit as a commodity.

Getting merit isn't complicated to begin with, as you know.  This guy just wants it to somehow be handed to him for not making good posts.

Anyway, I tagged him for the account sale.  OP, that's what you get for calling attention to yourself with this idiotic thread--as if you couldn't read the 100 or so other threads about how to earn merits.

understand the rules dont just read :
18. Having multiple accounts and account sales are allowed, but account sales are discouraged.
reference : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=703657.0

you abusing the rules. stop acting like you own this place giving red trust to anyone who doesn't click with your opinion.

People's are making sound after tagged by DT for account trade. Because this is allowed by forum. So once seller/buyer will get tag , they will spam against DT. If officially ban account sell than there is no chance for make sound.

[Welsh]

Their posting quality is above average, I have to give it to them. I think these are the new "Call Centers" where these people can earn "Legit money" from. I believe these people have realized that sooner or later spammers will get kicked and it will become only harder to rank up later, So they have started to build up their accounts. Smart move IMO. Account prices should rise drastically once the mass banning kicks off. They could sell these accounts, use these ranked accounts to earn from bounties/campaigns as you mentioned. I don't think they will make rookie mistakes like using same Address for receiving their Rewards. They look more organized than a "normal" Farmer. I believe this is just the beginning and we will see more groups popping up soon, Once the word gets out. "Damned" we are indeed.

These "call centers" are becoming a bit of a problem. Whenever I move a thread to the trashcan, and leave a redirect notice I received several messages from newbie accounts that their "team" can provide bumping services, and what not. So, it seems that the whole industry is looking to employ people to spam. But, because there's multiple people doing it, and different writing styles, and more time its much harder to recognize that it is spam.

[coinlocket$]

~
These "call centers" are becoming a bit of a problem. Whenever I move a thread to the trashcan, and leave a redirect notice I received several messages from newbie accounts that their "team" can provide bumping services, and what not. So, it seems that the whole industry is looking to employ people to spam. But, because there's multiple people doing it, and different writing styles, and more time its much harder to recognize that it is spam.

If you go for a tour on the ANNOUNCEMENT section and if you open any thread with more than 10 pages you will notice that they are full of messages froum users writing "nice project" or people quoting each other. (and if you look at the post history of these people you notice that they do the same on different threads and you can identify the various bumping teams).

[hilariousetc]

Their posting quality is above average, I have to give it to them. I think these are the new "Call Centers" where these people can earn "Legit money" from. I believe these people have realized that sooner or later spammers will get kicked and it will become only harder to rank up later, So they have started to build up their accounts. Smart move IMO. Account prices should rise drastically once the mass banning kicks off. They could sell these accounts, use these ranked accounts to earn from bounties/campaigns as you mentioned. I don't think they will make rookie mistakes like using same Address for receiving their Rewards. They look more organized than a "normal" Farmer. I believe this is just the beginning and we will see more groups popping up soon, Once the word gets out. "Damned" we are indeed.

These "call centers" are becoming a bit of a problem. Whenever I move a thread to the trashcan, and leave a redirect notice I received several messages from newbie accounts that their "team" can provide bumping services, and what not. So, it seems that the whole industry is looking to employ people to spam. But, because there's multiple people doing it, and different writing styles, and more time its much harder to recognize that it is spam.

Their 'team' is likely just a few of them and hundreds if not thousands of bots they use. Most of them won't be manually writing this generic crap.

If you go for a tour on the ANNOUNCEMENT section and if you open any thread with more than 10 pages you will notice that they are full of messages froum users writing "nice project" or people quoting each other. (and if you look at the post history of these people you notice that they do the same on different threads and you can identify the various bumping teams).

The problem here is two-fold. The majority of them are bumping bots but you also just have other farmers just utilising the opportunity to farm their accounts in those threads and not look out of place. Why contribute to a topic when you can just write the generic 'great project looks interesting' posts instead? I've even seen farmer bots copy and paste a post of one of the bump bots which is just some meta bullshit and yet another example of how bad things have gotten here.

[The Cryptovator]

I would like to up this tread again since OP was last active: October 01, 2018 and I don't think we need create another thread. Just few point I want to highlight. I don't know reason behind account sale why is it allowed by forum. Since there is few argument with DT and reputed members I would like to hear from admin or mod about account sale. If account sale would not ban officially then is it right to tag account seller or buyer ? If not then there should be official instruction that account seller or buyer should not tag. Or just ban account sale officially so that no one will able to do it on forum inside. Because after got tag peoples attack DT members or who caught them. And they are legal to attack since they haven't broke any forum rules.  

From OP poll most of user don't like account trade. I believe Most of reputed users never like it. So admin couldn't reconsider this matter?

[hilariousetc]

I would like to up this tread again since OP was last active: October 01, 2018 and I don't think we need create another thread. Just few point I want to highlight. I don't know reason behind account sale why is it allowed by forum. Since there is few argument with DT and reputed members I would like to hear from admin or mod about account sale. If account sale would not ban officially then is it right to tag account seller or buyer ? If not then there should be official instruction that account seller or buyer should not tag. Or just ban account sale officially so that no one will able to do it on forum inside. Because after got tag peoples attack DT members or who caught them. And they are legal to attack since they haven't broke any forum rules.  

From OP poll most of user don't like account trade. I believe Most of reputed users never like it. So admin couldn't reconsider this matter?

Theymos probably won't change his mind on the issue, but he usually lets the community decide on what is and what isn't trustworthy behaviour and people are free to leave feedback for whatever they think is scammy behaviour. I think the official reasoning why we allow it is that we can't stop it or enforce it efficiently therefore it's allowed. I think in the past theymos has said he doesn't mind or thinks it's okay if people can make money off their old account or something and I've gone through a few opinions on account sales. When I first came here I was against them and was very surprised that they were allowed. Then I kind of warmed to it and thought that it wasn't that bad of an idea or big of a deal and was just another way people could make money here. But then over the years things got exponentially worse with sig spam and the account selling market became more shady and spammy. Accounts became big business and people were farming them in the worst possible ways by shitposting and botting and then of course because accounts had great value hackings became rife. Now I just think they cause more hassle than they're worth and contribute to the degradation of the forum and the majority of people selling them are just scammers who don't even have accounts for sale in the first place. The rest are usually either just spammers or hackers. With the merit system it's going to be very very hard to farm high ranked accounts now but I think lower ranked like Junior and Member will still be done as it's not that hard to get 1/10 merit respectively.  Personally, I think if we're to continue to allow them then we should also just add more donator ranks like Silver and Gold Member as that would essentially kill the account market in the process as people would much rather buy the benefits of the ranks from the forum rather than some shady black market where nine times out of ten they're just going to be scammed.


-------------

There's one thing I don't see anybody talking about here. I don't think it's very practical to ban selling accounts. How could you practically apply a ban like that? I mean, you can see if the quality of posts completely changes at one point of time and the person starts spamming. If they already have the status they want, they may not really post very much at all any more. I think it's also a good point, that if it would be banned, it could drive prices up more, like illegal drugs. You have to keep in mind, the original account owners put in a lot of work and effort to get their rank up. If they decide they want to move on in their life, maybe their efforts should be worth something. Then if the new account owner does stupid things, they'll just lose their whole investment. They'll get what they deserve.

Well you, an account farmer, would say this. How many accounts are you farming? How many of your accounts have you had banned now? Which ones of these are yours that I've noticed posting in the exact same threads as you:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2247852     Zayn_Nazy     June 30, 2018
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2280178     Willie_Linder July 14, 2018
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2279012     katherin_panini     July 13, 2018
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2271482 Michael_Cox     July 10, 2018
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2280138     James_Cline     July 14, 2018
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2272791     Sherwood_Archer     July 11, 2018
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2271537     Aidan_Davis     July 10, 2018

Besides, you stop it the same way we don't allow users to sell weapons or post ref links here. If they list an account for sale it gets removed or they get banned. As ThePharmacist said, it's not rocket science.

Oh, and this farmer above has currently reactivated and further proof that they're the same is they started waking up at the same time after a period of absence:

I thought that these accounts had been abandoned but I saw one today that had reactivated and started posting again:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2280138     James_Cline July 14, 2018

Last post was on August 12, 2018 then starts again on October 08, 2018. It's a similar story with all the others. Stop posting in August and either reappear recently or have yet to be active again.

The first one I spotted (Aidan_Davis) has been inactive since  August 20, 2018, 08:15:36 PM https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2271537  July 10, 2018

But his "sister" hasn't:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2280121 Emily_Davis July 14, 2018,

"She" was inactive since August 12, 2018 to October 12, 2018.

Interestingly she made this thread on the 16th:

As of August 2018, there are over 1600 cryptocurrencies that exist, according to Wikipedia. I know that Wikipedia isn't the most reliable of sources because anyone can edit it whenever they want, but the point is the number of cryptocurrencies being introduced. Some of the new cryptocurrencies I've heard were DeepBrainChain, ByteCoin, IOST, and Elastos. There's also a new coin called Virie, which is apparently a cryptocurrency used to crowdfund and jumpstart the Virternity Project, a project that aims to digitized our minds, economy and the society. I believe that not all new coins aim to scam people, but do we really need more cryptocurrencies? Do we need new cryptocurrencies for every project that exists? Why can't there be one or five cryptocurrencies that all projects can use?

If we look a few posts down in that thread there's another one:

I have to agree with this. Not all projects would work on other existing coins such as bitcoins or ripple or other altcoins. Some needs a specific coin to run their projects, like DeepBrain I think and Virie. That said, I wonder how people would react to too many coins if and when cryptocurrencies became a worldwide digital currency. Do you think that people will be open to the idea of learning about different coins for different purposes?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2280133 Blanca_Gregory July 14, 2018

Gap from August 12, 2018 to October 12, 2018

I wonder if they've been created to shill for DeepBrain and Virie (amongst others)?

[TalkStar]

Thanks everyone who participate here on my thread and sharing their brilliant thoughts about account buy - sell issues. Unfortunately its been a long time my account was not active due to my accidental injury. Feeling good to back again with all you guys.

[Snowflower11]

Dear forum members,
Today I am gonna share an alarming matter which is about bitcointalk account buying and selling. let me explain:

Referrence collected from

18. Having multiple accounts and account sales are allowed, but account sales are discouraged.

After the implementation of merit system in our forum account buy - sell growing dramatically. Its already been an real concern for all. As my thinking generally one person build his/her account after a great hardwork. It takes more than 2 years to reach on targeted rank.But
on the other hand some guys buy high rank accounts through money just only for sign campaign. Its should be stopped. Every single visitor of this forum take decisions about someone by seeing his/her accounts merit,trust,rank. If someone can easily buy that position just by spending some money then what is the price of this rank & hardwork.

I wish all  the forum member will be agree with me. Its our forum and we have to achieve our rank & position by our creativity, knowledge & unique ideas. If the option of buying account not abandoned then all of our effort is worthless.

Finally we see here in the forum that all our DT members are doing hardwork to stop account buy -sell. But account buying and selling is allowed by forum. I think account buy sell should be prevent officially and buyer- seller both should be ban.

I hope the forum members can clean up the bitcointalk forum, besides the hardworking ones, there are always cheaters. Since the new regulations on merit, the status of buying and selling accounts became more common

[TalkStar]

I beleive theymos should reconsider the account buy - sell issue again. In current situation its rising question to users where those acccount sellers & buyers are showing their activities regularly.

Its really concerning IMO how its possible for a new member achieve the ability to handle an purchased legendary /hero/sr member account. After spending a lot of time and gaining experience user got his/her valuable rank. But on the other hand those  buyers being the owner of these higher reputative account by spending an amount of money only. Its really disappointing.
 

[Findingnemo]

I beleive theymos should reconsider the account buy - sell issue again. In current situation its rising question to users where those acccount sellers & buyers are showing their activities regularly.

Its really concerning IMO how its possible for a new member achieve the ability to handle an purchased legendary /hero/sr member account. After spending a lot of time and gaining experience user got his/her valuable rank. But on the other hand those  buyers being the owner of these higher reputative account by spending an amount of money only. Its really disappointing.
 

Even now if someone get caught for using the purchased account or selling it will cause them negative trust.Ranks in this forum is only for people who want to wear signature and it has nothing to do really with the contribution.If a spamming legendary account wearing a signature means the problem is also from the campaign manager who let them to do it.