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Author Topic: are there speed-differences between Pools?  (Read 3060 times)
Jessi
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October 29, 2011, 12:08:09 PM
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I have got a question about the mining-speed.
If I have a for example a 2000Mhs-computer (3x6990) and I am connected to a single pool, could it be that I am mining with lower (or faster) speed than on other pools?

At the Moment I am connected to Slushs but I only receive during last weeks about 1 BTC / day. But on Bitcoin-Calculator it shows me, that I should receive about 1.4 BTC/day.
I also mine Namecoins. Could it be that this is slowing me down, or could it be that this pool is finally slower than other pools are?

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slush
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October 29, 2011, 12:38:15 PM
 #2

> could it be that I am mining with lower (or faster) speed than on other pools?

Teoretically no, if there aren't another issues.

> I only receive during last weeks about 1 BTC / day

Did you counted two DDoS attacks during last two weeks? Also yesterday was pretty crappy day with few long rounds, but it sometimes happen.

> Could it be that this is slowing me down

Definitely not.

My questions:
a) Do you see any connection issues?
b) What's your stale rate?
Edit: c) Which miner do you use? Latest one with LP support, ideally poclbm?

Only those two things actually matter. The rest is just a luck.

ad c) Some versions of phoenix are working really weird on some connections. For example latest phoenix has something like 40% of stale on one of my miner, without any obvious reason. But poclbm is rock solid everywhere and additionally it (correctly) supports NTime rolling, which is pretty nice feature for optimizing network communication.

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October 29, 2011, 12:41:17 PM
 #3

Payout depends on many things. Bigger pool = more blocks solved in time. The more people the smaller the profit (per block... thanks Slush). In a mid- sized pool you earn more but you get paid out less frequent. Try out other pools. Join the darkside (Bitminter  Cheesy Wink)

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October 29, 2011, 12:43:13 PM
 #4

The more people the smaller the profit.

Bullshit.

In bigger pool you have lower reward PER ROUND, but you have more rounds in time. The reward per day/week should be absolutely the same.

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October 29, 2011, 12:48:03 PM
 #5

Have i told something else ?

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October 29, 2011, 12:50:49 PM
 #6

Have i told something else ?

Yes, this:

Quote
The more people the smaller the profit. In a mid- sized pool you earn more but you get paid out less frequent.

This leads to idea that mining on smaller pools is more profitable, which is wrong. The profit per time should be the same. Who care about per-round reward? It's only good feeling that you have bigger part of each block, but it does not affect anything else.

Sorry if I only understand you wrong, my English language skills are sometimes limited Smiley

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October 29, 2011, 12:54:57 PM
 #7

Was bad written. What you wrote is clear to me (correct).  Kiss

Edit: My english is also very limited. German is my native language

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October 29, 2011, 02:02:54 PM
 #8

I have got a question about the mining-speed.
If I have a for example a 2000Mhs-computer (3x6990) and I am connected to a single pool, could it be that I am mining with lower (or faster) speed than on other pools?

At the Moment I am connected to Slushs but I only receive during last weeks about 1 BTC / day. But on Bitcoin-Calculator it shows me, that I should receive about 1.4 BTC/day.
I also mine Namecoins. Could it be that this is slowing me down, or could it be that this pool is finally slower than other pools are?

your speed is your speed as slush said, what will make a difference to your earnings is what different pools do with taking fees, paying out or not TXN with blocks and any bonuses they are offering at the time Smiley

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Meni Rosenfeld
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October 29, 2011, 04:24:13 PM
 #9

The profit per time should be the same.
You should emphasize that it is the average profit per time that is the same. All else being equal, larger pools have the advantage of less variance.

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October 29, 2011, 04:28:25 PM
 #10

Meni, you're right. Usually I'm adding my favourite "long term" clause into sentences, however I forgot to do it now :-).

likuidxd
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October 29, 2011, 04:54:08 PM
 #11

Join a SMPPS pool ( like ars  Wink ) with no fee. No need to be "lucky" you get paid for all valid shares.

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October 29, 2011, 05:09:07 PM
 #12

Join a SMPPS pool ( like ars  Wink ) with no fee. No need to be "lucky" you get paid for all valid shares.
SMPPS is a broken method as I discuss in Analysis of Bitcoin pooled mining reward systems (work in progress).

If you really don't want variance use a true PPS pool, though I don't think there are any good ones right now. Also check out Summary of mining pool reward systems if you're shopping for a reward system.

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October 29, 2011, 08:18:47 PM
 #13

Eclipse is the best one for a fair reward system that's not PPS. Smiley

If you're searching these lines for a point, you've probably missed it.  There was never anything there in the first place.
racerguy
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October 29, 2011, 08:37:14 PM
 #14

problem with pps pools is it costs nothing for the blockfinder to withhold his block(besides having to wait longer to get paid).  I haven't heard of that happening but it's possible.
Meni Rosenfeld
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October 29, 2011, 09:16:11 PM
 #15

problem with pps pools is it costs nothing for the blockfinder to withhold his block(besides having to wait longer to get paid).  I haven't heard of that happening but it's possible.
I think you're talking about SMPPS which is completely different from PPS. And no, that's not the main problem with either.

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Jessi
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October 30, 2011, 12:42:36 PM
 #16

Hmm, anyway if there are no differences between pool-speed finally (after 2-4 weeks 24-7 mining for example), why do I not earn about that, what Bitcoin-Calculator says? There are about 30% difference. I am mining with Linuxcoin / Smartcoin and the software is telling me that my speed is about 2000-2100 MHs...
Is it because of mining Namecoin at the same Moment or what could be the reason for this?

What is about pools like DeepBit.net? They pay for invalid shares, too. Does this not result in more Bitcoins / Month?

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Meni Rosenfeld
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October 30, 2011, 12:59:26 PM
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Hmm, anyway if there are no differences between pool-speed finally (after 2-4 weeks 24-7 mining for example), why do I not earn about that, what Bitcoin-Calculator says? There are about 30% difference. I am mining with Linuxcoin / Smartcoin and the software is telling me that my speed is about 2000-2100 MHs...
Is it because of mining Namecoin at the same Moment or what could be the reason for this?

What is about pools like DeepBit.net? They pay for invalid shares, too. Does this not result in more Bitcoins / Month?
The calculator can show you the average payment in optimal conditions, but there's variance based on the pool's luck and there are occasional problems. slush clearly explained that there was both a DDoS attack and bad pool luck.

There are many other factors that could affect your rewards, such as pool-hopping and various pool features. Paying for invalid shares is nice, but probably doesn't make up for the high fee and hopping.

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October 30, 2011, 01:21:48 PM
 #18

Hmm, anyway if there are no differences between pool-speed finally (after 2-4 weeks 24-7 mining for example), why do I not earn about that, what Bitcoin-Calculator says? There are about 30% difference.

It's probably just variance. As other posters mentioned, smaller pools have an increased payout variance - you're putting more eggs (shares) into one basket (round).

A faster pool means shares are spread across more rounds, so 'luck' plays a smaller part. A slower pool means shares are concentrated into fewer rounds. So if you have good luck for a few rounds, you have a great payout. Bad luck means a poor payout. Since the smaller pools have a lower hashrate, a run of long rounds could mean poor payouts for weeks.

Or you could use a mining proxy and spread your shares around as many pools as you can, which (if you ignore variance caused by the payout method) will reduce your payout 'luck' (good or bad) by a much greater degree.

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October 30, 2011, 03:57:04 PM
 #19

Join a SMPPS pool ( like ars  Wink ) with no fee. No need to be "lucky" you get paid for all valid shares.
SMPPS is a broken method as I discuss in Analysis of Bitcoin pooled mining reward systems (work in progress).

If you really don't want variance use a true PPS pool, though I don't think there are any good ones right now. Also check out Summary of mining pool reward systems if you're shopping for a reward system.

Yes , you have been predicting Ars's demise for quite a while  but to those that are there for the last few  months its EXACTLY the same as PPS as far as amount of payout ( and 0% fee as well).  If a very long spell of bad luck comes  their way ( and you predict that eventually it will) and the buffer goes negative ,and a person has no patience- he can leave with maybe a small loss  ( much smaller than all the fees that would have been paid elsewhere)

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October 30, 2011, 06:58:33 PM
 #20

Hmm, anyway if there are no differences between pool-speed finally (after 2-4 weeks 24-7 mining for example), why do I not earn about that, what Bitcoin-Calculator says? There are about 30% difference. I am mining with Linuxcoin / Smartcoin and the software is telling me that my speed is about 2000-2100 MHs...
Is it because of mining Namecoin at the same Moment or what could be the reason for this?

What is about pools like DeepBit.net? They pay for invalid shares, too. Does this not result in more Bitcoins / Month?

What is 2-4 weeks?  You either have stats for 2 weeks or 4 weeks.  Using term like 2-4 weeks makes me think you are using guestimates.

In the long run you will achieve the EV (expected value) of the calculator minus fees minus downtime minus stales.  However 2 weeks is rather short period.

On larger scales people have tracked the entire pool payout vs expected value and for Slush and many other pools payouts are within statistical norms.  What you experienced was variance or luck.  It can be "good" or "bad" but in the long run your payout with be aproach EV.

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