Most Bitcoin will be clawed back due to widespread theft

[AnonyMint]

man you need some zoloft or some anti depressants...  you are depressing me with all of your threads with all this doom and gloom about the future...

I am not a loser. I don't talk without also formulating a solution.

[quone17]

I thought one of the benefits of Bitcoin was that all transactions are final.  I'm not expecting to ever have someone be able to randomly "cancel" a transaction.  I guess other than some sort of involuntary fork.

[AnonyMint]

It seems that it would be a tremendous use of resources to attempt a claw back of coins from just one major theft.

Isn't that what governments do best.

An elephant is a mouse built to government specifications. - Lazarus Long

$52 billion annually for the NSA, CIA, FBI is not enough?

[Coins4life]

So does this mean we really didn't land on the moon?

[AnonyMint]

So does this mean we really didn't land on the moon?

You have severe myopia about relative size.

Do you conceive how large $150 trillion in global debt is?

How much did it cost to go to moon?

Any more low IQ Bitards want to debate me? Bring it on.

[Coins4life]

So does this mean we really didn't land on the moon?

You have severe myopia about relative size.

Do you conceive how large $150 trillion in global debt is?

How much did it cost to go to moon?

Any more low IQ Bitards want to debate me? Bring it on.

I shit on $150 trillion every night at the club bruh.

[AnonyMint]

I thought one of the benefits of Bitcoin was that all transactions are final.  I'm not expecting to ever have someone be able to randomly "cancel" a transaction.  I guess other than some sort of involuntary fork.

Well so now you know, Bitcoin is a zillion times worse than cash and gold in this respect, because the chain of ownership is recorded in public forever.

The only way I see to improve this is very strong, widespread anonymity, coupled with decentralized exchanges, etc...

So we can hopefully get the advantages of digital money without the severe drawbacks.

Note Bitcoin has ZERO anonymity, even when you try to be anonymous using Tor, CoinJoin, Dark Wallets, etc..

[RichG]

The price will continue to go up. To suck more of you in to owing larger amounts of clawback.

Please buy.

Selling won't make the culpability go away. Once you own Bitcoins, you are screwed.

Make all the posts you want, you are still screwed. 

You think I am happy about this?! 

I thought one of the benefits of Bitcoin was that all transactions are final.  I'm not expecting to ever have someone be able to randomly "cancel" a transaction.  I guess other than some sort of involuntary fork.

Well so now you know, Bitcoin is a zillion times worse than cash and gold in this respect, because the chain of ownership is recorded in public forever.

The only way I see to improve this is very strong, widespread anonymity, coupled with decentralized exchanges, etc...

So we can hopefully get the advantages of digital money without the severe drawbacks.

Note Bitcoin has ZERO anonymity, even when you try to be anonymous using Tor, CoinJoin, Dark Wallets, etc..

Everyone knows that Bitcoin isn't anonymous. How do you think Blockchain.info gets its data?

[AnonyMint]

Everyone knows that Bitcoin isn't anonymous. How do you think Blockchain.info gets its data?

You've conflated two potentially orthogonal issues about anonymity.

It is theoretically possible to have a public ledger, yet also have widespread anonymity on the owners of those coins.

Bitcoin doesn't.

[BitDreams]

For your 'theory' to actually play out Anonymint you would have to have all law enforcement agencies around the world able to access anyone in the world - just about guaranteed to never happen. Know who the owners of the public addresses in question were (many of which would never be associated with an exchange or any other business that would have real user details in any way) - impossible. And, have to be able to have some way of tracking chains of millions and millions and millions of transactions, and deal with tumblers etc. In conspiracy land maybe, in reality not going to happen.

You have a very low IQ.

They can access anyone along the chain of ownership, cherry picking someone in their jurisdication and who didn't use strong anonymity methods.

Orthogonal to that slam dunk, you are discounting the degree of tracking and cooperation that the G20 is doing and planning to do, in response the $150 trillion debt implosion coming and the need to confiscate all wealth to resolve this debt.

All wealth confiscated? How about some debt simply doesn't get paid instead.

[AnonyMint]

For your 'theory' to actually play out Anonymint you would have to have all law enforcement agencies around the world able to access anyone in the world - just about guaranteed to never happen. Know who the owners of the public addresses in question were (many of which would never be associated with an exchange or any other business that would have real user details in any way) - impossible. And, have to be able to have some way of tracking chains of millions and millions and millions of transactions, and deal with tumblers etc. In conspiracy land maybe, in reality not going to happen.

You have a very low IQ.

They can access anyone along the chain of ownership, cherry picking someone in their jurisdication and who didn't use strong anonymity methods.

Orthogonal to that slam dunk, you are discounting the degree of tracking and cooperation that the G20 is doing and planning to do, in response the $150 trillion debt implosion coming and the need to confiscate all wealth to resolve this debt.

All wealth confiscated? How about some debt simply doesn't get paid instead.

Click these two links to read more. The quote below is not the entire logic.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=455141.msg5309735#msg5309735

I think people fail to comprehend that the $150 trillion debt, means $25,000 for every living human, including babies, elderly, and those billions who live in countries where the average person doesn't generate even $5000 income per year (not to mention basic needs such as food comprising a large portion of their income). When the IMF says this is a 200-year debt high, that doesn't seem to register in the mind of people can only think in terms of life in western nations during their and their parents lifetime.
...

You see my theories in action. The people can't comprehend that their system is bankrupt and that there is no possible top-down solution. Laws can't turn 60-year old people into 20-year expert computer programmers, biotech experts, nanotech experts, etc.. The socialism destroyed (appropriate to the Knowledge Age) education, reproduction, and has set up a massive failure. You've got a society with mostly the wrong skills, the wrong understanding of what is possible, etc.. Instead the people have been busy creating that $150 trillion global debt by learning and doing vocations that are useless in the coming Knowledge Age. This is what debt does. It misallocates human capital (lifespans) by allowing them to do uneconomic activities.

...

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=316297.msg5402853#msg5402853

...

Google "life of the nobility in 1800s England" for example. The social structure had places for all, and this is being reintroduced. Any breach means [you lose your job].

A rich person without cooks and lawn keepers is the oddity, it's normal to have them.

You picked the wrong time period. Try again from 500 A.D. for about 600 years hence. The nobility had to live in heavily guarded castles to fend off the Robin Hoods.

That model works well after the chaos of the debt implosion when the social order can restabilize.

The problem right now is most of the population will be rendered unemployable, because there won't be enough rich to provide enough jobs for maids. And the computer automation will render the rest unemployed. Look at this for visual proof of what is coming at McDonalds (100% automation)!

Your IQ is too high to understand these things of simple life, you are 100% focused in your abstract concepts.

Somewhat true at times, but actually I lived in the Philippines during the Asian Crisis and saw what really happens during economic implosions. Even my eye was gouged out by one of those pissed off jobless. I saw kidnapping every where, even I had to be careful when driving my car outside the city boundary.

...

See also the Economic Devastation and the Mad Max threads. For example I mention there the 2013 Oxford U study that says 47% of all existing jobs will be lost to computer automation within 20 years.

[btcxyzzz]

OP is doin' som FUD. He want Bitcoin cheaper so he can buy. Don't fall for that theft arguments, it's stupid as hell.

[tins]

My 2 BTC were stolen when (using localbitcoins) I couldn't find a buyer to deposit to my USA bank account and I was in a rush. So I sold to someone who paid me in paypal. He had stolen access to someone's paypal account and so the payment was reversed.

Ahh, now I understand why you posted this!

With all due respect, you're an idiot for selling something via Paypal in person (or to any non-verified address). If you exchanged cash or gold for PayPal in person you would have been in the exact same situation. That doesn't mean cash or gold is bad.

Learn how to think for yourself. Be gladded the price of the lesson was only 2 BTC - it could have been worse.

This whole butthurt thread stems from the OP selling bitcoin for Paypal.  

Lol.  

[studio1one]

Wow. So Ego  Such self importance. Cool.

[yenom]

I get pretty sick and tired of the myopic view of paranoid schizophernic Americans. There is a world outside USA you know. Population of USA: 313 Million (2012 estimate). Population of the world: ~ 7 Billion. That means the USA is 4% of the world population.

Stop spouting on about the Fed and US law, it means jack shit to bitcoin.

[yenom]

For example I mention there the 2013 Oxford U study that says 47% of all existing jobs will be lost to computer automation within 20 years.

You need to study history and stop talking shit. As technology evolves, new jobs get created in new industries. When farming became mechanized in the early 19th century did all those displaced people sit idle and starve? No, they retrained and became wealthier in other work. During the computer revolution in the 1970s -1990s, did all the paper shufflers in banks, insurance companies and accountancy firms sit idle? No, they retrained into new exciting industries.

You display all the signs of a luddite.

[eldentyrell]

Indeed, although the clawback-fest will start with former mtgox customers who withdrew fiat:

  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=489927

[Zarathustra]

How about this going forward - financial services providers obtain insurance to cover them in the event of theft/fraud etc, and on the basis that they demonstrably exercise a duty of care and dilligence in their business dealings and in their fiduciary duty to their customers (it may be that the insurer requires a compliance with regulation perhaps ?).

   I buy 5 BTC on BTC-E that subsequently proves to have been stolen from XYZ exchange (and customers A ,B and C) - customers A, B and C receive their stolen BTC back. I (and BTC-E) receive recompense from the insurance company of exchange XYZ.  

Yes the banksters+government will take control of Bitcoin. That is of course the only solution. And of course it appears to have been designed to fall into their lap.

And who was Satoshi again? (Hint: most realize he was likely an NSA researcher or group of NSA researchers)

Most realize that NSA is paying people to spread BS as you do.

Bitcoin is the honeypot to suck in all the gullible Libertarians to their demise. And it helps to spread the NWO digital currency, which is taken over eventually.

"The Bitcoiners [and the Cypherpunks in general] are going to totally destroy your society and your "laws"

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=470593.0

[marcotheminer]

No one can access your wallet to return coins, EVEN IF THEY WERE STOLEN.

[RichG]

Everyone knows that Bitcoin isn't anonymous. How do you think Blockchain.info gets its data?

You've conflated two potentially orthogonal issues about anonymity.

It is theoretically possible to have a public ledger, yet also have widespread anonymity on the owners of those coins.

Bitcoin doesn't.

EXACTLY! Read the damn wiki!