[overview] Recover Bitcoin from any old storage format

[pooya87]

Old private key problem that I haven't seen until today

this is a "broken code" problem which you don't really see with "wallets" that people use.
the interesting thing about that topic is that it showed how broken the code of many of these tools are (even Electrum¹) they don't validate the input private key properly! instead they base58-decode, drop the extra bytes instead of validating them and use the leftover as the "key"!

edit: ¹ by the way, this was fixed in Electrum.

[1714879732]

1714879732

[Stedsm]

The 2nd post after OP asks us to:

MAKE A BACKUP ON REMOVABLE MEDIA BEFORE DOING ANYTHING.

Wanna know something.

What IF:

- I keep all the backup in a USB drive (removable media) or an external hard drive that goes either broken or completely corrupt?

- As some of the USB drives have their own security system software installed, I wish to know are these softwares actually trustworthy to be kept in it (like to add a password to password-protect it to secure our USB drive and/or even external hard drive)?

[LoyceV]

What IF:

- I keep all the backup in a USB drive (removable media) or an external hard drive that goes either broken or completely corrupt?

Then you're screwed When using digital storage media, you shouldn't rely on just one copy, and you should check all copies once in a while (or, considering the price of storage media, just make a new one once in a while).
With properly stored paper, you can be pretty sure it lasts a lifetime and longer. With digital storage, I've seen too many defective disks and USB sticks to really rely on them.

- As some of the USB drives have their own security system software installed, I wish to know are these softwares actually trustworthy to be kept in it (like to add a password to password-protect it to secure our USB drive and/or even external hard drive)?

I guess this varies per device. I'd prefer an Open Source solution for encryption.

[Stedsm]

As some of the USB drives have their own security system software installed, I wish to know are these softwares actually trustworthy to be kept in it (like to add a password to password-protect it to secure our USB drive and/or even external hard drive)?

I guess this varies per device. I'd prefer an Open Source solution for encryption.

What kinda solution? Any preference you'd share here to make us aware of it?


As you asked me not to rely on one single device for the storage of all such wallets and privkeys,
What IF:
- I've only stored my keys on paper wallet(s) and it is the only source that's prone to fire, water and tearing?

On a side note, what's a steel wallet and how does it work? Can it help me save money on one hand while also providing me the level of security needed to store such sensitive data?

[ABCbits]

As some of the USB drives have their own security system software installed, I wish to know are these softwares actually trustworthy to be kept in it (like to add a password to password-protect it to secure our USB drive and/or even external hard drive)?

I guess this varies per device. I'd prefer an Open Source solution for encryption.

What kinda solution? Any preference you'd share here to make us aware of it?

Personally i'd recommend using LUKS or LUKS2 encryption. If you use linux, you could either use gnome-disks (GUI) or cryptsetup (terminal)

[LoyceV]

What kinda solution? Any preference you'd share here to make us aware of it?

I was thinking of something like KeePass (or KeePassX), or TrueCrypt (although I didn't know until now it's discontinued).

What IF:
- I've only stored my keys on paper wallet(s) and it is the only source that's prone to fire, water and tearing?

You'll need another backup at another location to be safe. I still haven't found the right balance between "the risk of having a wallet compromised" and "the risk of losing access myself". Well, I have a balance, but it still doesn't make me feel totally at easy.

On a side note, what's a steel wallet and how does it work? Can it help me save money on one hand while also providing me the level of security needed to store such sensitive data?

Basically, any piece of steel with a private key stamped into it will do. You can get a cheap letter punch on eBay, but most sets don't have lower case letters.

[HCP]

Or you can spend $$$ on things like:
https://bithd.com/Frozen-Armor.html
https://cryptosteel.com/
https://steel-wallet.de/
https://www.simbit.com/
etc

Noting that most of these solutions are aimed at storing BIP39 seed mnemonics... as you only need to store the first 4 chars of each seed word to be able to recreate it (it's a feature of BIP39 wordlist)... in general, they're not suitable for storing a full Base58 private key.

[Coding Enthusiast]

You can get a cheap letter punch on eBay, but most sets don't have lower case letters.

In these cases you can always change your encoding from any base to any other base that doesn't have mixed case digits. The most common is base-16 aka hexadecimal format, there is also base-36 (0-9 and a-z); neither one of these have the checksum that base-58 (WIF) has.
And finally there is bech32 which currently is only used for addresses but it can also be used for private keys although there is no standard for it yet but it offers the checksum and also error detection both of which are needed for storage purposes.

[malevolent]

What IF:

- I keep all the backup in a USB drive (removable media) or an external hard drive that goes either broken or completely corrupt?

- As some of the USB drives have their own security system software installed, I wish to know are these softwares actually trustworthy to be kept in it (like to add a password to password-protect it to secure our USB drive and/or even external hard drive)?

1. There are data recovery companies that may assist you with that. No guarantees, though.

2. Use tested open source solutions such VeraCrypt or LUKS.

[dragonvslinux]

What IF:
- As some of the USB drives have their own security system software installed, I wish to know are these softwares actually trustworthy to be kept in it (like to add a password to password-protect it to secure our USB drive and/or even external hard drive)?

2. Use tested open source solutions such VeraCrypt or LUKS.

Personally, I'd zero-out (wipe) any USB you plan to use to store private keys or seeds on. Then reformat the USB on an offline laptop, ideally using a linux live system.
Luks might be more convenient but veracrypt is much more secure (when set to Serpent-Twofish-AES - 256x3). The Luks default is AES-256 if I'm not mistaken.
I'd also recommend creating both a veracrypt file as well as a partition on seperate disks. The files are more reliable, as well as to replicate, the partitions are less reliable.
The veracrypt partition option is useful for creating full disk encryption, such as with tiny useless USBs, that are more resistant than luks default encrypted partitions.
Finally I'd recommend never making just 1 backup (this is a single point of failure still), make multiple on cheap USBs for a distributed backup system instead.

[malevolent]

Finally I'd recommend never making just 1 backup (this is a single point of failure still), make multiple on cheap USBs for a distributed backup system instead.

It'd also be better to also use more than one type of data storage medium in each location, ideally a combination of USB drives, SSDs, HDDs, M-Disc DVDs, and LTO tapes if you have a tape drive. I would be a little worried if I had to rely solely on flash memory.

[dragonvslinux]

Finally I'd recommend never making just 1 backup (this is a single point of failure still), make multiple on cheap USBs for a distributed backup system instead.

It'd also be better to also use more than one type of data storage medium in each location, ideally a combination of USB drives, SSDs, HDDs, M-Disc DVDs, and LTO tapes if you have a tape drive. I would be a little worried if I had to rely solely on flash memory.

Don't forget micro and standard SD's as well! I'd go with USB, SSD, HDD, even hybrids, but not convinced about discs and tapes. Too easily damaged in my opinion.

[Stedsm]

Don't forget micro and standard SD's as well! I'd go with USB, SSD, HDD, even hybrids, but not convinced about discs and tapes. Too easily damaged in my opinion.

Fair point, but discs (especially M-disc) and tapes generally have longer life-span. While it's easily damaged, IMO it's expected user know who bother use those have knowledge to store those properly.

What about Blu-ray DVDs?
I used to play with these things way before but now less likely to store on them as I find them too much vulnerable towards getting corrupt or damaged. Any simple yet favorable to any conditions kinda device that'd actually deliver to store these kind of things without having to fear a lot about it? I don't want to think a lot saving my entire savings into a device I believe I could rely upon.

[Stedsm]

One of the most important questions I want to ask:

What if I store my privkeys and all these wallets over CLOUD services?

Based on this, 2 more questions:
- If I store on an online cloud service!
- If I store on an offline cloud service!

And if I keep them over telegram (through their saved messages feature) but somehow lose control to my number (or else it gets automatically allocated to someone else)? Will I still be able to get back my telegram ever or is it gone with all my data I used to bookmark and save in it?

[LoyceV]

- If I store on an online cloud service!

In general, it's a bad idea to store private keys online.

- If I store on an offline cloud service!

I'm not sure how an offline cloud service would work: if it's offline, you can't store data.

And if I keep them over telegram (through their saved messages feature)

Again: it's a bad idea to store private keys online.

but somehow lose control to my number (or else it gets automatically allocated to someone else)? Will I still be able to get back my telegram ever or is it gone with all my data I used to bookmark and save in it?

I don't think this is the right topic to discuss specific third party account recoveries.

[pooya87]

What if I store my privkeys and all these wallets over CLOUD services?

cloud services can never be an option and here is the problem, when you store your private keys on a cloud server you need to encrypt it first. and we are talking about a strong encryption which means you now have to create a backup of that strong (long and random with symbols,...) password so we are back at square one of you looking for a way to store something!
not to mention you now have to also create a backup of the login details of that cloud service somewhere. you can't just click save password in your browser or write it in a text file stored on your hard disk. and this password has to be equally strong.
and finally you should think about the risk of them closing your account for whatever reason. you will have no control over that.

[DaveF]

Just because I had this happen.

When restoring from very old core wallets (wallet.dat) keep in mind that you might have to use the same OS (Linux / Win / Mac) as the original file.
Not sure why, but I could not import a 0.7.1 wallet.dat from a Linux box into a Windows one. Gave a corrupt error and shutdown.

Popped the file into a CentOs like it was originally on and no issues.
Moved the updated wallet.dat back to the Windows machine and all was good. So it was something with the older version of the wallet.dat from a foreign OS

Did a 2nd time to verify that I was just not being stupid and the same thing happened.

Should probably spend some time doing some other checks but I'm a slacker not that motivated 

-Dave

[Welsh]

Just because I had this happen.

When restoring from very old core wallets (wallet.dat) keep in mind that you might have to use the same OS (Linux / Win / Mac) as the original file.
Not sure why, but I could not import a 0.7.1 wallet.dat from a Linux box into a Windows one. Gave a corrupt error and shutdown.

Popped the file into a CentOs like it was originally on and no issues.
Moved the updated wallet.dat back to the Windows machine and all was good. So it was something with the older version of the wallet.dat from a foreign OS

I can't think why there would be a reason for this to be happening, because as far as I know the current Bitcoin Core versions should be fully backward compatible with older versions, and the wallet.dat doesn't hold any information on what OS was used during creation. However, alternatively you could have imported the private key instead of running the original OS that the wallet was created on, unless you haven't backed up your private key. There's the other option of importing your seed which was generated at the creation of the wallet too. AFAIK, there should not be any problems with importing older wallet.dat files into newer operating systems even if they're different.

Personally, I don't rely on the wallet.dat file, and have backups of my private keys which I took care in making sure they never touched a electronic device, and aren't stored in plain text. Although, I still have hot wallets like anyone else, but the majority of my Bitcoin is stored via these offline generated private keys.

I believe a certain version of Electrum abandoned backwards compatibility a few years ago, but I'm not sure if I'm recalling that correctly, and even then I don't think Bitcoin Core in its history has rejected backward compatibility. Of course, even if older software isn't backward compt

[DaveF]

Just because I had this happen.

When restoring from very old core wallets (wallet.dat) keep in mind that you might have to use the same OS (Linux / Win / Mac) as the original file.
Not sure why, but I could not import a 0.7.1 wallet.dat from a Linux box into a Windows one. Gave a corrupt error and shutdown.

Popped the file into a CentOs like it was originally on and no issues.
Moved the updated wallet.dat back to the Windows machine and all was good. So it was something with the older version of the wallet.dat from a foreign OS

I can't think why there would be a reason for this to be happening, because as far as I know the current Bitcoin Core versions should be fully backward compatible with older versions, and the wallet.dat doesn't hold any information on what OS was used during creation. However, alternatively you could have imported the private key instead of running the original OS that the wallet was created on, unless you haven't backed up your private key. There's the other option of importing your seed which was generated at the creation of the wallet too. AFAIK, there should not be any problems with importing older wallet.dat files into newer operating systems even if they're different.

Personally, I don't rely on the wallet.dat file, and have backups of my private keys which I took care in making sure they never touched a electronic device, and aren't stored in plain text. Although, I still have hot wallets like anyone else, but the majority of my Bitcoin is stored via these offline generated private keys.

I believe a certain version of Electrum abandoned backwards compatibility a few years ago, but I'm not sure if I'm recalling that correctly, and even then I don't think Bitcoin Core in its history has rejected backward compatibility. Of course, even if older software isn't backward compt

I know it should not matter, but it did.

And the only reason I even thought about going back to the Linux box was there was a post someplace (here / reddit / somewhere) with somebody having the same issue that I saw a long time ago. So there were at least 2 people with the issue before this. The one who had it and the one who told him the solution. So, since also happened to me, I figured it was worth a mention.

The only thing I can come up with, and this is a stretch, is that there was a very minor difference with some versions of the DB, depending on the OS and how you compiled it.
But that is really pulling something out of the air and grasping for a reason.

-Dave

[JBRai]

Hi All

I just wanted some help form anyone i am not sure the balance of my private key but that is not the main issue....

The main issues are as follows
1) i have a private key which begins with K and is 49 Characters long base58
2) i have a private key which begins with K and is 54 Characters long base58

I am not sure how to resolve this and kind the actual private key i have even wrote BTC address down wrong...

Could someone kindly help as i could use the BTC's right now!!!!!
PS: If i use the the script on here and use this in github https://pastebin.com/S8WARrRn? will it work or do i have to use it on pastebin to run the script ?
Many Thanks
J