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Author Topic: Community generated suggestions to improve the forum (+ eventual voting on them)  (Read 5818 times)
iasenko
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August 19, 2018, 04:17:08 PM
 #81

Is only an idea!

Maybe it is possible to implement 2FA Authentication via Google or even a 2FA Authentication Device for users who want to protect their account as well as possible!
Many exchanges have this and other platforms too!
I know that this is probably expensive but think that it is the safest solution or would be for accounts to protect them from hackers!

It has been discussed many times. It is planned to be implemented in the new forum software, but when this is going to happen nobody knows. I think even theymos is not sure about it.

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August 20, 2018, 03:41:24 PM
 #82

I don't think I saw this.

Not critical but it would be nice if the Report to moderator page, came up in a separate tab. The same way the Merit page does.

It's a small annoyance when I go to report someone in the middle of reading a topic then I have to go looking for them. It's small and easily doable if I'm not mistaken Theymos made the change rather quickly when VOD suggested it for Merit.

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August 20, 2018, 03:45:17 PM
 #83

Not critical but it would be nice if the Report to moderator page, came up in a separate tab. The same way the Merit page does.

Middle click or right click and Open link in new tab.

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August 20, 2018, 03:54:47 PM
 #84

Is it possible to capture the user who is trying to access your account (when there is a failed log-in attempt) by using the front camera of the device if possible? and the image captured will be sent directly to your email address that is associated in in your account. Some security app supports this feature and I don't know if SMF or any website supports this feature but this would be somehow a cool one. But will be useless if the device's camera is covered.

As far as I know only applications are capable of this kind of feature so it can be added as security feature once there is a official app for Bitcointalk  Grin but still a bad idea since application softwares are reversedengineer-able or can be modified to use for phishing.

NSA DETECTED! What is this, 1984? This is ridiculous.

But just in case, I have some tape on it as a physical confirmation that it's not doing this.

Same. Clearly he hasn't seen Citizenfour.

I think spying on users fits in the same category as KYC on Bitcointalk:
I'll get right on that, just as soon as hell freezes over.

Sadly, I think hell will be more likely to freeze over before anything gets implemented here.

I don't think I saw this.

Not critical but it would be nice if the Report to moderator page, came up in a separate tab. The same way the Merit page does.

It's a small annoyance when I go to report someone in the middle of reading a topic then I have to go looking for them. It's small and easily doable if I'm not mistaken Theymos made the change rather quickly when VOD suggested it for Merit.

I think more people would find this annoying than helpful. I dislike how we have to go to a separate page to give merit, but merit should just be pumped up somehow without having to go to a separate page at all. And as TheQuin said you can just open it in a new page anyway.

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August 20, 2018, 04:00:30 PM
 #85

Not critical but it would be nice if the Report to moderator page, came up in a separate tab. The same way the Merit page does.
Use your middle mouse button to open a tab in the background. I wish Merit would work the same as "Report", with Report I can choose to open it in the same tab if I want to.

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August 20, 2018, 06:44:05 PM
Merited by hilariousandco (1)
 #86

Not critical but it would be nice if the Report to moderator page, came up in a separate tab. The same way the Merit page does.
Use your middle mouse button to open a tab in the background. I wish Merit would work the same as "Report", with Report I can choose to open it in the same tab if I want to.

Easy there mate! Did you just assume that everyone uses a mouse which has a middle button? Not everyone can afford a mouse like that.
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August 21, 2018, 12:18:08 AM
Merited by Joel_Jantsen (2), mdayonliner (1)
 #87

None of these ideas are new to me. Even if I don't respond to suggestions, I do read them, and they float around in my mind going forward. If it's not already done, then there's some reason why. A big possible reason is that I'm the only person who does development on the current code, and my time is limited. Another big reason is that this is a huge forum with complex dynamics, and even small policy changes can have big effects which need to be thought through very carefully.

An example: a bump button sounds good as a fix for certain very visible problems, but it also codifies a broken system. People would use bots to bump all of their threads constantly, giving "industrial" posters a huge advantage over casual posters. A captcha could maybe help a little, but there are services where you can pay a tiny fee to have captchas solved for you. (Which opens another question: maybe a comparatively tiny fee should be allowed as an alternative to having you solve a captcha.) A better solution would be to replace the concept of traditional bumping with something quite different, with different bumping models for different types of sections. But that requires further thought. If implementing a bump button was free, perhaps it'd be worthwhile to at least do it for now and fix a few minor problems with bumping today. But since it's a clearly-imperfect solution, this isn't even on my miles-long to-do list.

I'm not going to respond here in detail to all of these ideas. It'd be extremely long. I will classify them as OK/maybe/no:

Quote
• A newbie welcome message or link to a welcome thread upon sign-up explaining the basic rules and links to everything they need to know including the full forum rules, helpful guides and FAQs etc. No excuses for not knowing the rules then.
• Dedicated sub board mods for most boards that don't have any mods or non-global mods already assigned (Bitcoin Discussion, Beginners & Help, Off Topic etc).
• More patrollers/mods who just handle sig spam or farmers.
• Restoring the memberlist search and stats (very useful for finding huge farming abuses).
• Enforce the sig campaign guidelines. If a campaign is spotted that is doing little to nothing and is abused en mass by spammers, farmers, bots and copy and pasters they are warned. If nothing changes then they are punished with such things as bans, threads trashed, signatures blacklisted site-wide etc.
• A 'bump button' for the marketplace that only allows you to bump your thread once every 24 hours. Manually bumping by posting will then be disallowed. As mentioned above, posts by lower ranked accounts could not be able to bump threads thus curbing potential abuse.
• A report queue for reported messages. Currently every global and admin are spammed by any reported message and half of the time when you go to handle it it has already been handled, thus wasting everybody's time.
• More admins or demi-admins added to help with account recoveries and other admin duties.
• A captcha added to a user's first post or two/three etc to curb bot usage (purchasing a Copper Membership could remove these).
• Require email verification for new accounts.
• Require email verification first before passwords/emails are changed.
• A Beginners and Help board for the Alt Coin section (the bitcoin one is mostly swamped with alt coin and bounty-related issues).
• Add badges as a reward for high reporters and/or merited users (some perks would also be nice). Maybe we could have a 'most merited' user of the month badge. Prizes or awards could be given at the end of the month/year for the biggest rats/grasses/ass-kissers merited users or reporters.
• More options for self-moderated threads (being able to limit participation to certain ranks ie no Newbies or Juniors etc or banning certain users from being able to post in your thread at all to stop trolls and personal attacks etc).
• Signature bans. Bans that remove the signature for x amount of time or even permanently (actually proposed by theymos but never followed up on). Being able to blacklist an entire campaign's signature would also be helpful for those campaigns that refuse to do anything about spam.
• Certain sub boards shouldn't count to post count or activity (Bounties, Games & Rounds and possibly Off Topic).
• Awarding merit doesn't take you to a new page. Clicking the merit button multiple times could pump up the merit one by one. This would make awarding merit much swifter and less annoying.

OK in principle, would require thought/adjustment/implementation. Many of these things are more complex than they look at first glance.

Quote
• Charging ICOs a fee to make their ANN here. You could even get rid of the ANN board completely and give them their own sub once they've paid the fee. If there's no Ann board then there will probably be no paid bumping because it will be useless, but let them spam away in their own slum and squalor.
• A dedicated Marketplace for the Alt Coin board that would be used for currency sales/exchanges and advertising/requesting services etc (the current one has no description and is being used as catch all for anything and everyting and not what it was intended for).
• Requiring manually whitelisting of all new accounts before they can post. All new users will essentially be shadowbanned until they've been verified by a mod. This will eliminate 99% of bots and spammers before they even start. Spam threads can be trashed on sight before they even become spam megathreads.
• Press board locked/archived as it's served its purpose
• Some local boards have Press and Off topic subs. They should be removed as they're hotbeds for account farmers/spammers and are not necessary here.
• Warnings in red displayed to lower ranked users when they go to post alerting them to the most commonly ignored/broken rules.
• A sub board for highly merited users to encourage constructive topics only by users who have proven their worth here over time (or make the Ivory Tower merit requirement much higher [OMG ITS LIKE SOVIET RUSSIA GULAG]).

Maybe.

Quote
• A publicly displayed 'banned' rank under a person's username for permabanned accounts (people are wasting both theirs and staffs time reporting already banned users and bots).
• Implementing a redirect notice/landing page for when users click an external link urging them to double check the url for phishing and possibly warning them of the dangers of buying things from autobuy links and that they should likely use a trusted escrow etc).
• Require at least one merit to become a Junior Member (bots will never rise past Newbie status then and can be nuked once spotted).
• More donator ranks such as Silver and Gold Member that come with additional perks such as avatars and Full/Hero member-sized signatures etc (which will severely curb account farming and sales). You could also even have an expensive premium 'Platinum' rank (bling bling) that comes with further benefits (for example: image banner in signature, animated gif avatar, custom title, ability to change username etc).
• Remove signatures completely from everyone (or everyone only has a basic signature) and to get one you either need a very high amount of activity & merit or:
B) Buy them via new donator ranks (theymos did initially comment: "This may be a good idea. Though I do think that people who don't pay should be able to get a small signature." [though Newbie signatures have been removed completely since this comment was made]).
• Posts from lower ranked accounts don't bump ICO threads to the top (which would then render paid bump spam useless).
• Two report buttons/queues: one for sig spam and low quality posts and one everything else that is more urgent (hundreds of reports on spam posts are currently burying more important reports).
• A new member rank after Legendary as it is becoming far too common now and will only become more so as time passes. I would suggest fixing Legendary at 960 activity and the new rank is double that at 1920. You could also make the merit requirement very high for this rank so it's only for the crème de la crème of users [OMG NAZI RANK ITS LIKE THE RICH KEEP GETTING RICHER].
• Additional perks for Legendary accounts or a higher rank if added (for example: custom title, image banner in signature, clickable link in personal text, access to exclusive sub board etc).
• A captcha added to deleting a post.
• Disallowing lower ranks from posting in Off Topic (this is bitcoin forum, why would they head to that board straight away other than to easily farm their accounts (alternatively, posts not counting towards postcount or activity there would also work).
• If a post is removed then so is any merit awarded (I think some users are deleting posts to hide evidence of abuse).
• More advertisement slots. This forum is badly under-monetised in my opinion and we likely lose hundreds of thousands in lost revenue to signatures and lack of ad slots and visibility.

No. Or not yet. Or the idea would need to be significantly modified.

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August 21, 2018, 12:21:50 AM
 #88

None of these ideas are new to me. Even if I don't respond to suggestions, I do read them, and they float around in my mind going forward.

I was always on your side Theymos!!!!

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August 21, 2018, 12:53:57 AM
Merited by Vod (2), LoyceV (1), hilariousetc (1)
 #89

I'm not going to respond here in detail to all of these ideas. It'd be extremely long. I will classify them as OK/maybe/no:

Could you elaborate at least on the "No" part a little bit? Some of it I could guess but e.g. displaying the banned status sounds like a simple feature with no downside so I'm curious why it's on the "No" list.

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August 21, 2018, 05:20:50 AM
 #90

Another big reason is that this is a huge forum with complex dynamics, and even small policy changes can have big effects which need to be thought through very carefully.

Without doubt i agree with this part, some changes may sound very easy and fast to do (and probably they even are) but they could have implications in some other part of the code or with a functionality itself you didn't anticipated, bringing some unpleasant cascade effect.

Since in here the the stakes are high is good to be cautious.



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August 21, 2018, 06:29:11 AM
Last edit: August 21, 2018, 06:43:49 AM by athanz88
 #91

So, after reading the post from Theymos, i think that there is one main problem that needed to be solved by the administrator side, before they can start with the forum problems, which is this
Quote
A big possible reason is that I'm the only person who does development on the current code, and my time is limited
Even if we have and suggest a great suggestion, it would take a long time for it to be implemented because the lack of person in charge of coding. This is a hard situation and hard to be solved because finding a partner who is honest and devoted to this kind of job is hard, and if admin pick a wrong guy, it could destroy the forum and all of us in many ways.

Kind of dilemma though.
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August 21, 2018, 07:55:29 AM
 #92

I'm a bit disappointed that my delegated merit awarding suggestion didn't appear in the lists. That would be a great help for good posters on the local boards, and it would help the responsible merits sources to distribute sMerits for the benefit of the forum.

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August 21, 2018, 08:32:06 AM
Merited by LoyceV (1), Thekool1s (1), LTU_btc (1), mjglqw (1), TheQuin (1), DdmrDdmr (1)
 #93

None of these ideas are new to me. Even if I don't respond to suggestions, I do read them, and they float around in my mind going forward.

I'm not saying all of these are good suggestions and some probably won't help much if at all to combat certain issues, but I'm just brainstorming here to try plug some of the holes of what I believe to be a sinking ship. I'd much rather you just say my ideas were crap or just a simple 'no' (as you have now done) than remain silent for years on them because everyone is in the dark. At least I know I can drop certain suggestions if they're unlikely to ever be implemented and move on to trying something else.

A big possible reason is that I'm the only person who does development on the current code, and my time is limited. Another big reason is that this is a huge forum with complex dynamics, and even small policy changes can have big effects which need to be thought through very carefully.


Everybody knows and respects the fact that you're busy and making changes isn't always as easy as clicking a few buttons or writing a bit of code and requires future thought of how changes will effect things in the grand scheme of things here and it's good you do that, but when there's just silence for years things just get worse and worse and nobody knows what to think or whether something is a good or terrible idea or not. It's incredibly frustrating for both staff and members alike when we can see the forum crumbling before our eyes being overrun with bots and spammers and we're making suggestions to try prevent further deterioration and we're just ignored. Years pass and the forum just gets exponentially worse with each passing one and that's only going to continue the longer we leave it.

An example: a bump button sounds good as a fix for certain very visible problems, but it also codifies a broken system.

A bump button is the least of our worries to be honest. Putting a warning when they go to post to maybe follow the rules in the Marketplace and/or a reminder to only bump once every 24 hours and remove the bump when they do would be a quicker/easier fix. Linking the rules to users upon sign up would also give them the information as many just aren't even aware of the rules here.

I'm not going to respond here in detail to all of these ideas. It'd be extremely long. I will classify them as OK/maybe/no:

• A newbie welcome message or link to a welcome thread upon sign-up explaining the basic rules and links to everything they need to know including the full forum rules, helpful guides and FAQs etc. No excuses for not knowing the rules then.

This could be done very simply and quickly, right? Can we do this ASAP as soon as we've got it ready? New users would then have no excuses for not reading the rules.

• Dedicated sub board mods for most boards that don't have any mods or non-global mods already assigned (Bitcoin Discussion, Beginners & Help, Off Topic etc).

Same for this. You sent me the list of highest reporters in Bitcoin Discussion a few weeks ago and there was a clear standout. Unless you know something about him that I don't then I think he would make a good sub mod and patroller. Other staff could volunteer for other boards, but I think one or two of the users who have reported thousands of posts have probably also earned or are deserving a place as mod by now. We've lost far more staff over the past few years than have been replaced and the forum only continues to grow so we need to occasionally add them to meet demand. More staff = less workload and stress for other mods and the board improves in the process.

• More admins or demi-admins added to help with account recoveries and other admin duties.

Why don't you add another? This seems like a quick fix for a few things. If there was more staff and admins added you and cyrus would be bothered less and less. You would be less annoyed by the barrage of PMs and users would be less frustrated and every other Global will then stop being spammed with the same questions for things they don't have the authority to do. It's pointless you two even being messaged about certain things like account restorations if you're not doing them at all which currently seems to be the case. I could even do admin duties full time here if you wanted and I'm practically on the forum all day anyway, but something tells me if I was going to be made an admin it would have happened by now. If you don't trust me to do it for whatever reasons then fair enough but there must be someone else who can do it on staff - Mprep, rickbig, Mitchell or one of the other long-standing mods. Maybe even ask one of the veteran/trusted users here like vod or whoever (in b4 quickseller complains). If none of us are suitable have you spoken to BadBear recently? Maybe try email him asking if he'll come back. You mentioned a while ago that you've considered hiring someone to run the forum so why not hire BadBear? It makes sense for him to do it over some Marlon Rando. BadBear was a great admin as you also said and he knows how the forum works, which would make sense rather than hiring someone external who has to learn all the ways of the world here which wouldn't be easy or something you can learn in a short time.

• Enforce the sig campaign guidelines. If a campaign is spotted that is doing little to nothing and is abused en mass by spammers, farmers, bots and copy and pasters they are warned. If nothing changes then they are punished with such things as bans, threads trashed, signatures blacklisted site-wide etc.

This needs to happen asap as they're the ones causing the rapid deterioration of the forum in the first place which makes it unfit for purpose and enforcing this would have a tremendous knock on effect on the quality and usability of the forum. I've banned at least 50 users (mostly Juniors) who were copy and pasting content on the Elon City campaign the past month or so. I've no idea how many Rickbig or mprep has banned and could be even more than I have. Elon City accept anyone with no checks and this is why it's exploited by copy and paste bots and spammers. This can't be acceptable. I say we set up some sort of rules where if 5 or 10 users are caught copy and pasting on your campaign or the same amount of users are banned for low quality posts then your campaign gets the ban as well. If this starts happening then campaigns will start doing their job and it will become less common that we have to issue bans because the culture of campaigns doing nothing will change very fast. This forum is too valuable for them to not be able to advertise here for free so they'll start playing by the rules very quickly. If they can hire people to spam for them then they can hire people to manage their campaign as well.

• A Beginners and Help board for the Alt Coin section (the bitcoin one is mostly swamped with alt coin and bounty-related issues).

Can this be done soon? People are getting annoyed at all the alt coin spam in Bitcoin Beginners. The Alt coin marketplace is also unusable as it is because it's being used as a catch-all for everything and not for trades/services as intended.

Can you comment some short reasons to some of the No's?

• A publicly displayed 'banned' rank under a person's username for permabanned accounts (people are wasting both theirs and staffs time reporting already banned users and bots).

This is already shown to staff, but is there some issue in making this public? I don't necessarily think we should show temp bans but if a person's account is done here then I see no issue in that.

• Require at least one merit to become a Junior Member (bots will never rise past Newbie status then and can be nuked once spotted).

Can you elaborate on this one? To me a merit requirement to become Junior or their signature removed completely is essential and I think most of the community agrees. It can't be acceptable for bots to be able to earn from signature campaigns and wasn't the merit system introduced to curb account farming? It stops spammers from moving up to higher ranks but doesn't stop them from farming hundreds of Juniors and spamming and earning from them which people are now doing and this needs to chnage. One merit to become Junior isn't a lot to ask and most people seem to agree it should be higher. Removing signatures from them completely shouldn't be a big issue either as you did so for Newbies and Juniors barely have anything there now anyway, but this doesn't stop campaigns from paying them for it and that's the whole crux of the issue. People can still purchase Copper Membership to get a limited one anyway.

• More donator ranks such as Silver and Gold Member that come with additional perks such as avatars and Full/Hero member-sized signatures etc (which will severely curb account farming and sales). You could also even have an expensive premium 'Platinum' rank (bling bling) that comes with further benefits (for example: image banner in signature, animated gif avatar, custom title, ability to change username etc).

That's a shame, though I hope someday they will be implemented like Copper was. I think it will severely deter account farming or people trying to purchase merits just to move up ranks. I hope they'll be on the new forum at least.

• A new member rank after Legendary as it is becoming far too common now and will only become more so as time passes. I would suggest fixing Legendary at 960 activity and the new rank is double that at 1920.

A new rank obviously isn't essential right now but I think a new one will be needed eventually or the forum will just be full of Legendaries. A new rank with a very high merit requirement would mean only the best posters achieved it. It would be a nice thing for Legendaries to aim to achieve once they've hit that rank as there's nothing after it.

Also, you forgot to comment about Lambos for staff?  Yes/no/maybe?  Cheesy

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vlad230
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August 21, 2018, 09:05:59 AM
 #94

That is a nice list you have there, I hope they will be implemented sooner than later.

I have also brought 2 possible improvement ideas to the forum some time back:

I would appreciate it if you could take a look over them and if they look good to you, add them to the OP.
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August 21, 2018, 10:38:24 AM
Merited by hilariousandco (1)
 #95

@theymos
Once you have some free time, please elaborate the No part a little bit especially for the permaban tag + 1 merit (at least) to become a Junior Member.
This will help us improving our suggestion in the future.

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August 21, 2018, 11:56:35 AM
Merited by hilariousetc (1)
 #96

Quote
None of these ideas are new to me. Even if I don't respond to suggestions, I do read them, and they float around in my mind going forward.

Quote
A big possible reason is that I'm the only person who does development on the current code, and my time is limited.

Since none of these ideas are new to you, Theymos I think it's about time you start hiring devs who can work on features you deem worthy. Don't give them access to the live version of bitcointalk but instead ask them to build these features on a local version and before implementing them on the live version. You can validate/verify the code yourself. Should decrease the burden on you. If paying these devs will be an issue, many ideas have already been suggested here to generate an income for the forum.

Quote
Another big reason is that this is a huge forum with complex dynamics, and even small policy changes can have big effects which need to be thought through very carefully.

Agreed! but the current policies are destroying it! Unless you see bot-accounts/farmers/Spammers as growth.


Quote
Charging ICOs a fee to make their ANN here. You could even get rid of the ANN board completely and give them their own sub once they've paid the fee. If there's no Ann board then there will probably be no paid bumping because it will be useless, but let them spam away in their own slum and squalor.

This should be implemented right away. Many "Money Making" Forums charge upwards of $500 per week for different HYIP programs to get listed. Imagine what these ICOs will be willing to pay who "actually" have a "Vision" behind them... Roll Eyes

I believe this doesn't even require any coding of sorts just needs your approval.
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August 21, 2018, 12:45:18 PM
 #97

A big possible reason is that I'm the only person who does development on the current code, and my time is limited.

SMF is open source, right? Have you considered soliciting help from the community in the form of patches / peer review / testing?

Another big reason is that this is a huge forum with complex dynamics, and even small policy changes can have big effects which need to be thought through very carefully.

This is probably more complicated than PHP code but perhaps if you could make more data available publicly you could get help from the community here as well.

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August 21, 2018, 12:55:23 PM
Merited by hilariousetc (1)
 #98

@theymos, "sir",  Tongue
We respect the fact that you are too busy with your own things, and it is not easy at all to do all this along with that, but at least things, like assigning more mods for patrolling, a welcome message for new users containing rules and guidelines, requiring at least 1 Merit to become Jr. member, or forcing campaigns or their managers to do their work and discourage spam, that don't require a lot of time and effort nor any extra thinking over them should be implemented ASAP.
Postponing every single one of these issues will only make them worse in future IMO.
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August 21, 2018, 03:03:20 PM
 #99

or forcing campaigns or their managers to do their work and discourage spam,

This one falls into the "regulations" category and I don't think there will ever be a forced action. What's far more likely is the easy thing of removing/banning paid signatures.

For now I would say this falls onto the DT network to tag managers who allow spammy shitposters to clog up the forum. While also reporting and tagging said posters.

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August 21, 2018, 03:28:36 PM
 #100

I guess KYC for all the members is a must to avoid bots or anyone having so many accounts.

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