Calling out the Bitcoin Foundation Scam.

[MPOE-PR]

The Bitcoin Foundation was a large confidence scam perpetrated on the very naive, rather noobish yet very vain Bitcoin community cca 2012-2014 - and running for about as long as Pirate's ponzi.

It was thought out, constructed and initially run by Peter Vessenes, and then passed along to various accomplices. (Don't imagine that if I don't name you, we don't have the file. We have the file. You will be serving time, in all likelihood.)

It worked like so:

 1. Collect donations from the clueless yet vain. Because Bitcoin is full of people who belabour under the delusion that if they speak a lot about Bitcoin, if they paint "Bitcoin" all over the four walls of their dwelling and so on then they're somehow "part of Bitcoin". Charging these idiots a hefty fee for an "official" stamp of approval* is a logical next step, and it collected a massive warchest (even more than the thousands of BTC this forum - also run on MtGox servers - has collected for "software upgrades").

The CEO and Treasurer at the time, one Peter Vessenes simply pocketed this money. No report was ever published, no report will ever be published. More advanced than the MtGox scam, the Foundation is a "non profit" and it has no creditors, so nobody has standing to take them to court.

 2. Vouch for scams. It is very lucrative to sell protection; that's what most underworld kingpins do for a living. That's what the Bitcoin Foundation did for a living too, once the BTC price went up and the dubious character of the people running it became public knowledge (ie, once MP said so). With dwindling donation income and a never ending hunger for cash**, the Bitcoin Foundation was repurposed as a voucher for whoever could afford to pay. Like BFL. Like MtGox.

The only reason Pirate wasn't vouched for by the Bitcoin Foundation is that I killed him before he had a chance. The only reason the Patrick Harnett scammer didn't end up on their board is because MP killed him before he had a chance. The only reason Silk Road's guy wasn't vouched for by the Bitcoin Foundation is that he couldn't be bothered (or afford) to pay them. The only reason TradeFortress wasn't similarly has to do with cash. And this list could go on.
 
Think things through: it's not so hard to collect five thousand Bitcoin and then from that pay fifty to some clueless, famished nerd or other.

It's not hard to pretend like you're professional while you're lying through your teeth and defrauding everyone in sight.

It's not hard to pretend like you have "public support" when you're only talking to the clueless noobs that joined yesterday, who think Auroracoin actually "has a market cap" and so on. In a population of 19 yo Xavier Uni graduates, any lie can pass for truth if large enough and repeated often enough.

What is hard is to stand for something, what is hard is to speak the uncomfortable truths***, what is hard is to keep promises and to refuse to make promises that can't be kept and to tell would-be "powers that be" to pack it and move because Bitcoin is taking over.

But the Bitcoin Foundation isn't in the business of all that. The Bitcoin Foundation was in the business of taking money from they too stupid to keep it, and votes from they too clueless to have any money, and then sell the package to the highest bidder. Whoever it may be. Vessenes & co gotta be bought out after all, it's not like the shit they do has any intrinsic value whatsoever. Acquisition or bust, it's what they learned, it's what they do, it's what they'll teach you, if you'll let them. (And if you do let them you might as well use fiat, seriously now. It's easier, and insured.)

So now they're decamping to the UK in the hopes they may avoid US side prosecution, (a move deeply reminiscent of Vleisides, incidentally). Derp. You're all going to jail, boys and girls. You're all going to jail for being thieves, and liars, and con men. And to quote from a much older article of MP's (funny how that guy always wrote today's article months ago, isn't it?):

There’s just no way this little experiment in mishandling other people’s money can end up anywhere other than in a court, and there’s pretty good odds that it will be through penal rather than civil proceedings - the people involved are too many and too stupid for the state not to intervene.

Once that happens, I am positive and certain that the same people who are now running around calling their betters names will try to turn things into some sort of “mean state infringing on people’s rights”. They have a fine record at trying exactly that.

The problem is, the lot of them being packed up and hauled to jail would be no such infringement. It is at this point perfectly reasonable and quite unavoidable. Sure, they’ll try and sell this libertarian angle, that’s the curse of being pro-freedom : all the scumbags try to exploit you for their little profit turning “ideas”. It won’t wash. The girl that already beat you in the PR marketplace will beat you again, dear Sonny & co. She has the material right here.

---
* See this excellent quote from Chris Ballas:

And here I have to go back over something.  The harder part of the psychology is that the demo doesn't want to become full time traders, either at home all day or on Wall Street-- that part must remain a fantasy--  because then it would be a job and it wouldn't count; it has to be a side gig, then their success wasn't their "work self" but their "real" self;  no one else can claim a sliver of that success-- not the liberals with their "'entrepreneurs' just pretend they don't benefit from public services!" or the wives with their "behind every good man...!" or the echoes of their father yelling,  "you need to apply to Sperry Rand, now there's a company you can put in forty years with!"  It all happened in their head, no one else can share the credit, it is 100% a consequence of their personal value.    Bonus: if they fail, it can be quickly discounted as merely a hobby-- that wasn't, after all, their real self.

The mistake is in thinking this has anything to do with the money.  It's said that most at home traders fail, but this is incorrect: they fail at making money, but they are successful at feeling like a trader.  That is the goal; the money is secondary, which is why they fail at making it.  The buy/hold/reinvest the dividends strategy of Buffet is totally opposite to what's desired, because the strategy does not involve market timing or status updates, it is on autopilot, and there's no "i" in autopilot.  Well, there's one, but it doesn't stand out.

** This is the problem with scum posing as businessmen: the things they make aren't cash generators, they're cash black holes. This is fundamentally why we don't want scum to pass for businessmen: not because we don't like their ugly mugs, but because we don't want to be surrounded by "businesses" that only work if someone somewhere keeps printing money. We're not trying to re-build the US pseudo-economy here, quite the contrary.

*** From You Are The 98%:

There's a difference between what you need and what you want, and the media will always, relentlessly give you what you want.  Do you know why you have such poor candidates every single election?  Because you want them, you want someone you can easily judge for some sexual indiscretion or because they called latinos chicanos.  "Well, that matters to us!"  Then you got what you asked for.

The media will have data mined the culture and chosen for you two cans of Campbell's Chicken Soup, and then encouraged a public debate about which can is a better representation of the spirit of the country, the one on the left or the one on the right.  "Well, that matters to us!"  I know.  

[seriouscoin]

+ 1

We need to push this to the media so everyone should realize Bitcoin Foundation does not represent ANYTHING except themselves.

Its the shame they even name their "club" a Foundation

[rat]

couldn't agree more.

two of the core founders are known money laundering scammers.



isn't peter vessenes the dummy who didn't register coinlab as a money transmitter and lost $5 million of gox's money? lol!

[seriouscoin]

We should make our voice stronger. Make website to point out their scam. Post tweets and reddit to let the public know.

Make a warning in your signature to warn noobs on the forums
 

[raskul]

whilst children feel the need to play in groups, adults should be there to regulate such gatherings and games.
I've never been one for clubs, groups, cults, sects or foundations... the mere thought of such a thing, where bitcoin in concerned, is simply ridiculous.

hell, i'm still in the denial phase 'what do you mean you sell bitcoins on an exchange???!!!'

decentralise. do it now.

[seanneko]

+1

The Foundation has never done anything for Bitcoin. They sit back and let the money roll in.

[r0ach]

Wow, such shocking exposé, wow

I hate to agree with the original poster, because I mean this in the nicest way, that most of your posts come off as an angry sociopath.  But when every other thread on the forum has the word "charity" or "donation" in it, you can tell something isn't quite right on a forum inhabited mostly by scumbag day traders.

So for your Christopher Columbo detective skills, bravo, partially exposed for no reason, angry, sociopath lady!

- the dread shibe r0ach

[doof]

Just start a new one.  Call yourselves "the official foundation", register a domain and go.

[Come-from-Beyond]

http://dedecentralizationofbitcoin.wordpress.com/2012/10/05/de-decentralization-of-bitcoin/

[r0ach]

http://dedecentralizationofbitcoin.wordpress.com/2012/10/05/de-decentralization-of-bitcoin/

I thought there would be something more damning after reading all that, at least such as Charlie Shrem's eyebrows being a product of massive amounts of cocaine use.

Ironically, I think Voorhees just bankrupted himself at Gox.  And isn't a Bitcoincard just a QR barcode on a magnetic strip?  I'm not sure if the danger of fiat bitcoin exceeds that of the possibility (reality) of fiat gold if it became the world reserve currency.  Probably more likely that gold would be fractional reserve since it's more difficult to transport.  In the future, it's pretty obvious that fiat will probably be dead, and you will have crypto + gold taking over and co-existing to provide different security needs.  There will be multiple block chains as well.  If your NXT shilling has more provably secure systems against being fractional reserve, without compromising any other systems, then it's market share will eventually reflect that.

[pinkmonkey]

Also what happened to Theymos and upgrading the forum software with those $10 Million dollars donated to the forum???

[raskul]

Also what happened to Theymos and upgrading the forum software with those $10 Million dollars donated to the forum???

i can only presume the funds were given the 'decentralisation' treatment.

[Aswan]

what is hard is to keep promises and to refuse to make promises that can't be kept and to tell would-be "powers that be" to pack it and move because Bitcoin is taking over.

Yeah it's what most hardware developers do in the bitcoin world. I don't like buying something that says it will be delivered on January and then in January I get told I will have to wait until October with the seller keeping my money hostage and refusing to issue refunds...

[tinus42]

Just start a new one.  Call yourselves "the official foundation", register a domain and go.

Or how about the Provisional Bitcoin Foundation to be followed by the Continuity Bitcoin Foundation and Real Bitcoin Foundation?  

[Come-from-Beyond]

http://dedecentralizationofbitcoin.wordpress.com/2012/10/05/de-decentralization-of-bitcoin/

I thought there would be something more damning after reading all that, at least such as Charlie Shrem's eyebrows being a product of massive amounts of cocaine use.

I predicted that this won't finish well. Now it's time to say:

Told Ya So

[Rampion]

isn't peter vessenes the dummy who didn't register coinlab as a money transmitter and lost $5 million of gox's money? lol!

Peter Vessenes didn't lose the $5.3M belonging to MtGox customers. He stole them.

[Loozik]

isn't peter vessenes the dummy who didn't register coinlab as a money transmitter and lost $5 million of gox's money? lol!

Peter Vessenes didn't lose the $5.3M belonging to MtGox customers. He stole them.

Given today's Gox's revelation of Gox's being capable of losing not only crypto but also fiat, it should be duly noted that $5.3 currently hold by Coinlab are safer with Peter Vessenes than with Mark Karpeles.

[Zeeks]

It has become apparent that in a monetary system where possession is everything and it's trivial to move large sums to faceless and nameless accounts: everyone has a threshold where if they are handing a certain amount of money they will grab some or all of it for themselves.

Most of the big scandals in this community have turned out to be when someone got greedy and grabbed all the coins. When an "investment" or hardware production or exchange or webstore or whatever was closed because of "problems" it turns out later someone just walked off with the coins because it's so easy and most of the time nothing ever happens to them.

Well, they get a dreaded scammer tag. But only if they are not friends with someone important.

Entire subforums here are devoted to sites and services like this! Many people appear to realize it's games of musical chairs and just try to get in and out before the music stops. It's a bit sick.

[Lauda]

Interesting read. I'm with you on this. They should have been shut down long ago.

[BitCoinDream]

Just like we have multiple exchanges across the globe, we need to have multiple foundations too...

[S4VV4S]

I must admit.
I have never heard of this Bitcoin Foundation before this post.

What is it that they do exactly?

[BitOnyx]

Well everyone cal create foundation and can give it different names. No one car really force any one to give them money, same as no one can take away they money unless it would be used in different way than foundation states. We could create another foundation but who really want to waste time on it. Only problem might be they sometimes represent bitcoin, but soon second market or other bit company might to do and I wouldn't be surprised if it would end up even worst.

[Welsh]

Finally people have realized that they are nothing more than a scam, I have never supported anything which the foundation has done even though they have claimed many times that they represent the Bitcoin community. I can't believe so many 'respected' people actually supported them and even defended them on occasions where they have been call out to be a scam with quality evidence.

We don't need a foundation we don't need any one to represent the Bitcoin community or Bitcoin itself.

[Mitchell]

I agree with you MPOE-PR. They should have been shut down long ago. I'm against the Bitcoin Foundation and won't be represented by them nor will I ever acknowledge them as leaders, example, or whatever they might want to be. They aren't elected, they don't communicate with the community, you have to buy your way into it, etc. It's just a big no-go.

[RodeoX]

Yeah, what a scam to take peoples membership money and use it to organize conferences, lobby regulators, provide a resource for business and the press, to provide a space to coordinate the volunteer efforts of dozens of people who actually do something. Wow such scam! Only a doggy based coin could save us now.  

[Come-from-Beyond]

Yeah, what a scam to take peoples membership money and use it to organize conferences, lobby regulators, provide a resource for business and the press, to provide a space to coordinate the volunteer efforts of dozens of people who actually do something. Wow such scam! Only a doggy based coin could save us now.  

Bitcoin Foundation founders violated their own by-laws. Nuff said.

[Pangia]

I must admit.
I have never heard of this Bitcoin Foundation before this post.

What is it that they do exactly?

The do exactly what they were doing before you ever heard of them: NOTHING.

[S4VV4S]

I must admit.
I have never heard of this Bitcoin Foundation before this post.

What is it that they do exactly?

The do exactly what they were doing before you ever heard of them: NOTHING.

I guess that's why I have never heard of them

[QuestionAuthority]

I remember having a long debate with Yankee about the validity of having a "Bitcoin Foundation" in the announcement thread. There were four things that made it invalid for me and I never joined. It violates the prime directive: thou shalt not centralize a decentralized currency, it was formed without a discussion first, it's initial leadership was not representative of the community but representative of business instead and its primary goal was to have big business pay a developer to advance an open source project. Since then it has focused its attention on one country (because perhaps TBF leadership knew that would be the country that eventually jailed them and they needed the support). I ended my debate with Charlie by simply agreeing that it may be good for business but it's not for me and good luck. I was distraught by observing so many supposedly respectable and respected members of the community, which I believed was about real individual freedom, lashing out at anyone that didn't support the newly formed TBF because I did not see it supporting the concepts that these faux visionaries touted. The issue for me isn't the existence of TBF but the way it solicited its massive amount of funding by convincing simpletons to join a non representative organization, use that funding to advance goals that are not in the best interest of its membership and that it required those simpletons to reveal their true identity to be a member.

BTW: Props to MPOE-PR for shedding light on the big problems that no one else will.

[BittBurger]

couldn't agree more.

two of the core founders are known money laundering scammers.

This is a false statement.  
Based on the information that has been made available, I don't feel that Shrem had any intentions to defraud anyone, nor blatantly break any laundering laws.
As for Karpeles, nobody knows what happened yet.
He does display an incredibly abnormal behavior pattern (stuffing envelopes while Gox was crashed and in emergency state.  Deciding to take the weekend off while his team scrambled to get back online.  Taking his sweet time at Starbucks while people were outside his office, protesting the loss of millions of dollars).  
I dont know if that is arrogance, sociopath behavior or what, but his issues will be made clear soon.

http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2014/03/bitcoin-exchange/

His propensity for bragging and arrogance (as per the wired article at least), wanting to be called "King of Bitcoin" and bragging about his Mensa membership says a lot.
The fact that such an individual helped found the first centralized ego foundation for Bitcoin with 5,000 of his own coins, lends more credibility to the attitude behind the creation of the organization.

Keep the focus on the fact that Bitcoin doesn't need, and shouldn't have a Foundation.  
I realize this flies in the face of everything we understand about worldwide financial systems, but the internet never needed a Foundation.

And lets acknowledge that the Foundation has done some good things to help stave-off regulators for awhile, giving the platform some time to take hold around the world.
But there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that an organization like this should slowly be dissolved, else it will grow into something completely contrary to what Bitcoin represents, eventually.

-B-

[ThickAsThieves]

couldn't agree more.

two of the core founders are known money laundering scammers.

This is a false statement.  
Based on the information that has been made available, I don't feel that Shrem had any intentions to defraud anyone, nor blatantly break any laundering laws.
As for Karpeles, nobody knows what happened yet.
He does display an incredibly abnormal behavior pattern (stuffing envelopes while Gox was crashed and in emergency state.  Deciding to take the weekend off while his team scrambled to get back online.  Taking his sweet time at Starbucks while people were outside his office, protesting the loss of millions of dollars).  
I dont know if that is arrogance, sociopath behavior or what, but his issues will be made clear soon.

http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2014/03/bitcoin-exchange/

His propensity for bragging and arrogance (as per the wired article at least), wanting to be called "King of Bitcoin" and bragging about his Mensa membership says a lot.
The fact that such an individual helped found the first centralized ego foundation for Bitcoin with 5,000 of his own coins, lends more credibility to the attitude behind the creation of the organization.

Keep the focus on the fact that Bitcoin doesn't need, and shouldn't have a Foundation.  
I realize this flies in the face of everything we understand about worldwide financial systems, but the internet never needed a Foundation.

And lets acknowledge that the Foundation has done some good things to help stave-off regulators for awhile, giving the platform some time to take hold around the world.
But there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that an organization like this should slowly be dissolved, else it will grow into something completely contrary to what Bitcoin represents, eventually.

-B-

A personal lack of belief doesn't make a thing false.

Funding a board of illicit actors does not make one credible.

[r0ach]

It violates the prime directive: thou shalt not centralize a decentralized currency, it was formed without a discussion first, it's initial leadership was not representative of the community but representative of business instead

Problems posed by this idea:

1)  What happens if you attack TBF and Gavin gets mad and goes and becomes an amateur golfer instead.  Bitcoin still needs more hard forks before it's ready to run unattended for years/decades, and there's not many people who can easily create this consensus in a timely manner.  Even if you don't like TBF, it will probably do more harm than good attacking them, at least until every big fork is in the past.  Standard game theory, you're committing suicide to try and make a point for no gain.

2)  You can simply not donate if you don't want to, then you don't lose anything.

3)  If you plan to attack TBF, can you pick a less retarded date than the same week of MtGox.

[BittBurger]

A personal lack of belief doesn't make a thing false.

The statement was that they are *known scammers* and money launderers.  
That statement is false, at the very least because all the information isn't out yet, on either of them.
Karpeles situation indicates irresponsibility, arrogance, and possible sociopathy thus far.
Shrem situation reeks of a witch hunt by law enforcement, and I see zero indication of intent to break the law or defraud anyone.

What happens if you attack TBF and Gavin gets mad and goes and becomes an amateur golfer instead

Good point.  Gavin has expressed a strong desire to fully decentralize the development team, and said he is working with developers in other countries to try and get that going.  But right now, it would be a disaster if he walked away.

-B-

[Distortion1919]

I gotta take a shit 

[pizzaboy69696969]

Yeesh.  That's just what what Bitcoin needs - more bad press!

[MPOE-PR]

Yeah, what a scam to take peoples membership money and use it to organize conferences, lobby regulators, provide a resource for business and the press, to provide a space to coordinate the volunteer efforts of dozens of people who actually do something. Wow such scam!

Dream on.

PS. Do you use Axe? I feel inexplicably very attracted to you on a sexual level. It must be the advertisements didn't lie.

Bitcoin still needs more hard forks

No,  it does not. Nobody of any consequence runs anything past maybe 0.6 or so anyway. Just because a bunch of noobs with a bunch of dust downloaded the most recent release doesn't give it any sort of Bitcoin legitimacy. Currently the latest iOS and the latest bitcoin-qt are about equally relevant to Bitcoin,  which is roughly epsilon.

Nice work on the rest of your bullshit. They aren't points; they roughly reduce to "Pirate was fine and if you don't like ponzis you can just not participate". This was thoroughly debunked two years ago. Read that once a day for the next six months, maybe you get it somehow. In any case shut the fuck up for the interval, you don't have anything to contribute here.

[JohnnyBTCSeed]

hmmm,

So if one doesn't want to drink their koolaid then what are the alternatives?

1. Use/promote an altcoin. Nxt? Etherium? or 1000 other alts?

2. Create a non bitcoin foundation client and convince the majority of miners to accept. (take back bitcoin movement)


Can bitcoin be saved? or has the brand bitcoin been forever tainted and coerced? Has Gavin accepted the decentralized bitcoin jesus spirit into his heart?

I think personally that the wink twins are right about the $400 billion ish crypto market cap but I'm feeling that that number will be a total of all of the different crypto coins. One of them will eventually overtake bitcoin by offering such revolutionary ideas as decentralized, no transaction fees, and gasp, anonymousness.

[Bobsurplus]

I hate the foundation... Its filled with early adopter scamers who I'm sure will end up in jail at some point or another like Charlie did.

I bet some of the founding members were even on SR and we know that investigation will be ongoing for years to come.

We need new money investors on the foundation.

Circle, Winklevos ect....

[MPOE-PR]

hmmm,

So if one doesn't want to drink their koolaid then what are the alternatives?

1. Use/promote an altcoin. Nxt? Etherium? or 1000 other alts?

2. Create a non bitcoin foundation client and convince the majority of miners to accept. (take back bitcoin movement)


Can bitcoin be saved? or has the brand bitcoin been forever tainted and coerced? Has Gavin accepted the decentralized bitcoin jesus spirit into his heart?

I think personally that the wink twins are right about the $400 billion ish crypto market cap but I'm feeling that that number will be a total of all of the different crypto coins. One of them will eventually overtake bitcoin by offering such revolutionary ideas as decentralized, no transaction fees, and gasp, anonymousness.

The relation between the Bitcoin scamfoundation and Bitcoin is roughly the relation between the Westboro Baptist Church and email.

Bitcoin is and will continue to be fine. Alt coins are and will remain a play thing. These are decided by the people who matter, and the people who matter aren't either the derps vying for the spotlight "doing" altcoins nor the derps vying for the spotlight "doing" foundations, conferences, articles and assorted bullshit. Get your hierarchy straight.

[gollum]

Alt coins are and will remain a play thing. These are decided by the people who matter, and the people who matter aren't either the derps vying for the spotlight "doing" altcoins nor the derps vying for the spotlight "doing" foundations, conferences, articles and assorted bullshit.

I think you underestimate the alt-coins. If most people got burnt on MtGox they don't mind switch over to an alt-coin, they got nothing to lose.

Ripple is the best alt-coin right now since it's based on other assets than itself (the users add the intrinsic value).

[Peter Lambert]

+1 to OP, especially about the lack of any financial reports from the Foundation. You took in how many bitcoins, you did what with them? And now, without telling anybody that, you expect us to just keep giving you more bitcoins to feed the black hole? WTF?

If you need an example of what a financial report looks like (and wow, one every month!), you could just ask MPOE-PR to show you.

[Mitchell]

Ripple is the best alt-coin right now since it's based on other assets than itself (the users add the intrinsic value).

Don't make me laugh dude. Ripple is a bigger joke then dogecoin if you ask me.

[misterbigg]

OP brings up very good points and quite frankly MPOE-PR and co's track records are beginning to speak for themselves.

[JohnnyBTCSeed]

hmmm,

So if one doesn't want to drink their koolaid then what are the alternatives?

1. Use/promote an altcoin. Nxt? Etherium? or 1000 other alts?

2. Create a non bitcoin foundation client and convince the majority of miners to accept. (take back bitcoin movement)


Can bitcoin be saved? or has the brand bitcoin been forever tainted and coerced? Has Gavin accepted the decentralized bitcoin jesus spirit into his heart?

I think personally that the wink twins are right about the $400 billion ish crypto market cap but I'm feeling that that number will be a total of all of the different crypto coins. One of them will eventually overtake bitcoin by offering such revolutionary ideas as decentralized, no transaction fees, and gasp, anonymousness.

The relation between the Bitcoin scamfoundation and Bitcoin is roughly the relation between the Westboro Baptist Church and email.

Bitcoin is and will continue to be fine. Alt coins are and will remain a play thing. These are decided by the people who matter, and the people who matter aren't either the derps vying for the spotlight "doing" altcoins nor the derps vying for the spotlight "doing" foundations, conferences, articles and assorted bullshit. Get your hierarchy straight.

Ok, just so I can understand your points. You are saying the bitcoin foundation is a scam and bitcoin will have no problem thriving without them.

However, it seems to me we are stuck with them and their decisions at this point. Do we as a community not need gavin? If the bitcoin foundation is scammy then are they already to powerful? What if anything can be done? Is there any course of action or should we just file this info as interesting and go about our business and check back in a few years.
Just curious?
 

[Peter Lambert]

OP brings up very good points and quite frankly their track record is beginning to speak for itself.

The track record of MPOE-PR (good) and also the track record of the Bitcoin Foundation (bad).

[tinus42]

I hate the foundation... Its filled with early adopter scamers who I'm sure will end up in jail at some point or another like Charlie did.

I bet some of the founding members were even on SR and we know that investigation will be ongoing for years to come.

We need new money investors on the foundation.

Circle, Winklevos ect....

If you hate the foundation you shouldn't want Winklevii etc. on the board but the foundation thrown into the dustbin of history.

[Bobsurplus]

I hate the foundation... Its filled with early adopter scamers who I'm sure will end up in jail at some point or another like Charlie did.

I bet some of the founding members were even on SR and we know that investigation will be ongoing for years to come.

We need new money investors on the foundation.

Circle, Winklevos ect....

If you hate the foundation you shouldn't want Winklevii etc. on the board but the foundation thrown into the dustbin of history.

I think they would be good. They are as far as I can tell, legit.

[giszmo]

hmmm,

So if one doesn't want to drink their koolaid then what are the alternatives?

1. Use/promote an altcoin. Nxt? Etherium? or 1000 other alts?

2. Create a non bitcoin foundation client and convince the majority of miners to accept. (take back bitcoin movement)


Can bitcoin be saved? or has the brand bitcoin been forever tainted and coerced? Has Gavin accepted the decentralized bitcoin jesus spirit into his heart?

I think personally that the wink twins are right about the $400 billion ish crypto market cap but I'm feeling that that number will be a total of all of the different crypto coins. One of them will eventually overtake bitcoin by offering such revolutionary ideas as decentralized, no transaction fees, and gasp, anonymousness.

The relation between the Bitcoin scamfoundation and Bitcoin is roughly the relation between the Westboro Baptist Church and email.

Bitcoin is and will continue to be fine. Alt coins are and will remain a play thing. These are decided by the people who matter, and the people who matter aren't either the derps vying for the spotlight "doing" altcoins nor the derps vying for the spotlight "doing" foundations, conferences, articles and assorted bullshit. Get your hierarchy straight.

Ok, just so I can understand your points. You are saying the bitcoin foundation is a scam and bitcoin will have no problem thriving without them.

However, it seems to me we are stuck with them and their decisions at this point. Do we as a community not need gavin? If the bitcoin foundation is scammy then are they already to powerful? What if anything can be done? Is there any course of action or should we just file this info as interesting and go about our business and check back in a few years.
Just curious?

The so called Bitcoin Foundation gives Gavin money but I doubt he would destroy bitcoin for money.
For me the most important thing here is that people stop giving the Bitcoin Foundation more money. There is absolutely no need for a good Bitcoin Foundation to hoard the money "for us". If they do the right thing, we will give them our money at the right time, not upfront.

If you hate the foundation you shouldn't want Winklevii etc. on the board but the foundation thrown into the dustbin of history.

If they are scammers: To the dustbin of history with them but not with the money they scammed out of people.

[tinus42]

The so called Bitcoin Foundation gives Gavin money but I doubt he would destroy bitcoin for money.

If Gavin is essential for Bitcoin's survival there is something seriously wrong with it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bus_factor

[newguy05]

i agree the bitcoin foundation at best are absolutely useless and at worst promote bad players at the cost of the average joe. I used to drop a little donation to them here and there (not so little given today's prices) but have stopped and wish could get my money back.

They should have removed gox from the gold list a long time ago and mark karpele from the board, add insult to injury, they acted all surprised when gox revealed they were insolvent when majority of the people in the community already knew.

They have done little to promote bitcoins, when is the last event or promotion they did? what have they done to protect the average bitcoin users from all the scams including gox? How about encourage core development on bitcoin(d) itself?  Nothing

The whole organization is a waste of a domain name and oxygen.

I will not be supporting nor donating to them any further.

[ThickAsThieves]

hmmm,

So if one doesn't want to drink their koolaid then what are the alternatives?

1. Use/promote an altcoin. Nxt? Etherium? or 1000 other alts?

2. Create a non bitcoin foundation client and convince the majority of miners to accept. (take back bitcoin movement)


Can bitcoin be saved? or has the brand bitcoin been forever tainted and coerced? Has Gavin accepted the decentralized bitcoin jesus spirit into his heart?

I think personally that the wink twins are right about the $400 billion ish crypto market cap but I'm feeling that that number will be a total of all of the different crypto coins. One of them will eventually overtake bitcoin by offering such revolutionary ideas as decentralized, no transaction fees, and gasp, anonymousness.

The relation between the Bitcoin scamfoundation and Bitcoin is roughly the relation between the Westboro Baptist Church and email.

Bitcoin is and will continue to be fine. Alt coins are and will remain a play thing. These are decided by the people who matter, and the people who matter aren't either the derps vying for the spotlight "doing" altcoins nor the derps vying for the spotlight "doing" foundations, conferences, articles and assorted bullshit. Get your hierarchy straight.

Ok, just so I can understand your points. You are saying the bitcoin foundation is a scam and bitcoin will have no problem thriving without them.

However, it seems to me we are stuck with them and their decisions at this point. Do we as a community not need gavin? If the bitcoin foundation is scammy then are they already to powerful? What if anything can be done? Is there any course of action or should we just file this info as interesting and go about our business and check back in a few years.
Just curious?
 

1. The Bitcoin Foundation has no power, only a voice. ...Even that is being snuffed out like the Boy Who Cried Wolf... Only the boy is a wolf, and the "community", it's sheep.

2. Bitcoin does not need Gavin (nor Hearn, etc), it merely suffers them while it determines whether they can separate their heads from their asses.

3. "We" (well, you, and the Foundation) are not an actual "community" in the way you perceive it to be. There's no common cause between a sheep and a wolf.

[Lauda]

Yeah, what a scam to take peoples membership money and use it to organize conferences, lobby regulators, provide a resource for business and the press, to provide a space to coordinate the volunteer efforts of dozens of people who actually do something. Wow such scam! Only a doggy based coin could save us now.  

Actually this is what makes the scam more perfect. You're covering it up by 'using' money for this, while you're actually taking more for yourself.

[bitcyclenet]

wow.. didn't realize that until now..
I thought they were legit -.-

[raskul]

i've had a light bulb moment.
everyone should donate me some bitcoin, then i'll go to the pub and tell folk about bitcoin, using donations to buy the most expensive whisky at the bar, i'll get so drunk, everyone will know about bitcoin.

The Raskul Foundation  

[JohnnyBTCSeed]

hmmm,

So if one doesn't want to drink their koolaid then what are the alternatives?

1. Use/promote an altcoin. Nxt? Etherium? or 1000 other alts?

2. Create a non bitcoin foundation client and convince the majority of miners to accept. (take back bitcoin movement)


Can bitcoin be saved? or has the brand bitcoin been forever tainted and coerced? Has Gavin accepted the decentralized bitcoin jesus spirit into his heart?

I think personally that the wink twins are right about the $400 billion ish crypto market cap but I'm feeling that that number will be a total of all of the different crypto coins. One of them will eventually overtake bitcoin by offering such revolutionary ideas as decentralized, no transaction fees, and gasp, anonymousness.

The relation between the Bitcoin scamfoundation and Bitcoin is roughly the relation between the Westboro Baptist Church and email.

Bitcoin is and will continue to be fine. Alt coins are and will remain a play thing. These are decided by the people who matter, and the people who matter aren't either the derps vying for the spotlight "doing" altcoins nor the derps vying for the spotlight "doing" foundations, conferences, articles and assorted bullshit. Get your hierarchy straight.

Ok, just so I can understand your points. You are saying the bitcoin foundation is a scam and bitcoin will have no problem thriving without them.

However, it seems to me we are stuck with them and their decisions at this point. Do we as a community not need gavin? If the bitcoin foundation is scammy then are they already to powerful? What if anything can be done? Is there any course of action or should we just file this info as interesting and go about our business and check back in a few years.
Just curious?
 

1. The Bitcoin Foundation has no power, only a voice. ...Even that is being snuffed out like the Boy Who Cried Wolf... Only the boy is a wolf, and the "community", it's sheep.

2. Bitcoin does not need Gavin (nor Hearn, etc), it merely suffers them while it determines whether they can separate their heads from their asses.

3. "We" (well, you, and the Foundation) are not an actual "community" in the way you perceive it to be. There's no common cause between a sheep and a wolf.

to clarify...
"we" as in users of bitcoin.

ok, I give up. I don't have enough posts under my belt to shoot the shit with you big boys. I'll check back in a few years. Hopefully yall have figured this out by then.

[gollum]

If the rats leave the bitcoin ship the foundation can have fun with their playmoney.
We start a new bitcoin 2.0 with no premining (im not talking about an alt-coin, but an exact copy of bitcoin)

[newguy05]

If the rats leave the bitcoin ship the foundation can have fun with their playmoney.
We start a new bitcoin 2.0 with no premining (im not talking about an alt-coin, but an exact copy of bitcoin)

lol good luck with that...

[aTg]

+1

From the first time they have no meaning to exist, bitcoin is protected by itself.

Why is not the foundation investigating the gox fraud?

[RodeoX]

Yeah, what a scam to take peoples membership money and use it to organize conferences, lobby regulators, provide a resource for business and the press, to provide a space to coordinate the volunteer efforts of dozens of people who actually do something. Wow such scam! Only a doggy based coin could save us now.  

Actually this is what makes the scam more perfect. You're covering it up by 'using' money for this, while you're actually taking more for yourself.

Oh I am? That's quite a surprise, but I'll take it. Where do I pick up my share of the scam money?
So let's break down your statement and associated premises.

1. There is a grand scam. But you can't explain it because it is so....?
2. There is a coverup. The proof of the coverup is the denial of the grand scam.
3. I'm involved and taking the money for myself.  What money, I have no clue?

[Lauda]

Actually this is what makes the scam more perfect. You're covering it up by 'using' money for this, while you're actually taking more for yourself.

Oh I am? That's quite a surprise, but I'll take it. Where do I pick up my share of the scam money?
So let's break down your statement and associated premises.

1. There is a grand scam. But you can't explain it because it is so....?
2. There is a coverup. The proof of the coverup is the denial of the grand scam.
3. I'm involved and taking the money for myself.  What money, I have no clue?

Sorry, not you   (badly written sentence).
Let's say the CEO of TBF is covering it up...

[RodeoX]

Actually this is what makes the scam more perfect. You're covering it up by 'using' money for this, while you're actually taking more for yourself.

Oh I am? That's quite a surprise, but I'll take it. Where do I pick up my share of the scam money?
So let's break down your statement and associated premises.

1. There is a grand scam. But you can't explain it because it is so....?
2. There is a coverup. The proof of the coverup is the denial of the grand scam.
3. I'm involved and taking the money for myself.  What money, I have no clue?

Sorry, not you   (badly written sentence).
Let's say the CEO of TBF is covering it up...

I'm not blindly defending the foundation here. The crap with Charlie was ridiculous and criminal. But that was a shock to BF members also. Not having a foundation or foundations (the more the better IMO) means surrendering your rights to the ignorant whims of policy makers.
Instead of tearing down an organization that fights for bitcoin, why not start your own? The BF does not officially represent bitcoin. That means anyone can start their own.
It also means you can argue for different positions on issues.
For example, some here believe that bitcoin should be totally anonymous and/or nontaxable. A new group could be formed to push for that agenda. I would love it if this happened! To argue this you will need to hire a lawyer/lobbyist and set up some meeting in Washington. It is going to be expensive, so your going to need money from your members. These members will be backing an idea with a zero sum. The lawyers are either going to convince lawmakers that bitcoin should be exempt from U.S. law, or they are going to get nothing and like it. That is why I support the BF. They are in the best position to get something done because they take smarter positions. If someone else has a better idea, I'm all ears.

 

[r0ach]

Bitcoin still needs more hard forks

No,  it does not. Nobody of any consequence runs anything past maybe 0.6 or so anyway. Just because a bunch of noobs with a bunch of dust downloaded the most recent release doesn't give it any sort of Bitcoin legitimacy. Currently the latest iOS and the latest bitcoin-qt are about equally relevant to Bitcoin,  which is roughly epsilon.

Nice work on the rest of your bullshit. They aren't points; they roughly reduce to "Pirate was fine and if you don't like ponzis you can just not participate". This was thoroughly debunked two years ago. Read that once a day for the next six months, maybe you get it somehow. In any case shut the fuck up for the interval, you don't have anything to contribute here.

Yea, that's a great idea, leave block size as it is so you can cap out at 7 TPS and go nowhere.  A limit like that could be reached within 1 year with people like Ebay, Amazon, etc signing on.  Bitcoin still has it's training wheels on and isn't going to be anything of relevance without Gavin babysitting it for another year.  You're basically someone attempting to profit off the backs of other people's work while criticizing them for it.  It doesn't really matter if they're scammers or CIA agents, or whatever, the point still stands, you're the one getting a free ride.  And please stop pretending to be a woman on the internet.  If you are a woman, that's the most sociopathic, hateful, angry, psycho woman I've ever seen.

[escrow.ms]

Well, I agree with you.

They gave their silver membership seal (aka license of Trust and Promotion) to several sites, but when users got scammed, they did nothing.
For example: Inputs.io  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=253675.0
It's still there : https://members.bitcoinfoundation.org/current

Oh btw, platinum member (mtgox) is not on the list anymore.


Ps: Someone really needs to edit wikipedia 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitcoin_Foundation (The Bitcoin Foundation is a charitable foundation) Charitable??

 

[desired_username]

What have the Romans ever done for us? 

[Mitchell]

Well, I agree with you.

They gave their silver membership seal (aka license of Trust and Promotion) to several sites, but when users got scammed, they did nothing.
For example: Inputs.io  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=253675.0
It's still there : https://members.bitcoinfoundation.org/current

Oh btw, platinum member (mtgox) is not on the list anymore.

That's just bad. Damn.

What have the Romans ever done for us? 

A lot. Please come back with a valid argument.

[Peter Lambert]

What have the Romans ever done for us? 

? What do Romans have to do with the Bitcoin Foundation?

[ThickAsThieves]

What have the Romans ever done for us? 

Can't tell if joking! (Mr. Popescu is Romanian, not Roman)

[desired_username]

What have the Romans ever done for us? 

? What do Romans have to do with the Bitcoin Foundation?

It was a monty python reference:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExWfh6sGyso

enjoy

[ThickAsThieves]

What have the Romans ever done for us? 

? What do Romans have to do with the Bitcoin Foundation?

It was a monty python reference:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExWfh6sGyso

enjoy

Ah, that's why I don't know it. I can't stand Monty Python.

[desired_username]

To be clear I'm not pro or anti foundation.

Personally, I agree that they are not transparent enough, that's why I don't send them money.

OP has a point in this regard, but the drama is completely unnecessary considering that everyone is free to create "competition"...

[MPOE-PR]

Yea, that's a great idea, leave block size as it is so you can cap out at 7 TPS and go nowhere.  A limit like that could be reached within 1 year with people like Ebay, Amazon, etc signing on.

I don’t think it’s either practical nor feasible nor even desirable to use Bitcoin in the day to day dabble of pizzas, phone credits, hairspray and sneakers. People try to, because of the misguided belief that Bitcoin value is somehow related to or deriving from its crossection in the retail market. This happens to be completely untrue : you can’t buy any pizza with SDRs, and yet that doesn’t somehow make SDRs worthless. The belief itself may be a case of “everything appears a nail to the man holding a hammer”, in the sense that people who have never interracted with any other aspect of economy besides the supermarket counter may genuinely imagine that’s what economy is. Still, that makes no difference.

On a third hand, from a technical perspective Bitcoin is neither designed to nor capable to support retail level transactions. The credit card processors (Visa, Mastercard, AmEx etc) cleared something to the tune of one billion transactions in 2010. At an average size of a very conservative 600 bytes per transaction that would have added 600 Gb to the blockchain. At roughly 1% of that for its entire 4 year history Bitcoin is already too heavy, causing serious problems for people trying to start a new client. Moreover the year of 2010 contained about 50k blocks, which at most may carry 1 Mb each : even if each block was full Bitcoin could have at most carried 10% of that sort of volume.

For the reasons noted and for many other reasons I am pretty much satisfied that Bitcoin is not nor will it ever be a direct means of payment for retail anything. You may end up paying for a month’s worth of coffee vouchers at your favourite coffee shop via Bitcoin (so shop scrip built on top of Bitcoin), you may end up settling your accounts monthly at the restaurant in Bitcoin (so store credit built on top of Bitcoin), you will probably cash into whatever local currency from Bitcoin (be it Unified Standard Dubaloos or Universally Simplified Dosidoes or whatever else) but all that is entirely different a story.

via Bitcoin prices, Bitcoin inflexibility.

Well, I agree with you.

They gave their silver membership seal (aka license of Trust and Promotion) to several sites, but when users got scammed, they did nothing.
For example: Inputs.io  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=253675.0
It's still there : https://members.bitcoinfoundation.org/current

Oh btw, platinum member (mtgox) is not on the list anymore.

The most offensive part about this isn't that they STILL list stuff like GBBG, but the despicably silent way they go about removing the scams. Is BFL there anymore? No. The statement about how they pushed a scam and are sorry? Published the same place the reports were published. Gox is not there anymore? Whoa, the silence about it is deafening. Sort-of like bit scammers a la usagi or goat going through the forum and deleting their old posts pushing whatever random scam. Never happened, right?

[corebob]

How about we forget about the Bitcoin Foundation and make our own. If you have a bitcoin address, you are a member

[Peter Lambert]

How about we forget about the Bitcoin Foundation and make our own. If you have a bitcoin address, you are a member

Anybody can have an address, that does not mean they understand anything about what is going on.

[Bit_Happy]

http://dedecentralizationofbitcoin.wordpress.com/2012/10/05/de-decentralization-of-bitcoin/

Everyone should see that.

[Bit_Happy]

I must admit.
I have never heard of this Bitcoin Foundation before this post.

What is it that they do exactly?

They enjoy a huge pile of BTC donated when it was cheap.
They get accused of massive conflicts of interest.
That is a fast, exact summary.

[tayfun73]

+1

From the first time they have no meaning to exist, bitcoin is protected by itself.

Why is not the foundation investigating the gox fraud?

Hmmm, you ask that question, yet you know the answer already. 

[hyunsookmom]

I don't know anything about this foundation but it seems to me Bitcoin doesn't need any central committee or foundation cause once you get people with power then you have the potential for corruption. Bitcoin as a technology does away with people surely that the whole point.

[tabnloz]

It is a shame that it has devolved to this.

having a public voice, name and representation helps legitimize and increase adoption with the gen pop.

but having a "centralised" entity for a decentralised, disruptive platform is problematic as the best way to destroy a decentralised entity is to turn it centralised: it puts names and faces in the firing line. So, TBF needed to all be cleanskins, honest and with integrity.

Unfortunately this has not been the case and as such we have multiple scandals and the community turns on itself.

[Kouye]

Why is this thread still here, and not in the "Scam Accusations" sub, to which it rightfully belongs?

[2bitidiot]

The foundation's leadership is being overhauled. Vessenes and Matonis are out shortly. Pros are coming.

[Atruk]

The foundation's leadership is being overhauled. Vessenes and Matonis are out shortly. Pros are coming.

Zed's Dead.

Let us hope this is the end of the imagination foundation.

[Bit_Happy]

I don't know anything about this foundation but it seems to me Bitcoin doesn't need any central committee or foundation cause once you get people with power then you have the potential for corruption. Bitcoin as a technology does away with people surely that the whole point.

They have some power, but a really bad rep.

[Nancarrow]

The foundation's leadership is being overhauled. Vessenes and Matonis are out shortly. Pros are coming.

I'm not fully in the loop. I know Vessenes is a parasite, but what's bad about Matonis?

[Nathonas]

My reaction to OP



Seriously though, this whole Bitcoin Foundation business is very interesting. For some reason, because I kept reading about them on reddit and because they have such a nice and important sounding name, I assumed they were doing something useful in the Bitcoin community. But when you think about ,what HAVE they contributed? I don't know if they're a scam, but all I know is they've been pocketing money and not really outputting anything I've heard of. This needs further investigation. OP is a little aggressive but raises an important issue.

[bananas]

true story

[Mike Christ]

What a shame; I wouldn't trust another man to handle my money properly, unless I wanted him to keep it for himself--but then it wouldn't be my money anymore.  But since people go through most of their lives giving up money (except unlike TBF, at gunpoint) to strangers to pay for their roads, children's education and defense etc., I can see how such a mistake can go unnoticed to the individual who has yet to detect that his money is not being spent wisely (nor will it ever, if you average the times between other men handling your money properly vs. improperly).

The lesson to learn: if you honestly want your money to go to the best businesses and causes, you need to spend that money yourself.  We all learn it as children: be responsible.  You cannot have responsibility over that which beyond your control, nor is it beneficial to leave this trust unto others to be responsible in your absence, except when you actually do trust those people, and I've had some friends far longer than TBF has existed that I wouldn't trust with my money.  Honestly, it is a shame to see the good intentions of people misused, but such is the result for one who is not careful.

[ivroer]

OP brings up very good points and quite frankly their track record is beginning to speak for itself.

The track record of MPOE-PR (good) and also the track record of the Bitcoin Foundation (bad).

I move that MPOE-PR be appointed supreme dictator of the Bitcoin Foundation.

Hopefully these will be the first orders of business: dissolve, disband, liquidate.


Seriously though, here is my 2 satoshis for what it's worth:
In my early exposure to Bitcoin I thought it was likely a scam due the existence of tBF. Only after digging into the heart of technical (protocol) details made me believe it was truly something new and worth pursuing. I think it all comes down to a naming choice, if the word Bitcoin wasn't in their name then no one would care.

[Lauda]

OP brings up very good points and quite frankly their track record is beginning to speak for itself.

The track record of MPOE-PR (good) and also the track record of the Bitcoin Foundation (bad).

The track records of TBC board members is also neutral or bad (mostly).

[repentance]

The foundation's leadership is being overhauled. Vessenes and Matonis are out shortly. Pros are coming.

I thought they were just leaving Bitcoin Foundation in order to set up a UK-based international Bitcoin body.  If you consider them incompetent or undesirable representatives of Bitcoin at a national level, then them representing it at an international is hardly a positive thing.

[bg002h]

The Bitcoin Foundation was a large confidence scam perpetrated on the very naive, rather noobish yet very vain Bitcoin community cca 2012-2014 - and running for about as long as Pirate's ponzi.

It was thought out, constructed and initially run by Peter Vessenes, and then passed along to various accomplices. (Don't imagine that if I don't name you, we don't have the file. We have the file. You will be serving time, in all likelihood.)

It worked like so:

 1. Collect donations from the clueless yet vain. Because Bitcoin is full of people who belabour under the delusion that if they speak a lot about Bitcoin, if they paint "Bitcoin" all over the four walls of their dwelling and so on then they're somehow "part of Bitcoin". Charging these idiots a hefty fee for an "official" stamp of approval* is a logical next step, and it collected a massive warchest (even more than the thousands of BTC this forum - also run on MtGox servers - has collected for "software upgrades").

The CEO and Treasurer at the time, one Peter Vessenes simply pocketed this money. No report was ever published, no report will ever be published. More advanced than the MtGox scam, the Foundation is a "non profit" and it has no creditors, so nobody has standing to take them to court.

 2. Vouch for scams. It is very lucrative to sell protection; that's what most underworld kingpins do for a living. That's what the Bitcoin Foundation did for a living too, once the BTC price went up and the dubious character of the people running it became public knowledge (ie, once MP said so). With dwindling donation income and a never ending hunger for cash**, the Bitcoin Foundation was repurposed as a voucher for whoever could afford to pay. Like BFL. Like MtGox.

The only reason Pirate wasn't vouched for by the Bitcoin Foundation is that I killed him before he had a chance. The only reason the Patrick Harnett scammer didn't end up on their board is because MP killed him before he had a chance. The only reason Silk Road's guy wasn't vouched for by the Bitcoin Foundation is that he couldn't be bothered (or afford) to pay them. The only reason TradeFortress wasn't similarly has to do with cash. And this list could go on.
 
Think things through: it's not so hard to collect five thousand Bitcoin and then from that pay fifty to some clueless, famished nerd or other.

It's not hard to pretend like you're professional while you're lying through your teeth and defrauding everyone in sight.

It's not hard to pretend like you have "public support" when you're only talking to the clueless noobs that joined yesterday, who think Auroracoin actually "has a market cap" and so on. In a population of 19 yo Xavier Uni graduates, any lie can pass for truth if large enough and repeated often enough.

What is hard is to stand for something, what is hard is to speak the uncomfortable truths***, what is hard is to keep promises and to refuse to make promises that can't be kept and to tell would-be "powers that be" to pack it and move because Bitcoin is taking over.

But the Bitcoin Foundation isn't in the business of all that. The Bitcoin Foundation was in the business of taking money from they too stupid to keep it, and votes from they too clueless to have any money, and then sell the package to the highest bidder. Whoever it may be. Vessenes & co gotta be bought out after all, it's not like the shit they do has any intrinsic value whatsoever. Acquisition or bust, it's what they learned, it's what they do, it's what they'll teach you, if you'll let them. (And if you do let them you might as well use fiat, seriously now. It's easier, and insured.)

So now they're decamping to the UK in the hopes they may avoid US side prosecution, (a move deeply reminiscent of Vleisides, incidentally). Derp. You're all going to jail, boys and girls. You're all going to jail for being thieves, and liars, and con men. And to quote from a much older article of MP's (funny how that guy always wrote today's article months ago, isn't it?):

There’s just no way this little experiment in mishandling other people’s money can end up anywhere other than in a court, and there’s pretty good odds that it will be through penal rather than civil proceedings - the people involved are too many and too stupid for the state not to intervene.

Once that happens, I am positive and certain that the same people who are now running around calling their betters names will try to turn things into some sort of “mean state infringing on people’s rights”. They have a fine record at trying exactly that.

The problem is, the lot of them being packed up and hauled to jail would be no such infringement. It is at this point perfectly reasonable and quite unavoidable. Sure, they’ll try and sell this libertarian angle, that’s the curse of being pro-freedom : all the scumbags try to exploit you for their little profit turning “ideas”. It won’t wash. The girl that already beat you in the PR marketplace will beat you again, dear Sonny & co. She has the material right here.

---
* See this excellent quote from Chris Ballas:

And here I have to go back over something.  The harder part of the psychology is that the demo doesn't want to become full time traders, either at home all day or on Wall Street-- that part must remain a fantasy--  because then it would be a job and it wouldn't count; it has to be a side gig, then their success wasn't their "work self" but their "real" self;  no one else can claim a sliver of that success-- not the liberals with their "'entrepreneurs' just pretend they don't benefit from public services!" or the wives with their "behind every good man...!" or the echoes of their father yelling,  "you need to apply to Sperry Rand, now there's a company you can put in forty years with!"  It all happened in their head, no one else can share the credit, it is 100% a consequence of their personal value.    Bonus: if they fail, it can be quickly discounted as merely a hobby-- that wasn't, after all, their real self.

The mistake is in thinking this has anything to do with the money.  It's said that most at home traders fail, but this is incorrect: they fail at making money, but they are successful at feeling like a trader.  That is the goal; the money is secondary, which is why they fail at making it.  The buy/hold/reinvest the dividends strategy of Buffet is totally opposite to what's desired, because the strategy does not involve market timing or status updates, it is on autopilot, and there's no "i" in autopilot.  Well, there's one, but it doesn't stand out.

** This is the problem with scum posing as businessmen: the things they make aren't cash generators, they're cash black holes. This is fundamentally why we don't want scum to pass for businessmen: not because we don't like their ugly mugs, but because we don't want to be surrounded by "businesses" that only work if someone somewhere keeps printing money. We're not trying to re-build the US pseudo-economy here, quite the contrary.

*** From You Are The 98%:

There's a difference between what you need and what you want, and the media will always, relentlessly give you what you want.  Do you know why you have such poor candidates every single election?  Because you want them, you want someone you can easily judge for some sexual indiscretion or because they called latinos chicanos.  "Well, that matters to us!"  Then you got what you asked for.

The media will have data mined the culture and chosen for you two cans of Campbell's Chicken Soup, and then encouraged a public debate about which can is a better representation of the spirit of the country, the one on the left or the one on the right.  "Well, that matters to us!"  I know.  

Undoing the ignore long enough to skim this post was just not a wise move on my part...

[bg002h]

I must admit.
I have never heard of this Bitcoin Foundation before this post.

What is it that they do exactly?

Have a look. The OP isn't well respected, so take no notice.

https://bitcoinfoundation.org/forum/index.php?/topic/752-the-good-and-useful-things-the-foundation-has-done-for-us-members-compiled-by-dr-brian-goss/

[MPOE-PR]

I must admit.
I have never heard of this Bitcoin Foundation before this post.

What is it that they do exactly?

Have a look. The OP isn't well respected, so take no notice.

https://bitcoinfoundation.org/forum/index.php?/topic/752-the-good-and-useful-things-the-foundation-has-done-for-us-members-compiled-by-dr-brian-goss/

Nice try, sidestepping the actual issues (such as you know, accounting fraud, tortious misrepresentation and quite possibly false pretenses, quite definitely embezzlement and a myriad other civil and criminal violations) by failful personal attacks (nobody heard of you, I'm easily on any list of respectable voices on this forum, buzz off) and a laundry list of...nonsense. Conferences don't count, and there's literally nothing else on that list.

Now go tell your puppet masters that a) you failed miserably and b) they'll need much much better damage control. Ideally, they'll need some lawyers. Preferably someone with an actual clue (which excludes Murck, he's the ninny that got them in their present muck).

Oh, and since two can play that game, "Dr." Brian Goss (a freshly failed medical student in Chicago interviewing for residency training in radiology): here's your old page, from back when you were pushing the mywallet scam.

Quite respectable indeed, imbecile.

[r0ach]

I don’t think it’s either practical nor feasible nor even desirable to use Bitcoin in the day to day dabble of pizzas, phone credits, hairspray and sneakers. People try to, because of the misguided belief that Bitcoin value is somehow related to or deriving from its crossection in the retail market.

Looks to me more and more like you're trying to destroy Bitcoin.  If Bitcoin doesn't try to compete in internet retailer purchases, such as Amazon, Ebay, etc, then it can easily fade into obscurity and be replaced by another product that does it all.  Market cap and liquidity is everything.  Amazon alone does 75 billion in sales a year.  Bitcoin wasn't created so that you have to convert BTC to fiat anytime you want to do something, it was created to spend in it's on units on these sites.  Pruning or other methods have to be worked on to improve this unless you just want a small number of super nodes, which seems to be the current course even at 7 TPS.

Another reason I see you either trying to destroy Bitcoin, or having no idea what you're doing, is that you seem to be one of those people who promote Bitcoin as the only coin that should exist.  You must not know how finance works at all if you think that's going to happen.  There are many reasons why altcoins will exist:

1)  People want to be able to hedge to prevent catastrophic loss that can occur from a single block chain.  The finance industry demands it, and they will get it.

2)  A single developer (Gavin) being able to screw up a software update and causing a fork that destroys a 10+ billion dollar business is not an option.  See #1.  People will want to minimize their possible risks to 10-20% loss for attacks or things like this happening.

3)  Demand for anonymous transactions vs open transactions.

4)  Practical hardware/space limitations of a single chain that has already been discussed.

5)  The usage of PoS as a virtual bank.

6)  How easy it is for a government to co-opt, attack, or take over a single chain.  It's much harder to take over or destroy 10 at once.  My estimate is, there will be 5-10 large coins.

7)  Dozens more that I don't feel like typing.

[seriouscoin]

I must admit.
I have never heard of this Bitcoin Foundation before this post.

What is it that they do exactly?

Have a look. The OP isn't well respected, so take no notice.

https://bitcoinfoundation.org/forum/index.php?/topic/752-the-good-and-useful-things-the-foundation-has-done-for-us-members-compiled-by-dr-brian-goss/

Nice try, sidestepping the actual issues (such as you know, accounting fraud, tortious misrepresentation and quite possibly false pretenses, quite definitely embezzlement and a myriad other civil and criminal violations) by failful personal attacks (nobody heard of you, I'm easily on any list of respectable voices on this forum, buzz off) and a laundry list of...nonsense. Conferences don't count, and there's literally nothing else on that list.

Now go tell your puppet masters that a) you failed miserably and b) they'll need much much better damage control. Ideally, they'll need some lawyers. Preferably someone with an actual clue (which excludes Murck, he's the ninny that got them in their present muck).

Oh, and since two can play that game, "Dr." Brian Goss (a freshly failed medical student in Chicago interviewing for residency training in radiology): here's your old page, from back when you were pushing the mywallet scam.

Quite respectable indeed, imbecile.

Hahhaha, pwn!

Where are the Bitcoin Foundation's masters? Dont hide you scamming fck.

[AnonyMint]

For as long as the Bitcoin Foundation controls the core developers who control the most popular fork of Bitcoin, y'all just blowin' hot air out ye arse.  

[Bit_Happy]

...
https://bitcoinfoundation.org/forum/index.php?/topic/752-the-good-and-useful-things-the-foundation-has-done-for-us-members-compiled-by-dr-brian-goss/

Pay devs (2 now)

How is that good? It's a famous Open Source project, do other big projects pay the dev team?*
*I know many of the .org projects run a .com business, but do they pay the devs?

[Bit_Happy]

I must admit.
I have never heard of this Bitcoin Foundation before this post.

What is it that they do exactly?

Have a look. The OP isn't well respected, so take no notice.

https://bitcoinfoundation.org/forum/index.php?/topic/752-the-good-and-useful-things-the-foundation-has-done-for-us-members-compiled-by-dr-brian-goss/

Nice try, sidestepping the actual issues (such as you know, accounting fraud, tortious misrepresentation and quite possibly false pretenses, quite definitely embezzlement and a myriad other civil and criminal violations) by failful personal attacks (nobody heard of you, I'm easily on any list of respectable voices on this forum, buzz off) and a laundry list of...nonsense. Conferences don't count, and there's literally nothing else on that list.

Now go tell your puppet masters that a) you failed miserably and b) they'll need much much better damage control. Ideally, they'll need some lawyers. Preferably someone with an actual clue (which excludes Murck, he's the ninny that got them in their present muck).

Oh, and since two can play that game, "Dr." Brian Goss (a freshly failed medical student in Chicago interviewing for residency training in radiology): here's your old page, from back when you were pushing the mywallet scam...

For the noobs, mywallet was one of the first huge BTC thefts from a "hack"



Wow...

[justusranvier]

How is that good? It's a famous Open Source project, do other big projects pay the dev team?*
*I know many of the .org projects run a .com business, but do they pay the devs?

I know of one company who actually produced clean-slate, engineered reimplementation of the Bitcoin reference client and gives it away as open source just so they'd have a stable base on which to build their actual business.

[r0ach]

For as long as the Bitcoin Foundation controls the core developers who control the most popular fork of Bitcoin, y'all just blowin' hot air out ye arse.  

The most insane person in the thread was the only person to post the correct answer.  

[AnonyMint]

The so called Bitcoin Foundation gives Gavin money but I doubt he would destroy bitcoin for money.

Insert the word 'intentionally' between "would destroy".

Gavin is either complicit or more likely a pawn who thinks he is choosing the best compromises to grow the adoption. And I doubt Gavin has enough power to hard fork even if he wanted to. We are in political game theory now, and the power vacuum of democracy applies.

This is why I say an anonymous Benevolent Dictator for Life is critical, otherwise the power vacuum devolves into either chaos or vested interest control with manipulation of the irrational desires of the masses, e.g. "easy as facebook exchange between fiat".

Egypt or Ukraine serves as a salient recent example.

[tvbcof]

Watching*

(*) which I feel at liberty to do being one of the VERY early people to call the Bitcoin Foundation out when fuckin near everyone else was all ga-ga over it...

[chriswilmer]

I haven't seen anyone point out that the Bitcoin Foundation pays Gavin's salary, so that he can focus on developing the Bitcoin protocol. That seems like money well spent, right? (feel free to make counter arguments... I certainly don't inspect Gavin's code contributions personally)

[r0ach]

And I doubt Gavin has enough power to hard fork even if he wanted to.

He easily does.  Same thing with Sunny King and proof of stake.  Since not even the developer himself really seems to understand how proof of stake works, and all the secondary or unintended consequences of each variable, few people have the authority to create a consensus to stop something if he wants it to happen.  Bitcoin is the same way.  It's easier to understand the general concepts of PoW, but there's still secondary or unintended consequences that make the "authority figures" divisible by a handful, or maybe even 1, especially when each change has to conform to future plans that aren't even known by all parties.

[justusranvier]

I haven't seen anyone point out that the Bitcoin Foundation pays Gavin's salary, so that he can focus on developing the Bitcoin protocol.

How much protocol development has happened in the last year?

[Atruk]

I don’t think it’s either practical nor feasible nor even desirable to use Bitcoin in the day to day dabble of pizzas, phone credits, hairspray and sneakers. People try to, because of the misguided belief that Bitcoin value is somehow related to or deriving from its crossection in the retail market.

2)  A single developer (Gavin) being able to screw up a software update and causing a fork that destroys a 10+ billion dollar business is not an option.  See #1.  People will want to minimize their possible risks to 10-20% loss for attacks or things like this happening.

3)  Demand for anonymous transactions vs open transactions.

4)  Practical hardware/space limitations of a single chain that has already been discussed.

5)  The usage of PoS as a virtual bank.

6)  How easy it is for a government to co-opt, attack, or take over a single chain.  It's much harder to take over or destroy 10 at once.  My estimate is, there will be 5-10 large coins.

7)  Dozens more that I don't feel like typing.

Gavin hasn't been Bitcoin's best friend in quite some time and even nao the development accomplishments haven't been much.

[r0ach]

How much protocol development has happened in the last year?

How anxious are you to be the sole person to get blamed for breaking a $10+ billion dollar industry?  Probably wants to outsource some responsibility to other people first so it's at least a team effort if they manage to screw it up.  They're at a stage where they have to make permanent choices that will decide the entire future of the currency and if it fails or succeeds.  Things like the whole 7 vs 80-100TPS deal, and huge block chains with high centralization and high transactions vs lower centralization and crap volume.  The guy doesn't seem like a rock star, anarchist programmer, with the idea of "fuck the entire world, I'm doing it my way".

There has to be at least 3-4 more high profile people from several other different countries like China, Germany, Japan, Finland, etc, involved and taking responsibility before anything big happens.

What do you think this article actually means?  It doesn't mean what Coindesk wrote, it means he's scared to be responsible for something that might decide the fate of the entire planet lol.

http://www.coindesk.com/gavin-andresen-bitcoin-companies-support-open-source/

[hammo]

Just start a new one.  Call yourselves "the official foundation", register a domain and go.

Or what about the 'Bitcoin Founding Foundation' or BFF for short 

[justusranvier]

What do you think this article actually means?  It doesn't mean what Coindesk wrote, it means he's scared to be responsible for something that might decide the fate of the entire planet lol.

http://www.coindesk.com/gavin-andresen-bitcoin-companies-support-open-source/

So more Bitcoin companies should be involved in development? It's funny that Conformal Systems did exactly that, and gets no recognition from Gavin or any of the other core developers for their contributions.

Unlike BitPay which made a big deal of supporting the community via Jeff Garzik's 2000 LOC, Conformal put the development of their actual business on hold for a year while they wrote a clean slate reimplementation of the reference implementation as an open source donation to the community.

Fortunately, they're about done with that so now they can focus on their Coinvoice service. I say fortunately because that means they've had time to help out two local merchants in Austin that got burned by BitPay. (Do you know how embarrassing it is to go around to local merchants convincing them to start accepting Bitcoin and pointing them at the most well-known Bitcoin payment processor just to have them run into existential problems like "not getting paid?")

[yamamushi]

Fortunately, they're about done with that so now they can focus on their Coinvoice service. I say fortunately because that means they've had time to help out two local merchants in Austin that got burned by BitPay. (Do you know how embarrassing it is to go around to local merchants convincing them to start accepting Bitcoin and pointing them at the most well-known Bitcoin payment processor just to have them run into existential problems like "not getting paid?")

Considering one of them was a licensed firearms dealer, and in order to buy weapons through them you have to go through an FBI background check, it was extremely frustrating that BitPay or Coinbase wouldn't work with them.

[AnonyMint]

And I doubt Gavin has enough power to hard fork even if he wanted to.

He easily does.  Same thing with Sunny King and proof of stake.

But he (personally) doesn't (without great risk) in the overall (holistic) political game theory. You are thinking too-inside-the-box.

[5flags]

Yeah, what a scam to take peoples membership money and use it to organize conferences, lobby regulators, provide a resource for business and the press, to provide a space to coordinate the volunteer efforts of dozens of people who actually do something. Wow such scam! Only a doggy based coin could save us now.  

+21 million

Agree. This thread is a ridiculous criticism, obviously made by someone with no understanding that Bitcoin is NOT an island. It interfaces in very real ways with centralised, legacy systems - and we need an organised, dedicated focal point.

This doesn't mean the foundation is beyond criticism, but let's not throw the baby out with the bath water.

[tayfun73]

Yeah, what a scam to take peoples membership money and use it to organize conferences, lobby regulators, provide a resource for business and the press, to provide a space to coordinate the volunteer efforts of dozens of people who actually do something. Wow such scam! Only a doggy based coin could save us now.  

+21 million

Agree. This thread is a ridiculous criticism, obviously made by someone with no understanding that Bitcoin is NOT an island. It interfaces in very real ways with centralised, legacy systems - and we need an organised, dedicated focal point.

This doesn't mean the foundation is beyond criticism, but let's not throw the baby out with the bath water.

Agreed, we do need an organised and dedicated group of people who represent the community. However, who voted these guys in? What input did the bitcoin community as a whole have in the establishment of the foundation, yet alone electing who would be on there? I guess having such shrewd businessman and solid citizens as Mark Karpeles on the board made them think they didn't need that input.

It would be interesting to weigh up the good that the foundation has done compared to the damage that they have done to the brand. It wasn't until the knife was well and truly to the bone that they got rid of Gox and Karpeles. I do not believe for one minute that they were suddenly 'surprised' by what happened over in Tokyo.

[5flags]

Agreed, we do need an organised and dedicated group of people who represent the community. However, who voted these guys in? What input did the bitcoin community as a whole have in the establishment of the foundation, yet alone electing who would be on there? I guess having such shrewd businessman and solid citizens as Mark Karpeles on the board made them think they didn't need that input.

It would be interesting to weigh up the good that the foundation has done compared to the damage that they have done to the brand. It wasn't until the knife was well and truly to the bone that they got rid of Gox and Karpeles. I do not believe for one minute that they were suddenly 'surprised' by what happened over in Tokyo.

Yea, all valid points. Like I say, they aren't beyond criticism. Like it or not, Bitcoin, by its very nature attracts the kind of person with an affinity for risk. Criminals and entrepreneurs share this affinity. And as we've seen, the line between entrepreneur and criminal is blurry, to say the least.

It's important to remember that TBF does not own Bitcoin. Their activities are what THEY think are in Bitcoin's best interest. We don't have to agree, or take any notice. But there's nothing stopping anyone setting up another lobbying group.

[tayfun73]

Agreed, we do need an organised and dedicated group of people who represent the community. However, who voted these guys in? What input did the bitcoin community as a whole have in the establishment of the foundation, yet alone electing who would be on there? I guess having such shrewd businessman and solid citizens as Mark Karpeles on the board made them think they didn't need that input.

It would be interesting to weigh up the good that the foundation has done compared to the damage that they have done to the brand. It wasn't until the knife was well and truly to the bone that they got rid of Gox and Karpeles. I do not believe for one minute that they were suddenly 'surprised' by what happened over in Tokyo.

Yea, all valid points. Like I say, they aren't beyond criticism. Like it or not, Bitcoin, by its very nature attracts the kind of person with an affinity for risk. Criminals and entrepreneurs share this affinity. And as we've seen, the line between entrepreneur and criminal is blurry, to say the least.

It's important to remember that TBF does not own Bitcoin. Their activities are what THEY think are in Bitcoin's best interest. We don't have to agree, or take any notice. But there's nothing stopping anyone setting up another lobbying group.

Fair enough, they do not own bitcoin, we can set up a rival group etc etc, but I read earlier that they pay Gavin's salary as the lead dev for the bitcoin project. Noone will deny that he deserves to get paid and does a top job, but it's a bit worrying when you have a foundation which has very little confidence put in it by the community being Gavin's 'boss', and have the fate of the currency at their mercy.

[5flags]

Fair enough, they do not own bitcoin, we can set up a rival group etc etc, but I read earlier that they pay Gavin's salary as the lead dev for the bitcoin project. Noone will deny that he deserves to get paid and does a top job, but it's a bit worrying when you have a foundation which has very little confidence put in it by the community being Gavin's 'boss', and have the fate of the currency at their mercy.

One day, I hope Gavin earns enough to buy a small island in the South Pacific where he can live out his days with 12 young wives serving him mojitos on the beach. His stewardship of Bitcoin has been exemplary.

There would be nothing stopping a "rival" foundation "outbidding" to pay Gavin. Or even paying him in addition to his TBF income.

[cosmofly]

i always disagree with MP , but i admit he is 100% spot on about the foundation. They have to be shut down , they must be shutdown. They have stolen hundreds of thousands worth of bitcoins and DID NOTHING for the community, yes they are pocketing it all. They did NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING.

The development is a complete joke and bitcoin is in grave danger due to the lack of active development. No marketing, no promotion, no government lobbying, nothing, all they do is get paid more money to attend conferences and visits to the CIA.

We need to shut them down immediately.

[The_Duke]

In September 2012, as a response to the BF Announcement I already posted:

So the bitcoin foundation (which had nothing to do with founding bitcoin and created itself without involvement from the bitcoin community or its creator) gets a start as some incredibly overhyped Announcement (yeah, with a capital A apparently).
THIS is that big announcement that would bring more stability to bitcoin? A self proclaimed "bitcoin foundation" that on its own decides how to best help bitcoin?
To me, this just looks like a lot of e-peening by a bunch of people who on their own have become too invested in bitcoin and who are in effect decentralizing it by pulling to much attention and too much involvement onto themselves, thereby hindering the openness and freedom of bitcoin.
Why does something that is supposed to be uncontrolled and decentralized need a centralized body to control anything? What if the Bitcoin Foundation starts doing or saying things that a lot of bitcoin users feel is harmful to bitcoin? Can we replace the people in bitcoin foundation?

It will give the "outside world" (filled with evil bankers, corporations and goverments) a centralized point from which to influence bitcoin. (And whoever thinks they will influence it in a direction that is good for bitcoin is just being naive) They can now just talk to THE "Bitcoin Foundation", which happens to also include the major developers, the ones controlling the trademarks, etc.
Under the flag of "not for profit" bitcoin seems to get commercialized. :sad:

Turns out it's all even worse than I suspected back then. But at least my mistrust was justified.

[MPOE-PR]

Watching*

(*) which I feel at liberty to do being one of the VERY early people to call the Bitcoin Foundation out when fuckin near everyone else was all ga-ga over it...

This would be true.

He easily does.  Same thing with Sunny King and proof of stake.  Since not even the developer himself really seems to understand how proof of stake works, and all the secondary or unintended consequences of each variable, few people have the authority to create a consensus to stop something if he wants it to happen.  Bitcoin is the same way.  It's easier to understand the general concepts of PoW, but there's still secondary or unintended consequences that make the "authority figures" divisible by a handful, or maybe even 1, especially when each change has to conform to future plans that aren't even known by all parties.

Listen nooblet, stop positing that if you've eaten cereal in the morning three times this past week this is "what's done in the morning". Some people fuck in the morning. For instance, your parents, which is how a cereal eating snotty brat like you even exists in the first place.

So more Bitcoin companies should be involved in development? It's funny that Conformal Systems did exactly that, and gets no recognition from Gavin or any of the other core developers for their contributions.

This. Gavin used to be respectable. Not so much anymore.

Back when Gavin used to be respectable, Gavin used to wield a lot of power re the -qt client, and people used to like...even download the newer versions. That time is well past. The overall impact on the Bitcoin network of a new delivery of bitcoin-qt code is roughly nil. You gotta understand that Bitcoin = the Bitcoins, if you get a lot of adoption from people who have together half a Bitcoin you've really got no adoption worth the mention.

[AnonyMint]

So you've just argued TBF has no effective power, so then why give a fuck what they do?

I think you've just argued that no one can control Bitcoin right now and thus there is no way to make any more hard forks.

[raskul]

So you've just argued TBF has no effective power, so then why give a fuck what they do?

I think you've just argued that no one can control Bitcoin right now and thus there is no way to make any more hard forks.

I have to say, i'm with you on that one. I couldn't give a flying fork what the bitcoin foundation do, they don't speak for me, nor will any members club who evolve in the future democratically elected, or not. Good riddance if they fade into obscurity, and if they don't, it makes not a blind bit of difference to me.

[5flags]

This. Gavin used to be respectable. Not so much anymore.

That whole article is a childish and petulant rant.

[MPOE-PR]

Fortunately, they're about done with that so now they can focus on their Coinvoice service. I say fortunately because that means they've had time to help out two local merchants in Austin that got burned by BitPay. (Do you know how embarrassing it is to go around to local merchants convincing them to start accepting Bitcoin and pointing them at the most well-known Bitcoin payment processor just to have them run into existential problems like "not getting paid?")

A lot more documentation is needed re this. Please share.

So you've just argued TBF has no effective power, so then why give a fuck what they do?

I think you've just argued that no one can control Bitcoin right now and thus there is no way to make any more hard forks.

I have to say, i'm with you on that one. I couldn't give a flying fork what the bitcoin foundation do, they don't speak for me, nor will any members club who evolve in the future democratically elected, or not. Good riddance if they fade into obscurity, and if they don't, it makes not a blind bit of difference to me.

A fraud is a fraud is a fraud. You may be new here, don't know who I am, what I do, how Bitcoin works etc.

This doesn't mean anything changes, it just means you need to stfu.

That whole article is a childish and petulant rant.

[raskul]

A fraud is a fraud is a fraud. You may be new here, don't know who I am, what I do, how Bitcoin works etc.

This doesn't mean anything changes, it just means you need to stfu.

PMT dear?

[AnonyMint]

So you've just argued TBF has no effective power, so then why give a fuck what they do?

I think you've just argued that no one can control Bitcoin right now and thus there is no way to make any more hard forks.

I have to say, i'm with you on that one. I couldn't give a flying fork what the bitcoin foundation do, they don't speak for me, nor will any members club who evolve in the future democratically elected, or not. Good riddance if they fade into obscurity, and if they don't, it makes not a blind bit of difference to me.

A fraud is a fraud is a fraud. You may be new here, don't know who I am, what I do, how Bitcoin works etc.

This doesn't mean anything changes, it just means you need to stfu.

Am I mistaken or you the person who private messaged me in Spring of 2013 and tried to get me involved in some action? Aren't/weren't you running some kind Bitcoin options pool business? I had a warning from rpietila about you? Or am I confusing you with someone else? Apologies in advance if my vague memory is incorrect.

[justusranvier]

Fortunately, they're about done with that so now they can focus on their Coinvoice service. I say fortunately because that means they've had time to help out two local merchants in Austin that got burned by BitPay. (Do you know how embarrassing it is to go around to local merchants convincing them to start accepting Bitcoin and pointing them at the most well-known Bitcoin payment processor just to have them run into existential problems like "not getting paid?")

A lot more documentation is needed re this. Please share.

http://centraltexasgunworks.com/latest-news/bitcoin

A week after this press release went out, Central Texas Gun Works got dropped by BitPay and had to fight to get even the money they were owed released.

Their are now up and running on CoinVoice.

http://techzette.com/businesses-accepting-bitcoin-in-austin-texas/

La Canasta Market started to have problems not getting paid for some of their sales. Apparently a customer was using a Coinbase wallet and the transaction was not being broadcast before the 15 minute timer expired.

BitPay has some kind of procedure for the merchant to manually accept those payments, but it wasn't working and they weren't able to help him, blaming a snowstorm on the support delay.

A member of the local Meetup group, the one who first convinced the owner to accept Bitcoin in the first place, reimbursed him out of pocket. They'll be running on CoinVoice shortly as well.

[AnonyMint]

You can reload the Bitpay page that says expired later then it will show it was paid.

[Feri22]

Alt coins are and will remain a play thing. These are decided by the people who matter, and the people who matter aren't either the derps vying for the spotlight "doing" altcoins nor the derps vying for the spotlight "doing" foundations, conferences, articles and assorted bullshit.

Ripple is the best alt-coin right now since it's based on other assets than itself (the users add the intrinsic value).

No it's not...

[justusranvier]

You can reload the Bitpay page that says expired later then it will show it was paid.

The issue here is that you've got a grocery store owner who doesn't know anything about Bitcoin, except that he was told it would make his life easier, who's not a computer geek and isn't even completely fluent in English, discovering that he wasn't getting payed for every sale and BitPay couldn't tell him what was happening and how to fix it.

That's how you snatch defeat from the jaws of victory and poison the merchant adoption well.

[AnonyMint]

No argument from me on that. I complained in the forum previously about how brain-dead Bitpay is on that issue.

[MPOE-PR]

PMT dear?

Just approximate quoting.

http://centraltexasgunworks.com/latest-news/bitcoin

A week after this press release went out, Central Texas Gun Works got dropped by BitPay and had to fight to get even the money they were owed released.

Their are now up and running on CoinVoice.

http://techzette.com/businesses-accepting-bitcoin-in-austin-texas/

La Canasta Market started to have problems not getting paid for some of their sales. Apparently a customer was using a Coinbase wallet and the transaction was not being broadcast before the 15 minute timer expired.

BitPay has some kind of procedure for the merchant to manually accept those payments, but it wasn't working and they weren't able to help him, blaming a snowstorm on the support delay.

A member of the local Meetup group, the one who first convinced the owner to accept Bitcoin in the first place, reimbursed him out of pocket. They'll be running on CoinVoice shortly as well.

Good to know.

snatch defeat from the jaws of victory

God I love that expression.

Am I mistaken or you the person who private messaged me in Spring of 2013 and tried to get me involved in some action? Aren't/weren't you running some kind Bitcoin options pool business? I had a warning from rpietila about you? Or am I confusing you with someone else? Apologies in advance if my vague memory is incorrect.

If you're the sort of guy getting warnings from the uppity tortilla, I would suspect anything could have happened. Well..."happened".

[r0ach]

He easily does.  Same thing with Sunny King and proof of stake.  Since not even the developer himself really seems to understand how proof of stake works, and all the secondary or unintended consequences of each variable, few people have the authority to create a consensus to stop something if he wants it to happen.  Bitcoin is the same way.  It's easier to understand the general concepts of PoW, but there's still secondary or unintended consequences that make the "authority figures" divisible by a handful, or maybe even 1, especially when each change has to conform to future plans that aren't even known by all parties.

Listen nooblet, stop positing that if you've eaten cereal in the morning three times this past week this is "what's done in the morning". Some people fuck in the morning. For instance, your parents, which is how a cereal eating snotty brat like you even exists in the first place.

Is there any post that you don't sound like an angry psychopath?  Someone might mistake you for Anonymint, since you're both angry egomaniacs, but there's at least some substance in what he posts.  Ok, we get it, some fool at the Bitcoin foundation pocketed some money, just like the premine scammers in the altcoin forum.  Where do you and your unpaved road in Romania come into this picture again?  You're feigning moral outrage while basically being a complete dirt bag yourself.  

There's only one person that actually matters at that foundation.  He's going to do whatever his own free will is regardless of yours, and you'll be his hostage for the foreseeable future until Bitcoin is done being forked.  You can stop pretending like you have any power over the situation.  Since you're so morally outraged, I guess the only option would be to divorce yourself from Bitcoin entirely, then you can go on living a pious lifestyle as a normal Romanian school girl/boy/thing.

The rest of us will go on realizing this isn't a democracy.

[MPOE-PR]

derp

Yes, the forum is full of MPOE-PR wanna-bes. So what of it?

Old news anyway, MP said this was going to happen cca 2012.

[cosmofly]

I think its time for action i had enough, enough is enough. The foundation must be destroyed.

IF we for example setup a new bitcoin superfund, MP can possibly head this fund which will result in the creation of a new foundation with core values such as :

- rapid and ongoing bitcoin software development
- Focus on marketing and promotion of bitcoin
- Lobbying Governments
- Providing educational services for the public & business
- Transparency (financial accounts must be audited)

Would the community support such an idea/ would MP like to head such an initiative? (atleast until we can vote in a learship board ?)


i think it's time for action and would love to come together as a community.

[oda.krell]

The foundation is here to stay, as long as no substantial number of miners, users and investors have an aversion to them big enough to force them to disband. Deal with it.

As to why that is the case... well, let's just say, after reading that psychopathic, textbook Dunning–Kruger drivel by OP, I suddenly feel almost grateful for the contributions by the (mostly bland) people that seem to populate the foundation forum.

Mouthfoam away, OP.

[MPOE-PR]

I think its time for action i had enough, enough is enough. The foundation must be destroyed.

IF we for example setup a new bitcoin superfund, MP can possibly head this fund which will result in the creation of a new foundation with core values such as :

- rapid and ongoing bitcoin software development
- Focus on marketing and promotion of bitcoin
- Lobbying Governments
- Providing educational services for the public & business
- Transparency (financial accounts must be audited)

Would the community support such an idea/ would MP like to head such an initiative? (atleast until we can vote in a learship board ?)


i think it's time for action and would love to come together as a community.

The only worthwhile goal at the present time is specifying the bloody protocol already. Something that's been on the table for a long, long time, something the intellectually inept "Power Rangers" carefully avoided, under a plethora of excuses which all boil down to "we're too stupid to do it". Which is true, they are.

Time for some people with actual brains to get involved.

[desired_username]

Time for some people with actual brains to get involved.

Then why don't you show how it should be done instead of creating this useless thread and arrogant posts?

would MP like to head such an initiative? (atleast until we can vote in a learship board ?)

Your attitude is appalling. Your post history (including the ones in this thread) shows lack of professionalism.

The last thing anyone would want is an arrogant romanian exchange owner and his sockpuppets "representing" bitcoin in any form.

[raskul]

Time for some people with actual brains to get involved.

Then why don't you show how it should be done instead of creating this useless thread and arrogant posts?

the biggest mistake PR people make, invariably, is that they own up to being PR. 

[AnonyMint]

Is there any post that you don't sound like an angry psychopath?  Someone might mistake you for Anonymint, since you're both angry egomaniacs, but there's at least some substance in what he posts.

Hey I took the sociopath test.

Egomaniac
A person whose ego exceeds both his intelligence and his capacity to see beyond his own personal interests.

The jury is still out on whether my capacity exceeds my statements and revelations thus far. I love when people underestimate me.

Rather I think what is going on is the hurt ego of others projecting onto my (nearly) always logically correct statements. Humbleness is admired and actions speak louder than words. But it seems it stirs up a hornets' nest to post unorthodox revelations. So one must expect to be labeled an egomaniac for telling a large group they are myopic. It is presumed it can't be true that one person would see so many things that a large group does not. I am actually surprised by it too, but now am coming to realize this is the normal state of affairs of life.

[MPOE-PR]

derp

You probably should spend more time reading MP. You basically just sound like a less clever/less well read/more copy-pasta version of him.

[justusranvier]

I haven't seen anyone point out that the Bitcoin Foundation pays Gavin's salary, so that he can focus on developing the Bitcoin protocol.

How much protocol development has happened in the last year?

Nobody ever did have an answer to this question, did they?

[Peter Lambert]

I haven't seen anyone point out that the Bitcoin Foundation pays Gavin's salary, so that he can focus on developing the Bitcoin protocol.

How much protocol development has happened in the last year?

Nobody ever did have an answer to this question, did they?

You want protocol development, go work on it yourself, you selfish bastard. This is an open source project, contribute yourself. Why do you think you get to dictate what sort of work the Almighty Bitcoin Foundation does. /TBF

[cointoss]

Well, you guys know people with Bitcoins, right? Pay some hackers to expose them.   

[Hippie Tech]

I haven't seen anyone point out that the Bitcoin Foundation pays Gavin's salary, so that he can focus on developing the Bitcoin protocol.

How much protocol development has happened in the last year?

Nobody ever did have an answer to this question, did they?

Gavin was probably too busy counting the BTC he easymined, after that Avalon was dropped in his lap.

60+ ghash + 3M BTC diff =

[justusranvier]

You want protocol development, go work on it yourself, you selfish bastard. This is an open source project, contribute yourself.

I've have been for nearly a year now, or rather I've been directly supporting someone who is working on it.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=93606.msg2325555#msg2325555

Why do you think you get to dictate what sort of work the Almighty Bitcoin Foundation does.

Provide a direct quote where I did that or GTFO.

I never demanded that anyone do anything. All I've done is ask for the people defending the foundation by saying "the foundation pays Gavin so he can work on protocol development" provide some evidence to back up their claims.

All I've received in return to these queries is diversions and verbal abuse.

[Peter Lambert]

You want protocol development, go work on it yourself, you selfish bastard. This is an open source project, contribute yourself.

I've have been for nearly a year now, or rather I've been directly supporting someone who is working on it.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=93606.msg2325555#msg2325555

Why do you think you get to dictate what sort of work the Almighty Bitcoin Foundation does.

Provide a direct quote where I did that or GTFO.

I never demanded that anyone do anything. All I've done is ask for the people defending the foundation by saying "the foundation pays Gavin so he can work on protocol development" provide some evidence to back up their claims.

All I've received in return to these queries is diversions and verbal abuse.

You missed the sarcasm mark at the end of my post ... I quite agree with what you wrote.

[justusranvier]

You missed the sarcasm mark at the end of my post ... I quite agree with what you wrote.

Sorry about that. In that case consider my reply as directed, not at you, but at the people who wouldn't have been sarcastic.

[bg002h]

I must admit.
I have never heard of this Bitcoin Foundation before this post.

What is it that they do exactly?

Have a look. The OP isn't well respected, so take no notice.

https://bitcoinfoundation.org/forum/index.php?/topic/752-the-good-and-useful-things-the-foundation-has-done-for-us-members-compiled-by-dr-brian-goss/

Nice try, sidestepping the actual issues (such as you know, accounting fraud, tortious misrepresentation and quite possibly false pretenses, quite definitely embezzlement and a myriad other civil and criminal violations) by failful personal attacks (nobody heard of you, I'm easily on any list of respectable voices on this forum, buzz off) and a laundry list of...nonsense. Conferences don't count, and there's literally nothing else on that list.

Now go tell your puppet masters that a) you failed miserably and b) they'll need much much better damage control. Ideally, they'll need some lawyers. Preferably someone with an actual clue (which excludes Murck, he's the ninny that got them in their present muck).

Oh, and since two can play that game, "Dr." Brian Goss (a freshly failed medical student in Chicago interviewing for residency training in radiology): here's your old page, from back when you were pushing the mywallet scam...

For the noobs, mywallet was one of the first huge BTC thefts from a "hack"



Wow...

Lol...you must be new. I wrote an iPhone app called mybitcoin...and I'm in my final year of residency

[bg002h]

I think its time for action i had enough, enough is enough. The foundation must be destroyed.

IF we for example setup a new bitcoin superfund, MP can possibly head this fund which will result in the creation of a new foundation with core values such as :

- rapid and ongoing bitcoin software development
- Focus on marketing and promotion of bitcoin
- Lobbying Governments
- Providing educational services for the public & business
- Transparency (financial accounts must be audited)

Would the community support such an idea/ would MP like to head such an initiative? (atleast until we can vote in a learship board ?)


i think it's time for action and would love to come together as a community.

Destroyed? Seems a little harsh

That said, nobody has a patent on organizing people to pool resources around a common interest. Similarly, the Bitcoin Foundation has no monopoly. My belief is that the more groups pooling resources to help _all_ aspects of the community become stronger is a good thing. To state that the Foundation doesn't represent everyone or every interest is to state the obvious.

The more we band together (be it here or elsewhere) the stronger we can make Bitcoin. 

[RodeoX]

I think its time for action i had enough, enough is enough. The foundation must be destroyed.

IF we for example setup a new bitcoin superfund, MP can possibly head this fund which will result in the creation of a new foundation with core values such as :

- rapid and ongoing bitcoin software development
- Focus on marketing and promotion of bitcoin
- Lobbying Governments
- Providing educational services for the public & business
- Transparency (financial accounts must be audited)

Would the community support such an idea/ would MP like to head such an initiative? (atleast until we can vote in a learship board ?)


i think it's time for action and would love to come together as a community.

I also think you should do this. The BF is an organization supporting the spread of bitcoin. it is not the organization.
You will be doing mostly the same thing that the BF does, except for "rapid bitcoin software development". I suppose that means you are also starting another client project, or a fork to another coin?
Your team will need:
-Lawyers
-Experienced professional lobbyists
-Business professionals (min. MBA +5 years as CEO or owner)
-Professional educators / presenters / curriculum writers 
-Professional auditors and tax preparers who understand crypto
-If you are writing code then programmers / project managers / a beta team / etc.?

It will be a lot of work and cost a lot of money, but so does anything good. I say do it!

P.S. This is not going to destroy the BF.

[bg002h]

I think anything anyone can do to help strengthen a group of dedicated Bitcoin users is a good thing.

There is nothing to gain by tearing people down (falsely at least!) or inventing reasons to hate stuff. It's far better if we support new initiatives and defend their right to exist.

[Lauda]

Gavin was probably too busy counting the BTC he easymined, after that Avalon was dropped in his lap.

60+ ghash + 3M BTC diff =

About 6000$ a day.

[MPOE-PR]

You want protocol development, go work on it yourself, you selfish bastard. This is an open source project, contribute yourself.

I've have been for nearly a year now, or rather I've been directly supporting someone who is working on it.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=93606.msg2325555#msg2325555

Why do you think you get to dictate what sort of work the Almighty Bitcoin Foundation does.

Provide a direct quote where I did that or GTFO.

I never demanded that anyone do anything. All I've done is ask for the people defending the foundation by saying "the foundation pays Gavin so he can work on protocol development" provide some evidence to back up their claims.

All I've received in return to these queries is diversions and verbal abuse.

I think he was ironically recounting the "discussion" forum fucktards presented the last time the topic of bitcoin devs being retarded came up.

You know, the same forum fucktards that are the reason why Bitcoin finance makes baby steps. Well...same. Different bodies, same brain.

Lol...you must be new. I wrote an iPhone app called mybitcoin...and I'm in my final year of residency

It's not as much that "I'm new", shillyboy. It's that you're stupid.

Now re-read my post with your reading comprehension hat on.

Then perhaps go exchange notes with the legion of other numerous shills that thought it a good idea to herp at me, historically. Hint: it didn't work out for them.

Stay in school.

The more we band together (be it here or elsewhere) the stronger we can make Bitcoin

The more your ilk bands together, the shittier anything around you becomes.

Ideally you'll soon find some altcoin or something like all other idiots.

[bg002h]

You want protocol development, go work on it yourself, you selfish bastard. This is an open source project, contribute yourself.

I've have been for nearly a year now, or rather I've been directly supporting someone who is working on it.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=93606.msg2325555#msg2325555

Why do you think you get to dictate what sort of work the Almighty Bitcoin Foundation does.

Provide a direct quote where I did that or GTFO.

I never demanded that anyone do anything. All I've done is ask for the people defending the foundation by saying "the foundation pays Gavin so he can work on protocol development" provide some evidence to back up their claims.

All I've received in return to these queries is diversions and verbal abuse.

I think he was ironically recounting the "discussion" forum fucktards presented last time, the first time the topic of bitcoin devs being retarded came up.

You know, the same forum fucktards that are the reason why Bitcoin finance makes baby steps. Well...same. Different bodies, same brain.

Lol...you must be new. I wrote an iPhone app called mybitcoin...and I'm in my final year of residency

It's not as much that "I'm new", shillyboy. It's that you're stupid.

Now re-read my post with your reading comprehension hat on.

Then perhaps go exchange notes with the legion of other numerous shills that thought it a good idea to herp at me, historically. Hint: it didn't work out for them.

Stay in school.

The more we band together (be it here or elsewhere) the stronger we can make Bitcoin

The more your ilk bands together, the shittier anything around you becomes.

Ideally you'll soon find some altcoin or something like all other idiots.

You have a strange way of linking assumptions together. But if you are seriously interested in getting to know me (I'm not anonymous), give me a call.

[MPOE-PR]

You have a strange way of linking assumptions together. But if you are seriously interested in getting to know me (I'm not anonymous), give me a call.

Yeah dude, you're so rare and valuable that I'm going to be giving you calls. I rarely get to meet any geeky boys in college otherwise.

They must be putting something in your water, seriously now.

[Mike@Coinswag]

Just start a new one.  Call yourselves "the official foundation", register a domain and go.

I thought the same thing, and yesterday I posted this: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=498644.msg5487692#msg5487692

[bg002h]

You have a strange way of linking assumptions together. But if you are seriously interested in getting to know me (I'm not anonymous), give me a call.

Yeah dude, you're so rare and valuable that I'm going to be giving you calls. I rarely get to meet any geeky boys in college otherwise.

They must be putting something in your water, seriously now.

Aren't you a guy with a female avatar? That discussion was a long time ago and I think when I first put you on ignore.

[Mike@Coinswag]

I am looking for like-minded individuals to help form a new foundation, one that has emphasis on growing adoption in local communities while maintaining a broad link to macro policies.

If you think you would like to be a part of such an organiation, read this:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=498644.msg5487692#msg5487692


Edit: I have reserved the domains localbitcoinfoundation.org and .com

[bg002h]

Undoing the ignore long enough to skim this post was just not a wise move on my part...

There's no need to unblock MPOE unless he departs from the usual stupid drivel, which is never. I wouldn't be surprised if his character assassinations were red herrings, some drama to draw attention away from his own questionable business.

Twas my mistake indeed. I hope he's not taking advantage of too many newbies.

[eldentyrell]

Ripple is the best alt-coin right now since it's based on other assets than itself (the users add the intrinsic value).

Kinda like how the US dollar is based on other assets than itself (the Fed adds the intrinsic value)?

Ripple is a scam.

[eldentyrell]

Do we as a community not need gavin?

We as a community do not need any one individual.

[eldentyrell]

What do you think this article actually means?  It doesn't mean what Coindesk wrote, it means he's scared to be responsible for something that might decide the fate of the entire planet lol.

http://www.coindesk.com/gavin-andresen-bitcoin-companies-support-open-source/

So more Bitcoin companies should be involved in development? It's funny that Conformal Systems did exactly that, and gets no recognition from Gavin or any of the other core developers for their contributions.

Unlike BitPay which made a big deal of supporting the community via Jeff Garzik's 2000 LOC, Conformal put the development of their actual business on hold for a year while they wrote a clean slate reimplementation of the reference implementation as an open source donation to the community.

Justus,

I agree with you in spirit, but you should be a bit more up-front about the fact that Conformal's bitcoind implementation is written in the "Go" language.

There's nothing wrong with that, but there also isn't much demand outside of Conformal for a bitcoin client written in Go.  If one of their major motivations was to contribute to the bitcoin community they would have chosen a language that more bitcoiners know and therefore can contribute in.  In other words, their contribution is primarily to the Go community here, not the bitcoin community.  That's okay.

FWIW, I write my "serious" code in Coq, which is a hell of a lot more obscure than Go… glass houses, stones, etc.

[JusticeForYou]

You're still hot. Funny how that works on the internets.


Never joined the foundation. Said I would when they offer a Substantial Scholarship to an accredited school tho...

I wouldn't go so far as calling it a 'scam.'

Paying to join the local golf club usually just ends up with you paying for tee times at a reduced rate.

[tvbcof]

You're still hot. Funny how that works on the internets.
...

Funny thing about Bitcoiners and Fox News watchers is that they both seem to have a thing for trannies.  The latter were all hot and bothered for Ann 'the man' Coulter back in the day.  Go figure.

[JusticeForYou]

You're still hot. Funny how that works on the internets.
...

Funny thing about Bitcoiners and Fox News watchers is that they both seem to have a thing for trannies.  The latter were all hot and bothered for Ann 'the man' Coulter back in the day.  Go figure.

LOL, What's FaceBooks gender count now? 50+  

I see no gender on the inter webs. So she's hot.



Edit: Except that randy guy, dude change your avatar.

[QuestionAuthority]

You're still hot. Funny how that works on the internets.
...

Funny thing about Bitcoiners and Fox News watchers is that they both seem to have a thing for trannies.  The latter were all hot and bothered for Ann 'the man' Coulter back in the day.  Go figure.

Chicks with Dicks + Bitcoin!

It's like Peanut Butter and Jelly baby. LOL

[tayfun73]

Some interesting reading here >  http://two-bit-idiot.tumblr.com/post/78609330103/the-btc-foundations-power-struggle

[tvbcof]

Some interesting reading here >  http://two-bit-idiot.tumblr.com/post/78609330103/the-btc-foundations-power-struggle

Well fuck-o-rolan, how many times is ~vess going to 'step down'?  IIRC he 'stepped down' a year ago during the Coinlab/Mt.Gox fiasco.  Down from 'executive director' to 'chairman of the board.'

Looks to me like ~vess IS the Bitcoin Foundation.  He was there from day one and I expect he'll be there until the end.  I also don't expect him to cough up the $5M in Gox funds that Coinlab appropriated so Mt. Gox creditors will probably be eating that to.  And I certainly don't expect that he/tBF is going to give Mt Gox back the 5000 BTC they put in to get the Bitcoin Foundation started.  OTOH, it would be good PR so if tBF has got money coming out their ears, or if ~vess stands to lose the $5M to the Feds anyway, maybe the Gox victims will see a little of it.  Not holding my breath for that one though.

[justusranvier]

I agree with you in spirit, but you should be a bit more up-front about the fact that Conformal's bitcoind implementation is written in the "Go" language.

There's nothing wrong with that, but there also isn't much demand outside of Conformal for a bitcoin client written in Go.  If one of their major motivations was to contribute to the bitcoin community they would have chosen a language that more bitcoiners know and therefore can contribute in.  In other words, their contribution is primarily to the Go community here, not the bitcoin community.

You're going to have a hard time convincing me that the Go language is a problem based on the number of non-Go programmers I've heard say, "wow, I can actually understand their code."

Having a codebase that's approachable and well-architected is a great contribution even if nobody else ever writes any Bitcoin code in Go.

Even if that weren't the case, your post implies that the Bitcoin community is the development community. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Btcd gives non-developer users the ability to contribute to the network by running a full node without also requiring them to store m (users) * n (devices) copies of the blockchain. That's huge usability improvement in its own right.

[davec]

Justus,

I agree with you in spirit, but you should be a bit more up-front about the fact that Conformal's bitcoind implementation is written in the "Go" language.

There's nothing wrong with that, but there also isn't much demand outside of Conformal for a bitcoin client written in Go.  If one of their major motivations was to contribute to the bitcoin community they would have chosen a language that more bitcoiners know and therefore can contribute in.  In other words, their contribution is primarily to the Go community here, not the bitcoin community.  That's okay.

FWIW, I write my "serious" code in Coq, which is a hell of a lot more obscure than Go… glass houses, stones, etc.

I can't disagree with you more.  I'll talk about Go here in a moment, but the first thing I want to get out of the way is the fact that many improvements to the architecture made by btcd are now being incorporated back into bitcoind.  So, I'm not sure how you could claim that btcd has not contributed to the Bitcoin community.  That is patently false.  On the contrary, we are quite proud that our contributions have been improving the ecosystem.

For example, the btcd codebase created btcctl as a standalone RPC client, rather than shoving it into the daemon, months ago.  Just now, in the upcoming 0.9.0 release, bitcoind is following suit with bitcoin-cli which incidentally is almost an exact clone of btcctl.

Second, we made a blog post back in the beginning of Oct 2013 about btcd's architecture along with the benefits of separating the wallet from the core daemon (https://blog.conformal.com/btcd-not-your-moms-bitcoin-daemon/).  It would appear that at least some of core bitcoind devs agree as just after our announcement, plans were announced to do the same thing for bitcoind.  If you haven't noticed, recently bitcoind has been working to separate the chain bits via the -disablewallet option.  Once again, that idea is directly from the improvements made to the fundamental architecture by btcd which has already had this functionality for 6 months.

Those are just a couple of examples.  If you spend some time cross referencing the release notes for 0.9.0 with architectural improvements made in btcd, you will find more instances of our contributions influencing bitcoind in a positive way.  This goes both ways.

On the point of Go, it is not at all an obscure language.  It is rapidly rising in popularity as noted on many language popularity tracking sites.  Anyone who is familiar with C/C++ can pick Go extremely quickly.  Interestingly enough, we frequently hear from people that weren't familiar with Go at all say they have a far easier time reading, understanding, and reasoning about the btcd code as compared to the bitcoind code.  I would urge you to take a look for yourself rather than take my (or their) word for it though.


Perhaps most importantly, the modular design of btcd makes it easier for businesses to build services.  For example, if you want to create a transaction script with the bitcoind codebase, you'd probably end up doing what everyone else has done and hand roll them as it's not easy to access only that functionality from the bitcoind code.  On the other hand, creating a script that has canonical encoding which pays to an address (whether it's a pubkey, pubkey hash, or a script hash) with the btcd codebase is as simple as:

import "github.com/conformal/btcscript"
script, err := btcscript.PayToAddrScript(addr)
if err != nil { /* handle it */ }

[moni3z]

I agree with you in spirit, but you should be a bit more up-front about the fact that Conformal's bitcoind implementation is written in the "Go" language.

There's nothing wrong with that, but there also isn't much demand outside of Conformal for a bitcoin client written in Go.  If one of their major motivations was to contribute to the bitcoin community they would have chosen a language that more bitcoiners know and therefore can contribute in.  In other words, their contribution is primarily to the Go community here, not the bitcoin community.

You're going to have a hard time convincing me that the Go language is a problem based on the number of non-Go programmers I've heard say, "wow, I can actually understand their code."

Having a codebase that's approachable and well-architected is a great contribution even if nobody else ever writes any Bitcoin code in Go.

Even if that weren't the case, your post implies that the Bitcoin community is the development community. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Btcd gives non-developer users the ability to contribute to the network by running a full node without also requiring them to store m (users) * n (devices) copies of the blockchain. That's huge usability improvement in its own right.

Go encourages readability, portability and standardization, so I expect there will be a lot of future development with Btcd. I run Btcd testing on GAE for all sorts of backend mobile dev stuff it's awesome. Of course they weren't given any money because the foundation solely exists for a select few Bitcoin corps to collaborate with each other in order to establish a monopoly

[MPOE-PR]

Justus,

I agree with you in spirit, but you should be a bit more up-front about the fact that Conformal's bitcoind implementation is written in the "Go" language.

There's nothing wrong with that, but there also isn't much demand outside of Conformal for a bitcoin client written in Go.  If one of their major motivations was to contribute to the bitcoin community they would have chosen a language that more bitcoiners know and therefore can contribute in.  In other words, their contribution is primarily to the Go community here, not the bitcoin community.  That's okay.

FWIW, I write my "serious" code in Coq, which is a hell of a lot more obscure than Go… glass houses, stones, etc.

This is nonsense, I mean by the same token you've not written this message to the Bitcoin community, since it's written in English.

As long as it's written it's written, let they who don't know the language learn it.

Some interesting reading here >  http://two-bit-idiot.tumblr.com/post/78609330103/the-btc-foundations-power-struggle

Well fuck-o-rolan, how many times is ~vess going to 'step down'?  IIRC he 'stepped down' a year ago during the Coinlab/Mt.Gox fiasco.  Down from 'executive director' to 'chairman of the board.'

Looks to me like ~vess IS the Bitcoin Foundation.  He was there from day one and I expect he'll be there until the end.  I also don't expect him to cough up the $5M in Gox funds that Coinlab appropriated so Mt. Gox creditors will probably be eating that to.  And I certainly don't expect that he/tBF is going to give Mt Gox back the 5000 BTC they put in to get the Bitcoin Foundation started.  OTOH, it would be good PR so if tBF has got money coming out their ears, or if ~vess stands to lose the $5M to the Feds anyway, maybe the Gox victims will see a little of it.  Not holding my breath for that one though.

I find it funny how that Ver sockpuppet (aptly named, btw, he IS a two bit idiot) keeps trying to piggyback the discussion/spindoctor the whole thing.

And by funny I mean disgusting to the point of disbelief.

[cryptodevil]

OP, how about you come to us with a solution instead of a problem?

Fiat finance is populated by assholes in jobs they're not qualified to do effectively, being paid vast amounts by other assholes who are board-members of companies that survive by being told what to do by highly-paid management consultants.

As for crypto-currency, we are legion, but we are fringe and we are fucked without people willing to strap on a tie and speak corporate bullshit to persuade people who are afraid of losing their privileged positions by making decisions from left-field, that they should adopt Bitcoin as a means of payment or trade.

You don't have to like anyone from TBF, but you do have to offer up some sort of alternative solution to how we get boots on the ground in places that aren't simply coffee-shops and groovy online retailers with a liberal bent, if you want anybody to get behind your protestations.

[MPOE-PR]

OP, how about you come to us with a solution instead of a problem?

How about you shut the fuck up and get lost? Twelve post "we" indeed, get a load of that.

[raskul]

OP, how about you come to us with a solution instead of a problem?

because OP has not a clue. Once she gets over her PMT, she may be a bit more polite, but until then....
with all the social skills of a skunk in a perfume factory.

[cryptodevil]

Twelve post "we" indeed, get a load of that.

Oh, and there was me thinking that Bitcoin is meant to be owned by, well, everybody who uses it.

Apparently seniority based on your posting count at this forum is the rule. My bad.

BTW, telling people to just STFU when they raise a valid a point is real fucking mature. Well done OP, a masterful thread, superbly crafted with your reasoned assertions and rebuttals.

[raskul]

You may be new here, don't know who I am, what I do...

delusions of grandeur. 

[DiabolusLoki]

OP, how about you come to us with a solution instead of a problem?

How about you shut the fuck up and get lost? Twelve post "we" indeed, get a load of that.

Change ya tampon already bitch.

[DobZombie]

Whilst I don't agree with the almost autistic way MPOE-PR broaches subjects, I do agree that The Bitcoin Foundation is a sham.

I don't believe it's a scam tho.  I believe it's a way for rich pricks to pat themselves on the back and pretend they are doing good.

Instead of a foundation, why don't we just pay somebody a full time wage to fly all over the world and spruik Bitcoin.  If they had experience in marketing, economics, and a basic knowledge of law.

Shit, I'd donate to something like that.

[zumzero]

OP, how about you come to us with a solution instead of a problem?

How about you shut the fuck up and get lost? Twelve post "we" indeed, get a load of that.

Take your pills and calm down you sociopath.  You are the biggest scammer around.

[marcotheminer]

Im agreeing with you on all your points, scam or at least unethical!

[MPOE-PR]

Oh, and there was me thinking that Bitcoin is meant to be owned by, well, everybody who uses it.

Apparently seniority based on your posting count at this forum is the rule. My bad.

BTW, telling people to just STFU when they raise a valid a point is real fucking mature. Well done OP, a masterful thread, superbly crafted with your reasoned assertions and rebuttals.

Problem is you did not raise any valid points, and from the manner in which you raised those invalid pseudopoints it became apparent there's no practical, cheap, or easy way to correct you. So...what's one to do.

[Dalmar]

+1 for OP

Bitcoin Foundation is full of scum.

I predicted Karpeles being a criminal even before he shut down bitcoin withdrawals on Gox:

Mark Karpeles needs to be kicked off the board, that dirty criminal is no good for the foundation. I expect him to be arrested next.

[MPOE-PR]

Welcome to the forum. MPOE is our most accomplished scumbag, a rumored child pornographer and a confirmed idiot. His business model is exceedingly simple: talk shit about everyone else to avoid scrutiny. Because he has no dignity or good breeding, he basically sells stock in himself, a sadistic, sexually confused Romanian Mafia reject. Anything he says can be disregarded, you won't miss anything valuable.

Whose scammer-I-exposed sock are you?

[(A)social]

OP, how about you come to us with a solution instead of a problem?

Fiat finance is populated by assholes in jobs they're not qualified to do effectively, being paid vast amounts by other assholes who are board-members of companies that survive by being told what to do by highly-paid management consultants.

As for crypto-currency, we are legion, but we are fringe and we are fucked without people willing to strap on a tie and speak corporate bullshit to persuade people who are afraid of losing their privileged positions by making decisions from left-field, that they should adopt Bitcoin as a means of payment or trade.

You don't have to like anyone from TBF, but you do have to offer up some sort of alternative solution to how we get boots on the ground in places that aren't simply coffee-shops and groovy online retailers with a liberal bent, if you want anybody to get behind your protestations.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma

[HCLivess]

Thanks for letting me know. I actually was considering a donation earlier.

[Taras]

hell, i'm still in the denial phase 'what do you mean you sell bitcoins on an exchange???!!!'

decentralise. do it now.

+1+1+1+1+1

[Lauda]

OP, how about you come to us with a solution instead of a problem?

How about you shut the fuck up and get lost? Twelve post "we" indeed, get a load of that.

Take your pills and calm down you sociopath.  You are the biggest scammer around.

You're backing this up on what?

[IIOII]

+1 for OP

Couldn't agree more. TBF has already damaged bitcoins reputation.

It's interesting to see the shift in public opinion. I've strongly criticized TBF since inception but at that time was mostly met with ignorance and arrogance.

I wish to send a big kudos to all straight characters that used their brain and exposed the true nature of TBF from the very beginning.

Disband this mob of usurpers! Long live bitcoin!

[Bit_Happy]

I am looking for like-minded individuals to help form a new foundation, one that has emphasis on growing adoption in local communities while maintaining a broad link to macro policies.

If you think you would like to be a part of such an organiation, read this:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=498644.msg5487692#msg5487692


Edit: I have reserved the domains localbitcoinfoundation.org and .com

Bump for the new group, good work.

[escrow.ms]

OP, how about you come to us with a solution instead of a problem?

How about you shut the fuck up and get lost? Twelve post "we" indeed, get a load of that.

Take your pills and calm down you sociopath.  You are the biggest scammer around.

You're backing this up on what?

Probably this..
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=339544.msg3642934#msg3642934

[Adrian-x]

+1 for the OP

[MPOE-PR]

hell, i'm still in the denial phase 'what do you mean you sell bitcoins on an exchange???!!!'

decentralise. do it now.

+1+1+1+1+1

Actually the majority of Bitcoin trade has happened OTC since forever. In 2011, in 2012, in 2013. That a majority of Bitcoin's periphery (ie, people interested ideally but not invested significantly) don't know about this is neither surprising nor terribly relevant.

[Peter Lambert]

hell, i'm still in the denial phase 'what do you mean you sell bitcoins on an exchange???!!!'

decentralise. do it now.

+1+1+1+1+1

Actually the majority of Bitcoin trade has happened OTC since forever. In 2011, in 2012, in 2013. That a majority of Bitcoin's periphery (ie, people interested ideally but not invested significantly) don't know about this is neither surprising nor terribly relevant.

Out of curiosity, how do you reliably measure the amount of bitcoin exchange going on OTC?

[raskul]

hell, i'm still in the denial phase 'what do you mean you sell bitcoins on an exchange???!!!'

decentralise. do it now.

+1+1+1+1+1

Actually the majority of Bitcoin trade has happened OTC since forever. In 2011, in 2012, in 2013. That a majority of Bitcoin's periphery (ie, people interested ideally but not invested significantly) don't know about this is neither surprising nor terribly relevant.

Out of curiosity, how do you reliably measure the amount of bitcoin exchange going on OTC?

you add it up on your fingers and toes and collate 'the majority', i presume, on account of it being 'obvious' or some other similar mathematical reasoning.  

[Peter Lambert]

hell, i'm still in the denial phase 'what do you mean you sell bitcoins on an exchange???!!!'

decentralise. do it now.

+1+1+1+1+1

Actually the majority of Bitcoin trade has happened OTC since forever. In 2011, in 2012, in 2013. That a majority of Bitcoin's periphery (ie, people interested ideally but not invested significantly) don't know about this is neither surprising nor terribly relevant.

Out of curiosity, how do you reliably measure the amount of bitcoin exchange going on OTC?

you add it up on your fingers and toes and collate 'the majority', i presume, on account of it being 'obvious' or some other similar mathematical reasoning.  

Sorry if it does not seem so obvious to everybody ... what I am asking is if there is a published amount of bitcoins traded OTC, and where is that data published?

[MPOE-PR]

Out of curiosity, how do you reliably measure the amount of bitcoin exchange going on OTC?

Obviously you don't reliably measure it, you're stuck guessing. Otherwise you'd have exact %s.

Depending on how well connected you are that guess is going to be more or less accurate (which is why the guesses of the unconnected are so way off the mark).

[Kouye]

Why would this scam accusation be still bouncing up and down in the wrong sub?

[Bit_Happy]

Why would this scam accusation be still bouncing up and down in the wrong sub?

Maybe since it is so important, or they just haven't noticed?

[Kouye]

Maybe since it is so important, or they just haven't noticed?

Or...

[Peter Lambert]

Out of curiosity, how do you reliably measure the amount of bitcoin exchange going on OTC?

Obviously you don't reliably measure it, you're stuck guessing. Otherwise you'd have exact %s.

Depending on how well connected you are that guess is going to be more or less accurate (which is why the guesses of the unconnected are so way off the mark).

OK, that is what I thought.

I wonder how much of the volume reported at exchanges is real, and how much is just them trading with themselves to make themselves look more respectable? With all the shit that went down from MtGox, can we really trust the numbers they self-reported?

[cryptodevil]

Problem is you did not raise any valid points, and from the manner in which you raised those invalid pseudopoints it became apparent there's no practical, cheap, or easy way to correct you. So...what's one to do.

What kind of absurd and intellectually dishonest answer is that?

I did raise a valid point, that for all your screeching about TBF you haven't actually got an alternative proposal. People would be far more likely to pay attention to the allegations you are making if you also have a viable alternative that they can get behind.

Shouting for the downfall of an existing system without being able to offer up anything to replace it is juvenile.

Besides which, how about you learn some fucking self-control with your shitty attitude and you might get somewhere with this, otherwise you're just a deranged psycho on the interwebz spouting off conspiracy theories and telling anyone who doesn't simply '+1' you that they're assholes and to fuck off.

You may have valid points to make but I can assure you that none of them are going to be heard above the noise of your disconcerting rage.

[MPOE-PR]

OK, that is what I thought.

I wonder how much of the volume reported at exchanges is real, and how much is just them trading with themselves to make themselves look more respectable? With all the shit that went down from MtGox, can we really trust the numbers they self-reported?

Indeed not. "We" now know Gox mostly traded with itself, and MP sez the price signal is pretty much RIP these days.

[AnonyMint]

OK, that is what I thought.

I wonder how much of the volume reported at exchanges is real, and how much is just them trading with themselves to make themselves look more respectable? With all the shit that went down from MtGox, can we really trust the numbers they self-reported?

Indeed not. "We" now know Gox mostly traded with itself, and MP sez the price signal is pretty much RIP these days.

So the transactions to price growth ratio is even worse than we thought or was this all internal trades not on blockchain? The chart is in my archives at the Ponzi thread. Don't feel like digging it up.

[cryptog1]

I m suspicious about the integrity of the main dev.
He said back in 2011 already that bitcoin would have to be centralized to maintain affordable fees.
His ties with the cia and cfr are dubious

[augustocroppo]

I think anything anyone can do to help strengthen a group of dedicated Bitcoin users is a good thing.

There is nothing to gain by tearing people down (falsely at least!) or inventing reasons to hate stuff. It's far better if we support new initiatives and defend their right to exist.

The Bitcoin Foundation imbecile above did try to initiate a discussion about how to protect the Bitcoin users from fraudulent schemes. It turn out he cannot cope with my harsh response. The topic is already lost somewhere after the first page of this section.

A reply of yours, quoted below, was deleted by the starter of a self-moderated topic. There are no rules of self-moderation, so this deletion cannot be appealed. Do not continue posting in this topic if the topic-starter has requested that you leave.

You can create a new topic if you are unsatisfied with this one. If the topic-starter is scamming, post about it in Scam Accusations.

When a system is corrupted from top to bottom, the only thing it can be done to improve security is to replace the whole system.

Hi all. I would prefer useful contributions only to this thread. I'll leave this here as an example of a truly useless contribution though. If you don't want to help people not get ripped off, please kindly step aside without posting.

I am sure you are not aware of the contributions I made to protect the forum participants from fraudulent schemes perpetrated in this forum. It is certainly true I had provided much more support rather than you to different participants since my inception in this forum. It is all recorded in my post history and anyone can verify.

You in the other hand, what you even know about security?

If you want to protect the forum participants from fraudulent schemes, you should start by replacing your "benevolent dictator" (a.k.a. Michael a.k.a. Theymos). He is the top and he is corrupted as much the bottom is corrupted. So when a system is corrupted from the top to bottom, the best thing to be done is to replace the whole system. A new software, a new administration and a new user base is necessary to provide a reasonable safe utilization of this board.

PS:

Oh, and since two can play that game, "Dr." Brian Goss (a freshly failed medical student in Chicago interviewing for residency training in radiology): here's your old page, from back when you were pushing the mywallet scam.

Quite respectable indeed, imbecile.

As pointed by MPOE-PR, you do not even have any background related to IT security...

Imbecile, indeed.

[freebit13]

Maybe since it is so important, or they just haven't noticed?

Or...

Well, 2 bumps from the "Cuddling, censored, unicorn-shaped troll" and still here... don't know if it's or...

FWIW I agree with a lot of the points OP brings up and I personally don't think we need a "The Bitcoin Foundation"... has anyone got a contact for "The TCP/IP Foundation"? ...my neighbor stole my bandwidth the other day and I need someone to regulate them.

C'mon now, everyone say it with me... DE-CEN-TRA-LIZED...

[MPOE-PR]

So the transactions to price growth ratio is even worse than we thought or was this all internal trades not on blockchain? The chart is in my archives at the Ponzi thread. Don't feel like digging it up.

The "transactions" thing is meaningless anyway.

[MPOE-PR]

The foundation's leadership is being overhauled. Vessenes and Matonis are out shortly. Pros are coming.

Just wanted to quote this in case the usagi-lookalike (hey, selling Bitcoin insurance, totally new idea and everything right?) ends up behaving like usagi.

[GigaCoin]

I'm with MP on this, the foundation has really been lacking any kind of real progress and vision despite sitting on a massive stash of coin donations. I think it's time for change

also new revelations by a whistleblower may prove some deep corruption within the foundation:

http://valleywag.gawker.com/whistleblower-threatens-to-expose-corruption-at-bitcoin-1538965958/@laceydonohue

[Phinnaeus Gage]

Also what happened to Theymos and upgrading the forum software with those $10 Million dollars donated to the forum???

Don't bother theymos right now! He's busy trying to figure out if the bounty should be $50K or $100K USD to have somebody create a program to make sure that accounts like this one don't get registered again: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=268947

BTW, MPOE-PR's my God!

[Phinnaeus Gage]

This is good enough of a place as any to finally getting around to post the following.

<because the thread is locked> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=113400.msg1272155#msg1272155 <both quotes are by Gavin Andresen, a guy I still desire to trust, but...>

RE: do I have gazillions of bitcoins:

I've said before that I have "thousands of bitcoins, not tens or hundreds of thousands of bitcoins." I have mined a grand total of 250 bitcoins-- electricity here is not particularly cheap, and I'm a software kind of guy, not a hardware hacker. So it always made more sense for me to buy bitcoins rather than mining them.

I would definitely be wealthier right now if I had been working as the CTO for a company for the last two years and had never heard of Bitcoin.

http://mag.newsweek.com/2014/03/14/bitcoin-satoshi-nakamoto.html <strange date, unless it means March, [20]14, and not March, 14, 2014>

Holding the keys has also made early comers to Bitcoin wealthy beyond measure. "I made a small investment in Bitcoin and it is actually enough that I could now retire if I wanted to," Andresen says. "Overall, I've made about $800 per penny I've invested. It's insane."

Meanwhile, my 1,132 BTC is still being held hostage by InstaWallet, having been repaid last month ONLY the smaller of three wallets that I put in honest claims for--0.835 BTC--back in April, 2013. All the way up to the supposed hack, I championed InstaWallet, especially having been rest assured that all is well just two weeks prior to the thief. It excites me to learn that Paymium and Bitcoin-Central, of which is backed by a bank, are doing so well. So excited, excuse me while I go and jack off.

~Bruno Kucinskas

[eldentyrell]

I agree with you in spirit, but you should be a bit more up-front about the fact that Conformal's bitcoind implementation is written in the "Go" language.

There's nothing wrong with that, but there also isn't much demand outside of Conformal for a bitcoin client written in Go.

Even if that weren't the case, your post implies that the Bitcoin community is the development community.

No, actually, your post is the one implying that connection.  From what I've seen, non-developer users care a lot about the size of a project's developer base, both actual and potential.  They see it as a component of project viability.

Regarding the kooky attempt to launch a debate on the merits of the Go language: that's something I've said nothing about, and it's completely beside my point.

[The Bitcoin Foundation]

hear hear

[MPOE-PR]

Don't bother theymos right now! He's busy trying to figure out if the bounty should be $50K or $100K USD to have somebody create a program to make sure that accounts like this one don't get registered again: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=268947

BTW, MPOE-PR's my God!

Well at least they did move the thread safely out of Bitcoin Discussion, so you know. Doing their part.

[EEPICYOO]

This is good enough of a place as any to finally getting around to post the following.

<because the thread is locked> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=113400.msg1272155#msg1272155 <both quotes are by Gavin Andresen, a guy I still desire to trust, but...>

RE: do I have gazillions of bitcoins:

I've said before that I have "thousands of bitcoins, not tens or hundreds of thousands of bitcoins." I have mined a grand total of 250 bitcoins-- electricity here is not particularly cheap, and I'm a software kind of guy, not a hardware hacker. So it always made more sense for me to buy bitcoins rather than mining them.

I would definitely be wealthier right now if I had been working as the CTO for a company for the last two years and had never heard of Bitcoin.

http://mag.newsweek.com/2014/03/14/bitcoin-satoshi-nakamoto.html <strange date, unless it means March, [20]14, and not March, 14, 2014>

Holding the keys has also made early comers to Bitcoin wealthy beyond measure. "I made a small investment in Bitcoin and it is actually enough that I could now retire if I wanted to," Andresen says. "Overall, I've made about $800 per penny I've invested. It's insane."

Meanwhile, my 1,132 BTC is still being held hostage by InstaWallet, having been repaid last month ONLY the smaller of three wallets that I put in honest claims for--0.835 BTC--back in April, 2013. All the way up to the supposed hack, I championed InstaWallet, especially having been rest assured that all is well just two weeks prior to the thief. It excites me to learn that Paymium and Bitcoin-Central, of which is backed by a bank, are doing so well. So excited, excuse me while I go and jack off.

~Bruno Kucinskas

wowzerz!!!~this post is epik::::>>> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=113400.msg1331245#msg1331245

[EEPICYOO]

Yeah, what a scam to take peoples membership money and use it to organize conferences, lobby regulators, provide a resource for business and the press, to provide a space to coordinate the volunteer efforts of dozens of people who actually do something. Wow such scam! Only a doggy based coin could save us now.  

imho-->> you all don't do shit!(*except maybe G-man)

fyi~I happen to be a Bitcoin Foundation "Volunteer"

...how am i doing? LOL

:-)

weeeeeeeee

[RodeoX]

Yeah, what a scam to take peoples membership money and use it to organize conferences, lobby regulators, provide a resource for business and the press, to provide a space to coordinate the volunteer efforts of dozens of people who actually do something. Wow such scam! Only a doggy based coin could save us now.  

imho-->> you all don't do shit!(*except maybe G-man)

fyi~I happen to be a Bitcoin Foundation "Volunteer"

...how am i doing? LOL

:-)

weeeeeeeee

Your doing about as well as we thought you would.

[EEPICYOO]

Yeah, what a scam to take peoples membership money and use it to organize conferences, lobby regulators, provide a resource for business and the press, to provide a space to coordinate the volunteer efforts of dozens of people who actually do something. Wow such scam! Only a doggy based coin could save us now.  

imho-->> you all don't do shit!(*except maybe G-man)

fyi~I happen to be a Bitcoin Foundation "Volunteer"

...how am i doing? LOL

:-)

weeeeeeeee

Your doing about as well as we thought you would.

i know i've been slacking off!...but can we make a change? =)

[bananas]

 The problem with the foundation is that they are nothing more than speculators themselves and don't even have elementary skills to hide it. They are not interested in the long term success of bitcoin.

 Typical statement of bitcoin foundation(or a member) when a big scam, theft etc happens "You should not invest more than you are willing to lose.". If the foundation was legit they would say "It is not an investment, get just enough you need for your commercial transactions if you do any at all. Speculators must be banned from our community, we are working on it."

[RodeoX]

The problem with the foundation is that they are nothing more than speculators themselves and don't even have elementary skills to hide it. They are not interested in the long term success of bitcoin.

 Typical statement of bitcoin foundation(or a member) when a big scam, theft etc happens "You should not invest more than you are willing to lose.". If the foundation was legit they would say "It is not an investment, get just enough you need for your commercial transactions if you do any at all. Speculators must be banned from our community, we are working on it."

Except that we are not interested in telling people what they can and can't do with their money. Bitcoin was not designed as a speculative financial instrument, but you can try doing it anyway. The part about not "investing more than you can loose" is not a bitcoin thing, that comes from stock trading.
Lastly, some members of the BF have been helping bitcoin succeed since the beginning. To say the BF is not interested in the long term success of bitcoin is to say that you don't know about the BF. 

[bananas]

Holding the keys has also made early comers to Bitcoin wealthy beyond measure. "I made a small investment in Bitcoin and it is actually enough that I could now retire if I wanted to," Andresen says. "Overall, I've made about $800 per penny I've invested. It's insane."

How legit is this high profile bitcoin foundation figure?

So he prefers US dollars over bitcoins? So he speculate instead of using it as a currency? Seems legit.

[bananas]

Except that we are not interested in telling people what they can and can't do with their money. Bitcoin was not designed as a speculative financial instrument, but you can try doing it anyway.

The news is full of statements of the foundation as its members as if it were an investment. Period. And if the foundation was legit they would tell, just tell, people what they can and can't do with it. No country tolerates speculation with its currency for obvious reasons, bitcoin should be no different.

I'm a speculator myself, but anything that has the intention of representing bitcoin can't be or have members who are.

[RodeoX]

Except that we are not interested in telling people what they can and can't do with their money. Bitcoin was not designed as a speculative financial instrument, but you can try doing it anyway.

The news is full of statements of the foundation as its members as if it were an investment. Period. And if the foundation was legit they would tell, just tell, people what they can and can't do with it. No country tolerates speculation with its currency for obvious reasons, bitcoin should be no different.

I'm a speculator myself, but anything that has the intention of representing bitcoin can't be or have members who are.

Ok then. I command you to stop speculating! 

But seriously, no one can or should make rules about what you do with your money. That would never fly at the foundation.

[bananas]

Except that we are not interested in telling people what they can and can't do with their money. Bitcoin was not designed as a speculative financial instrument, but you can try doing it anyway.

The news is full of statements of the foundation as its members as if it were an investment. Period. And if the foundation was legit they would tell, just tell, people what they can and can't do with it. No country tolerates speculation with its currency for obvious reasons, bitcoin should be no different.

I'm a speculator myself, but anything that has the intention of representing bitcoin can't be or have members who are.

Ok then. I command you to stop speculating!  

But seriously, no one can or should make rules about what you do with your money. That would never fly at the foundation.

I agree but it is not about rules, it is about the foundation representing Bitcoin. They are not doing it, and not giving the example themselves.

They are only representing speculators, cause that's exactly what they are.

From the foundation website:
"We approach that mission with Bitcoin’s technology and community as our focus. There is tremendous potential in Bitcoin—from the opportunities it creates for entrepreneurs to the purchasing power it provides for citizens of countries large and small."

 They are doing exactly the opposite by speculating,  they don't care for anything other than their own short term interests. The quoted statement is hilarious to me. It is a scam !

[KingOfSports]

Had a similar opinion to this group and the forum as a whole. What are they truly doing to further bitcoin besides holding conferences; yeah they're great, but are they advertising bitcoin? Not really.

The forum is great but the amount of donations kind of exceeds what is really needed. The bitcoins of the forum aren't even being used that much and there are a lot of things the forum could do to promote bitcoin as well as improve the forum and its code too. The forum, eye-attracting wise, isn't that alluring. I feel many would feel the same way here.

[QuestionAuthority]

They are moving the main office to the UK. "Section 1.1 Principal Office" of their Bylaws state they will maintain an office in DC which, of course, they never did because they're a virtual org. Now they are going to really have their first brick & mortar office and it will be somewhere other than stated in their own charter. What a clusterfuck of maniacal egomaniac geeks. I don't think there's a single upper member of that organization that I would let park my Mercedes if they worked as a valet. They must have completely screwed up all of the meetings in Washington so they are going to give the UK a try now. We will never know how badly they performed in Washington because they don't even keep their own membership informed. The membership must learn what's happening at the foundation from Reddit. lol

[Atruk]

Had a similar opinion to this group and the forum as a whole. What are they truly doing to further bitcoin besides holding conferences; yeah they're great, but are they advertising bitcoin? Not really.

The forum is great but the amount of donations kind of exceeds what is really needed. The bitcoins of the forum aren't even being used that much and there are a lot of things the forum could do to promote bitcoin as well as improve the forum and its code too. The forum, eye-attracting wise, isn't that alluring. I feel many would feel the same way here.

This forum hasn't been close to the center of BTC in quite some time.

[Bit_Happy]

Had a similar opinion to this group and the forum as a whole. What are they truly doing to further bitcoin besides holding conferences; yeah they're great, but are they advertising bitcoin? Not really.

The forum is great but the amount of donations kind of exceeds what is really needed. The bitcoins of the forum aren't even being used that much and there are a lot of things the forum could do to promote bitcoin as well as improve the forum and its code too. The forum, eye-attracting wise, isn't that alluring. I feel many would feel the same way here.

This forum hasn't been close to the center of BTC in quite some time.

Where is the center of BTC?

[Justin00]

turn left at the unicorn

Had a similar opinion to this group and the forum as a whole. What are they truly doing to further bitcoin besides holding conferences; yeah they're great, but are they advertising bitcoin? Not really.

The forum is great but the amount of donations kind of exceeds what is really needed. The bitcoins of the forum aren't even being used that much and there are a lot of things the forum could do to promote bitcoin as well as improve the forum and its code too. The forum, eye-attracting wise, isn't that alluring. I feel many would feel the same way here.

This forum hasn't been close to the center of BTC in quite some time.

Where is the center of BTC?

[MPOE-PR]

Holding the keys has also made early comers to Bitcoin wealthy beyond measure. "I made a small investment in Bitcoin and it is actually enough that I could now retire if I wanted to," Andresen says. "Overall, I've made about $800 per penny I've invested. It's insane."

How legit is this high profile bitcoin foundation figure?

So he prefers US dollars over bitcoins? So he speculate instead of using it as a currency? Seems legit.

Any revolutionary idea will be at first promoted by people that just happen to be around at the time. So he thinks the world in dollars, what of it. So he won't be around for much longer, at least not in the sense of relevance. What of it.

They are moving the main office to the UK. "Section 1.1 Principal Office" of their Bylaws state they will maintain an office in DC which, of course, they never did because they're a virtual org. Now they are going to really have their first brick & mortar office and it will be somewhere other than stated in their own charter. What a clusterfuck of maniacal egomaniac geeks. I don't think there's a single upper member of that organization that I would let park my Mercedes if they worked as a valet. They must have completely screwed up all of the meetings in Washington so they are going to give the UK a try now. We will never know how badly they performed in Washington because they don't even keep their own membership informed. The membership must learn what's happening at the foundation from Reddit. lol

It's always funny what comes out of geeks meeting politics.

But yes, leaving aside they failed to ever produce as much as a fucking report, let alone one up to standard, asking them for minutes seems way over the top. And besides, who wants more of that crap.

Where is the center of BTC?

IRC.

turn left at the unicorn

That's the other one.

[benjamindees]

It’s quite plain to anyone with a clue that 2FA/GA/whatever is roughly speaking the equivalent of the Windows antivirus, or more classically of the “spray some holy water on it”.

I'm glad someone else has noticed this.

It was thought out, constructed and initially run by Peter Vessenes

Apparently Shrem has taken credit for the idea.

[marquix]

Alt coins are and will remain a play thing. These are decided by the people who matter, and the people who matter aren't either the derps vying for the spotlight "doing" altcoins nor the derps vying for the spotlight "doing" foundations, conferences, articles and assorted bullshit.

I think you underestimate the alt-coins. If most people got burnt on MtGox they don't mind switch over to an alt-coin, they got nothing to lose.

Ripple is the best alt-coin right now since it's based on other assets than itself (the users add the intrinsic value).

but that is true of Mastercoin, too. Plus, Mastercoin is REALLY decentralized (not controlled by some Ripple Labs, Inc. holding the 'commodity' used in the system and, at the same time, being some totally un-decentralized and un-peer-to-peerish CENTRAL POINT OF FAILURE, if not authority, too)...

So taking your argument a step further, wouldn't Mastercoin also qualify as "best" then (or even "better-than-best")?

Just curious.

[mike2010]

Why not establishing new foundation, with paid members ( 0.00001 BTC), with voting system, and everything virtual?
Why let anyone take credit for anything, and get paid to talk on tv and other places!
If we can want to keep bitcoin free from Banks and Gov!We need to act professionally!

Foundation with serious members will gain respect!

Also someone should think about Central Bank idea! something totally new! Not a copy cat of Feb or other Central Bank current systems!

 

[Xelpherpolis]

Bitcoin Foundation? .... please go away. Its amazing how powerful these geeks delude themselves to be.

[QuestionAuthority]

OP please lock this thread. It's served its purpose and you were proven right. TBF is a bunch of scummy fucks. Oh, never mind. I forgot you're permabanned.


Off-topic discussion was moved to Meta https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=608857.0

[freebit13]

The scam may have just gone too far...

http://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-foundation-members-resign-following-controversial-appointment/

[raskul]

this is perhaps something like how a real foundation *should* have been set up
http://sovereign.rgspix.com/?p=4

TheScribe(Europe) has been working on this idea for a long time now, and we are close to (re)launching our alt coin - The Sovereign.
this coin will in no way compete with Bitcoin, but it would have been nice if 900TH/s hadn't dumped an attack on us, right out of the gate a launch (justsaying).

so.. foundation.. isn't that a form of make-up for the female gender (and actors)