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Author Topic: Successful Test of Cold Fusion Device - Customer (DARPA?) pays 2 million$.  (Read 6845 times)
Mageant
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October 29, 2011, 09:33:39 PM
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Rossi's cold fusion device, also known as "E-Cat", has been successfully tested to a mystery group who bought it for at least 2 million$. Speculation is that the customer was DARPA. Also, an AP reporter was present so we can also expect an report from AP on this test within the next few days.

http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2011-10/29/rossi-success
http://pesn.com/2011/10/28/9501940_1_MW_E-Cat_Test_Successful/
http://peswiki.com/index.php/News:October_28,_2011_Test_of_the_One_Megawatt_E-Cat

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ElectricMucus
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October 29, 2011, 09:42:22 PM
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As far as I have been able to figure out these kind of devices do not work on the principle of fusion or any transmutation of elements but a different phenomena.

Whenever they really work idk but something about it reminds me of the steorn folks.
Anybody remember them? Yeah they the ones with the full page ad in the NYT, iirc the hype spike on google trends is still unprecedented.  Wink

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they keep laughing, then they start choking on their laughter, and then they go and catch their breath. Then they start laughing even more.
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October 29, 2011, 09:59:07 PM
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The science is more H2 reaction ion stuff rather than "cold fusion", but I've been watching this story for a while and waiting patiently to see if it is a big scam or something worthwhile - time will tell.
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October 29, 2011, 10:41:51 PM
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sign me up!

Vladimir
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October 29, 2011, 10:45:24 PM
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it's one of those "too good to be true" things IMO

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ribuck
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October 29, 2011, 11:02:02 PM
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As far as I have been able to figure out these kind of devices do not work ...
Precisely.

People, use your critical thinking faculties.

All we have is Rossi's own claim that his customer is satisfied enough to buy the device. During the demonstration, they didn't even disconnect the external power cable, which is supposedly only needed while the device is being started up. If the device really worked, they would have been happy to disconnect the external power supply.

[edit: it seems they didn't even turn the diesel generator off during this so-called test!]
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October 29, 2011, 11:24:35 PM
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I have to admit I'm still skeptical but it is pretty impressive that actual physicists are still giving him the benefit of the doubt. It seems more and more that there is reason to believe that Pons and Fleischmann were on to something. It is just still not clear exactly what.

The way they are going about things does make it seem fishy, but after the fast fall of their predecessors I can understand their sensitivity to early over exposure.

And as for the generator staying on... as we saw in Japan, with nuclear reactions sometimes bad things happen when the power goes off! If they really were generating 470 Kwh of heat in that little shipping container something needed to circulate the water and vent that heat outside. The system itself was not generating electricity. It was only generating heat.
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October 30, 2011, 02:19:48 AM
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Here's the Bologna video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9I_CJti-RU
worldinacoin
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October 30, 2011, 02:20:59 AM
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470 KWh for $2 million, I guess I will burn coal Smiley
PatrickHarnett
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October 30, 2011, 08:35:19 PM
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470 KWh for $2 million, I guess I will burn coal Smiley

No, the design was 1000kW for $2M.  Coal is about $1000/kW plus fuel costs (depending on currency).  Hydro power works out closer to $4000/kW and wind $1500/kW - these are for industrial/large scale installations.

Don't confuse capacity and output. 

Having read the early reports, it's still in the highly skeptical range of devices.  First time one gets into the hands of "public" for real testing will prove or burst the bubble.
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October 30, 2011, 09:28:44 PM
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Just curious. Where did you get those figures?

I agree with your skepticism, but if there is anything to his reaction, he already claims to have reproduced it 1000 times. (three hundred little cases in that shipping container. Each with three reactors.) repeatability would be the real breakthrough.
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October 30, 2011, 09:59:30 PM
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... he already claims to have reproduced it 1000 times ...
And this is precisely why I don't believe him.

Rossi made a big deal about how he has scaled this thing up from a few kilowatts to a megawatt. This is a typical magician's misdirection. If this thing worked as advertised, the kilowatt device would be earth-shattering. Simply aggregating some of these into the megawatt device would not be such a big deal.

An honest "black-box demo" of the small unit would be straightforward to provide and would silence all the skeptics. If Rossi is not prepared to isolate the power inputs from the experiment, I can't take him seriously.
ribuck
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October 30, 2011, 10:03:07 PM
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... If they really were generating 470 Kwh of heat in that little shipping container something needed to circulate the water and vent that heat outside
A simple pipe can vent 470kW of steam without difficulty, and a simple pipe can deliver cold water. With a 1MW electrical generator running, I can easily produce 470kW of steam with simple resistive elements.
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October 30, 2011, 10:26:56 PM
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Now I'm not saying he is not a scammer. Normally I would say that without a doubt he is. But I keep stumbling on more and more instances of people claiming to produce excess heat using similar experiments.
http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-18560_162-4952167.html

There was a documentary linked about the inventor. I clearly pointed out that he has done unsuccessful, almost scam like, things in the past. But there are also interviews with others purported to be swiss (swede?) experts in the field. They seem convinced something is happening.

I saw your comments on venting heat. You very well could be right. I was thinking of it as a metal box containing 4,700 hundred watt lightbulbs. That makes one hell of an Easy Bake Oven!

The following pretty much sums up my feelings on the subject.
http://xkcd.com/955/


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October 31, 2011, 12:03:51 AM
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Just curious. Where did you get those figures?

Generation cost number come from my day job - but they are around in various published reports.  You local energy regulator probably has them in some form on their web site.

The big thing to note is Rossi hopes to have small scale units available for $100 per kW, or just 5% of conventional generation capacity.
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October 31, 2011, 03:28:30 AM
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Thanks!

The big thing to note is Rossi hopes to have small scale units available for $100 per kW, or just 5% of conventional generation capacity.

I know! It would be pretty game changing. I really want someone to talk me out of getting my hopes up. I'm usually pretty pessimistic about such things.

The odd (talking out my ass) pattern I keep reading is physicists speculating about nano-scale atomic geometries having something to do with these reactions. (Lattices and so forth.) I can't say I really understand any of it at a deep level. But there has already been lots of nano-engineering research lately. (Graphene, nano-tubules, atomic-scale motors) Geometrically, it all seems pretty basic so far. But if someone can come up with a theory of how atomic geometries of nickel facilitate nuclear reactions (or paladium etc.), that ability to push atoms into regular patterns could really start to get useful fast.
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October 31, 2011, 04:04:32 AM
 #17

I don't see how any sort of "catalyst" can fuse two or more protons together. Until proven otherwise, I will keep believing that the only thing inside those hot foil wrapped tubes are just hot baked potatoes. That way my hopes won't be shattered too much if it turns out not to be potatoes (even if I do really love baked potatoes).

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October 31, 2011, 05:07:33 AM
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What is for research may take a very long time before it can translate into part of our daily lives.
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October 31, 2011, 05:16:25 AM
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I don't see how any sort of "catalyst" can fuse two or more protons together. Until proven otherwise, I will keep believing that the only thing inside those hot foil wrapped tubes are just hot baked potatoes. That way my hopes won't be shattered too much if it turns out not to be potatoes (even if I do really love baked potatoes).

To me, it looks like the whole machine could fit on a coffee table. You didn't, by chance, loan it to anyone, did you Rassah? That sure the hell would explain how the heat was generated.
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October 31, 2011, 05:22:32 AM
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So someone claims to have discovered cold fusion, and their first thought isn't to fly to Norway to flaunt it to the Noble Prize committee?

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