Bitcoin Forum
September 22, 2018, 03:53:15 PM *
News: ♦♦ New info! Bitcoin Core users absolutely must upgrade to previously-announced 0.16.3 [Torrent]. All Bitcoin users should temporarily trust confirmations slightly less. More info.
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Pages: [1] 2 »  All
  Print  
Author Topic: Altcoin Discussion section can change name to Trash discussion  (Read 331 times)
examplens
Legendary
*
Online Online

Activity: 1218
Merit: 1021



View Profile
August 21, 2018, 12:25:45 PM
 #1

I looked at this section and there are 99% topics/posts repetitive, and people talking about "nothing". if the idea is to be spammers separate there It may be understandable.
Threads like:
Signature Campaign
Bounties
what alt coins worth the invest?
Which is the best Cryptocurrency to invest 2018?
Doing 2 or more ICO facebook campaign?

All of them have tons similar replies I doubt it was anyone reading this.
What to do with topics like these, report to a moderator?

███▄                 ▄███           ▄▄███▀▀█▄▄                   ▄▄█████▄▄           ███▄               ███    ▀██▄             ▄██▀
█████               ▄████       ▄▄████▄█ ██ ████▄▄           ▄▄████▀▀▀▀▀████▄▄       █████              ███      ███           ███
██████             ██████      ▀▀██▄█████▄▄███▄█▀▀▀         ███▀▀         ▀▀███      ███▀██▄            ███       ▀██▄       ▄██▀
███▀███▄         ▄██▀ ███     ███▄▀███▀████████ ████       ███               ███     ███  ███           ███         ███     ███
███  ▀███       ███▀  ███    █████ █████████  █▄▀▀▀▄█     ███                 ███    ███   ▀██▄         ███          ▀██▄ ▄██▀
███    ███▄   ▄███    ███   ▀████▀▄██████▀█████████▀██   ███                   ███   ███     ███        ███            ▀███▀
███     ▀███▄███▀     ███   █▄▄▄▄███  ████████▀███████   ███                   ███   ███      ▀██▄      ███            █████
███       █████       ███   ██▀██████████▀████████████   ███                   ███   ███        ███     ███           ██▀ ▀██
███        ▀█▀        ███    ███████▀████████▀▀▀███▄█     ███                 ███    ███         ▀██▄   ███         ▄██▀   ▀██▄
███                   ███
     █  █▀█████████ ███ ███       ███               ███     ███           ███  ███        ██▀       ▀██
███                   ███
      █████▀▄▄▀█▄██▄▀▀▀▄██         ███▄▄         ▄▄███      ███            ▀██▄███      ▄██▀         ▀██▄
███                   ███
       ▀▀██▄▀▀▄███▀████▀▀           ▀▀████▄▄▄▄▄████▀▀       ███              █████     ███             ███
███                   ███
           ▀▀██████▀▀                   ▀▀█████▀▀           ███               ▀███   ▄██▀               ▀██▄
.
.TRADE, EARN & OWN THE EXCHANGE
.████   WHITEPAPER    FACEBOOK    TWITTER    LINKEDIN    TELEGRAM    CRUNCHBASE   ████
   FREE   TRADING &
ICO LISTING
.SUPERIOR  TO NASDAQ
AND LSE
  US$ 29M  RAISED IN
2 WEEKS
[]
1537631595
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1537631595

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1537631595
Reply with quote  #2

1537631595
Report to moderator
1537631595
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1537631595

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1537631595
Reply with quote  #2

1537631595
Report to moderator
1537631595
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1537631595

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1537631595
Reply with quote  #2

1537631595
Report to moderator
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1537631595
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1537631595

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1537631595
Reply with quote  #2

1537631595
Report to moderator
1537631595
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1537631595

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1537631595
Reply with quote  #2

1537631595
Report to moderator
1537631595
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1537631595

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1537631595
Reply with quote  #2

1537631595
Report to moderator
mainconcept
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 434
Merit: 288


View Profile
August 21, 2018, 12:48:14 PM
 #2

Yeah, there are cascades of spam posts in several discussion threads, where spam posters are copying spam/shitposts from other spammers several pages before.

Just look at patrol. An army of newbie and jr. member accounts spinning posts and articles, the result is nonsense gibberish.

Thats bountytalk, not bitcointalk.

            ▄▄████▄▄
        ▄▄██████████████▄▄
      ███████████████████████▄▄
      ▀▀█████████████████████████
██▄▄       ▀▀█████████████████████
██████▄▄        ▀█████████████████
███████████▄▄       ▀▀████████████
███████████████▄▄        ▀████████
████████████████████▄▄       ▀▀███
 ▀▀██████████████████████▄▄
     ▀▀██████████████████████▄▄
▄▄        ▀██████████████████████▄
████▄▄        ▀▀██████████████████
█████████▄▄        ▀▀█████████████
█████████████▄▄        ▀▀█████████
██████████████████▄▄        ▀▀████
▀██████████████████████▄▄
  ▀▀████████████████████████
      ▀▀█████████████████▀▀
           ▀▀███████▀▀



.SEMUX
█ █
█ █
█ █
█ █
█ █
█ █
█ █
█ █
█ █
█ █
█ █
█ █
█ █
█ █
█ █
█ █
█ █
█ █
█ █
█ █
█ █
█ █
█ █
█ █
█ █
█ █
█ █
█ █
  Semux uses 100% original codebase
  Superfast with 30 seconds instant finality
  Tested 5000 tx per block on open network
█ █
█ █
█ █
█ █
█ █
█ █
█ █
█ █
█ █
█ █
█ █
█ █
█ █
█ █
atrocityx
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 266
Merit: 63


View Profile WWW
August 21, 2018, 05:00:21 PM
 #3

I doubt there's much you can really do to fix it without just downright over moderation.  All topics will be created again with a different title and spammed with the same responses.  Merit may limit the ranks you get but people will still have to spam their 10-20 posts a week to meet their signature requirements.  It's a battle lost long ago really.

lukeburchill
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 82
Merit: 17


View Profile
August 21, 2018, 06:55:31 PM
 #4

What to do with topics like these, report to a moderator?
Yes, report to the moderator or you can cooperate with [CLUB]The SpamBuster
cellard
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1134
Merit: 1145


View Profile
August 21, 2018, 07:06:35 PM
 #5

The altcoin section has undoubtedly a ton of shit posting but there's a lot of legit discussion there too, you just have to find the good threads. Part of the charm of that section is that you must really go deep in the tons of trash looking for gold, and sometimes you find some people actually talking something of value, even actual devs talking about their projects. It's not fair to call the entire thing trash tho.

This meta section has tons of people trying to recover their account due the massive backlog of unrecovered ones, it's literally filled with it, so similarly, you must search for threads that aren't the same thing a million times. Theymos said that he will fix it soon with an automated recovery system, so that should fix the meta section.

I wouldn't even waste time trying to moderate the altcoin section, this is a bitcoin forum after all. Just keep searching for the good content out there.

Welsh
Staff
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1358
Merit: 1367



View Profile
August 21, 2018, 07:11:49 PM
 #6

The altcoin section has undoubtedly a ton of shit posting but there's a lot of legit discussion there too, you just have to find the good threads.
That's the annoying part about it. There is actual worthy discussion there, but it just gets labeled as a trash place, because quite frankly the majority of it is trash. Unfortunately, the amount of trash that is there stops most people from visiting the place, and contributing with good quality content. Therefore, we are just lumbered with low quality posts from low quality members.

shield132
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 868
Merit: 523


Watch Agents Of Shield On ABC


View Profile
August 21, 2018, 08:29:39 PM
 #7

Can say the same on boards: Bitcoin Discussion, Trading discussion and sometimes Economics. We can discuss on bitcoin/altcoins when there is something new but here threads are created everyday, also old threads are bumped everytime. Trading discussion isn't wide but here is the same situation again. Aim is to just grow number of their posts.
To my mind best indicator of spam thread is not only title but replies to view ratio too.

.BITSLER.                 ▄███
               ▄████▀
             ▄████▀
           ▄████▀  ▄██▄
         ▄████▀    ▀████▄
       ▄████▀        ▀████▄
     ▄████▀            ▀████▄
   ▄████▀                ▀████▄
 ▄████▀ ▄████▄      ▄████▄ ▀████▄
█████   ██████      ██████   █████
 ▀████▄ ▀████▀      ▀████▀ ▄████▀
   ▀████▄                ▄████▀
     ▀████▄            ▄████▀
       ▀████▄        ▄████▀
         ▀████▄    ▄████▀
           ▀████▄▄████▀
             ▀██████▀
               ▀▀▀▀
▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▄            
▄▄▄▄▀▀▀▀    ▄▄█▄▄ ▀▀▄         
▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▄      
█  ▀▄▄  ▀█▀▀ ▄      ▀████   ▀▀▄   
█ █▄  ▀▄   ▀████       ▀▀ ▄██▄ ▀▀▄
▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀
█  ▀▀       ▀▄▄ ▀████      ▄▄▄▀▀▀  █
█            ▄ ▀▄    ▄▄▄▀▀▀   ▄▄  █
▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀
█ ▄▄   ███   ▀██  █           ▀▀  █ 
█ ███  ▀██       █        ▄▄      █ 
▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀  
▀▄            █        ▀▀      █  
▀▀▄   ███▄  █   ▄▄          █   
▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀    
▀▀▄   █   ▀▀▄▄▄▀▀▀         
▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄█▄▄▀▀▀▀              
              ▄▄▄██████▄▄▄
          ▄▄████████████████▄▄
        ▄██████▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀██████▄
▄     ▄█████▀             ▀█████▄
██▄▄ █████▀                ▀█████
 ████████            ▄██      █████
  ████████▄         ███▀       ████▄
  █████████▀▀     ▄███▀        █████
   █▀▀▀          █████         █████
     ▄▄▄         ████          █████
   █████          ▀▀           ████▀
    █████                     █████
     █████▄                 ▄█████
      ▀█████▄             ▄█████▀
        ▀██████▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄██████▀
          ▀▀████████████████▀▀
              ▀▀▀██████▀▀▀
            ▄▄▄███████▄▄▄
         ▄█▀▀▀ ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ ▀▀▀█▄
       █▀▀ ▄█████████████▄ ▀▀█
     █▀▀ ███████████████████ ▀▀█
    █▀ ███████████████████████ ▀█
   █▀ ███████████████▀▀ ███████ ▀█
 ▄█▀ ██████████████▀      ▀█████ ▀█▄
███ ███████████▀▀            ▀▀██ ███
███ ███████▀▀                     ███
███ ▀▀▀▀                          ███
▀██▄                             ▄██▀
  ▀█▄                            ▀▀
    █▄       █▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄█
     █▄      ▀█████████▀
      ▀█▄      ▀▀▀▀▀▀▀
        ▀▀█▄▄  ▄▄▄
            ▀▀█████
[]
LTU_btc
Hero Member
*****
Online Online

Activity: 994
Merit: 554

★YoBit.Net★ 350+ Coins Exchange & Dice


View Profile WWW
August 21, 2018, 08:30:10 PM
 #8

It was shitty year or two ago, but now it's indeed trash discussion. Now it's almost impossible to find real conversations there. Pretty much same situation on Bitcoin Discussion board and Economics. It's full of generic shitposts made by signature spammers and bots. And it's getting worse and worse day by day. Worst part of it that mods don't have power to change something here. And according to last post of theymos, there will be no significant changes in near future - it seams that he don't want to add suggested restrictions which may help to increase quality of posts in these boards.

Docnaster
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 630
Merit: 521



View Profile
August 21, 2018, 09:15:47 PM
 #9

It wasn't this bad last year, probably because the market was in a huge bull run, and people actually had promising news and realistic speculation to talk about.  Nowadays everything is in the red and people are just scrambling for the scraps. I wouldn't expect that section to improve until the market does, it seems that they go hand in hand.


       █
      ██
     ██
   ██ ██
 █ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
██ ██ ██

       █
      ██
     ██
   ██ ██
 █ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
██ ██ ██
  B

          ▄▄▄▄▄▄
     ▄▄████████████▄▄
   ▄█████▀▀    ▀▀█████▄
  ████▀            ▀████
 ████                ████
▐███                  ███▌
███▌                  ▐███
▐███           ▄▄     ███▌
 ████         ▀███▄  ▐███
  ████▄         ▀███▄███
   ▀█████▄▄     ▄█████▀
     ▀▀████████████▀▀
          ▀▀▀▀▀▀
T 
.Better. Quick..

.Transparent....






             ▄████▄▄   ▄
█▄          ██████████▀▄
███        ███████████▀
▐████▄     ██████████▌
▄▄██████▄▄▄▄█████████▌
▀████████████████████
  ▀█████████████████
  ▄▄███████████████
   ▀█████████████▀
    ▄▄█████████▀
▀▀██████████▀
    ▀▀▀▀▀






▄█████████████████████████▄
███████████████████████████
███████████████▀       ████
██████████████      ▄▄▄████
██████████████    ▐████████
██████████████    ▐████████
██████████            ▐████
██████████            █████
██████████████    ▐████████
██████████████    ▐████████
██████████████    ▐████████
▀█████████████    ▐███████▀






                   ▄▄████
              ▄▄████████▌
         ▄▄█████████▀███
    ▄▄██████████▀▀ ▄███▌
▄████████████▀▀  ▄█████
▀▀▀███████▀   ▄███████▌
      ██    ▄█████████
       █  ▄██████████▌
       █  ███████████
       █ ██▀ ▀██████▌
       ██▀     ▀████
                 ▀█▌
Welsh
Staff
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1358
Merit: 1367



View Profile
August 21, 2018, 09:19:37 PM
 #10

Most of the topics there need to be archived/locked or removed entirely. The discussion has long come to an end, but its easy for bounty participants to add a generic post in the thread, and get paid for it. The underlying issue is how easy it is to make an account, and start making money through bounties, because of the low standards of acceptance from altcoins.

MainIbem
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 490
Merit: 258



View Profile WWW
August 21, 2018, 11:51:18 PM
 #11

The altcoin section has undoubtedly a ton of shit posting but there's a lot of legit discussion there too, you just have to find the good threads.
That's the annoying part about it. There is actual worthy discussion there, but it just gets labeled as a trash place, because quite frankly the majority of it is trash. Unfortunately, the amount of trash that is there stops most people from visiting the place, and contributing with good quality content. Therefore, we are just lumbered with low quality posts from low quality members.
Perception is the key word. So many people perceive that section as a junk. Yes to a great degree it is junk but that is the starting point for many people. Every new member who joins bitcointalk forum heads straight to the altcoins section. I see it as the training ground of bitcointalk forum.

mu_enrico
Copper Member
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 266
Merit: 146


Indonesia Patrol Squad


View Profile WWW
August 22, 2018, 01:41:13 AM
 #12

Most of the topics there need to be archived/locked or removed entirely. The discussion has long come to an end, but its easy for bounty participants to add a generic post in the thread, and get paid for it. The underlying issue is how easy it is to make an account, and start making money through bounties, because of the low standards of acceptance from altcoins.
It's nice to see you as a staff mate. Indeed, the problem is that bounty managers weren't professional. They accept spammers and don't really care about the quality. They only care about quantity. I think we've made progress since Lord Theymos approved this suggestion:

Quote
• Enforce the sig campaign guidelines. If a campaign is spotted that is doing little to nothing and is abused en mass by spammers, farmers, bots and copy and pasters they are warned. If nothing changes then they are punished with such things as bans, threads trashed, signatures blacklisted site-wide etc.

K O N I O S        |│        The World's Most Secure Cash & Crypto Platform
[   PRE-ICO  |  DONE   ]      [ AIRDROP | DONE ]      [    ICO  |  LIVE    ]
WHITEPAPER                       TWITTER                       TELEGRAM                       ANN THREAD
Pearls Before Swine
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 686
Merit: 260



View Profile
August 22, 2018, 01:51:51 AM
 #13

Altcoin discussion should be great, but it isn't.  Altcoins are hot and are worth discussing, but unfortunately most of the posters in that section are only doing it to earn money...actually, tokens which are only loosely thought of as 'money'.

Take a look at the campaign I'm in, BlocVehicle.  Altcoin discussion is one of only a few sections they pay for posts in.  I am not criticizing that in any way, and it isn't an inherently a bad thing, but we all know that if a campaign only pays for posts in sections X and Y, sections X and Y will be overwhelmed with sig campaigners writing things you can barely understand.  I don't know what the rest of the campaigns are like, but sig bounties are all about altcoins so that's where the BHs post.

The administrator is being kind in allowing altcoin discussion to exist, and imo it probably shouldn't.  It might be the worst section on the forum as op pointed out.  Maybe the forum needs more reporting of bad posts?  Don't know how active the altcoin mod is, but I have seen some doozies that should have been deleted.
Welsh
Staff
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1358
Merit: 1367



View Profile
August 22, 2018, 04:09:10 AM
 #14

I don't see Altcoin Discussion as a training ground for Bitcointalk. After all, it is Bitcointalk, and not cryptotalk or something along those lines.

The administrator is being kind in allowing altcoin discussion to exist, and imo it probably shouldn't.  It might be the worst section on the forum as op pointed out.  Maybe the forum needs more reporting of bad posts?  Don't know how active the altcoin mod is, but I have seen some doozies that should have been deleted.
That's certainly a case. For a forum this size I would expect there to be more users reporting. But, there isn't that many users that do report. Its always the same users reporting. Again, its understandable because its a real pain in the arse to do, and has no rewards whatsoever at the moment. But, hopefully with the introduction of reporting badges that will change.

TheQuin
Hero Member
*****
Online Online

Activity: 672
Merit: 672


Freebitco.in Forum Dude https://bit.ly/2I9BVS2


View Profile WWW
August 22, 2018, 06:01:39 AM
 #15

For a forum this size I would expect there to be more users reporting. But, there isn't that many users that do report. Its always the same users reporting. Again, its understandable because its a real pain in the arse to do, and has no rewards whatsoever at the moment. But, hopefully with the introduction of reporting badges that will change.

I think something more important than a badge is required.

The underlying issue is how easy it is to make an account, and start making money through bounties, because of the low standards of acceptance from altcoins.

The real issue is that after putting effort into reporting, finding plagiarism takes time, it doesn't decrease the spam. After seeing theymos' response to the suggestions put forward it is clear that nothing is going to be done in the near future. That does more to demotivate people from reporting than a badge will fix.

lukeburchill
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 82
Merit: 17


View Profile
August 22, 2018, 07:14:09 AM
 #16

Quote
The real issue is that after putting effort into reporting, finding plagiarism takes time, it doesn't decrease the spam.
but at least their account (spammer) is banned or gets red trust after being reported.

Quote
That does more to demotivate people from reporting than a badge will fix
I appreciate applying the badge that will be a motivation for more reporter voluntary.
LoyceV
Legendary
*
Online Online

Activity: 1246
Merit: 1979


Let's make Bitcointalk great again!


View Profile WWW
August 22, 2018, 07:21:52 AM
 #17

I don't see Altcoin Discussion as a training ground for Bitcointalk. After all, it is Bitcointalk, and not cryptotalk or something along those lines.
In their defense: altcoins didn't exist when Bitcointalk was created. In my opinion, a healthy (with the emphasis on healthy) altcoin discussion fits this forum perfectly.

vlad230
Full Member
***
Online Online

Activity: 280
Merit: 209


Vod's BTT Public Information Project - bpip.org


View Profile
August 22, 2018, 07:40:38 AM
 #18

The altcoin discussion section is full of spam, you are right, but if you take a closer look there are a few decent posts.

Unfortunately the good posts are buried very fast by the spam in there. This has been discussed numerous time here as well but a good solution to stopping it is yet to be discovered.

TheQuin
Hero Member
*****
Online Online

Activity: 672
Merit: 672


Freebitco.in Forum Dude https://bit.ly/2I9BVS2


View Profile WWW
August 22, 2018, 08:31:36 AM
 #19

Quote
The real issue is that after putting effort into reporting, finding plagiarism takes time, it doesn't decrease the spam.
but at least their account (spammer) is banned or gets red trust after being reported.

That's the problem, it is no loss to them if it is Newbie or Jr. Member they can simply start again. I'll still report higher ranked accounts as they will suffer by losing them but it is a waste of time banning the ones they can just replace.

Heisenberg_Hunter
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 266
Merit: 124



View Profile
August 22, 2018, 10:10:27 AM
 #20

Can we have a separate board for Altcoin Technical Support & Discussion ?
This was a thread of mine started in April. Some of the members argued that they don't need a Alt Tech Support board(in the sense they don't need a good and healthy discussion to take place in the Alt Section) If they disagree with this, then why should something like a Altcoin Discussion Board exist at first? For the spammers to post some bullshit to complete their weekly criteria?

Alts are really helpful in solving many real world problems which bitcoin cannot. On the other hand, this is not a bitcoin forum! I believe that this forum has evolved into a large cryptocurrency forum!

There are some very common repetitive shit threads which are created at least twice a day for comparing Eth and Bitcoin or some other common alts.
If we really need a good discussion to take place we need to request theymos for the Tech Board or something similar like that and I think it won't happen either. At sometimes I just jump into the 20th-30th page of the board and find real good questions which needs an answer.

Some common bounty threads be like

1. I have X$, in which should I invest (this investment amount may even reach thousands of dollars at times Grin)
2. Will shitcoin beat bitcoin?
3. When will shitcoin moon?
4. When will I become a millionaire?
5. How much have you earned in bounties till now?
6. Job Vs Bounties (Should I leave my job for doing bounties?)

These bounty idiots doesn't even know how a cryptocurrency works and are talking shit in this forum...

Quote
What to do with topics like these, report to a moderator?
Reporting won't solve the problem and there are spams generating endlessly by members now and then. And if the mods lock a mega useless thread, another mega thread is created within seconds.
So, It's better to leave the section untouched to rot and just search for the good threads which are buried in there. Theymos would come to a conclusion, if the board becomes uncontrollable by mods in future.

█        ★★★★★ TrustedCars Flex ★★★★★       
     │ ★★★★★ Changing Car Ownership Forever ★★★★★ │     
█  Website Token Sale up to 25% Bonus ANN Thread Telegram │ 
Pages: [1] 2 »  All
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!