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Author Topic: 2018 USA Mid Terms! Red or Blue Waves?!?  (Read 1372 times)
GreenBits
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October 27, 2018, 03:10:08 AM
Merited by Flying Hellfish (5), suchmoon (4)
 #41

I would sit out any bets on the next few elections. We have never been here before. Times of great civil unrest typically portend political upheaval in ways that defy our common models. We have people yelling at kids on a field trip for speaking Spanish. And people screaming at folks just trying to eat lunch with their family. Last time shit was this real was during the civil rights movement. And we still haven't sorted that out (in fact, I would venture to say this is The Movement 2.0).

These last few years have been a clusterfuck strapped on an emotional roller coaster. Throw a rocket into all that somewhere for effect. We first saw the left react to Trumps win. Then we saw the Right react to the liberal outrage at Trump (the constant negative coverage. I'm like meh, they shit on Obama as well so I'm fine with this, but I will admit the media fucking loathes Trump, and has been riding his coattails to better ratings). What we haven't seen before is this divorce from reality, this embracing of wild conspiracy and falsehoods because they reinforce the narrative we would like to see. The parts of society that truly believed in the batshit weren't encouraged to have a voice. Social media has been a curse in this regard.

Would you be able to blame any side for their actions at this point? If the Dems get the House, they would be fools not to investigate and move to impeach. If the Repubs keep or solidify majorities, they should double down on pushing through their pro corp agenda at breakneck speed (deregulation, reduction of corporate taxes and degradation of individual civil rights). This is a rare moment in global politics that has the possibility to reshape politics as we have seen it up to this point.

If you are a true patriot, peeps, get out and vote. There are no excuses. Get off your ass. From the Proud Boys to Antifa, it doesn't matter. We will see the true consensus, the true will of the republic. But ONLY if you get the fuck up and vote.

This shit is insane. And if it hits the fan, I will ride all this mess out on my rural property until we calm the fuck down.
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October 27, 2018, 04:04:52 AM
 #42

but I will admit the media fucking loathes Trump, and has been riding his coattails to better ratings). What we haven't seen before is this divorce from reality, this embracing of wild conspiracy and falsehoods because they reinforce the narrative we would like to see. The parts of society that truly believed in the batshit weren't encouraged to have a voice. Social media has been a curse in this regard.

I don't personally consider the media calling out Trumps lies as the "media loathing Trump".  If any other POTUS lied THOUSANDS of times the media would have been "riding their coattails" as well...  I also don't consider fact checking the liar in chief as particularly antagonistic.

He literally made up a 10% tax cut on the lawn in front of Marine 1.  He promised the tax cut before the fucking mid terms, I mean this isn't a little stretch it is literally impossible as congress is on the campaign trail and not in session.

He is on tape describing his preferred method of sexual assault, he is an unnamed co-conspirator in a federal case.

Frankly speaking the fact that Trump was elected in the first place and the fact that soooooo many people believe his blatant lies is the reason why most non Americans believe that primates are more intelligent than the average red neck (MAGA bomber was a genius LOL).

I do agree that unfortunately the conspiracy losers have been a fringe group until recently when twitter/FB etc gives them a voice and Trump gives their moronic ideas credence.

At this point as a non American IMO if your countrymen aren't smart enough to check this lying racist retard with Congress and the Senate then you guys deserve everything Trump does to your country.  TBH with the turn out being up to the level of a Presidential year it could go a lot better for Republicans than the Dems might be thinking.

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October 27, 2018, 04:27:21 AM
 #43

So you don't really believe what you say? Nut up and support your words with actions. Put your money where your mouth is.

There is a difference between what I think will happen and what I am willing to wager will happen...  Sometimes I think the Washington Generals will finally pull out a win but I wouldn't wager on it!!!!!!!

30 or I'll pass thanks.

I get it, you don't really believe what you say. Wink

Oh horse shit, it's an unpredictable future event.  Just because I won't bet you on it doesn't mean I don't think it will happen, odds matter.

Give me 2 to 1 odds and I will take the 35 seat bet!!!
You want 2 to 1 odds for something that is favorable to happen? That doesn’t sound very fair.

Happy New Year!
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October 27, 2018, 05:35:32 AM
 #44

but I will admit the media fucking loathes Trump, and has been riding his coattails to better ratings). What we haven't seen before is this divorce from reality, this embracing of wild conspiracy and falsehoods because they reinforce the narrative we would like to see. The parts of society that truly believed in the batshit weren't encouraged to have a voice. Social media has been a curse in this regard.

I don't personally consider the media calling out Trumps lies as the "media loathing Trump".  If any other POTUS lied THOUSANDS of times the media would have been "riding their coattails" as well...  I also don't consider fact checking the liar in chief as particularly antagonistic.

He literally made up a 10% tax cut on the lawn in front of Marine 1.  He promised the tax cut before the fucking mid terms, I mean this isn't a little stretch it is literally impossible as congress is on the campaign trail and not in session.

He is on tape describing his preferred method of sexual assault, he is an unnamed co-conspirator in a federal case.

Frankly speaking the fact that Trump was elected in the first place and the fact that soooooo many people believe his blatant lies is the reason why most non Americans believe that primates are more intelligent than the average red neck (MAGA bomber was a genius LOL).

I do agree that unfortunately the conspiracy losers have been a fringe group until recently when twitter/FB etc gives them a voice and Trump gives their moronic ideas credence.

At this point as a non American IMO if your countrymen aren't smart enough to check this lying racist retard with Congress and the Senate then you guys deserve everything Trump does to your country.  TBH with the turn out being up to the level of a Presidential year it could go a lot better for Republicans than the Dems might be thinking.

Oh, to be plain I understand the need to check the blatant falsehoods and half truths. I just think some of the shit they report on (like his weak ass hairline, or his shit diet) is tabloid fodder at best, and just a vehicle for ratings (I will admit, the outrage is refreshing. The constant gaslighting is having an effect; we are pretending like this shit is normal and I'm starting to not balk at some of the shit he says and does.

I ingest so much political rhetoric from so many places (I'm a black liberal and I read Breitbart religiously to taste the spin) that I'm kind of numb at this point. There is a 24 hour news cycle that is pretty much devoted to Trump and his antics. It creeps into my foreign publications as well.

There will always be something outrageous to report on. Trump will make sure of that. But the rest of Rome burns while we watch Nero tweet. This Cabinet has been tearing up the couches and ripping down the curtains on established policy. Gutted EPA. Rolled back workers rights. Not even gonna talk about DeVos. And if our border policy was fucked up before, well its fucking dead atm Wink

As an American, I cant call this one my international compatriot. His guys are really fired up with this Q shit, Kavanaugh, abortion rights."Democratic Mobs". Caravans of foreign invaders with a sprinkling of terrorists LMAO. It's like Christmas in July for conservatives atm, and a lot of people are willing to hold their nose in order to see a political agenda pass that wouldn't have a snowball's chance in hell given Americas slow progressive creep.  On the same hand, Trump has managed to piss off the LGBTQ crowd, blacks, Muslims, women, Mexicans etc. The political angst at Trump in office, still, after all this cockamamie shit, is a powerful force to get Democratic voters to the polls. Its surreal over here politically for everyone except Trumps core.

I cant say with certainty that saner heads will prevail in this case. And if they don't, then buckle in brother. It's going to be a wild fucking ride.



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October 27, 2018, 06:08:25 AM
 #45

Its surreal over here politically for everyone except Trumps core.

Are Republicans actually stupid enough to believe Trump when he tweets that Republicans will protect pre-existing conditions and the dems will destroy it?HuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuh

The Republicans had tried like 70 times to repeal the ACA, there are Republican candidates like Kemp claiming they are going to protect pre-existing conditions while his state and HIM are leading a lawsuit to have the ACA repealed.  Lying Ted is now saying he will protect pre-existing conditions when he was filibustering by reading Dr. fucking Zeus not to long ago and Texas is on the lawsuit to repeal the ACA...

It's kind of cute how Americans were sooooo against Obamacare but once they saw the actual benefit to them the last thing in the world they want right now is to get rid of it...  Go figure people like being healthier who could have imagined that?

Your whole political system is completely and utterly corrupt, I don't mean either party I mean the system as set up is flawed.

What I mean by that is your system is set up as a legalized system of bribery... When corporations and rich individuals buy politicians with large and reoccurring donations it is only logical that the politicians will make decisions that are good for their donors often regardless of the outcome to individual constituents.

If Americans would only ask themselves why were/are the Republicans so against a single pay system when its been proven around the world to work.  Not only does it actually work but it also provides universal health care at almost half the price of the American health care system.  Think about that for one second, you could have universal health care for every American citizen and spend roughly half the public health care dollars currently spent, why is no politician talking about this??  The insurance companies donate to the Republican party no matter how much better a single pay system could be they will never go for it because they will lose hundreds of millions in donations...


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October 27, 2018, 04:03:52 PM
 #46

Are Republicans actually stupid enough to believe Trump when he tweets that Republicans will protect pre-existing conditions and the dems will destroy it?

I had a lengthy discussion recently with someone who works full time and runs a business on the side. Business is doing ok but the reason they don't quit their job is because the individual insurance premiums would be ~$15k a year (male, 60s). If it wasn't for those ridiculous age-based fixed-rate premiums he could quit his job, expand his business, hire a part-time employee or two.

Luckily he'll get Medicare if he can last a few more years working 100 hours a week but generally people 50+ are in a very precarious position if they want to start a business or even change jobs (small/medium employers hesitate to hire older people because they can drive their group rates up, even though such discrimination is illegal).

So that's how it works out with pre-existing condition protection in place. If that goes away you better pray you die of cancer because surviving means slow death in poverty. The economics of healthcare is totally fucked up and it will increasingly hurt small businesses and entrepreneurship, which has been the engine of growth for many decades. Which I thought Republicans used to support but I'm probably remembering wrong.

Oh and the person I talked to is voting Republican precisely because Trump said Democrats are evil and will take his Medicare away.

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October 27, 2018, 04:29:36 PM
Last edit: October 27, 2018, 04:39:55 PM by Flying Hellfish
 #47

Oh and the person I talked to is voting Republican precisely because Trump said Democrats are evil and will take his Medicare away.

So they are stupid enough to believe his fucking tweets... OMFG you guys are so fucked LOL.

Is that person not able to see the lawsuit the REPUBLICANS have currently in the courts to try to repeal the ACA pre-existing condition clause. Is he not aware of the 70 votes the republicans have taken to repeal his precious health care?

I agree that your healthcare system stifles small business, in Canada healthcare and the word pre-existing conditions don't exist as obstacles to open, run and expand a business...  Capitalism my ass!

The USA is literally the only modern western democratic country where people declare personal bankruptcy because of healthcare, yup private health care is sooooooooooo fucking awesome!!!!!!!!!


Luckily he'll get Medicare if he can last a few more years working 100 hours a week

If he's really lucky Medicare won't be slashed out of existence by the Republicans by the time he turns 65, what a great gamble for a man who spent decades paying taxes and into the system!


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October 27, 2018, 06:02:12 PM
 #48

So they are stupid enough to believe his fucking tweets... OMFG you guys are so fucked LOL.

I'm not surprised by that anymore. But I'm still not able to get the part where people knowingly hurt themselves by voting for ridiculous bozos (happens on the local level too) just because "it'll will show them <insert opposing political party>". Where I live it's mostly Republicans doing this shit. So for example a school district next door cut their property taxes and closed a few elementary schools just when more young... uhm... brown families started moving into the town. I mean that wasn't the official reason but school board members and council members running for re-election are basically saying "see how crowded our schools are, we don't need more people to move here" and wouldn't admit that schools are crowded because they gifted thousands of dollars to the richest people in the district, or that new people bring in much needed taxes not just for the district but for the town too, plus business income etc.

They will be re-elected because... reasons. It's not like most people there could ever afford private schools but they'd rather have their kids in 30-student classrooms and have them bused to school 45 minutes away than agree to the "communist" concept of perhaps 25 or 20 kids per class. IIRC the cost to re-open one elementary is like $300 in property taxes per median household ($25 per month).

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October 27, 2018, 06:15:31 PM
 #49

Trump is responsible for cancer now? Why is the government responsible for your healthcare? Every time you involve the government, things get MORE inefficient and costly, not less. Most of these regulations are to push out smaller providers and preserve monopolies, not to protect or care for you.


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October 27, 2018, 06:23:47 PM
 #50

Trump is responsible for cancer now? Why is the government responsible for your healthcare? Every time you involve the government, things get MORE inefficient and costly, not less.

I know facts are hard for you to understand but empirical data shows that the US government spends more tax dollars on less health care than the rest of the world with UHC.  Or IOW In Canada our government run universal health care is approximately twice as efficient as your private system on simple economic terms and that is BEFORE counting the fucking coverage inequality, in which the Canadian government run system provides full healthcare while the American system is lets just say less than complete.

Your private system is literally one of the most  inefficient healthcare systems in the civilized world....  And empirically less efficient than almost all forms of UHC...

Facts matter

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October 27, 2018, 07:26:11 PM
 #51

Trump is responsible for cancer now? Why is the government responsible for your healthcare? Every time you involve the government, things get MORE inefficient and costly, not less. Most of these regulations are to push out smaller providers and preserve monopolies, not to protect or care for you.

That's absolutely false. Like FHF, I've lived in countries that have proper healthcare systems and the US system is by far the most fucked up of all developed countries. It is inefficient and costly in large part because not a single component of it (doctors, hospitals, pharmacies, insurers, equipment manufacturers, drug manufacturers) has any incentive for prevention or anything other than selling their products and services to you. Prevention means less profit. Sick people means more profit. Monopolies are thriving, see EpiPen.

There are many other issues too, like insurance companies and related bureaucracy inflating the costs for no added benefit. Lack of transparency - you won't even know how much it's gonna cost until you get the bill, so "shopping around" is impossible. Medicare is by law prevented from negotiating drug prices so it must be based on "market" price, with predictable results - drug companies hike prices up for everyone so that they could milk the federal government.

Healthcare spending is inelastic so traditional demand-supply mechanisms don't work well and require some government intervention unless we want people developing serious conditions due to lack of preventative care and then dying when they can't afford the treatment. Most countries have figured that out decades ago. Even the US figured it out at least with regards to seniors (Medicare, flawed as it may be), veterans (VA), and low income people (Medicaid). Now it just needs to get the rest of the population into the 20th century.

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October 27, 2018, 09:36:55 PM
 #52

I never said our current healthcare system was perfect. However if you can afford it, its great. As stated, in its current form it is incredibly inefficient. The problem though is this country has been implementing Socialist type policies for some time now, along with all kinds of red tape and excessive regulations that make things SO DIFFICULT for doctors, they are just quitting in droves. BTW, this was well underway while Obama was still in office, so no knee jerk "MORE PROOF ORANGEMAN BAD" here please.

The policies you are advocating are the cause of the issues, not the solution.


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October 28, 2018, 12:20:53 AM
 #53

I never said our current healthcare system was perfect. However if you can afford it, its great. As stated, in its current form it is incredibly inefficient. The problem though is this country has been implementing Socialist type policies for some time now, along with all kinds of red tape and excessive regulations that make things SO DIFFICULT for doctors, they are just quitting in droves. BTW, this was well underway while Obama was still in office, so no knee jerk "MORE PROOF ORANGEMAN BAD" here please.

The policies you are advocating are the cause of the issues, not the solution.

And those who can't afford it?

Market is not going to solve the issues. If that was possible we wouldn't be spending 18% of GDP on healthcare for 90% of the population while other countries cover 100% with half that. We can continue arguing about it for 50 more years but eventually "socialist" policies - such as tax-funded full coverage and price controls - will be implemented.

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October 28, 2018, 12:34:46 AM
 #54

I never said our current healthcare system was perfect. However if you can afford it, its great. As stated, in its current form it is incredibly inefficient. The problem though is this country has been implementing Socialist type policies for some time now, along with all kinds of red tape and excessive regulations that make things SO DIFFICULT for doctors, they are just quitting in droves. BTW, this was well underway while Obama was still in office, so no knee jerk "MORE PROOF ORANGEMAN BAD" here please.

The policies you are advocating are the cause of the issues, not the solution.

And those who can't afford it?

Market is not going to solve the issues. If that was possible we wouldn't be spending 18% of GDP on healthcare for 90% of the population while other countries cover 100% with half that. We can continue arguing about it for 50 more years but eventually "socialist" policies - such as tax-funded full coverage and price controls - will be implemented.

The majority of Americans were against the ACA (which is hardly socialist) but now that they have had it for a few years the majority of Americans love it...  Americans love it SO MUCH that the Republicans are now campaigning on keeping it while filing a lawsuit to repeal it LOL.

Turns out when people have healthcare they end up liking it, kind of unbelievable but somehow it's true!

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October 28, 2018, 06:45:43 PM
 #55

....
Turns out when people have healthcare they end up liking it, kind of unbelievable but somehow it's true!

Ain't all that free shit nice?
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October 28, 2018, 06:59:49 PM
 #56

I never said our current healthcare system was perfect. However if you can afford it, its great. As stated, in its current form it is incredibly inefficient. The problem though is this country has been implementing Socialist type policies for some time now, along with all kinds of red tape and excessive regulations that make things SO DIFFICULT for doctors, they are just quitting in droves. BTW, this was well underway while Obama was still in office, so no knee jerk "MORE PROOF ORANGEMAN BAD" here please.

The policies you are advocating are the cause of the issues, not the solution.

And those who can't afford it?

Market is not going to solve the issues. If that was possible we wouldn't be spending 18% of GDP on healthcare for 90% of the population while other countries cover 100% with half that. We can continue arguing about it for 50 more years but eventually "socialist" policies - such as tax-funded full coverage and price controls - will be implemented.

The majority of Americans were against the ACA (which is hardly socialist) but now that they have had it for a few years the majority of Americans love it...  Americans love it SO MUCH that the Republicans are now campaigning on keeping it while filing a lawsuit to repeal it LOL.

Turns out when people have healthcare they end up liking it, kind of unbelievable but somehow it's true!


I don't understand the American obsession with communism and socialism (no, they are not one and the same). It is almost like seeing ghosts. They hardly exist anymore. The wellfare or social state systems are not the same as socialism. And not even the wellfare state is required to be able to have afordable health care. This is 2018.
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October 28, 2018, 07:35:22 PM
 #57

....
Turns out when people have healthcare they end up liking it, kind of unbelievable but somehow it's true!

Ain't all that free shit nice?

huh I guess the American citizens covered by the ACA never pay taxes...  Do you like all those free roads you use or any other litany of services the government provides for "free".

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October 28, 2018, 07:44:45 PM
 #58

....
Turns out when people have healthcare they end up liking it, kind of unbelievable but somehow it's true!

Ain't all that free shit nice?

huh I guess the American citizens covered by the ACA never pay taxes...  Do you like all those free roads you use or any other litany of services the government provides for "free".

Your knowledge of the current state of ACA is one of blissful ignorance, but then I recall once having an in depth discussion with a Canadian doc about the socialized medicine in Canada, and realized I didn't know anything about it. Suffice to say that if, for example, pharmaceutical companies were an extremely powerful lobby in the halls of power of a country, one could expect any law passed which dished out money to really, really favor them. That's the case in the USA, but not in many other countries in which that lobby is not such a force.

It should then be easy to understand (But I find it hard to forget the depths of stupid) that what works in one country may be predicted accurately to be a total fail in another.

Fortunately, though, you don't have to know any of the details. The lying liars will tell you what to think and believe, and what to repeat, and you can just follow their lead.

Or not.
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October 28, 2018, 07:49:44 PM
 #59

....
Turns out when people have healthcare they end up liking it, kind of unbelievable but somehow it's true!

Ain't all that free shit nice?

There is also that free wall. Must feel nice.
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October 28, 2018, 08:14:53 PM
 #60

Suffice to say that if, for example, pharmaceutical companies were an extremely powerful lobby in the halls of power of a country, one could expect any law passed which dished out money to really, really favor them. That's the case in the USA, but not in many other countries in which that lobby is not such a force.

Ya most democratic countries have figured out allowing politicians to be bought publicly is a bit of a problem LOL.  

So what your saying is that the lobby groups have to much power because they already bought BOTH political parties??  You mean politicians might make decisions that favour their corporate donors over their constituents?  Some countries consider this legalized public bribery and have a lot of laws to make sure politicians aren't publicly bought off LOL.  

I wonder when the American citizens will figure this out and take all their assault rifles to congress and demand the corrupt government be made to actually work for them instead of against them...

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