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Author Topic: Calling out the Bitcoin Foundation Scam.  (Read 22506 times)
Atruk
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March 03, 2014, 11:33:30 PM
 #81

The foundation's leadership is being overhauled. Vessenes and Matonis are out shortly. Pros are coming.

Zed's Dead.

Let us hope this is the end of the imagination foundation.

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March 03, 2014, 11:33:55 PM
 #82

I don't know anything about this foundation but it seems to me Bitcoin doesn't need any central committee or foundation cause once you get people with power then you have the potential for corruption. Bitcoin as a technology does away with people surely that the whole point.

They have some power, but a really bad rep.

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March 04, 2014, 12:18:00 AM
 #83

The foundation's leadership is being overhauled. Vessenes and Matonis are out shortly. Pros are coming.

I'm not fully in the loop. I know Vessenes is a parasite, but what's bad about Matonis?

If I've said anything amusing and/or informative and you're feeling generous:
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March 04, 2014, 12:24:00 AM
 #84

My reaction to OP



Seriously though, this whole Bitcoin Foundation business is very interesting. For some reason, because I kept reading about them on reddit and because they have such a nice and important sounding name, I assumed they were doing something useful in the Bitcoin community. But when you think about ,what HAVE they contributed? I don't know if they're a scam, but all I know is they've been pocketing money and not really outputting anything I've heard of. This needs further investigation. OP is a little aggressive but raises an important issue.

All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.
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March 04, 2014, 12:26:41 AM
 #85

true story
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March 04, 2014, 12:29:26 AM
 #86

What a shame; I wouldn't trust another man to handle my money properly, unless I wanted him to keep it for himself--but then it wouldn't be my money anymore.  But since people go through most of their lives giving up money (except unlike TBF, at gunpoint) to strangers to pay for their roads, children's education and defense etc., I can see how such a mistake can go unnoticed to the individual who has yet to detect that his money is not being spent wisely (nor will it ever, if you average the times between other men handling your money properly vs. improperly).

The lesson to learn: if you honestly want your money to go to the best businesses and causes, you need to spend that money yourself.  We all learn it as children: be responsible.  You cannot have responsibility over that which beyond your control, nor is it beneficial to leave this trust unto others to be responsible in your absence, except when you actually do trust those people, and I've had some friends far longer than TBF has existed that I wouldn't trust with my money.  Honestly, it is a shame to see the good intentions of people misused, but such is the result for one who is not careful.

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March 04, 2014, 12:38:57 AM
 #87

OP brings up very good points and quite frankly their track record is beginning to speak for itself.

The track record of MPOE-PR (good) and also the track record of the Bitcoin Foundation (bad).

I move that MPOE-PR be appointed supreme dictator of the Bitcoin Foundation.

Hopefully these will be the first orders of business: dissolve, disband, liquidate.


Seriously though, here is my 2 satoshis for what it's worth:
In my early exposure to Bitcoin I thought it was likely a scam due the existence of tBF. Only after digging into the heart of technical (protocol) details made me believe it was truly something new and worth pursuing. I think it all comes down to a naming choice, if the word Bitcoin wasn't in their name then no one would care.
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March 04, 2014, 01:06:37 AM
 #88

OP brings up very good points and quite frankly their track record is beginning to speak for itself.

The track record of MPOE-PR (good) and also the track record of the Bitcoin Foundation (bad).
The track records of TBC board members is also neutral or bad (mostly).

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March 04, 2014, 02:20:10 AM
 #89

The foundation's leadership is being overhauled. Vessenes and Matonis are out shortly. Pros are coming.

I thought they were just leaving Bitcoin Foundation in order to set up a UK-based international Bitcoin body.  If you consider them incompetent or undesirable representatives of Bitcoin at a national level, then them representing it at an international is hardly a positive thing.

All I can say is that this is Bitcoin. I don't believe it until I see six confirmations.
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March 04, 2014, 03:27:03 AM
 #90

The Bitcoin Foundation was a large confidence scam perpetrated on the very naive, rather noobish yet very vain Bitcoin community cca 2012-2014 - and running for about as long as Pirate's ponzi.

It was thought out, constructed and initially run by Peter Vessenes, and then passed along to various accomplices. (Don't imagine that if I don't name you, we don't have the file. We have the file. You will be serving time, in all likelihood.)

It worked like so:

 1. Collect donations from the clueless yet vain. Because Bitcoin is full of people who belabour under the delusion that if they speak a lot about Bitcoin, if they paint "Bitcoin" all over the four walls of their dwelling and so on then they're somehow "part of Bitcoin". Charging these idiots a hefty fee for an "official" stamp of approval* is a logical next step, and it collected a massive warchest (even more than the thousands of BTC this forum - also run on MtGox servers - has collected for "software upgrades").

The CEO and Treasurer at the time, one Peter Vessenes simply pocketed this money. No report was ever published, no report will ever be published. More advanced than the MtGox scam, the Foundation is a "non profit" and it has no creditors, so nobody has standing to take them to court.

 2. Vouch for scams. It is very lucrative to sell protection; that's what most underworld kingpins do for a living. That's what the Bitcoin Foundation did for a living too, once the BTC price went up and the dubious character of the people running it became public knowledge (ie, once MP said so). With dwindling donation income and a never ending hunger for cash**, the Bitcoin Foundation was repurposed as a voucher for whoever could afford to pay. Like BFL. Like MtGox.

The only reason Pirate wasn't vouched for by the Bitcoin Foundation is that I killed him before he had a chance. The only reason the Patrick Harnett scammer didn't end up on their board is because MP killed him before he had a chance. The only reason Silk Road's guy wasn't vouched for by the Bitcoin Foundation is that he couldn't be bothered (or afford) to pay them. The only reason TradeFortress wasn't similarly has to do with cash. And this list could go on.
 
Think things through: it's not so hard to collect five thousand Bitcoin and then from that pay fifty to some clueless, famished nerd or other.

It's not hard to pretend like you're professional while you're lying through your teeth and defrauding everyone in sight.

It's not hard to pretend like you have "public support" when you're only talking to the clueless noobs that joined yesterday, who think Auroracoin actually "has a market cap" and so on. In a population of 19 yo Xavier Uni graduates, any lie can pass for truth if large enough and repeated often enough.

What is hard is to stand for something, what is hard is to speak the uncomfortable truths***, what is hard is to keep promises and to refuse to make promises that can't be kept and to tell would-be "powers that be" to pack it and move because Bitcoin is taking over.

But the Bitcoin Foundation isn't in the business of all that. The Bitcoin Foundation was in the business of taking money from they too stupid to keep it, and votes from they too clueless to have any money, and then sell the package to the highest bidder. Whoever it may be. Vessenes & co gotta be bought out after all, it's not like the shit they do has any intrinsic value whatsoever. Acquisition or bust, it's what they learned, it's what they do, it's what they'll teach you, if you'll let them. (And if you do let them you might as well use fiat, seriously now. It's easier, and insured.)

So now they're decamping to the UK in the hopes they may avoid US side prosecution, (a move deeply reminiscent of Vleisides, incidentally). Derp. You're all going to jail, boys and girls. You're all going to jail for being thieves, and liars, and con men. And to quote from a much older article of MP's (funny how that guy always wrote today's article months ago, isn't it?):

Quote
There’s just no way this little experiment in mishandling other people’s money can end up anywhere other than in a court, and there’s pretty good odds that it will be through penal rather than civil proceedings - the people involved are too many and too stupid for the state not to intervene.

Once that happens, I am positive and certain that the same people who are now running around calling their betters names will try to turn things into some sort of “mean state infringing on people’s rights”. They have a fine record at trying exactly that.

The problem is, the lot of them being packed up and hauled to jail would be no such infringement. It is at this point perfectly reasonable and quite unavoidable. Sure, they’ll try and sell this libertarian angle, that’s the curse of being pro-freedom : all the scumbags try to exploit you for their little profit turning “ideas”. It won’t wash. The girl that already beat you in the PR marketplace will beat you again, dear Sonny & co. She has the material right here.

---
* See this excellent quote from Chris Ballas:

Quote
And here I have to go back over something.  The harder part of the psychology is that the demo doesn't want to become full time traders, either at home all day or on Wall Street-- that part must remain a fantasy--  because then it would be a job and it wouldn't count; it has to be a side gig, then their success wasn't their "work self" but their "real" self;  no one else can claim a sliver of that success-- not the liberals with their "'entrepreneurs' just pretend they don't benefit from public services!" or the wives with their "behind every good man...!" or the echoes of their father yelling,  "you need to apply to Sperry Rand, now there's a company you can put in forty years with!"  It all happened in their head, no one else can share the credit, it is 100% a consequence of their personal value.    Bonus: if they fail, it can be quickly discounted as merely a hobby-- that wasn't, after all, their real self.

The mistake is in thinking this has anything to do with the money.  It's said that most at home traders fail, but this is incorrect: they fail at making money, but they are successful at feeling like a trader.  That is the goal; the money is secondary, which is why they fail at making it.  The buy/hold/reinvest the dividends strategy of Buffet is totally opposite to what's desired, because the strategy does not involve market timing or status updates, it is on autopilot, and there's no "i" in autopilot.  Well, there's one, but it doesn't stand out.

** This is the problem with scum posing as businessmen: the things they make aren't cash generators, they're cash black holes. This is fundamentally why we don't want scum to pass for businessmen: not because we don't like their ugly mugs, but because we don't want to be surrounded by "businesses" that only work if someone somewhere keeps printing money. We're not trying to re-build the US pseudo-economy here, quite the contrary.

*** From You Are The 98%:

Quote
There's a difference between what you need and what you want, and the media will always, relentlessly give you what you want.  Do you know why you have such poor candidates every single election?  Because you want them, you want someone you can easily judge for some sexual indiscretion or because they called latinos chicanos.  "Well, that matters to us!"  Then you got what you asked for.

The media will have data mined the culture and chosen for you two cans of Campbell's Chicken Soup, and then encouraged a public debate about which can is a better representation of the spirit of the country, the one on the left or the one on the right.  "Well, that matters to us!"  I know.  

Undoing the ignore long enough to skim this post was just not a wise move on my part...

Hardforks aren't that hard. It’s getting others to use them that's hard.
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March 04, 2014, 03:29:03 AM
 #91

I must admit.
I have never heard of this Bitcoin Foundation before this post.

What is it that they do exactly?



Have a look. The OP isn't well respected, so take no notice.

https://bitcoinfoundation.org/forum/index.php?/topic/752-the-good-and-useful-things-the-foundation-has-done-for-us-members-compiled-by-dr-brian-goss/

Hardforks aren't that hard. It’s getting others to use them that's hard.
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March 04, 2014, 04:10:22 AM
 #92

I must admit.
I have never heard of this Bitcoin Foundation before this post.

What is it that they do exactly?

Have a look. The OP isn't well respected, so take no notice.

https://bitcoinfoundation.org/forum/index.php?/topic/752-the-good-and-useful-things-the-foundation-has-done-for-us-members-compiled-by-dr-brian-goss/

Nice try, sidestepping the actual issues (such as you know, accounting fraud, tortious misrepresentation and quite possibly false pretenses, quite definitely embezzlement and a myriad other civil and criminal violations) by failful personal attacks (nobody heard of you, I'm easily on any list of respectable voices on this forum, buzz off) and a laundry list of...nonsense. Conferences don't count, and there's literally nothing else on that list.

Now go tell your puppet masters that a) you failed miserably and b) they'll need much much better damage control. Ideally, they'll need some lawyers. Preferably someone with an actual clue (which excludes Murck, he's the ninny that got them in their present muck).

Oh, and since two can play that game, "Dr." Brian Goss (a freshly failed medical student in Chicago interviewing for residency training in radiology): here's your old page, from back when you were pushing the mywallet scam.

Quite respectable indeed, imbecile.

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March 04, 2014, 04:18:43 AM
Last edit: March 04, 2014, 01:04:02 PM by BadBear
 #93

I don’t think it’s either practical nor feasible nor even desirable to use Bitcoin in the day to day dabble of pizzas, phone credits, hairspray and sneakers. People try to, because of the misguided belief that Bitcoin value is somehow related to or deriving from its crossection in the retail market.

Looks to me more and more like you're trying to destroy Bitcoin.  If Bitcoin doesn't try to compete in internet retailer purchases, such as Amazon, Ebay, etc, then it can easily fade into obscurity and be replaced by another product that does it all.  Market cap and liquidity is everything.  Amazon alone does 75 billion in sales a year.  Bitcoin wasn't created so that you have to convert BTC to fiat anytime you want to do something, it was created to spend in it's on units on these sites.  Pruning or other methods have to be worked on to improve this unless you just want a small number of super nodes, which seems to be the current course even at 7 TPS.

Another reason I see you either trying to destroy Bitcoin, or having no idea what you're doing, is that you seem to be one of those people who promote Bitcoin as the only coin that should exist.  You must not know how finance works at all if you think that's going to happen.  There are many reasons why altcoins will exist:

1)  People want to be able to hedge to prevent catastrophic loss that can occur from a single block chain.  The finance industry demands it, and they will get it.

2)  A single developer (Gavin) being able to screw up a software update and causing a fork that destroys a 10+ billion dollar business is not an option.  See #1.  People will want to minimize their possible risks to 10-20% loss for attacks or things like this happening.

3)  Demand for anonymous transactions vs open transactions.

4)  Practical hardware/space limitations of a single chain that has already been discussed.

5)  The usage of PoS as a virtual bank.

6)  How easy it is for a government to co-opt, attack, or take over a single chain.  It's much harder to take over or destroy 10 at once.  My estimate is, there will be 5-10 large coins.

7)  Dozens more that I don't feel like typing.


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seriouscoin
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March 04, 2014, 04:19:23 AM
 #94

I must admit.
I have never heard of this Bitcoin Foundation before this post.

What is it that they do exactly?

Have a look. The OP isn't well respected, so take no notice.

https://bitcoinfoundation.org/forum/index.php?/topic/752-the-good-and-useful-things-the-foundation-has-done-for-us-members-compiled-by-dr-brian-goss/

Nice try, sidestepping the actual issues (such as you know, accounting fraud, tortious misrepresentation and quite possibly false pretenses, quite definitely embezzlement and a myriad other civil and criminal violations) by failful personal attacks (nobody heard of you, I'm easily on any list of respectable voices on this forum, buzz off) and a laundry list of...nonsense. Conferences don't count, and there's literally nothing else on that list.

Now go tell your puppet masters that a) you failed miserably and b) they'll need much much better damage control. Ideally, they'll need some lawyers. Preferably someone with an actual clue (which excludes Murck, he's the ninny that got them in their present muck).

Oh, and since two can play that game, "Dr." Brian Goss (a freshly failed medical student in Chicago interviewing for residency training in radiology): here's your old page, from back when you were pushing the mywallet scam.

Quite respectable indeed, imbecile.

Hahhaha, pwn!

Where are the Bitcoin Foundation's masters? Dont hide you scamming fck.
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March 04, 2014, 04:30:21 AM
 #95

For as long as the Bitcoin Foundation controls the core developers who control the most popular fork of Bitcoin, y'all just blowin' hot air out ye arse.  Wink

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March 04, 2014, 04:33:16 AM
 #96


Pay devs (2 now)

How is that good? It's a famous Open Source project, do other big projects pay the dev team?*
*I know many of the .org projects run a .com business, but do they pay the devs?

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March 04, 2014, 04:36:52 AM
 #97

I must admit.
I have never heard of this Bitcoin Foundation before this post.

What is it that they do exactly?

Have a look. The OP isn't well respected, so take no notice.

https://bitcoinfoundation.org/forum/index.php?/topic/752-the-good-and-useful-things-the-foundation-has-done-for-us-members-compiled-by-dr-brian-goss/

Nice try, sidestepping the actual issues (such as you know, accounting fraud, tortious misrepresentation and quite possibly false pretenses, quite definitely embezzlement and a myriad other civil and criminal violations) by failful personal attacks (nobody heard of you, I'm easily on any list of respectable voices on this forum, buzz off) and a laundry list of...nonsense. Conferences don't count, and there's literally nothing else on that list.

Now go tell your puppet masters that a) you failed miserably and b) they'll need much much better damage control. Ideally, they'll need some lawyers. Preferably someone with an actual clue (which excludes Murck, he's the ninny that got them in their present muck).

Oh, and since two can play that game, "Dr." Brian Goss (a freshly failed medical student in Chicago interviewing for residency training in radiology): here's your old page, from back when you were pushing the mywallet scam...


For the noobs, mywallet was one of the first huge BTC thefts from a "hack"



Wow...

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March 04, 2014, 04:42:57 AM
 #98

How is that good? It's a famous Open Source project, do other big projects pay the dev team?*
*I know many of the .org projects run a .com business, but do they pay the devs?
I know of one company who actually produced clean-slate, engineered reimplementation of the Bitcoin reference client and gives it away as open source just so they'd have a stable base on which to build their actual business.
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March 04, 2014, 04:49:35 AM
Last edit: March 04, 2014, 01:04:24 PM by BadBear
 #99

For as long as the Bitcoin Foundation controls the core developers who control the most popular fork of Bitcoin, y'all just blowin' hot air out ye arse.  Wink

The most insane person in the thread was the only person to post the correct answer.  


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AnonyMint
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March 04, 2014, 05:17:08 AM
Last edit: March 04, 2014, 07:58:31 AM by AnonyMint
 #100

The so called Bitcoin Foundation gives Gavin money but I doubt he would destroy bitcoin for money.

Insert the word 'intentionally' between "would destroy".

Gavin is either complicit or more likely a pawn who thinks he is choosing the best compromises to grow the adoption. And I doubt Gavin has enough power to hard fork even if he wanted to. We are in political game theory now, and the power vacuum of democracy applies.

This is why I say an anonymous Benevolent Dictator for Life is critical, otherwise the power vacuum devolves into either chaos or vested interest control with manipulation of the irrational desires of the masses, e.g. "easy as facebook exchange between fiat".

Egypt or Ukraine serves as a salient recent example.

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