Eternal Bitcoin Bonds by Usagi

[usagi]

Hello, I am here today to offer Eternal Bitcoin Bonds, for sale today!

All bonds are essentially loans, of course, which require collateral. My collateral is both personally owned and highly liquid, in the form of blue-chip stocks. In short, you have NOTHING to worry about.

You may lay claim to your collateral in the form of agreement to my personal information and arbitration via http://judge.me (free) or we can even sign a document drafted by Real Lawyers (tm) -- which you would pay for of course.

Each Eternal Bitcoin Bond costs 1 BTC, and pays 0.05 btc back to you every anniversary of your purchase -- forever.

Fractional investment is acceptable, so long as you understand you will be paying any transaction fees...

You may redeem the bonds for 1 BTC at any time by forfeiting what would have been the interest accrued until that point.

I reserve the right to repurchase said bonds at any time for 105% of purchase price, which would sever the obligation to pay interest on the bonds.

[GBattaglia]

Hello, I am here today to offer Eternal Bitcoin Bonds, for sale today!

All bonds are essentially loans, of course, which require collateral. My collateral is both personally owned and highly liquid, in the form of blue-chip stocks. In short, you have NOTHING to worry about.

You may lay claim to your collateral in the form of agreement to my personal information and arbitration via http://judge.me (free) or we can even sign a document drafted by Real Lawyers (tm) -- which you would pay for of course.

Each Eternal Bitcoin Bond costs 1 BTC, and pays 0.05 btc back to you every anniversary of your purchase -- forever.

Fractional investment is acceptable, so long as you understand you will be paying any transaction fees...

You may redeem the bonds for 1 BTC at any time by forfeiting what would have been the interest accrued until that point.

I reserve the right to repurchase said bonds at any time for 105% of purchase price, which would sever the obligation to pay interest on the bonds.

5% APR, keeping in mind many loans here run at about 5%/month interest.  That isn't taking into account that principal is returned as well by that date.

[IrishFutbol]

5% return is incredibly low for this security.  Some governments issue perpetual bonds at rates higher than this.  The US and UK also both issue 20-30 year securities at rates around 5% (and when you factor in that you get your principal back, it's basically the same).

[usagi]

5% return is incredibly low for this security.  Some governments issue perpetual bonds at rates higher than this.  The US and UK also both issue 20-30 year securities at rates around 5% (and when you factor in that you get your principal back, it's basically the same).

The 5% is for the whole 20 years though, not on an annualized basis. You can redeem these after 1 year.

You're right, this investment is extremely low-risk -- suitable to dump $1M+ into without thinking. This is a real investment for serious money, not a $1200 rig or dipping your toe in with a couple of BTC riding on just-dice profits.

You can do that with bitcoin too, but you risk losing 50% just as much as you risk a gain. I know lots of ppl who were selling in the 900's, then the 800s, then under 800, because they knew. Just saying. And that was, like, 1 or 2 months ago.

[DrGregMulhauser]

5% APR, keeping in mind many loans here run at about 5%/month interest.  That isn't taking into account that principal is returned as well by that date.

Borrowers paying exorbitant rates of interest are doing so because they have to do so in order to attract capital, not out of the kindness of their hearts.

From an article last year called "Junk Bond Indigestion in the Bitcoin Economy":

"...promises of exceptionally high yields on Bitcoin-denominated debt do not represent the “going rate” or remotely plausible yield expectations for debt or other Bitcoin investments; they represent nothing more than the risk premium for low-quality debt."

The 5% is for the whole 20 years though, not on an annualized basis. You can redeem these after 1 year.

Just to clarify, the current yield on US 30-year treasuries is 3.56% per annum.

[Neo.op]

Borrowers paying exorbitant rates of interest are doing so because they have to do so in order to attract capital, not out of the kindness of their hearts.

From an article last year called "Junk Bond Indigestion in the Bitcoin Economy":

"...promises of exceptionally high yields on Bitcoin-denominated debt do not represent the “going rate” or remotely plausible yield expectations for debt or other Bitcoin investments; they represent nothing more than the risk premium for low-quality debt."

No one ever pays even a dime from their hearts -- jokes aside, the volatility and past performance in btc/mining products have made many convinced of double digit returns. Add to this the fact that some of the alt-coins provide a significant returns fuelling the fire.

That said, tell me 5 bonds on this forum which in real world will not be rated junk? If not for the idea, the way people handle funds.

[twentyseventy]

5% return is incredibly low for this security.  Some governments issue perpetual bonds at rates higher than this.  The US and UK also both issue 20-30 year securities at rates around 5% (and when you factor in that you get your principal back, it's basically the same).

The 5% is for the whole 20 years though, not on an annualized basis. You can redeem these after 1 year.

You're right, this investment is extremely low-risk -- suitable to dump $1M+ into without thinking. This is a real investment for serious money, not a $1200 rig or dipping your toe in with a couple of BTC riding on just-dice profits.

You can do that with bitcoin too, but you risk losing 50% just as much as you risk a gain. I know lots of ppl who were selling in the 900's, then the 800s, then under 800, because they knew. Just saying. And that was, like, 1 or 2 months ago.

I don't see anywhere that IrishFutbol said that the investment was extremely low risk. Plus, it's a terrible idea to dump millions of dollars of BTC into any investment 'without thinking'.

Obviously, the counter-party risk here is the biggest risk factor and not something to be taken lightly.

Also, since you're here, what happened to your plans to buy DMS 'debt' for 90%? And why are you still advertising the mega-scam that is MCXnow in your signature?

[DrGregMulhauser]

That said, tell me 5 bonds on this forum which in real world will not be rated junk? If not for the idea, the way people handle funds.

Yep, don't get me wrong -- I'm not defending anyone's bonds!

[Neo.op]

That said, tell me 5 bonds on this forum which in real world will not be rated junk? If not for the idea, the way people handle funds.

Yep, don't get me wrong -- I'm not defending anyone's bonds!

Never said you were. I am just saying given the nature of money management rampant in the crypto world, its rather justified to ask returns at par with junk bonds. Things will improve but it might take years before it happens.

[OgNasty]

You're right, this investment is extremely low-risk

This investment isn't low risk at all...  You're promising returns that you will be unable to give in the long term, as I don't believe you have the capacity or the ability to grow an operation capable of sustaining 5% returns in BTC if the BTC price continues to rise.  So either this will be a bad investment because 1) BTC price will rise and you won't be able to pay out bondholders as promised, or 2) BTC price will fall and the returns will be so minuscule in USD terms, you could have spent that BTC on nearly anything else and came out ahead.

If I am wrong, please tell me how you would spend the raised BTC, so that if the price goes up 100x, you will be able to pay out 500% per year on the original raised funds?

Also, I am curious what liabilities you have to others that have given you BTC in the past.  I've seen you issue so many securities now, I honestly have no idea what it is you do to make money, other than take from others and funnel it to yourself under the guise of mismanagement.

My apologies if I've missed some point where you made right for the past failures.

[MPOE-PR]

All bonds are essentially loans, of course, which require collateral. My collateral is both personally owned and highly liquid, in the form of blue-chip stocks. In short, you have NOTHING to worry about.

I thought it was your guitar.

For any noobs reading: the OP is a mentally unstable, well known lolcow/scammer. He's been running the gamut of pure dementia to sheer insanity for three years or so. Throwing a few cents his way to enjoy the comedy show is highly encouraged. Anything else is lunacy.

Check this out, ognasty, Dr. Forehead, the entire derp brigade is here already.

How's "investments" these days, kids?

[thy]

Hai guys. I want to make you a special offer which is totally serious.

For a while I have been scheeming on how to leverage my landlocked assets into crypto and I have finally come up with something.

Here is how it works. I will take ANY loan for ANY amount of bitcoins you care to offer me.

1. Collateral
Collateral will be in the form of real estate or direct ownership of investments in real estate leveraged 1 to 10 on a 3rd party evaluation, meaning if I have a $500,000 property I will use it to back $50,000 of loan debt....

Wouldn't it be a whole lot easier that you just go to your local bank and there took out a loan with your house(s) as Collateral, it shouldn't be any problem to get up to 90-95% of the value(450 000+ usd instead of just 50 000 usd per 500 000$ value on the house) of the house on a loan at 1% yearly interest then and you wouldn't have any extra risk introduced by market fluctuations on USD/BTC price changes. ?

[BitcoinINV]

No bank will loan you 90% Value on a property try more like 65-70% they want you to have "skin" in the game

[thy]

No bank will loan you 90% Value on a property try more like 65-70% they want you to have "skin" in the game

Here they will, all banks here will loan you 90-95% of the value of your property, but it may work different in your country.

[DrGregMulhauser]

...given the nature of money management rampant in the crypto world, its rather justified to ask returns at par with junk bonds.

Clearly -- but even more so. IMHO, would-be investors in the Bitcoin space expect completely unrealistic levels of return from real businesses and real investments, yet fail to demand sufficiently high levels of return in exchange for funding junk debt. This ongoing failure to differentiate between clearly different risk profiles all but guarantees that the market will continue to be flooded with garbage. High-quality investments won't make it to market because investors unrealistically expect them to deliver junk-style returns, while those peddling actual junk are banging on the doors of any exchange or any individual creditor who will have them, because in risk-adjusted terms, most Bitcoin "investors" are giving away free money.

[usagi]

Hello, I am here today to offer Eternal Bitcoin Bonds, for sale today!

All bonds are essentially loans, of course, which require collateral. My collateral is both personally owned and highly liquid, in the form of blue-chip stocks.
[...]

This belongs in the long term lending forum, from which it was moved.

First, these "bonds" are not tradeable; they can't even be securitized by a third party because I can recall them at will. Second, If there was no collateral and people were buying shares of the profits of the investments, for example, then it would be a security.

Please move it back -- if this is not done I will have to re-post the offer in lending.

Also, since you're here, what happened to your plans to buy DMS 'debt' for 90%? And why are you still advertising the mega-scam that is MCXnow in your signature?

I haven't gotten around to listing on havelock yet. I'll send them an e-mail later today I guess.

#2. mcxNOW isn't a scam -- maybe realsolid scammed someone before, I have no idea, I certainly haven't seen any proof. As for mcxNOW, I have made a lot of money trading there. If you think it's a scam you should post your evidence to me in PM or on the scam accusation forum.

This investment isn't low risk at all...  You're promising returns that you will be unable to give in the long term, as I don't believe you have the capacity or the ability to grow an operation capable of sustaining 5% returns in BTC if the BTC price continues to rise. 

You are stating your belief as a categorical fact.

So either this will be a bad investment because....

Correction -- "I believe this will be a bad investment because..."

My apologies if I've missed some point where you made right for the past failures.

Accepted ;-)

Wouldn't it be a whole lot easier that you just go to your local bank and there took out a loan with your house(s) as Collateral, it shouldn't be any problem to get up to 90-95% of the value(450 000+ usd instead of just 50 000 usd per 500 000$ value on the house) of the house on a loan at 1% yearly interest then and you wouldn't have any extra risk introduced by market fluctuations on USD/BTC price changes. ?

I'm a foreigner so I can't get a mortgage. That being said I don't need a mortgage. I'll be using the actual money for investing in crypto and merely using the collateral as "pure collateral". If I had a mortgage on a property, for example, I couldn't use that property as collateral. Again, this is not a security, it's a loan.

[dexX7]

You may lay claim to your collateral in the form of agreement to my personal information and arbitration via http://judge.me ...

#2. mcxNOW isn't a scam -- maybe realsolid scammed someone before, I have no idea, I certainly haven't seen any proof. As for mcxNOW, I have made a lot of money trading there.

FYI:

Judge.me has ceased operations on Monday July 1st, 2013.

There is certainly more history, but the largest heist was the issuance of shares for several thousand coins and then closing down the shop.

mcxNOW - Scam or not?
MCXNow Can See your passwords! REALSolid has access to all your Passwords
mcxNOW raise 1 MILLION dollars in 12 hours! [UPDATE : make that 2]
MCXNow Realsolid Has Screwed Everyone. MCXNOW SHUTTING DOWN!!
MCXNow is closing! RealSolid bans anyone who mentions law enforcement!
The Official MCXNOW - REALSOLID SCAM Thread - Please add to this if u scammed.
----STAY AWAY FROM MCXNOW.------

I highly suggest to stay away from mcxNow, underlined by the sheer amount of negative feedback.

[OgNasty]

If I am wrong, please tell me how you would spend the raised BTC, so that if the price goes up 100x, you will be able to pay out 500% per year on the original raised funds?

Usagi, you responded to a lot of what I said, but didn't answer my only question.  I feel it is important for a lender to know what the loan will be used for.

[twentyseventy]

You may lay claim to your collateral in the form of agreement to my personal information and arbitration via http://judge.me ...

#2. mcxNOW isn't a scam -- maybe realsolid scammed someone before, I have no idea, I certainly haven't seen any proof. As for mcxNOW, I have made a lot of money trading there.

FYI:

Judge.me has ceased operations on Monday July 1st, 2013.

There is certainly more history, but the largest heist was the issuance of shares for several thousand coins and then closing down the shop.

mcxNOW - Scam or not?
MCXNow Can See your passwords! REALSolid has access to all your Passwords
mcxNOW raise 1 MILLION dollars in 12 hours! [UPDATE : make that 2]
MCXNow Realsolid Has Screwed Everyone. MCXNOW SHUTTING DOWN!!
MCXNow is closing! RealSolid bans anyone who mentions law enforcement!
The Official MCXNOW - REALSOLID SCAM Thread - Please add to this if u scammed.
----STAY AWAY FROM MCXNOW.------

I highly suggest to stay away from mcxNow, underlined by the sheer amount of negative feedback.

Thank you for saving me the time, Dex

[usagi]

mcxNOW - Scam or not?
MCXNow Can See your passwords! REALSolid has access to all your Passwords
mcxNOW raise 1 MILLION dollars in 12 hours! [UPDATE : make that 2]
MCXNow Realsolid Has Screwed Everyone. MCXNOW SHUTTING DOWN!!
MCXNow is closing! RealSolid bans anyone who mentions law enforcement!
The Official MCXNOW - REALSOLID SCAM Thread - Please add to this if u scammed.
----STAY AWAY FROM MCXNOW.------

I highly suggest to stay away from mcxNow, underlined by the sheer amount of negative feedback.

Thank you for saving me the time, Dex

Yeah I read those -- they're mostly BS. I don't need to waste time explaining why the shutdown threads are bs, do I? Or how any service can "see your passwords"?

If I am wrong, please tell me how you would spend the raised BTC, so that if the price goes up 100x, you will be able to pay out 500% per year on the original raised funds?

Usagi, you responded to a lot of what I said, but didn't answer my only question.  I feel it is important for a lender to know what the loan will be used for.

No, you don't need to know what the money will be used for -- this isn't a security, your "investment" (loan) is not dependant on the purpose of business. You have no "interest" in the business I am performing, per se -- I am offering highly liquid collateral. I don't mind telling you what the money will be used for, but second to the above you are framing yourself as a lender. Are you planning to loan to me? Namworld did. When he wanted to redeem I mailed him his 44oz. of silver. Just like everyone else. Here's something else you may have missed:

"Thanks Usagi for paying this loan back. You had some trouble with this one when a few btcstock exchanges closed down back in oct-nov, but you sorted things out and even paid off the last part of the loan early, thanks." - https://btcjam.com/listings/5938

Don't get trolled ognasty! Check my otc rating.

Anyways, the money will be used for buying stuff online, steam games, ipads, and so forth. I also want to buy a new dog and dog cage, dog food and dog care equipment. I also might buy some more gold and silver, I might buy some music books for my piano.  Not that it changes anything, because the collateral backing the loan has nothing to do with what I want to use it for. But there it is.