No threads on the ETN?

[cellard]

Everyone seems to be obsessed with the SEC's approval or rejection of the next phase of the ETF in a couple of days, which will be obviously dennied and my thesis is the market is smart enough to know this and so the rejection is already priced in which means there will be no dump.

However, no one seems to be talking about the ETN, which would allow investors immediate access to "BTC shares" without all the bullshit that the ETF needs.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-08-15/lovelorn-u-s-bitcoin-etf-fans-may-find-satisfaction-in-sweden

More info there. Looks like it's already opened? didn't do much market wise.

ETNs are not exactly similar to ETFs. In ETN, the notes are traded with a significant amount of premium unlike ETF. For ETF, there is no premium to be paid on the price of the underlying asset. So ETF is more suitable for the small investors like us compared to ETN. Probably that is the reason we are not seeing much excitement about ETN among the community.

Also an ETN is usually backed by a physical asset. However, I am not sure in this case. Most probably this ETN is backed by physical bitcoins. That is the reason why we have not seen any impact on the market either.

Not really. With an ETF, at least in the initial stages, you are going to need to be pretty much rich to invest. There are 0 chances that a low entry investment ETF gets passed, and the only ones that have a (low) probability of passing are the so called "certified investors" or whatever they deem it, basically it means that you must have a lot of money to own even 1 share. Consider that the latest effort was a 25 BTC-per-share ETF, so forget about small investors. ETN will have to do it while the ETFs remain for "qualified investors" only.

I predict that after the first ETF is passed, then we'll have lower and lower entry ETFs so the small investor will be able to own some too.

As far as these being derivatives of derivatives or whatever... for me it's all the same. If you don't own your keys you own 0 BTC, so who cares if people choose ETN or ETF, not my problem, they will have to consider what suits their needs or incapacity of keeping BTC's safe on their own.

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[gentlemand]

I've learned to just ignore the news at this point, seems no matter if the news is good the prie continues to be stagnant, these markets make no sense sometimes.

Good news never has much of an effect. There was no more or less good news when the price is exploding or in the toilet. Boom and bust cycles will play out in full no matter what the details are surrounding them.

[Sama517]

The ETF has already been rejected. Most people were scared that it was going to affect the market, but so far so good, no damage has been done. The prices have remained where they are. The ETF was just over hyped.

[nambunamba]

Everyone seems to be obsessed with the SEC's approval or rejection of the next phase of the ETF in a couple of days, which will be obviously dennied and my thesis is the market is smart enough to know this and so the rejection is already priced in which means there will be no dump.

However, no one seems to be talking about the ETN, which would allow investors immediate access to "BTC shares" without all the bullshit that the ETF needs.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-08-15/lovelorn-u-s-bitcoin-etf-fans-may-find-satisfaction-in-sweden

More info there. Looks like it's already opened? didn't do much market wise.

I do think the same, why so many people are looking on etf too much. There is indeed a good project like ETN that also could help like ETF do. Our only hope for etf right now is vaneck and seems like SEC are reject every etf proposal today, and the only one that left is vaneck.

[RockBar0]

I've learned to just ignore the news at this point, seems no matter if the news is good the prie continues to be stagnant, these markets make no sense sometimes.

Good news never has much of an effect. There was no more or less good news when the price is exploding or in the toilet. Boom and bust cycles will play out in full no matter what the details are surrounding them.

It was also considered a solution during this time. If you hear too much information and for a long time. Will cause confusion and mental crisis. It will be difficult to achieve your goals. Better not listen and have a clear plan.

[justspare]

Everyone seems to be obsessed with the SEC's approval or rejection of the next phase of the ETF in a couple of days, which will be obviously dennied and my thesis is the market is smart enough to know this and so the rejection is already priced in which means there will be no dump.

However, no one seems to be talking about the ETN, which would allow investors immediate access to "BTC shares" without all the bullshit that the ETF needs.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-08-15/lovelorn-u-s-bitcoin-etf-fans-may-find-satisfaction-in-sweden

More info there. Looks like it's already opened? didn't do much market wise.

I do not understand this.
I mean you are not buying bitcoin, you are basically buying into bitcoin price going up, you basically BET on the movement of bitcoin. What is the purpose of it ?

Like if you are not going to own the bitcoins you pay for, why even get into this ?
Are they trying to make betting on bitcoin prices easier for people who are not interested in the tech side of the things ?

Like some people are worrying that having bitcoin could somehow would cause them headaches (wallets, exchanges, confirmations, hell even scam exchanges that keeps your funds without notification) well than this would make bitcoin go public and at the hands of people who had hard time actually buy it and I support it.

[jseverson]

It seems that everyone is stressing out and desperately hope for an ETF to pass in order to lift the market up, but it's not going to happen. People shouldn't fool themselves that good news is important now. It's not.

The initial hype where news media were reporting that a Bitcoin ETF was sure to be approved was able to spark a $2k spike though. It could be argued that an actual approval could have a larger effect.

The ETF isn't going to happen anytime soon, but good news have always been important in the crypto market and I don't see that changing for the foreseeable future. It just so happens that this ETN isn't being talked about by anyone important and is hard to grasp for the average joe to boot, so it's dismissed as trivial. Makes me wonder, if the Winkelvoss twins hadn't been actively pushing for a Bitcoin ETF, would people even care about them?

[stompix]

Well, this turned ugly pretty fast:

https://cointelegraph.com/news/bitcoin-markets-volatile-after-us-sec-suspends-trading-in-two-crypto-based-securities

US regulators banned trading of XBT Provider’s Bitcoin and Ether Tracker One securities Sunday, September 9, briefly sending cryptocurrency markets tumbling.

Citing “confusion” among investors, the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) issued a notice that two exchange-traded notes (ETNs) –  Bitcoin Tracker One (“CXBTF”) and Ether Tracker One (“CETHF”) –  would cease trading until September 20.

“The Commission temporarily suspended trading in the securities CXBTF and CETHF because of confusion amongst market participants regarding these instruments,” the SEC’s statement reads, continuing:

“[T]he Commission cautions broker-dealers, shareholders, and prospective purchasers that they should carefully consider the foregoing information along with all other currently available information and any information subsequently issued by the company.”

Looks like it's already opened? didn't do much market wise.

Funny how it didn't do much when it opened but it is doing a lot when is suspended 

[BitHodler]

Makes me wonder, if the Winkelvoss twins hadn't been actively pushing for a Bitcoin ETF, would people even care about them?

It depends on the momentum, really. It has happened before that events that had no initial hype to them suddenly came to life months later because of how the mass started to pick up on it.

Currently the only reason people hype up ETFs is because of how they desperately hope to wipe out their on-paper losses. If the market kept going up instead of correcting people wouldn't even bother with ETFs.

Most people before the bull run didn't even know what an ETF was. It's really the momentum that makes or breaks certain events, and the bearish momentum makes people badly crave for an ETF.

[HE[A]RTLESS]

Waiting for a great news for bitcoin, it will be "to the moon again? No one knows, but i trust it must be happen.

everyone waiting but when look at market today.....................we need to wait more and more