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Author Topic: update: casascius.COM is GOOD but casascius.NET is EVIL / FRAUD / SCAM / 1%  (Read 4788 times)
mizerydearia
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October 26, 2011, 12:09:43 PM
 #41

It is one of those in the overall scheme of things, this was not the right thing to do, overall.  This specific case, seems like everything is working out well enough.

It could be argued that this statement is incorrect in the sense that had casascius not massly propagated this issue throughout all intertubes connecting all bitcoiners (in this case via emails only), then this would not have been as noticed as it has been and the following may have had continued:

- http://casascius.net/ still existing as phishing site and NOT redirecting to https://casascius.com/ and  providing opportunity for additional fraudulent revenue  (note that the .net domain is still managed by the phisher and at any time could cease redirecting to .com domain)

Perhaps the concern is more about the content of the mass email than the intent of the mass email.  This may be more accurately recognized in consideration of my similar efforts in which I emailed ALL THE HACKERSPACES and messaged ALL THEIR IRC CHANS asking a simple/short question or providing a simple short statement suggestive/asking if they've heard about the european bitcoin conference next month.  Most of the hackerspaces were appreciative of my spreading awareness and even offered to relay to mailing lists, etc. and were not defensive or expressing of dissatisfaction for such unsolicited technology-related informations/news.  Also, similarly my effort towards Bitcoin Around the World in which I unsolicitedly messaged all non-usian IRCers with short message similar to "hiya.  have you noticed #bitcoin-xx?  that is all ^_^ *waves*" were mostly accepted/appreciated since many of the individuals didn't realize there were others from their country or even forums, mining pools, exchanges, etc for their country.  (note: there were a few that backlashed/raged* similarly as to this experience here, but they were obnoxious minority)



Let's evaluate what casascius's mistakes were:

Sorry to be sending e-mail to the Mt.Gox leak list. (unnecessary/obnoxious)

Please be advised that a recent e-mail purporting to be from me regarding Casascius Physical
Bitcoins is fake and leads to a phishing site.  Don't give out your info unless you're sure you're
at the right place.
(maybe okay, but perhaps could be stated more simply)

The real Casascius Physical Bitcoins website is at https://www.casascius.com. (This is the controversial part*)

If you do not know how to verify my PGP signature, consider looking me up on the forums to make
sure you have the right address and are not being phished.
(unsure if this is acceptable or not)

Sorry for the hassle and the inconvenience, but I suppose this was going to happen sooner or later. (also unsure)

*controversial part: Is it better to link to the phishing site only?  the phishing site and the original/real site?  no links at all?  any reference to which site is the phishing site?  any reference to which is the real site?  is it acceptable to indicate which operation/site is being phished?



Also, the smallest of concerns/issues liek these...

small/family business: FUUUUUUUUUU, my business's reputation is declining...
corporation: *ignore until it costs more to ignore than to not ignore*
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Inaba
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October 26, 2011, 01:05:45 PM
 #42

Real or not, casascius should not have sent that email to cover up things with the corrected address.  I'm sure not an easy decision, but still the wrong one.

The wrong one for any particular reason?  Or just because you state it is so, despite what appears to be the majority here disagreeing.  I am not sure I buy the slippery slope argument - as though somehow my warning leads to legitimizing Viagra and fake diploma spam.  The vast majority of responses to my message were appreciative.  You'd accept an unsolicited e-mail from your kid's school if it burned down, I assume, right?  How about if it was an Amber alert, where the odds of you encountering the missing kid are about 1000000:1.  There are circumstances that warrant it, and I am appreciative that most here seem to agree with the judgment call I made.  I hate spam too.

If there is anything I should have done differently, I should have avoided putting a link to my website in my message, so there was no possibility of it being construed as a veiled ad.  I could say I'll remember that for next time, but I'm not a habitual spammer and am not anticipating there ever being a next time.



It is wrong because you sent UBE (Spam), regardless of your reasoning.  If the email was not requested, you do not send it.  Plain and simple.  I would not accept UBE from my kids school and I sure as hell would not want any Amber Alerts (They are ridiculous and completely useless - the number of children found due to an Amber Alert (email or otherwise) can be counted on one hand and has cost tax payers millions and millions of dollars).  There are NO circumstances that warrant UBE.  None.  Ever.  So your decision to send some was wrong.

You seem to be under the impression that you somehow have/had a responsibility to protect people from their own stupidity.  That is an impossible task that has been proven time and again over the centuries.  This is the fundamental flaw in your logic/justification of sending out the UBE you sent - it's NOT your responsibility to police the internet.  If people click on a spam email to buy something, they deserve to be ripped off.  If they are too stupid to realize that it's a fake site, so be it.  They should not have been buying from a spammer in the first place.  If they did not do their due diligence to be sure the site was real, they deserve whatever they get.  That is the problem and that is why you sending out your email was wrong on every single level.

If you're searching these lines for a point, you've probably missed it.  There was never anything there in the first place.
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October 26, 2011, 03:14:46 PM
 #43

+1 Inaba


casascius.net is redirecting me to casascius.com  Shocked

Well isn't that awfully nice of a "scam" site to now redirect to the "real" site  Roll Eyes

XXX Coin - You decide
XXX Coin
RandyFolds
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October 26, 2011, 05:36:20 PM
 #44

Real or not, casascius should not have sent that email to cover up things with the corrected address.  I'm sure not an easy decision, but still the wrong one.

The wrong one for any particular reason?  Or just because you state it is so, despite what appears to be the majority here disagreeing.  I am not sure I buy the slippery slope argument - as though somehow my warning leads to legitimizing Viagra and fake diploma spam.  The vast majority of responses to my message were appreciative.  You'd accept an unsolicited e-mail from your kid's school if it burned down, I assume, right?  How about if it was an Amber alert, where the odds of you encountering the missing kid are about 1000000:1.  There are circumstances that warrant it, and I am appreciative that most here seem to agree with the judgment call I made.  I hate spam too.

If there is anything I should have done differently, I should have avoided putting a link to my website in my message, so there was no possibility of it being construed as a veiled ad.  I could say I'll remember that for next time, but I'm not a habitual spammer and am not anticipating there ever being a next time.



It is wrong because you sent UBE (Spam), regardless of your reasoning.  If the email was not requested, you do not send it.  Plain and simple.  I would not accept UBE from my kids school and I sure as hell would not want any Amber Alerts (They are ridiculous and completely useless - the number of children found due to an Amber Alert (email or otherwise) can be counted on one hand and has cost tax payers millions and millions of dollars).  There are NO circumstances that warrant UBE.  None.  Ever.  So your decision to send some was wrong.

You seem to be under the impression that you somehow have/had a responsibility to protect people from their own stupidity.  That is an impossible task that has been proven time and again over the centuries.  This is the fundamental flaw in your logic/justification of sending out the UBE you sent - it's NOT your responsibility to police the internet.  If people click on a spam email to buy something, they deserve to be ripped off.  If they are too stupid to realize that it's a fake site, so be it.  They should not have been buying from a spammer in the first place.  If they did not do their due diligence to be sure the site was real, they deserve whatever they get.  That is the problem and that is why you sending out your email was wrong on every single level.


If you have kids, I really hope they are never kidnapped, with you holed up in a bunker screaming about unsolicited email and phone calls from their school and the police and your kids getting sold in thailand in the meantime. Your assumption about amber alert is also fucking retarded. There was just a guy who ran a kidnapper down this year in california...like, ran him down, yanked him from his car, kicked the shit out of him and saved some girl. He was fucking awesome. You are just a little bitch.

I really can't believe anyone is this stupid...seriously...like, full-on retarded...

...Hey Casacius, it's not your responsibility to protect the stupid, even though it's severely infringing upon your branding and hard work.

Inaba, maybe you should release a product call Mikerosoft Windows and tell the lawyers that call you, "it's cool, I am only scamming those too stupid to take care of themselves".

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Nubarius
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October 26, 2011, 06:37:52 PM
 #45

I have received the e-mail from Casascius, but not any of the phishing e-mails, which seems to indicate that the scammers haven't used the Mt. Gox leaked list of e-mail addresses. Anyway, I don't think there's anything wrong with what he has done, and the wording of his e-mail, where he repeatedly apologises for sending these e-mails indiscriminately to the whole Mt. Gox list, seems reasonable enough to me.

One of the sad consequences of all the scams that have plagued Bitcoin services is the level of paranoia that pervades the Bitcoin community now. Even people like Casascius who have done such great work for Bitcoin and shared such great ideas with the community now have to put up with being called spammers and worse just because of an (arguably misguided) attempt at preventing fraud using his name.
casascius
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The Casascius 1oz 10BTC Silver Round (w/ Gold B)


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October 26, 2011, 07:11:45 PM
 #46

I just received a ransom "request" from the would-be attackers...

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=49947

Companies claiming they got hacked and lost your coins sounds like fraud so perfect it could be called fashionable.  I never believe them.  If I ever experience the misfortune of a real intrusion, I declare I have been honest about the way I have managed the keys in Casascius Coins.  I maintain no ability to recover or reproduce the keys, not even under limitless duress or total intrusion.  Remember that trusting strangers with your coins without any recourse is, as a matter of principle, not a best practice.  Don't keep coins online. Use paper wallets instead.
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