Before you give merit to a newly-demoted newbie...

[MagicSmoker]

...please make sure their post history is not filled with 1-2 line replies in spam megathreads (or bounty reports, of course).

For example, Delphinus awarded crocus a merit point to get him out of newbie hell after reviewing his post history:

Here you go. I've gone through your post history. You're posts aren't perfect, but it's pretty clear you're a real account with a long post history of on-topic comments.
Definitely deserve to be a jr. member 

Wow I've got merit thanks sir for checking my post history, I will post more quality post to have a great and helpful community.

While crocus can string together words into an intelligible sentence or two, most, if not all, of his/her replies are merely rehashing what a thousand other people (or bots) have said on the hundreds of other pages in these spam megathreads.

[1715124209]

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[1715124209]

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[1715124209]

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[1715124209]

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[1715124209]

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[r1s2g3]

---snip---

And now the chase begin. Even a single Merit counts..

[dat.ho12492]

I understand what you say, the rewards are only for those that really deserve it but I do not think you can recognize those people because the attention of senior members for newbies is too little. However, after the story and this change, I hope that you or Delphinus, even more people should pay more attention to the contribution of the newbie and help them out of hell.
That's just my opinion, you have to ignore it also okay because I'm just a newbie:)

[The Sceptical Chymist]

I got made a merit source this morning, which was a bit of a surprise since I hadn't ever applied to be one and have stated multiple times that I didn't want to be one.  However, since Theymos has seen fit to saddle me with the responsibility, I'll accept it and take it seriously.

However, I don't plan to give merits to any old Newbie just for a typical crappy post, i.e., I don't plan to lower the standards that I've always had.  What I do plan on doing is finding low-ranked members who actually deserve merits, and I'll pay more attention to noob posts when I see them.

Theymos wants these noobs merited even if their posts are just "good".  Fortunately we all have different definitions of the word "good" and in my opinion that's the standard I've always tried to uphold.  I just happen to have high standards when it comes to what's good.  I'll be on the lookout for good posts, as I'm sure all the new and old merit sources will be.  We've got more sMerits to play with, so I don't think this is going to be as bad as it looks in the first 24 hours of the change.

newbie hell

I like that.  I think I'm going to use that in the future.

[Veleor]

And now the chase begin. Even a single Merit counts..

With the requirement of 3 or 5 merit to rank up to Jr Member it would be more difficult for cheaters to abuse merit.

[hilariousetc]

Yeah, users who's entire post history is just one/two liners probably don't deserve merit because they're just putting in the bare minimum to appear like they're not spamming and contributing, but they are spamming and contribute very little. I agree with one merit to become Junior but we should also remove Junior's signatures. Requiring ten merit to become a Member and get a sig would really sort the wheat from the chaff here. Far too easy to beg, buy or trade one merit and this will become rife. Ten is a much different ball game and becomes exponentially more difficult the more accounts you have.

[Jet Cash]

>..<

I've just given you a couple of merits, and that will do for my awards until all the new merit threads have died down or been consolidated.

I'll spend some of today taking photos to start my new image hosting site to help  newbies and juniors to make decent posts, and let them use links instead of images in their posts.

[MagicSmoker]

I understand what you say, the rewards are only for those that really deserve it but I do not think you can recognize those people because the attention of senior members for newbies is too little....

I have gone out of my way to award the first merit to many users here, but every single time I check the user's post history to make sure I am not incentivizing a bounty hunter or sig campaign spammer.

Unfortunately, looking at your post history shows you to be the type of person I am warning about with this thread. For example:

Reply #609 in "already lost 50% of my capital": https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2481636.msg45372668#msg45372668

Reply #228 in "100 USD enough to start trading": https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5010432.msg45372096#msg45372096

Reply #372 in "Bitcoin holders will have to pay tax?": https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4517779.msg45371426#msg45371426

Etc. and so on.

[LoyceV]

Reply #609 in "already lost 50% of my capital": https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2481636.msg45372668#msg45372668

Reply #228 in "100 USD enough to start trading": https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5010432.msg45372096#msg45372096

Reply #372 in "Bitcoin holders will have to pay tax?": https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4517779.msg45371426#msg45371426

Delphinus is on a roll
The good thing is, he'll soon run out of sMerit . At least the new restrictions changed Jr. Member spam from an unlimited problem to a restricted problem.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

I have gone out of my way to award the first merit to many users here, but every single time I check the user's post history to make sure I am not incentivizing a bounty hunter or sig campaign spammer.

That's a good way to go about it I think. 

I just gave a merit to alanst in another thread, a member who's basically brand new.  Normally I would not have done that, but he demonstrated that his command of the English language was pretty good and his post was organized and to the point.  I can't imagine he'll somehow turn into a typical bounty spammer unless he sells the account to one.

Theymos wants a little relaxing of standards if I understood him correctly, but I'm not going for that in the case of new members especially.  I will keep an open mind about all of this, but I don't intend to help any shitposters to rank up.  The good thing is that most of them couldn't write a decent post if they spent all day on it.  It just isn't in them.

[dat.ho12492]

I understand what you say, the rewards are only for those that really deserve it but I do not think you can recognize those people because the attention of senior members for newbies is too little....

I have gone out of my way to award the first merit to many users here, but every single time I check the user's post history to make sure I am not incentivizing a bounty hunter or sig campaign spammer.

Unfortunately, looking at your post history shows you to be the type of person I am warning about with this thread. For example:

Reply #609 in "already lost 50% of my capital": https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2481636.msg45372668#msg45372668

Reply #228 in "100 USD enough to start trading": https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5010432.msg45372096#msg45372096

Reply #372 in "Bitcoin holders will have to pay tax?": https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4517779.msg45371426#msg45371426

Etc. and so on.

I do not deny that sometimes my opinions seem to be just rubbish in your eyes but I still want to say that I am human, I can not work perfectly every day, and of course, mistakes are things that I can not avoid but at least I try and try. And you should empathize for me, instead of trying to find all the wrong bugs and then judge me, from the beginning, you are still not as perfect as I am in the present but over time, you will improve and enhance everything.
That's the crux of the matter, looking at things with a more objective perspective, buddy

[Welsh]

Yeah, some due diligence is needed. The thing is they might make a really good post that would normally deserve some merit, but once they've received that merit they are just going to fall into old habits, and spam again because they've got their goal, and can continue earning via bounties.

[MagicSmoker]

I got made a merit source this morning, which was a bit of a surprise since I hadn't ever applied to be one and have stated multiple times that I didn't want to be one.

Heh - just like the only people that should run for political office are those that don't want to. Or another favorite cliche of mine, "no good deed goes unpunished!"

newbie hell

I like that.  I think I'm going to use that in the future.

It doesn't have quite the same ring to it as, "haiku bot," but no copyright is claimed here either!


*   *   *

...I agree with one merit to become Junior but we should also remove Junior's signatures. Requiring ten merit to become a Member and get a sig would really sort the wheat from the chaff here.
...

Aye, requiring even more merit to become a Jr. Member and/or before a sig can be displayed would be even better, but this is better than nothing and I daresay will tremendously reduce the spam problem. Also, by implementing this new restriction ~8 months after the merit system was introduced pretty much all of the airdropped sMerit have been spent, as evidenced by the recent posts of coinlocket and the other statistics whizzes. So, nefarious merit trading should be less of an issue now than it would have been back in late January.


*   *   *

I've just given you a couple of merits, and that will do for my awards until all the new merit threads have died down or been consolidated.

Hah! It's always nice to receive recognition from you cantankerous old curmudgeons, but this thread really is just a Public Service Announcement.


*   *   *

Delphinus is on a roll
The good thing is, he'll soon run out of sMerit . At least the new restrictions changed Jr. Member spam from an unlimited problem to a restricted problem.

Well, that sort of disproves what I just said to hilariousetc above... 

[The Sceptical Chymist]

Yeah, some due diligence is needed. The thing is they might make a really good post that would normally deserve some merit, but once they've received that merit they are just going to fall into old habits, and spam again because they've got their goal, and can continue earning via bounties.

Agree 100%.  I'm already seeing some questionable posts from demoted noobs being merited, and I think all merit sources new and old should be a little less trigger happy.  I understand Theymos wants the sources to be somewhat liberal with their sMerits, but some of these posts are just bloated messes like this one.  Then again, I don't know if chillcott got made a merit source or what the story is there.  He could not be a source, he could be an alt, he could be a friend. 

Whatever it is, though, that post sucked IMO.  People often mistake post length for post quality, and that is NOT the case.

[MagicSmoker]

...some of these posts are just bloated messes like this one. ...

And not a single punctuation mark was to be found...  

Welp, I waded into the mess with Delphinus on theymos' thread after seeing LoyceV linked to this one, so the argument has come... wait for it... full circle!  <rimshot!>


EDIT: I have no idea why I thought full circle was funny... Maybe that the arguments are going in circles without getting anywhere. Case in point:

Well, there are some people, like me for example, which are trying to contribute to the forum as per our knowledge, surely I'm not an expert of anything but whatever I have learned, I try to reply based on that.

Till now, I have joined only one airdrop in which no report posting was necessary. No crap in my post history. I seriously ask you, where should I post and what should I post which will be noticed by seniors and maybe they'll reward me with merits?

I seriously want to get at least 10 merits so that I could become a member in this forum and I'm ready to work hard for those merits. Just need some guidance from experts.

You have been posting almost exclusively in spam megathreads, and I wonder if you even read the first post in this thread before replying?!?

See, for example, post #2167 (2167!!!) in a thread on "top 5 altcoins": https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2406729.msg45674706#msg45674706

I'll not waste more time digging up additional examples.

[poonampawan]

Yeah, some due diligence is needed. The thing is they might make a really good post that would normally deserve some merit, but once they've received that merit they are just going to fall into old habits, and spam again because they've got their goal, and can continue earning via bounties.

Well, there are some people, like me for example, which are trying to contribute to the forum as per our knowledge, surely I'm not an expert of anything but whatever I have learned, I try to reply based on that.

Till now, I have joined only one airdrop in which no report posting was necessary. No crap in my post history. I seriously ask you, where should I post and what should I post which will be noticed by seniors and maybe they'll reward me with merits?

I seriously want to get at least 10 merits so that I could become a member in this forum and I'm ready to work hard for those merits. Just need some guidance from experts.

[cabalism13]

I'll pay more attention to noob posts when I see them.

Oh pardon me SIR will you give me Merits for I'm just a NOOB I hope you consider I wish you more power GOD BLESS YOU

Just need some guidance from experts.

You don't need any mate. Just enhance your capabilities and knowledge and that would do the work on giving you some Merits that you need.
As I have read from somewhere here before also comes from a newbie here...

You will be getting a merit as soon as you'll stop looking for it. Just start helping instead of complaining and it will come.

And just look at that, he was given a Merit on his second post without a sweat.

[Delphinus]

I feel that I should probably make an appearance here, since I'm mentioned in the first post.

Let me start off by saying I respect everyone's opinion and understand their reasoning for not agreeing with me. Based on the reactions I'm getting, my view of Bitcointalk is potentially not even aligned with Theymos. However, I am not a merit source so I do feel I can grant my (limited) merits based on my own values.

My opinion is that quality is important, but that the merit sources are to strict for some non-native speakers. Most expect lengthy posts in fluent English, related to Bitcoin. In my view, this leaves an important group of non-native, less eloquent, visitors who will never be able to gather any merits. These members do not deserve to become Legendary members, but I don't think that jr. membership is overrating their contributions. They are ensuring I have new posts to read when I come online, trying to contribute to the best of their abilities.

Of course I excluded posters specifically farming for merit, only participating in bounty campaigns etc. What we're talking about are the users that write 2-4 sentence replies in non-fluent English, under relevant posts on a regular basis. My feeling is that these members do deserve jr. membership after making hundreds of relevant, non-eloquent, posts.

As a result of the previous discussions, people seem to think I'm devaluing merits by doing so. The good news is I only had 5 to give away. I don't think the merit system will collapse because of me but I have made 5 people very happy today. That gives me plenty of offline merit to be able to do something like that for someone  

[cuurtissss]

I got made a merit source this morning, which was a bit of a surprise since I hadn't ever applied to be one and have stated multiple times that I didn't want to be one.  However, since Theymos has seen fit to saddle me with the responsibility, I'll accept it and take it seriously.

However, I don't plan to give merits to any old Newbie just for a typical crappy post, i.e., I don't plan to lower the standards that I've always had.  What I do plan on doing is finding low-ranked members who actually deserve merits, and I'll pay more attention to noob posts when I see them.

Theymos wants these noobs merited even if their posts are just "good".  Fortunately we all have different definitions of the word "good" and in my opinion that's the standard I've always tried to uphold.  I just happen to have high standards when it comes to what's good.  I'll be on the lookout for good posts, as I'm sure all the new and old merit sources will be.  We've got more sMerits to play with, so I don't think this is going to be as bad as it looks in the first 24 hours of the change.

newbie hell

I like that.  I think I'm going to use that in the future.

Careful what we wish for, since meritocratic systems focus on rewarding type which, in turn, forces people to compete for relative position or advantage.

I wouldn't be surprised if the newly anointed "merit sources" start to face a deluge of competing, yet compelling (to them), posts appealing to their personal post allegiances.

--
A system that measures people on relative as opposed to absolute performance is quite likely to be very time consuming indeed for our merit sources.

An analogy is that of everyone at a stadium standing to get a better view. While individually rational, this is wasteful for the group as a whole. When everyone decides (rationally) to put in more resources for the positional good (a better view), relative positions are unchanged but everyone "spends more" just to maintain their relative position. Meritocracy is a good system but it sure ain't perfect

[coinlocket$]

Agree read carefull the post history of users, and look even if they copy paste what they wrote, now finally we have a small but powerfull tool don't ruin it on day 1.

I got made a merit source this morning, which was a bit of a surprise since I hadn't ever applied to be one and have stated multiple times that I didn't want to be one.  However, since Theymos has seen fit to saddle me with the responsibility, I'll accept it and take it seriously.
~

Congrats, you are the best users here! Active and cares about the community!