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Author Topic: How many of you have been Zhoutonged?  (Read 24888 times)
zhoutong
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October 24, 2011, 05:02:26 PM
 #41

I got a MASSIVE Zhoutonged...

I mean: I got my BTC deposit liquidated (not a normal position, be it short or long).

Without warning, and it does not show on the logs.

300+ BTC Sad

If you just leave your BTC deposit like that everything will be fine. When you owed Bitcoinica over $1,000 and your BTC deposit is dropping in value, why would you expect a warning.

I have already apologized for the logging problem. (The ledger was not designed in our system yet.) If remembered correctly, your deposits were liquidated at the price higher than $3. You should buy now instead of complaining.

It may not be a good price, but what were you doing when there was a good price?

Bitcoinica is not the place for you to owe USD and hold BTC indefinitely. It may be wrong to you, but the market is always correct.

BTW, when i trade Bitcoin at mtgox, i need to use my Yubikey to get into my acct to accomplish this; not just for withdrawals.  are you different than this?

API.

does the API require the use of the Yubikey to trade?  it seems it does so for withdrawals.

It doesn't make sense to use Yubikey via API.

Founder of NameTerrific (https://www.nameterrific.com/). Co-founder of CoinJar (https://coinjar.io/)

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October 24, 2011, 05:06:20 PM
 #42

I got a MASSIVE Zhoutonged...

I mean: I got my BTC deposit liquidated (not a normal position, be it short or long).

Without warning, and it does not show on the logs.

300+ BTC Sad

If you just leave your BTC deposit like that everything will be fine. When you owed Bitcoinica over $1,000 and your BTC deposit is dropping in value, why would you expect a warning.

I have already apologized for the logging problem. (The ledger was not designed in our system yet.) If remembered correctly, your deposits were liquidated at the price higher than $3. You should buy now instead of complaining.

It may not be a good price, but what were you doing when there was a good price?

Bitcoinica is not the place for you to owe USD and hold BTC indefinitely. It may be wrong to you, but the market is always correct.

BTW, when i trade Bitcoin at mtgox, i need to use my Yubikey to get into my acct to accomplish this; not just for withdrawals.  are you different than this?

API.

does the API require the use of the Yubikey to trade?  it seems it does so for withdrawals.

It doesn't make sense to use Yubikey via API.

please just say no if the answer is no.

but then why wouldn't the withdrawal function be included within the API precluding the need for a Yubikey?
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October 24, 2011, 05:08:50 PM
 #43

I got a MASSIVE Zhoutonged...

I mean: I got my BTC deposit liquidated (not a normal position, be it short or long).

Without warning, and it does not show on the logs.

300+ BTC Sad

If you just leave your BTC deposit like that everything will be fine. When you owed Bitcoinica over $1,000 and your BTC deposit is dropping in value, why would you expect a warning.

I have already apologized for the logging problem. (The ledger was not designed in our system yet.) If remembered correctly, your deposits were liquidated at the price higher than $3. You should buy now instead of complaining.

It may not be a good price, but what were you doing when there was a good price?

Bitcoinica is not the place for you to owe USD and hold BTC indefinitely. It may be wrong to you, but the market is always correct.

I expected a warning because it was nowhere informed that his could be done, only that.

And sorry being being a asshole, I am upset of how you handled stuff, but this does not give me the right to keep annoying you.

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October 24, 2011, 05:11:59 PM
 #44

I got a MASSIVE Zhoutonged...

I mean: I got my BTC deposit liquidated (not a normal position, be it short or long).

Without warning, and it does not show on the logs.

300+ BTC Sad

If you just leave your BTC deposit like that everything will be fine. When you owed Bitcoinica over $1,000 and your BTC deposit is dropping in value, why would you expect a warning.

I have already apologized for the logging problem. (The ledger was not designed in our system yet.) If remembered correctly, your deposits were liquidated at the price higher than $3. You should buy now instead of complaining.

It may not be a good price, but what were you doing when there was a good price?

Bitcoinica is not the place for you to owe USD and hold BTC indefinitely. It may be wrong to you, but the market is always correct.

I expected a warning because it was nowhere informed that his could be done, only that.

And sorry being being a asshole, I am upset of how you handled stuff, but this does not give me the right to keep annoying you.

when i get into an margin call situation with Fidelity that might be due today for example, i get a telephone call in the morning warning me to settle my acct up on my own by the end of the day, or else they'll do it for me. 
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October 24, 2011, 05:18:53 PM
 #45

I got a MASSIVE Zhoutonged...

I mean: I got my BTC deposit liquidated (not a normal position, be it short or long).

Without warning, and it does not show on the logs.

300+ BTC Sad

If you just leave your BTC deposit like that everything will be fine. When you owed Bitcoinica over $1,000 and your BTC deposit is dropping in value, why would you expect a warning.

I have already apologized for the logging problem. (The ledger was not designed in our system yet.) If remembered correctly, your deposits were liquidated at the price higher than $3. You should buy now instead of complaining.

It may not be a good price, but what were you doing when there was a good price?

Bitcoinica is not the place for you to owe USD and hold BTC indefinitely. It may be wrong to you, but the market is always correct.

I expected a warning because it was nowhere informed that his could be done, only that.

And sorry being being a asshole, I am upset of how you handled stuff, but this does not give me the right to keep annoying you.

when i get into an margin call situation with Fidelity that might be due today for example, i get a telephone call in the morning warning me to settle my acct up on my own by the end of the day, or else they'll do it for me. 

Yes, but they can sue you if you owe money.

What protection does Bitcoinica have?

Greater power comes with greater responsibility. You are in control of your own positions. There are lot of people out there who never got their positions liquidated even when prices move a lot.

We support instant deposits via Mt. Gox, and even if it's funded by Bitcoin and the transaction took some time to deposit and your account got liquidated before confirmations, we will reverse the liquidation for you. What else can you ask for?

You can say 100 things bad about Bitcoinica, but trust me, it's not worth your time.

Our net BTC position is over 5 digits. What short squeeze?! It's just you plain silly assumption.

Founder of NameTerrific (https://www.nameterrific.com/). Co-founder of CoinJar (https://coinjar.io/)

Donations for my future Bitcoin projects: 19Uk3tiD5XkBcmHyQYhJxp9QHoub7RosVb
Nagle
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October 24, 2011, 05:33:20 PM
 #46

This is why trading options is better than shorting. With option trading, your loss is limited and you don't get margin calls.

Bitcoin is so volatile that some random spike is likely to wipe out a leveraged short position.  With an option, you only care what the price is when the option matures.

Bitcoin doesn't have options, of course. 
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October 24, 2011, 05:33:34 PM
 #47

Zhou:  Does mtgox require the use of the Yubikey to trade?
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October 24, 2011, 05:39:16 PM
 #48

You all are clearly n00bs to econ and trading. It is simple math. Don't trade leveraged 5 to 1

How you suggest someone might use bitcoinica? Or you are suggesting to do not use it at all?

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October 24, 2011, 06:04:06 PM
 #49

If you do not know what you are doing, no don't use it!

even if you do know what you're doing the leverage, Zhou's power to liquidate you, lack of signif reserves, lack of direct continuous co-location to mtgox makes it unviable when volatility strikes.

and b/c Zhou won't directly say he does not need that little plastic Yubikey to trade his accts at mtgox, i must assume he does need it and all your accts depend on it.
zhoutong
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October 24, 2011, 06:13:56 PM
 #50

If you do not know what you are doing, no don't use it!

even if you do know what you're doing the leverage, Zhou's power to liquidate you, lack of signif reserves, lack of direct continuous co-location to mtgox makes it unviable when volatility strikes.

and b/c Zhou won't directly say he does not need that little plastic Yubikey to trade his accts at mtgox, i must assume he does need it and all your accts depend on it.

Yubikey is not required for API trading. I have said that. Withdrawals require key-secret.

Bitcoinica reserves are significant. Almost 6 digits worth of USD.

Bitcoinica-Mt. Gox latency is within 15ms.

To me, bitcoin is not volatile at all, because my algorithm can handle it. If you can't imagine, it's your problem.

You don't know anything!

Founder of NameTerrific (https://www.nameterrific.com/). Co-founder of CoinJar (https://coinjar.io/)

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October 24, 2011, 09:32:43 PM
 #51

This is why trading options is better than shorting. With option trading, your loss is limited and you don't get margin calls.

For once, I agree with you Nagle.
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October 24, 2011, 11:45:40 PM
 #52

I don't know about you guys, but I like to short straddle my BTC. All the time. Unlimited profit!

Please give me your money, because I am a shameless libertarian elite who deserves your money more than you do: 9Hkao8U82WWDp6SQGn4k7ad9gT1LWeL5s3
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October 25, 2011, 12:51:03 AM
 #53

I would like to do that too, if there were any reliable place to make options contracts. Smiley
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October 25, 2011, 01:07:23 AM
 #54

That reminds me, whatever happened to Bitoption?

(BFL)^2 < 0
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October 25, 2011, 03:38:17 AM
 #55

I don't know about you guys, but I like to short straddle my BTC. All the time. Unlimited profit!

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Cluster2k
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October 25, 2011, 02:04:07 PM
 #56

Bitcoin is so volatile I really don't see why people want to short it.  Today we saw the price go from $2.83 to $2.44 to $3 and back to $2.64 within 2 hours.  One super spike can wipe out most positions. 

Pick any moment in time and bitcoin could be worth 20% less or 20% more within minutes.  Impossible to predict.

Do not send bitcoins to me: 16b8s7pBJ9rUmsExNW25qD5VUqVqRPZuXu
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zhoutong
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October 25, 2011, 02:24:29 PM
 #57

Bitcoin is so volatile I really don't see why people want to short it.  Today we saw the price go from $2.83 to $2.44 to $3 and back to $2.64 within 2 hours.  One super spike can wipe out most positions. 

Pick any moment in time and bitcoin could be worth 20% less or 20% more within minutes.  Impossible to predict.

Today's volatility is indeed amazing.

Just look at Bitcoinica's volume today.

Founder of NameTerrific (https://www.nameterrific.com/). Co-founder of CoinJar (https://coinjar.io/)

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October 25, 2011, 03:07:16 PM
 #58

Bitcoin is so volatile I really don't see why people want to short it.  Today we saw the price go from $2.83 to $2.44 to $3 and back to $2.64 within 2 hours.  One super spike can wipe out most positions. 

Pick any moment in time and bitcoin could be worth 20% less or 20% more within minutes.  Impossible to predict.

Because some of those who got in early on the short, and truly believe Bitcoin will tank, stand to make a lot of money if they're right.

How is this any different than those who go long, besides the usual SKY'S THE LIMIT! thinking (which is stupid and unrealistic)?

Please give me your money, because I am a shameless libertarian elite who deserves your money more than you do: 9Hkao8U82WWDp6SQGn4k7ad9gT1LWeL5s3
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October 25, 2011, 03:59:31 PM
 #59

Bitcoin is so volatile I really don't see why people want to short it.  Today we saw the price go from $2.83 to $2.44 to $3 and back to $2.64 within 2 hours.  One super spike can wipe out most positions. 

Pick any moment in time and bitcoin could be worth 20% less or 20% more within minutes.  Impossible to predict.

Because some of those who got in early on the short, and truly believe Bitcoin will tank, stand to make a lot of money if they're right.

How is this any different than those who go long, besides the usual SKY'S THE LIMIT! thinking (which is stupid and unrealistic)?

b/c at this price a shorts profit limit stops at zero compared to if we go back to $30 the pain would be enormous by comparison.
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October 25, 2011, 04:18:10 PM
 #60

Bitcoin is so volatile I really don't see why people want to short it.  Today we saw the price go from $2.83 to $2.44 to $3 and back to $2.64 within 2 hours.  One super spike can wipe out most positions.  

Pick any moment in time and bitcoin could be worth 20% less or 20% more within minutes.  Impossible to predict.

Because some of those who got in early on the short, and truly believe Bitcoin will tank, stand to make a lot of money if they're right.

How is this any different than those who go long, besides the usual SKY'S THE LIMIT! thinking (which is stupid and unrealistic)?

the other thing you're up against is being Zhoutonged.  with all this volatility at this relatively low price level, shorts will be taken out and shot at each spike in volatility.  its you or him.
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