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Author Topic: 9-9-9  (Read 3988 times)
NghtRppr
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October 26, 2011, 03:07:14 AM
 #1

So, I pay 9% of $300,000+ a year and you pay 9% of whatever McDonald's is paying these days?
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ineededausername
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October 26, 2011, 03:16:33 AM
 #2

bitcoin2cash: Propose an alternative.

(BFL)^2 < 0
theymos
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October 26, 2011, 03:22:04 AM
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And then you have to pay 9% again when you actually use your earned money. And prices will be higher due to increased production costs.

My dad supported Cain until I told him that 9-9-9 included a 9% sales tax.

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October 26, 2011, 03:29:57 AM
 #4

I like the way one of his competing candidates put it: when you turn this 9-9-9 plan upside down, the devil's in the details.

Companies claiming they got hacked and lost your coins sounds like fraud so perfect it could be called fashionable.  I never believe them.  If I ever experience the misfortune of a real intrusion, I declare I have been honest about the way I have managed the keys in Casascius Coins.  I maintain no ability to recover or reproduce the keys, not even under limitless duress or total intrusion.  Remember that trusting strangers with your coins without any recourse is, as a matter of principle, not a best practice.  Don't keep coins online. Use paper wallets instead.
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October 26, 2011, 03:30:13 AM
 #5

So, I pay 9% of $300,000+ a year and you pay 9% of whatever McDonald's is paying these days?

if you make 6 figures, 9% of your income has way less of an impact on your life than 9% from someone struggling to make ends meet on minimum wage. flat tax overwhelmingly favors the wealthy.

personally, im happy with a progressive tax system like we have now (only i would raise them back to clinton era levels).

not gonna be a popular opinion on this board, but there it is.

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October 26, 2011, 04:53:42 AM
 #6

I've always been...baffled by why deductions exist. They seem like a blatant opening to game the system...they would be first on my list of things to go. Course as far as I'm concerned taxes should die in a fire, but I realize that's not going to happen.

Realistically I'd be pretty happy with pretty progressive income tax, no capital gains, state-set flat sales tax, and a "choose which science projects to fund" checklist.

If I helped, feel free to donate to:
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NghtRppr
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October 26, 2011, 12:36:16 PM
 #7

bitcoin2cash: Propose an alternative.

No taxes. Pay for what you use. Privatize everything.

if you make 6 figures, 9% of your income has way less of an impact on your life than 9% from someone struggling to make ends meet on minimum wage

What you mean to say is that you feel less guilty stealing 9% of someone's money if they have a lot of it.
EhVedadoOAnonimato
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October 26, 2011, 12:57:52 PM
 #8

And then you have to pay 9% again when you actually use your earned money. And prices will be higher due to increased production costs.

My dad supported Cain until I told him that 9-9-9 included a 9% sales tax.

I find VAT and sale taxes "less evil" in their economic consequences than income taxes.
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October 26, 2011, 01:00:17 PM
 #9

And then you have to pay 9% again when you actually use your earned money. And prices will be higher due to increased production costs.

My dad supported Cain until I told him that 9-9-9 included a 9% sales tax.

I find VAT and sale taxes "less evil" in their economic consequences than income taxes.

Sometimes they promise to remove income tax when they bring in a VAT. The really evil part is when they don't and you are left paying income tax and VAT together.

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October 26, 2011, 01:10:21 PM
 #10

bitcoin2cash: Propose an alternative.

No taxes. Pay for what you use. Privatize everything.

...snip...
Didn't we cover that in the fire-fighter thread and agree that some things, for example fire cover, work best if everyone contributes?

EDIT:
personally, I would have allowed the guy to promise to make the $2,000 payment if he really wanted it put out...but a fire company can let a house burn...

One problem with that is that if you do that then it might be the case that nobody will pay until their house is on fire and there won't be any money to maintain the service. It's kind of like the problem with health insurance. If you allow people with pre-existing conditions to join then nobody will join until they are sick.


I.Goldstein
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October 26, 2011, 02:08:05 PM
 #11

The bankers get a far larger share with a VAT implemented and the economics effects are disastrous. I preferred the poor paying no taxes at all. Now they get to suffer and go further into debt. It's depressing.
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October 26, 2011, 02:12:50 PM
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The bankers get a far larger share with a VAT implemented and the economics effects are disastrous. I preferred the poor paying no taxes at all. Now they get to suffer and go further into debt. It's depressing.

The economic affects are not disasterous - the US is unusual in not having a VAT and its hard to argue that the US is better off as a result.  The transfer of the tax burden onto the poor is a fair point though.  In England, the combination of taxes on petrol, drink and tobacco with VAT means that the very poor have the highest effective tax rates.

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October 26, 2011, 02:24:49 PM
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The bankers get a far larger share with a VAT implemented and the economics effects are disastrous. I preferred the poor paying no taxes at all. Now they get to suffer and go further into debt. It's depressing.

The economic affects are not disasterous - the US is unusual in not having a VAT and its hard to argue that the US is better off as a result.  The transfer of the tax burden onto the poor is a fair point though.  In England, the combination of taxes on petrol, drink and tobacco with VAT means that the very poor have the highest effective tax rates.
I would be happy with them regulating and taxing the middle-class and above with no inhibition as along as they left the little guy alone. The freedom of the proletarian is all that's left in this society. To be free to be self-sufficient with minimal means is a right that should still be enjoyed. It's something I would like to enjoy in bad circumstances...
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October 26, 2011, 02:51:47 PM
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What you mean to say is that you feel less guilty stealing 9% of someone's money if they have a lot of it.

no. no i don't. taxes aren't stealing.

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October 26, 2011, 02:59:29 PM
 #15

When a poor man invests in a bicycle to increase his wealth, he's taxed regardless of outcome. When a rich man invests in stocks, he's only taxed if he profits.
FredericBastiat
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October 26, 2011, 03:04:07 PM
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And then you have to pay 9% again when you actually use your earned money. And prices will be higher due to increased production costs.

My dad supported Cain until I told him that 9-9-9 included a 9% sales tax.

I find VAT and sale taxes "less evil" in their economic consequences than income taxes.

How is stealing "less evil" than stealing?

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FredericBastiat
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October 26, 2011, 03:07:10 PM
 #17

The bankers get a far larger share with a VAT implemented and the economics effects are disastrous. I preferred the poor paying no taxes at all. Now they get to suffer and go further into debt. It's depressing.

The economic affects are not disasterous - the US is unusual in not having a VAT and its hard to argue that the US is better off as a result.  The transfer of the tax burden onto the poor is a fair point though.  In England, the combination of taxes on petrol, drink and tobacco with VAT means that the very poor have the highest effective tax rates.
I would be happy with them regulating and taxing the middle-class and above with no inhibition as along as they left the little guy alone. The freedom of the proletarian is all that's left in this society. To be free to be self-sufficient with minimal means is a right that should still be enjoyed. It's something I would like to enjoy in bad circumstances...

Wouldn't it just be better if the government left everybody alone?

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helloworld
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October 26, 2011, 03:10:01 PM
 #18

When a poor man invests in a bicycle to increase his wealth, he's taxed regardless of outcome. When a rich man invests in stocks, he's only taxed if he profits.

But when a rich man invests in a really expensive bicycle, he's taxed regardless. And when a poor man invests $12.62 in penny stocks, he's only taxed if he profits.

FredericBastiat
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October 26, 2011, 03:13:25 PM
 #19


What you mean to say is that you feel less guilty stealing 9% of someone's money if they have a lot of it.

no. no i don't. taxes aren't stealing.



Despite whatever privilege you think your government has, if someone (regardless of their title) comes to you and demands that you relinquish your property to them when they have no contract with you to do so, is coercion and plunder. Look thru the veil of obfuscation for a moment and step back and take a bird's-eye view of it. Now imagine you and two other people in the room with you. They could form a government. Why on earth should they ever have any greater permission to relieve you of your property than anybody else in the room?

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1F7venVKJa5CLw6qehjARkXBS55DU5YT59
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October 26, 2011, 03:19:08 PM
 #20


What you mean to say is that you feel less guilty stealing 9% of someone's money if they have a lot of it.

no. no i don't. taxes aren't stealing.



Despite whatever privilege you think your government has, if someone (regardless of their title) comes to you and demands that you relinquish your property to them when they have no contract with you to do so, is coercion and plunder. Look thru the veil of obfuscation for a moment and step back and take a bird's-eye view of it. Now imagine you and two other people in the room with you. They could form a government. Why on earth should they ever have any greater permission to relieve you of your property than anybody else in the room?

Welcome back Fred.  Still not worked out the whole society concept I see.  Just to remind you, people do get together and act for their common good.  The action requires money.  Taxation is the mechanism used to pay for it.  You continue to make the confusion that if you think the spending is wrong, then the tax must be wrong too. 

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