Dude buys sandwich with Lightning Network

[Ava Duvall]

wow, that's really what i need to know. The article gave me more motivation to hold the BTC longer. You know, I have invested in BTC at 12k $ and now it's only half way down. I hope the bitcoin will be accepted and developed in more developed countries.

its moving,slowly being accepted and integrated, it still needs time!

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[spadaccino]

We are seeing a new protocol to be implemented in the infrastructure of bitcoin and the thing went really smooth from there. So that is the new layer everyone is talking about: LN.
Nothing will be the same and we can consider again the Bitcoin like a form of payment with zero or so-like fee and start using everyday situation like it was meant to be at the Satoshi's days.
You can purchase any sort of good and start paying in crypto not only such an investment thing like house, horses and cars ( and they had been doing this ) but also a cup of coffee and a beer.
It's coming guys !

[talkbitcoin]

it is good to see that despite all the drama that has been going on, the lightning network development and adoption is still pretty much ongoing in a strong manner.
i am counting the days for the time when the first exchange starts opening up its first LN channel and allows bitcoin deposits through LN.

[Oniko]

Here it is! The future is near.

We are waiting for when large fast food will take bitcoin as a means of payment. This will spur the market to new growth and more people will learn about crypto-currencies

[jseverson]

No one is saying that Lightning is doing on-chain transactions, frank. Plus no one is saying that Lightning will replace on-chain transactions because we need on-chain transactions to open and close Lightning channels in the first place.

He's upset about the Lightning Network because it's essentially a bunch of IOUs, which, he is arguing, is not Bitcoin anymore. I do get where he's coming from.

But yeah, I personally think it's a welcome improvement. It's a potential game changer and it's optional, so even the most hardcore purists can ignore its existence. Lightning is essentially just an option to replace hot wallets at the end of the day, and I'm sure people will still keep a vast majority of their funds on-chain anyway.

[figmentofmyass]

No one is saying that Lightning is doing on-chain transactions, frank. Plus no one is saying that Lightning will replace on-chain transactions because we need on-chain transactions to open and close Lightning channels in the first place.

He's upset about the Lightning Network because it's essentially a bunch of IOUs, which, he is arguing, is not Bitcoin anymore. I do get where he's coming from.

they aren't really IOUs though. that implies trust and custody. in LN, the trust aspect has been eliminated by the use of multi-sig contracts. they are some sort of "bitcoin substitute" but there is no trust involved.

and literally, the entire point of bitcoin was to eliminate third party trust. the "banking layer" analogy is dishonest, and the "it's not bitcoin" attitude is moot since no third party trust is introduced.

Lightning is essentially just an option to replace hot wallets at the end of the day, and I'm sure people will still keep a vast majority of their funds on-chain anyway.

lightning isn't exactly replacing hot wallets IMO. lightning = hot wallets. it's impossible to use LN without keeping your private keys online. that's by far the biggest problem, and why i will only ever use it in a limited capacity.

[franky1]

No one is saying that Lightning is doing on-chain transactions, frank. Plus no one is saying that Lightning will replace on-chain transactions because we need on-chain transactions to open and close Lightning channels in the first place.

He's upset about the Lightning Network because it's essentially a bunch of IOUs, which, he is arguing, is not Bitcoin anymore. I do get where he's coming from.

they aren't really IOUs though. that implies trust and custody. in LN, the trust aspect has been eliminated by the use of multi-sig contracts. they are some sort of "bitcoin substitute" but there is no trust involved.

and literally, the entire point of bitcoin was to eliminate third party trust. the "banking layer" analogy is dishonest, and the "it's not bitcoin" attitude is moot since no third party trust is introduced.

Lightning is essentially just an option to replace hot wallets at the end of the day, and I'm sure people will still keep a vast majority of their funds on-chain anyway.

lightning isn't exactly replacing hot wallets IMO. lightning = hot wallets. it's impossible to use LN without keeping your private keys online. that's by far the biggest problem, and why i will only ever use it in a limited capacity.

you might want to research the latest concepts of fortknox "factories"
you might want to research playing with payment iou's that have tokens of 12 decimals not 8 decimals "millisats"
you might want to research the payment iou's are not moving funds from A to Z. but instead AB have one account and theres an IOU contract of 12decimals in that channel.
B then has a separate account with C and theres an IOU of 12 decimals in that channel
C then has a separate account with D and theres an IOU of 12 decimals in that channel
D then has a separate account with E and theres an IOU of 12 decimals in that channel
and so on all the way to Z

and for A to make a payment to Z
A signs a 12decimal IOU with B
separately and in a different account
B signs a 12decimal IOU with C
separately and in a different account
and so on.

and as long as everyone on the route is online and has funds locked up as collateral in a factory they all agree on their individual IOU's of 12 decimals in the channels
later and separately a different contract that contains 12 decimal values can be be sent back to the factory when closing a channel. to then negotiate a 8decimal contract to exit fortknox and get back onchain usable funds. or renegotiate another set of 12 decimal iou's to reopen new channels. thus reducing the amount of onchain transactions just to close and reopen channels.

yea i hear people twist it to say its good to keep funds locked into fortknox "factories".
but without actually innovating bitcoins blockchain. fortknox owners will try to persuade people that its easier faster and cheaper to exit fortnox via altcoins.

like the gold banking era
gold in.. nickel and brass coins out. and fortknox keeps the gold

[tunapa]

The lightening network has kept  doing its best to make bitcoin and cryptocurrency and its making a lot of sense. this is a very good news about its development and progress. i am happy we will see a better bitcoin and cryptocurency with this technology. 

[vgk88]

It sounds interesting, I would like to see statistics in a year. I wonder how many sandwiches will be bought this way in a year.

[jseverson]

they aren't really IOUs though. that implies trust and custody. in LN, the trust aspect has been eliminated by the use of multi-sig contracts. they are some sort of "bitcoin substitute" but there is no trust involved.

That's kind of why I said "essentially." They're IOUs in a sense that everything is settled on-chain later.

lightning isn't exactly replacing hot wallets IMO. lightning = hot wallets. it's impossible to use LN without keeping your private keys online. that's by far the biggest problem, and why i will only ever use it in a limited capacity.

I didn't say they were replacing hot wallets, I said they could replace them for some people. As in, a person has an option to use it or not. On-chain purists can choose to ignore it completely and keep their hot wallets completely on the blockchain.

[bolbau]

thats really impressive, im really jealous i cant find that kind of restaurant in my country anyway this is what the cryptocurrency really need, all of coin need a function and real value, not only an assets that use for trading and investment. this is what people really want, blockchain and cryptocurrency technology that can be useful for them. I hope that with the emergence of this news, public and government confidence in crpytocurrency will increase, and in the future it can be accepted globally.

hmmm maybe the number of satoshi hes spend to buy a sandwich will be worth the price of one house in the future. lmao, lets see

[code]

This is great news, I believe that bitcoin in the future can destroy many coins-copies, the idea of which is just a cheap Commission.

[myfranco]

Adoption is the key. With the help of LN, we'll see it more because it can be used as a currency while it's seen more as a store of value.

[kucritt]

wow thats amazing, i think that is very good currency, and if the method have more popularity than bitcoin, i think bitcoin can beaten up by this method. and i think if it have more popularity, all people will use this lighting network for their currency and trade

[BrewMaster]

that is cool but i think LN is best used for use cases where frequency is needed more than using it for buying a one time thing such as a sandwich. of course this is just a show of the powers of lightning network in real world applications but i think we need to see it be used in places such as exchanges and gambling sites, mixers and ...

[Wind_FURY]

No one is saying that Lightning is doing on-chain transactions, frank. Plus no one is saying that Lightning will replace on-chain transactions because we need on-chain transactions to open and close Lightning channels in the first place.

He's upset about the Lightning Network because it's essentially a bunch of IOUs, which, he is arguing, is not Bitcoin anymore. I do get where he's coming from.

they aren't really IOUs though. that implies trust and custody. in LN, the trust aspect has been eliminated by the use of multi-sig contracts. they are some sort of "bitcoin substitute" but there is no trust involved.

and literally, the entire point of bitcoin was to eliminate third party trust. the "banking layer" analogy is dishonest, and the "it's not bitcoin" attitude is moot since no third party trust is introduced.

Lightning is essentially just an option to replace hot wallets at the end of the day, and I'm sure people will still keep a vast majority of their funds on-chain anyway.

lightning isn't exactly replacing hot wallets IMO. lightning = hot wallets. it's impossible to use LN without keeping your private keys online. that's by far the biggest problem, and why i will only ever use it in a limited capacity.

you might want to research the latest concepts of fortknox "factories"
you might want to research playing with payment iou's that have tokens of 12 decimals not 8 decimals "millisats"
you might want to research the payment iou's are not moving funds from A to Z. but instead AB have one account and theres an IOU contract of 12decimals in that channel.
B then has a separate account with C and theres an IOU of 12 decimals in that channel
C then has a separate account with D and theres an IOU of 12 decimals in that channel
D then has a separate account with E and theres an IOU of 12 decimals in that channel
and so on all the way to Z

and for A to make a payment to Z
A signs a 12decimal IOU with B
separately and in a different account
B signs a 12decimal IOU with C
separately and in a different account
and so on.

and as long as everyone on the route is online and has funds locked up as collateral in a factory they all agree on their individual IOU's of 12 decimals in the channels
later and separately a different contract that contains 12 decimal values can be be sent back to the factory when closing a channel. to then negotiate a 8decimal contract to exit fortknox and get back onchain usable funds. or renegotiate another set of 12 decimal iou's to reopen new channels. thus reducing the amount of onchain transactions just to close and reopen channels.

yea i hear people twist it to say its good to keep funds locked into fortknox "factories".
but without actually innovating bitcoins blockchain. fortknox owners will try to persuade people that its easier faster and cheaper to exit fortnox via altcoins.

like the gold banking era
gold in.. nickel and brass coins out. and fortknox keeps the gold

Technically maybe yes, the Lightning Network works like a payment system of "IOUs". But of "IOUs" you have full control over, and a network that scales Bitcoin immensely more that will never be done on-chain.

Sorry franky1, development of Lightning is ongoing, and the network nodes, and users are increasing.

[chocolah29]

What an informative thread to read and the brain storming is getting tight. I love everything that I read though I'm just confuse what's the real thing and made me think more.

(hint LN will see litecoin on the same network as bitcoin)

So this whole LN will be also be use by litecoin (sooner), so this mean bitcoin and litecoin will be sharing the network? Isn't that appropriate for bitcoin? I mean the transactions are more huge, even LN is faster, I think it will have some discrepancy.

[meanwords]

That's actually impressive. With lightning Network being implemented in some small transactions like that, Bitcoin could possibly now become a currency that everyone wants. I'd imagine in a decade or so, cryptocurrency transactions would be sweet.

[franky1]

Technically maybe yes, the Lightning Network works like a payment system of "IOUs". But of "IOUs" you have full control over, and a network that scales Bitcoin immensely more that will never be done on-chain.

Sorry franky1, development of Lightning is ongoing, and the network nodes, and users are increasing.

nothing against the LN continuing. but the constant advertising that its a bitcoin feature or bitcoins solution. while the devs and other less secure network promoters keep saying bitcoin cant scale and LN is needed.. is the issue.

LN should be thought of as what it really is. a separate network for multiple coins. that uses its own token of 12 decimals and a second party to co-authorise payments in channel payments, AND requiring the other parties in other channels along routes.. AND the destination to be all online to allow a payment of these 12 decimal tokens to occur faster than a bitcoin transaction would to random people.

but hey. lets hear the typical reply from other network advertisers. "if you dont like it F**k off" to another network

[franky1]

What an informative thread to read and the brain storming is getting tight. I love everything that I read though I'm just confuse what's the real thing and made me think more.

(hint LN will see litecoin on the same network as bitcoin)

So this whole LN will be also be use by litecoin (sooner), so this mean bitcoin and litecoin will be sharing the network? Isn't that appropriate for bitcoin? I mean the transactions are more huge, even LN is faster, I think it will have some discrepancy.

no

your locking your real funds(8 decimals) up with someone on the blockchain of either litecoin or bitcoin..(and other coins too)
and then in the separate network playing with 12decimal tokens that are faster. but are locked into transactions that need someone elses authority and being online to accept

as a separate service of convenience for a niche of people that have caluclated the benefits and risks and know its purpose. they can use it. but that does not mean we should waste years not re-innovating bitcoins network, purely because we should wait for LN