Was Satoshi Nakamoto visionless?

[seoincorporation]

I'm not sure if satoshi makes bitcoin as an alternative payment system, or with the intention to create the best and most used payment system, but this second option is impossible by the bitcoin nature and i will explain why.

If bitcoin want to become the #1 transactions and payment system it would have to be really more powerfull. If we compare the daily transactions banks vs daily transactions bitcoins, then you will understand why i call satoshi visionless:

Mastercard maintains 99.999 % availability and can process 3.4 billion transactions per day at 38,000+ transactions per second, with an average response time of 140 milliseconds….

Visa is at 24,000 TPS

https://www.quora.com/How-many-transactions-do-typical-banks-process-everyday

TPS: Transactions Per Second.

While bitcoin have blocks each 10 minutes with 2500 transactions aprox, that give us an averange of 4 TPS.

We are far away to compete with banks, bitcoin by it self is not able to handle all the transactions the world have, so, maybe is good time to think about the next steps, and get some big goal like substitute banks with btc. But no one say it would be easy 

[1714660966]

1714660966

[franky1]

banks lock in funds and they have control of the funds. they can freeze your account, make you wait 3-5 days to send a wire. chargeback, etc.. many issues

LN is a separate network from bitcoin and is a proposed solution. but being a separate network it need. locking in funds, counterparty control. the counterpart can go offline thus freezing your funds. makes you wait before you can close a channel without penalty.. they can chargeback(revocation) and the destination needs to be online as well as all the middle men inbetween to all using the payment is done. .
oh and you will need to have multiple channels(accounts) splitting your funds up as a way to mitigate risk of lack of routing. meaning many onchan tx's/outpt bytes to deposit into each.... thus many issues

again LN is not a bitcoin feature but its own separate network.

a good solution for those screaming:
"bitcoin is broke it doesnt scale"
"bitcoin is broke it cant pay for coffee on bitcoin"
is this

imagine LN concept of preplanning spending and moving funds in before spending... but without LN. no need to lock funds up into coparty accounts(channels) who can go offline before spending your money. no need to have multiple channels where your funds are spread.

instead
you simply preplan spending habits.
you simply pay starbucks a months worth of coffee onchain, in one transaction. and they update starbucks app with a month of coffee credit. job done

[pitiflin]

I'm not sure if satoshi makes bitcoin as an alternative payment system, or with the intention to create the best and most used payment system, but this second option is impossible by the bitcoin nature and i will explain why.

I think bitcoin wasn't meant to be the best and most used payment system. Because the supply is limited, so that was never truly the case. It was meant to be an alternative, obviously.

If bitcoin want to become the #1 transactions and payment system it would have to be really more powerfull. If we compare the daily transactions banks vs daily transactions bitcoins, then you will understand why i call satoshi visionless:

Mastercard maintains 99.999 % availability and can process 3.4 billion transactions per day at 38,000+ transactions per second, with an average response time of 140 milliseconds….

Visa is at 24,000 TPS

https://www.quora.com/How-many-transactions-do-typical-banks-process-everyday

TPS: Transactions Per Second.

While bitcoin have blocks each 10 minutes with 2500 transactions aprox, that give us an averange of 4 TPS.

We are far away to compete with banks, bitcoin by it self is not able to handle all the transactions the world have, so, maybe is good time to think about the next steps, and get some big goal like substitute banks with btc. But no one say it would be easy 

We aren't competing with banks, not for now at least. Visa is a payment processing system,bitcoin is a crypto currency. Big difference there. There are more debit cards than bitcoins, note that I didn't even mention credit cards. Satoshi wasn't visionless exactly, but he shouldn't have left bitcoin thin and dry. He should have been active, devote his time to his best creation. But his privacy was more important to him.

[First77]

$400 billion business deals between Russia and China in 2014 and $350 billion business deals between Saudi Arabia and USA were done by bank-wire transfers [digital payments]. Gold maybe involved.

[First77]

"I'm sure that in 20 years there will either be very large transaction volume or no volume." -- Nakamato Satoshi

[pooya87]

I'm not sure if satoshi makes bitcoin as an alternative payment system, or with the intention to create the best and most used payment system, but this second option is impossible by the bitcoin nature and i will explain why.

if you are looking for something perfect without any downsides and 0 problems then don't look for it in this universe. what you are seeking is not found anywhere but in an alternate universe!
what we have is imperfect systems that we try to turn into a better system as best as we are capable of. sometimes you have to give up some things to gain some others. if you centralized things you can have the same TPS and even more than Mastercard's. but when you want decentralization you have to think about preserving that as best as you can when it comes to on-chain transactions. then we have other solutions for TPS such as Lightning Network which will give you that TPS that you so hope for.

[Janation]

"I'm sure that in 20 years there will either be very large transaction volume or no volume." -- Nakamato Satoshi

This is the proof that Satoshi Nakamoto himself has a vision to Bitcoin. We don't know what will he be doing in the future with it since he immediately make his exit in the scene of cryptocurrencies.

I think theres also the reason why Ver made another Bitcoin fork is to follow the vision of Satoshi Nakamoto to Bitcoin.

[Sinone]

I don't think Bitcoin was visionless, because I have read an article that Satoshi said, Bitcoin can go to sky high otherwise it will vanish. Though it was not a vision but still he thought bitcoin can go sky high! We are not competing with the banks. and why should we? Bitcoin and banks are different, We need both. One day bitcoin can vanish if countries continue banning this coin but banking system will not vanish ever.

[ksupriya94]

You are right but keep a look on International transaction. Bank takes usually 1 to 3 days in international transaction but with bitcoin you can transfer funds within few times. For these transactions bank ask you for so many formalities but bitcoin there is no such formalities. For these transactions bitcoin is best options instead of banking.

[kawetsriyanto]

"I'm sure that in 20 years there will either be very large transaction volume or no volume." -- Nakamato Satoshi

This is the proof that Satoshi Nakamoto himself has a vision to Bitcoin. We don't know what will he be doing in the future with it since he immediately make his exit in the scene of cryptocurrencies.
I think theres also the reason why Ver made another Bitcoin fork is to follow the vision of Satoshi Nakamoto to Bitcoin.

If I learn what Satoshi ever said about a vision to Bitcoin above, he certainly has a big plan by creating the Bitcoin. He said "large transaction volume or no volume". It should be a very serious thing to know. Another Bitcoin fork may indicate the next plan. However, I am very enthusiastic to wait for another big surprise in Bitcoin and in crypto world as a whole.     

[Kakmakr]

Satoshi showed more vision than everyone anticipated. He started out with small block sizes and he made provision for "block size" increases as and when it was needed. <That is vision>

He also knew that oversized block sizes was overkill, so he kept it small from the start, to prevent the Blockchain from being spammed with unnecessary junk! It needed to grow with adoption and also hard drive sizes & cost.

This is one thing that Satoshi was not, he was the vision master. 

[rosezionjohn]

Bitcoin was far from perfect when it was launched but the vision is always there. Improvements or upgrades comes along as the vision is being pursued.

[davis196]

Having a low TPS volume means more scarcity,which leads to bitcoin having more value as a "store of value" type of financial asset.
The "look how many transactions per second can VISA and Mastercard perform!" type of discussion is old and pointless.
Satoshi Nakamoto had never trully believed that some day, bitcoin will become a global currency.

[squatter]

I'm not sure if satoshi makes bitcoin as an alternative payment system, or with the intention to create the best and most used payment system, but this second option is impossible by the bitcoin nature and i will explain why.

If bitcoin want to become the #1 transactions and payment system it would have to be really more powerfull. If we compare the daily transactions banks vs daily transactions bitcoins, then you will understand why i call satoshi visionless:

Mastercard maintains 99.999 % availability and can process 3.4 billion transactions per day at 38,000+ transactions per second, with an average response time of 140 milliseconds….

Visa is at 24,000 TPS

https://www.quora.com/How-many-transactions-do-typical-banks-process-everyday

I'm not sure Bitcoin was ever intended to compete with Visa. It wasn't just designed as a payment system, but rather money, which is a far more impressive feat. I think this post by Satoshi really gets to the heart of his vision.

Also, in theory, Bitcoin could compete with Visa. Lightning or some other off-chain mechanism that allows for exponential scale will be required, though. I recall reading that Satoshi actually included payment channels in the original Bitcoin client, but they were removed because they were insecure.

Having a low TPS volume means more scarcity,which leads to bitcoin having more value as a "store of value" type of financial asset.

It's scarcity of the currency supply (the 21 million coin limit) that does that, not scarcity of transaction volume.

[Dadaro]

one thing is for sure about Satoshi he really did make a wave to start a tidal wave. let's give crypto some time, it's just starting to make an audience.

[Myown55]

Of course Satoshi Nakamoto had a wonderful vision. If you read the mentality behind bitcoin and its Whitepaper you will understand what I am talking about. Bitcoin is doing well at the moment except that unscrupulous activities like scam, fraud and theft has been our major drawback. Bank transactions however, are the pioneersand of course the most prominent at the moment, but Bitcoin will catch up soon.

[srsandokan]

With that market cap, and still consider SN a visionless?

[darklus123]

Entirely Wrong Idea, You may not have understood why is Bitcoin created in the first place that is why you are calling him visionless.

This might have been discussed alot of times but the whole idea to why was Bitcoin created is to simply contradicts whatever Banks, or other payment methods are. Especially that bitcoins transactions are anonymous.

Other than that you have a full control over your asset. No one will dictates you when you wanted to get your money or just store it.
Plus don't compare bitcoin which is a currency to a mode of payment like Mastercard

Satoshi for me is a very strategic guy he wanted to build an empire in which a certain government policy is not allowed.

[seoincorporation]

I'm not sure if satoshi makes bitcoin as an alternative payment system, or with the intention to create the best and most used payment system, but this second option is impossible by the bitcoin nature and i will explain why.

if you are looking for something perfect without any downsides and 0 problems then don't look for it in this universe. what you are seeking is not found anywhere but in an alternate universe!...

lol, maybe you are right, i'm searching perfection in the wrong place. But think about it, it could be perfect if the main focus of the coin where to be the main transactions system. But after read all your comments looks like that wasn't the focus. At end only time can tell us what was satoshi's vision.

[cellard]

Hal (satoshi) already saw the need for "bitcoin banks" because he was aware on the fact that it would never scale on-chain to massive worldwide levels:

Actually there is a very good reason for Bitcoin-backed banks to exist, issuing their own digital cash currency, redeemable for bitcoins. Bitcoin itself cannot scale to have every single financial transaction in the world be broadcast to everyone and included in the block chain. There needs to be a secondary level of payment systems which is lighter weight and more efficient. Likewise, the time needed for Bitcoin transactions to finalize will be impractical for medium to large value purchases.

Bitcoin backed banks will solve these problems. They can work like banks did before nationalization of currency. Different banks can have different policies, some more aggressive, some more conservative. Some would be fractional reserve while others may be 100% Bitcoin backed. Interest rates may vary. Cash from some banks may trade at a discount to that from others.

George Selgin has worked out the theory of competitive free banking in detail, and he argues that such a system would be stable, inflation resistant and self-regulating.

I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash. Most Bitcoin transactions will occur between banks, to settle net transfers. Bitcoin transactions by private individuals will be as rare as... well, as Bitcoin based purchases are today.

The good news is, LN turns out to be way better than what he predicted there.

When it comes to "banking the unbanked" and allowing poor people all around the globe to transfer value around, LN is the best there is to date. The people pitching you altcoins which will compete against centralized payment systems like VISA and so on, all on-chain, while remaining decentralized, are selling you a scam.