I don't like this stable price!

[harizen]

For some of us that has been speculating that bitcoin is going to pull back to $3,000 and $1500 I don't think the current stability is going to allow that to come to pass and for those that said bitcoin is to moon,  maybe above $20,000 the stability is still not going to allow that to happen.  However,  if bitcoin price is not stable within a range there is not going to be adoptions buy retail and wholesale business. Stability of price is what will help bitcoin become  acceptable.

Bitcoin price isn't always stable since it's inception. Until there is a hype now way it can become stable.

Since that is the scenario, we are the one who have to adjust for it. Why there are merchants accepts crypto even the price is volatile? Why there are people who are into crypto that still use crypto in some of the service? Why other countries legalized bitcoin? These kind of question is enough for you to understand that even with the volatile price of bitcoin, an increase in adoption can always take place as there are lots of reasons why people used bitcoin even how volatile it was.

You just have to trust the process.

[1714808586]

1714808586

[1714808586]

1714808586

[1714808586]

1714808586

[1714808586]

1714808586

[1714808586]

1714808586

[el kaka22]

For some of us that has been speculating that bitcoin is going to pull back to $3,000 and $1500 I don't think the current stability is going to allow that to come to pass and for those that said bitcoin is to moon,  maybe above $20,000 the stability is still not going to allow that to happen.  However,  if bitcoin price is not stable within a range there is not going to be adoptions buy retail and wholesale business. Stability of price is what will help bitcoin become  acceptable.

The plain truth is we are not even close to the point where we will get to have any serious stability yet and maybe after mainstream adoption, we may begin to start seeing the possibility of it. We are still in the early phase, and even though the market has been moving sideways for a while, that just shows a market that is trying to find a direction.

I guess from the break out we just had, we would not need a soothsayer to tell you afterwards, which one way or the other, the market will always tends to pick a direction. At this point, I do not think there would be a possibility of a pull back to that extent, at least, getting the market to close weekly above $7k should be a good sign and if we peradventure scale through $8500 to $8800, then we may see the possibility of attaining something higher before the end of the year.

[player514]

For some of us that has been speculating that bitcoin is going to pull back to $3,000 and $1500 I don't think the current stability is going to allow that to come to pass and for those that said bitcoin is to moon,  maybe above $20,000 the stability is still not going to allow that to happen.  However,  if bitcoin price is not stable within a range there is not going to be adoptions buy retail and wholesale business. Stability of price is what will help bitcoin become  acceptable.

If you think Bitcoin is ever at a stable price, you're in for a surprise. Take a look at the stock market. In comparison to Bitcoin's growth and falls, the stock market is as sturdy as a rock even through a majority of the recent gains and drops. I think retailers and wholesalers are smart. They understand that Bitcoin will never be truly stable, and that's why they're nervous about getting into it. Most people who accept Bitcoin are probably individual's self-made businesses. 

In other words, we're far from our ideal picture where Bitcoin functions as currency.

Does anyone honestly expect it to become an everyday currency? I never have.

I expect merchant options to continue contracting until options are possibly narrower than they were in 2014/15. If it isn't current boredom now it was the incredibly high fees and network cloggage when things were hotter that turned customers and merchants off.

If Bitcoin ever becomes vast and vastly more stable then perhaps its use for payments will start to increase. Until then it's going to be an extremely variable sideshow.

I mean, I expected it to become an every-day currency for the things I did, and to an extent it worked well for that (buying/selling goods and services online, on steam, etc.). However, for the general public, I doubt it would work out. I agree that there will always be something about BTC that retailers will find to deny working with it.

[gentlemand]

I mean, I expected it to become an every-day currency for the things I did, and to an extent it worked well for that (buying/selling goods and services online, on steam, etc.). However, for the general public, I doubt it would work out. I agree that there will always be something about BTC that retailers will find to deny working with it.

It's absolutely superb for retailers - no chargebacks, permanent settlement within an hour or so and can be accepted worldwide. It's consumers who have no incentive to use it at all. Retailers would have to heavily discount to entice non believers and the margins aren't there in most areas.

[player514]

I mean, I expected it to become an every-day currency for the things I did, and to an extent it worked well for that (buying/selling goods and services online, on steam, etc.). However, for the general public, I doubt it would work out. I agree that there will always be something about BTC that retailers will find to deny working with it.

It's absolutely superb for retailers - no chargebacks, permanent settlement within an hour or so and can be accepted worldwide. It's consumers who have no incentive to use it at all. Retailers would have to heavily discount to entice non believers and the margins aren't there in most areas.

Interesting. I see your point, but I was considering the case in which retailers have to deal with customer returns on the daily. For example, Amazon. It's nowhere near their interest to use Bitcoin in my opinion because they'll need to deal with returns as well as selling small items. When it comes to small items, the profits can be so tiny that even the fluctuations in BTC can end up being a devastating loss for them in the long run. When profit margins are so small, isn't there a caution to be taken with accepting Bitcoin?

I might be looking at too much of a narrow subset of retailers, but in general, when companies deal with returns, it's in their best interest in giving the customer a reason to come back to shop with them again. In this case, if a retailer takes the motto of "the customer is always right," then I could see a decent amount of people trying to exploit this for their own good, using the fluctuations in prices of BTC to their advantage.

I do see the issues that customers would have with it, but in general, I don't think customers worry about larger retailers and stores scamming them of their money -- that only really happens with smaller one-to-one exchanges.

Again, I may be thinking of a completely different scenario, so thanks for bringing your point to light for clarity again!

[Febo]

For some of us that has been speculating that bitcoin is going to pull back to $3,000 and $1500 I don't think the current stability is going to allow that to come to pass and for those that said bitcoin is to moon,  maybe above $20,000 the stability is still not going to allow that to happen.  However,  if bitcoin price is not stable within a range there is not going to be adoptions buy retail and wholesale business. Stability of price is what will help bitcoin become  acceptable.

Most retailers that sell in Bitcoins automatically exchange BTC fro fiat money. There are plenty of such services. So they carry zero risk.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

However,  if bitcoin price is not stable within a range there is not going to be adoptions buy retail and wholesale business.

I don't know if that's true or not.  If a merchant is using a payment processor like Bitpay, the processor converts the bitcoin payment into fiat immediately so that the merchant never has to deal with the volatility risk.  Merchants don't particularly want to own bitcoin; they want fiat, and understandably so.  For one thing, I would imagine it makes doing the bookkeeping a lot easier than it would be if they held onto crypto.

Most retailers that sell in Bitcoins automatically exchange BTC fro fiat money. There are plenty of such services. So they carry zero risk.

You said it better than I did.  The point is that bitcoin doesn't really need to be stable for it to function as a currency, at least not from a merchant's standpoint.  But for the customer who owns it, there's always a potential opportunity cost associated with spending bitcoin--you risk spending a currency that could dramatically increase in value the minute you spend it, and you lose out on the profits you could have made.  I think that's what's keeping a lot of folks from spending crypto.

I just can't see them buying their tampons with it.

I fully agree.  I'd have a hard time convincing myself to spend bitcoin for something I could just as easily buy with fiat.  For me, bitcoin has always been for keeping.  Cash is for spending.

[thecodebear]

ha no $3k or $1500 is not gonna happen. I don't know why anyone would think that would happen. The market has been very clear all year that $6000 is the bottom and any price below that is unacceptable to the market. $6000 is the firmly established bottom of the market, if you want $3000 or $1500 you should have bought the first half of last year.

The price of Bitcoin isn't stable, it is just in the relatively stable phase as it transitions between bear and bull market. This is normal and to be expected. The bear market has ended, the bull market won't begin for a bit longer (maybe by end of this year), so in between the bear and bull forces are cancelling each other out and we get a fairly stable price at the bottom of the market before the next long incoming bull run begins.

[Chachacoin17]

For some of us that has been speculating that bitcoin is going to pull back to $3,000 and $1500 I don't think the current stability is going to allow that to come to pass and for those that said bitcoin is to moon,  maybe above $20,000 the stability is still not going to allow that to happen.  However,  if bitcoin price is not stable within a range there is not going to be adoptions buy retail and wholesale business. Stability of price is what will help bitcoin become  acceptable.

Most retailers that sell in Bitcoins automatically exchange BTC fro fiat money. There are plenty of such services. So they carry zero risk.

This is a good signs that we need to focus on for now, and for those have the proper understanding on zero risk its time to build a confident ways to handle your trading motivations. Even though stable price doesn't actually raising faster increase in the market value, still we see progress between digital and fiat exchanges eventually synced in and out. That's merely a good signs to visualize for further profitable changes.

[dunfida]

I just can't see them buying their tampons with it.

I fully agree.  I'd have a hard time convincing myself to spend bitcoin for something I could just as easily buy with fiat.  For me, bitcoin has always been for keeping.  Cash is for spending.

Neither do I, didnt really see a reason to spend out my BTC just for a thing that i can easily purchase with fiat since we do have in mind that BTC is more worth to be hold on.

ha no $3k or $1500 is not gonna happen. I don't know why anyone would think that would happen. The market has been very clear all year that $6000 is the bottom and any price below that is unacceptable to the market. $6000 is the firmly established bottom of the market, if you want $3000 or $1500 you should have bought the first half of last year.

The price of Bitcoin isn't stable, it is just in the relatively stable phase as it transitions between bear and bull market. This is normal and to be expected. The bear market has ended, the bull market won't begin for a bit longer (maybe by end of this year), so in between the bear and bull forces are cancelling each other out and we get a fairly stable price at the bottom of the market before the next long incoming bull run begins.

Anything is possible with bitcoins price even its already unbelievable to got below into that price points there would be always a tendency yet theres no such bottom price when it comes to it.
We can somehow conclude some stuffs because we have seen theres a strong support on 6k but that isnt a guaranteed thing.

[BitHodler]

Does anyone honestly expect it to become an everyday currency? I never have.

I actually can see it happen at some point in the future. It will however come down to how well the lightning network functions, and how the current routing problems will be taken care of.

Bitcoin as decentralized protocol will never be able to overtake the usability and convenience that fiat offers, but we can definitely expect a tremendous improvement making it catch up on fiat more than central banks are comfortable with.

At the end of the day, people should be using that what gets the job done in the most efficient way. For some that will be fiat, and others really need that what Bitcoin has to offer, especially in third world countries.

[figmentofmyass]

I mean, I expected it to become an every-day currency for the things I did, and to an extent it worked well for that (buying/selling goods and services online, on steam, etc.). However, for the general public, I doubt it would work out. I agree that there will always be something about BTC that retailers will find to deny working with it.

It's absolutely superb for retailers - no chargebacks, permanent settlement within an hour or so and can be accepted worldwide. It's consumers who have no incentive to use it at all. Retailers would have to heavily discount to entice non believers and the margins aren't there in most areas.

it's even worse because consumers have incentives to use credit cards over bitcoin: credit cards protect them. bitcoin doesn't.

with credit cards, if a merchant even hints they're going to screw you on damaged or defective goods or services not rendered, you can just charge back and easily recover your money.

then there's cash back, frequent flyer miles, etc. it's tough to compete with that.

[rickadone]

tired of stability eh?

12 hours after the OP: price spikes 20% on bitfinex in less than 2 hours.

we broke out past $7430, so that's the first higher high we've seen since the crash last year. i know there's some weird stuff happening fundamentally with bitfinex, but in my experience, these technical breakouts don't get ignored.

They really do not get ignored at all. Firstly, this is something that we obviously were expecting as the market has been moving inside a triangle for a while and obviously in such scenario, there is always a possibility of break out to the upper side most of the time.

This is a market, and people should get used to the fact that market will not just start spiking pretty much or just going down like that, it develops and even as volatile as the market can be, it all depends on how each individual gets to see things. For me though, I want to assume this is a good break out and let's see how this week's candle closes.

[Ucy]

Well, Satoshi did not create Bitcoin for the so retail and wholesale people. He created Bitcoin for you & I to hold, be our own bank and trade Bitcoin Peer-to-peer. Stuff like this are pure deviation that will likely centralize Bitcoin in the long run. And once it is centralized,  ideological crypto enthusiasts will have something to criticize about.

However, if bitcoin price is not stable within a range there is not going to be adoptions

No, there is going to be adoptions. And Bitcoin is not designed to be stable. A stable price means it becomes inflationary like mere fiat.

Finally centralized/ Institutional adoption will destroy the ideals of Bitcoin because they will buy Bitcoin and sell to people just like centralized exchanges do.

Bitcoin was meant to be different from PayPal but it seems they are gradually turning into PayPal in the name of adoption.

[cellard]

Well, Satoshi did not create Bitcoin for the so retail and wholesale people. He created Bitcoin for you & I to hold, be our own bank and trade Bitcoin Peer-to-peer. Stuff like this are pure deviation that will likely centralize Bitcoin in the long run. And once it is centralized,  ideological crypto enthusiasts will have something to criticize about.

However, if bitcoin price is not stable within a range there is not going to be adoptions

No, there is going to be adoptions. And Bitcoin is not designed to be stable. A stable price means it becomes inflationary like mere fiat.

Finally centralized/ Institutional adoption will destroy the ideals of Bitcoin because they will buy Bitcoin and sell to people just like centralized exchanges do.

Bitcoin was meant to be different from PayPal but it seems they are gradually turning into PayPal in the name of adoption.

I don't know what satoshi had in mind when it comes to retail usage/adoption, but (again assuming he was a real person and not some team with hidden agendas and whatnot) he was smart enough to know that the price would be either "a lot" or "0" in the long term, as quoted in one of his posts here or perhaps in the mailing list.

Anyway, the point is, he knew the price would keep going up, which gives an incentive for people to hoard it. Whether he saw that this would make it less interesting to use to make your groceries with or not I don't know. Im sure he did know but may not have mentioned it explicitly. The point is, your local fiat must collapse for people to spontaneously start using bitcoin out of necessity, until then, it's a better gold (which is more than enough for it to be awesome, I mean c'mon, we didn't had this only less than 10 years ago).

By the time fiat actually collapses, we will hopefully have fast, cheap transactions for retail payments, and all long term holders will be rich and ready to spend their coins.

[mornabo]

For some of us that has been speculating that bitcoin is going to pull back to $3,000 and $1500 I don't think the current stability is going to allow that to come to pass and for those that said bitcoin is to moon,  maybe above $20,000 the stability is still not going to allow that to happen.  However,  if bitcoin price is not stable within a range there is not going to be adoptions buy retail and wholesale business. Stability of price is what will help bitcoin become  acceptable.

Bitcoin price isn't always stable since it's inception. Until there is a hype now way it can become stable.

Since that is the scenario, we are the one who have to adjust for it. Why there are merchants accepts crypto even the price is volatile? Why there are people who are into crypto that still use crypto in some of the service? Why other countries legalized bitcoin? These kind of question is enough for you to understand that even with the volatile price of bitcoin, an increase in adoption can always take place as there are lots of reasons why people used bitcoin even how volatile it was.

You just have to trust the process.

I think most bitcoin users don't make a problem from the fluctuations, because with that they can gain profits quickly, and you know bitcoin adoption is normal even though fluctuations exist. but the problem here is that prices sometimes stabilized, and now stabilized in the range of $6k- $7k for a long time, and I don't think retailers will accept bitcoin just because prices are sometimes stable

[buwaytress]

Okay, what I need to understand is why are we suddenly talking about stability and stablecoins a lot in recent weeks? I know anything Bitcoin speculation tends to go in cycles, but I thought we'd already ridden the last stablecoin wave, moved on to crypto index and stable baskets... Volatile patterns aren't going away anytime soon, and speculators aren't going to wish it away anytime soon.

Seriously, what's the big deal? We know Bitcoin is like this and we've known it for years.

[iv4n]

For some of us that has been speculating that bitcoin is going to pull back to $3,000 and $1500 I don't think the current stability is going to allow that to come to pass and for those that said bitcoin is to moon,  maybe above $20,000 the stability is still not going to allow that to happen.  However,  if bitcoin price is not stable within a range there is not going to be adoptions buy retail and wholesale business. Stability of price is what will help bitcoin become  acceptable.

Bitcoin price isn't always stable since it's inception. Until there is a hype now way it can become stable.

Since that is the scenario, we are the one who have to adjust for it. Why there are merchants accepts crypto even the price is volatile? Why there are people who are into crypto that still use crypto in some of the service? Why other countries legalized bitcoin? These kind of question is enough for you to understand that even with the volatile price of bitcoin, an increase in adoption can always take place as there are lots of reasons why people used bitcoin even how volatile it was.

You just have to trust the process.

I think most bitcoin users don't make a problem from the fluctuations, because with that they can gain profits quickly, and you know bitcoin adoption is normal even though fluctuations exist. but the problem here is that prices sometimes stabilized, and now stabilized in the range of $6k- $7k for a long time, and I don't think retailers will accept bitcoin just because prices are sometimes stable

What to not like here? Bitcoin price have nice swings, I had some nice trades in past few months. Op is a bit confused with crypto market, its far from stable and even if we have stable price it will jot be a guarantee for anything, especially for wide adoption.
Market moves depending on our actions, our trades, normally whales affect market more with their huge trades, but each of us affect it. What will happen with market, it will grow and grow. We can't expect price to be stable with so many people who trade, with supply and demand that are never calm, price can't be stable.

[Tapyaks72]

For some of us that has been speculating that bitcoin is going to pull back to $3,000 and $1500 I don't think the current stability is going to allow that to come to pass and for those that said bitcoin is to moon,  maybe above $20,000 the stability is still not going to allow that to happen.  However,  if bitcoin price is not stable within a range there is not going to be adoptions buy retail and wholesale business. Stability of price is what will help bitcoin become  acceptable.

Bitcoin price isn't always stable since it's inception. Until there is a hype now way it can become stable.

Since that is the scenario, we are the one who have to adjust for it. Why there are merchants accepts crypto even the price is volatile? Why there are people who are into crypto that still use crypto in some of the service? Why other countries legalized bitcoin? These kind of question is enough for you to understand that even with the volatile price of bitcoin, an increase in adoption can always take place as there are lots of reasons why people used bitcoin even how volatile it was.

You just have to trust the process.

I think most bitcoin users don't make a problem from the fluctuations, because with that they can gain profits quickly, and you know bitcoin adoption is normal even though fluctuations exist. but the problem here is that prices sometimes stabilized, and now stabilized in the range of $6k- $7k for a long time, and I don't think retailers will accept bitcoin just because prices are sometimes stable

What to not like here? Bitcoin price have nice swings, I had some nice trades in past few months. Op is a bit confused with crypto market, its far from stable and even if we have stable price it will jot be a guarantee for anything, especially for wide adoption.
Market moves depending on our actions, our trades, normally whales affect market more with their huge trades, but each of us affect it. What will happen with market, it will grow and grow. We can't expect price to be stable with so many people who trade, with supply and demand that are never calm, price can't be stable.

Yeah supply and demand is certainly is the factors of price  movement, and the results of traders movement's, but usually when the big whales will create a big splash of the prices, if you are trader you should also have a sense lf predictions and know to analyze the price trail.

[cellard]

Okay, what I need to understand is why are we suddenly talking about stability and stablecoins a lot in recent weeks? I know anything Bitcoin speculation tends to go in cycles, but I thought we'd already ridden the last stablecoin wave, moved on to crypto index and stable baskets... Volatile patterns aren't going away anytime soon, and speculators aren't going to wish it away anytime soon.

Seriously, what's the big deal? We know Bitcoin is like this and we've known it for years.

Because a lot of people are new and have only been through the period of bubble-burst and not throw the period of a stable-ish (in bitcoins standard), which is precisely when the smart people are paying attention, that means, no mention of bitcoin on most mainstream local media, since they only report on bitcoin when:

1) It's going up a lot
2) It's going down a lot

They miss the long periods of a stable price, this stable price being an higher floor than the previous stable price, which as a result points to a long term bull that never stopped. Most people are too short sighted to see that and accumulate when the noobs aren't around anymore (until the net moon rocket which is when they will flock back in)