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Author Topic: Banks Consume Over Three Times More Energy Than Bitcoin!  (Read 151 times)
tsg
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August 23, 2018, 11:08:38 AM
 #1

Interesting article in Bitcoinist:

According to Katrina Kelly-Pitou, the popular debate on whether or not Bitcoin’s network electricity consumption is causing serious damage to our climate is not headed in the right direction. Kelly-Pitou is a clean energy technology researcher at the University of Pittsburg,

Citing recent studies, which suggest Bitcoin dramatically increases the consumption of electricity on a global scale, Kelly-Pitou claims that experts are failing to understand some of the basics behind renewable energy systems:

Quote
Electricity production can increase while still maintaining a minimal impact on the environment. Rather than focusing on how much energy Bitcoin uses, the discussion should center around who indeed is producing it – and where their power comes from.

While she doesn’t neglect the substantial amount of electricity used for Bitcoin mining, she also notes that banking alone consumes “an estimated 100 terawatts.”

This is a little bit more than three times the energy Bitcoin mining consumes. She also makes an interesting claim, assuming 100x increase in Bitcoin’s current market size. Kelly-Pitou notes:

Quote
If Bitcoin technology were to mature by more than 100 times its current market size, it would still equal only 2 percent of all energy consumption.

The whole article: https://app.algory.io/app/cryptonews/81214/banks-consume-over-three-times-more

What do you think about it? On Twitter someone said: "Now... let's talk about how banks destroy environment, shall we?"

But the fact is that banks process much more transactions than blockchains now. What would be the real energy consumption if all transactions (processed now by banks), would be in blockchain?
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August 23, 2018, 11:36:22 AM
 #2

As bank rely on electricity for every transaction, they use computer to process transaction and to  pull information from the mother board and also atm machine need electricity to process cash withdrawal... Depending on the size of the bank it does really consume more energy than mining Bitcoin or BTC activity... But it does change the issue if we talk about big mining equipment...
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August 23, 2018, 11:52:52 AM
 #3

Not defending banks at all, but they support much more transactions than Bitcoin or any other cryptocurrency. So if we compare the consumption of electricity by each, then we should remember the number of work done as well.
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August 23, 2018, 12:15:50 PM
 #4

~

But the fact is that banks process much more transactions than blockchains now. What would be the real energy consumption if all transactions (processed now by banks), would be in blockchain?

The energy consumption in Bitcoin's case depends not on the number of transactions but rather on the difficulty or, in other words, on the number of nodes. I read somewhere that, theoretically, several nodes would be enough to process all the transactions and that we have a lot of nodes not because they are necessary but because people want to receive the mining rewards. So, theoretically, we might not need more energy consumption if all transactions processed now by banks were in blockchain. CMIIW.

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August 23, 2018, 12:20:04 PM
 #5

Not defending banks at all, but they support much more transactions than Bitcoin or any other cryptocurrency. So if we compare the consumption of electricity by each, then we should remember the number of work done as well.

That's a good point.
Currently, the bitcoin network consumes more energy per transaction than banks.

But if you'd compare this all with the LN being used as proposed (assuming the development progresses as expected), i'd be sure that the bitcoin network would consume by far less energy for the same amount of transactions.

This of course does require the LN to work as expected and to actually be adopted. Whether this will really happen in the future is unknown. Only time will tell if its going to work as expected.
One thing is safe. If it is going to deilver what it promises.. scaling, fees and energy efficiency shouldn't be any reason for FUD anymore.
And banks will be way less efficient compared to the capability of the proposed network.

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August 23, 2018, 01:40:04 PM
 #6

And we forgot to consider the full resources needed by banks. Yes, banks handle more transactions than Bitcoin, but banks don't only use energy/computer power for its transactions, what about the storages needed, what about the indirect expenses. While your bankster sit down on his chair he does not pedal to produce energy, his office uses energy too, when he goes to toilets he uses energy too, the transport of money, paying the employees, emails sent, letters sent, and so, are something to take in consideration

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August 23, 2018, 04:22:05 PM
 #7

However, you have an interesting article, it's funny what you mentioned about the environment on Twitter.

Also, I was surprised by the comment about the nodes when mining bitcoins. I never thought it was possible.

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August 23, 2018, 04:30:53 PM
 #8

Interesting article.  There has been much ado about how much electricity bitcoin requires, and it cannot be argued that it doesn't require a lot.  It does.  What society does have is a great deal of electricity, and whether that's bad for the environment or not is a debate of its own but what I would say is that if it ever comes to pass that society falls into a crisis whereby the grids are disrupted, we are all in serious trouble and bitcoin failing will seem trivial.  It won't even matter to most people.  They will be trying to conserve resources, and those will be the most basic things needed for survival, like keeping the power on in hospitals and so forth.

While your bankster sit down on his chair he does not pedal to produce energy
That would be highly amusing to see that happen.  In any event we have plenty of power, as I said.  If and when it becomes a concern, society will have more problems than anything the banking system could produce.  Buy land, seeds, and firearms. 
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August 23, 2018, 04:33:25 PM
 #9

Amazon how this article and news is hot topic all over the forum now. I guess there is nothing wrong if the banks are using the energy like that. They are also having huge expense than the bitcoin. Dont forget that bitcoin also runs with the connected computers all over the world and thus it gets distributed all over through the network like that. If we start calculating the power of computer used then surely it will end up more than banks.
Banks have the servers up and running all the time and they need to be connected 24x7 to fulfil the requests of users. Plus the surveillance of the banks and security guards and many more things you name it can take up huge energy mate.


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August 23, 2018, 07:18:07 PM
 #10

Not defending banks at all, but they support much more transactions than Bitcoin or any other cryptocurrency. So if we compare the consumption of electricity by each, then we should remember the number of work done as well.

You can't compare the transactions that banks process (that is, centralized transactions, permissioned and so on) with a decentralized transaction system like bitcoin. You are comparing apples to oranges.

All the electricity that the bitcoin network consumes is not wasted, it is a necessity to keep the blockchain safe.

And if LN allows to scale transactions, it may surpass all centralized payment networks. I haven't done the math for this, but intuitively I think would be cheaper compared to all the electricity banks and so on are using. Just imagine the amount of electricity one of these huge buildings consume.

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August 23, 2018, 07:24:22 PM
 #11

Not defending banks at all, but they support much more transactions than Bitcoin or any other cryptocurrency. So if we compare the consumption of electricity by each, then we should remember the number of work done as well.

With the implementation of LN, we will have more transactions in the future.
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August 23, 2018, 07:48:51 PM
 #12

Ofcourse they consume more, but you wont see news about that anywhere. Just about bad bad bitcoin. And why is that? Because bitcoin is bothering big guys. They wont undermine their precious broken bank system with headlines like that

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August 23, 2018, 08:25:30 PM
 #13

this is very hard to prove at his point of time maybe because there's a big percentage of the world population that are not using bitcoins.
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August 23, 2018, 08:31:29 PM
 #14

No one can deny that amount of energy used for mining is big, but let's face it - there are so many troubles with environment caused by us these days that this is just the tip of the iceberg. Focus on cleaning floating plastic islands and reducing junk. It seems that Bitcoin miners are the main problem of the environment, while eyes are closed for the obvious. Btw, I truly like the way it was pointed out that this is not the real and the biggest problem of mankind and that there are some previous ones that should be addressed.
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August 23, 2018, 09:21:38 PM
 #15

-snip-
All the electricity that the bitcoin network consumes is not wasted, it is a necessity to keep the blockchain safe.
Fargoway never said anything about wastage of electricity. Not sure how you got that impression.
Anyways, bank processes way more transactions than bitcoin does. Don't forget that only few percentage of people around world are actually using bitcoin to conduct day to day transactions, where as almost every people around the world are using banks to conduct transactions. So the comparison that is being done is actually absurd.


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August 23, 2018, 09:33:02 PM
 #16

Ofcourse they consume more, but you wont see news about that anywhere. Just about bad bad bitcoin. And why is that? Because bitcoin is bothering big guys. They wont undermine their precious broken bank system with headlines like that
I agree with your comment and I think people are trying to lower the value of Bitcoin to make it worse in the eyes of many. But I think these things will make more and more people interested and invest in Bitcoin and cryptocurrency.

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August 23, 2018, 09:54:16 PM
 #17

Not defending banks at all, but they support much more transactions than Bitcoin or any other cryptocurrency. So if we compare the consumption of electricity by each, then we should remember the number of work done as well.

You can't compare the transactions that banks process (that is, centralized transactions, permissioned and so on) with a decentralized transaction system like bitcoin. You are comparing apples to oranges.

All the electricity that the bitcoin network consumes is not wasted, it is a necessity to keep the blockchain safe.

And if LN allows to scale transactions, it may surpass all centralized payment networks. I haven't done the math for this, but intuitively I think would be cheaper compared to all the electricity banks and so on are using. Just imagine the amount of electricity one of these huge buildings consume.

Bitcoin and banks I believe, are still incomparable at this time.
Many people around the globe are still relying with banks while only small percentage are utilizing the bitcoin network.
It's overwhelming to think about how much energy is consuming by the banks everyday.
Yet, we are still very far from the scenario of using the blockchain instead of the conventional method.
But, we are heading to a good future. Banks are starting to see the benefits of blockchain within their system.
Give it a time and most of them are running their system via blockchain.
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August 23, 2018, 10:10:40 PM
 #18

Interesting article in Bitcoinist:

According to Katrina Kelly-Pitou, the popular debate on whether or not Bitcoin’s network electricity consumption is causing serious damage to our climate is not headed in the right direction. Kelly-Pitou is a clean energy technology researcher at the University of Pittsburg,

Citing recent studies, which suggest Bitcoin dramatically increases the consumption of electricity on a global scale, Kelly-Pitou claims that experts are failing to understand some of the basics behind renewable energy systems:

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Electricity production can increase while still maintaining a minimal impact on the environment. Rather than focusing on how much energy Bitcoin uses, the discussion should center around who indeed is producing it – and where their power comes from.

While she doesn’t neglect the substantial amount of electricity used for Bitcoin mining, she also notes that banking alone consumes “an estimated 100 terawatts.”

This is a little bit more than three times the energy Bitcoin mining consumes. She also makes an interesting claim, assuming 100x increase in Bitcoin’s current market size. Kelly-Pitou notes:

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If Bitcoin technology were to mature by more than 100 times its current market size, it would still equal only 2 percent of all energy consumption.

The whole article: https://app.algory.io/app/cryptonews/81214/banks-consume-over-three-times-more

What do you think about it? On Twitter someone said: "Now... let's talk about how banks destroy environment, shall we?"

But the fact is that banks process much more transactions than blockchains now. What would be the real energy consumption if all transactions (processed now by banks), would be in blockchain?

banks are institutions to recognize worthy enterpreneuers giving them power. so they can develop useful social structures. bitcoin only wastes energy to provide lambos for its miners. bitcoin is doomed

ucingucingan
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August 23, 2018, 10:12:13 PM
 #19

yes of course because conventional banks have a lot of equipment that they use to make transactions and of course that requires a lot of energy when compared to using bitcoin, bitcoin transactions only require miners, then computer devices that have been installed with bitcoin wallets are enough to be able to carry out transactions of any destination with easy, cheap and efficient
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August 23, 2018, 10:17:43 PM
 #20

Interesting debate. Those who argue that bitcoin consumes energy often forget that there is so much energy expended by banks especially in running their back office.
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