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Author Topic: Economic implications of merits  (Read 301 times)
bluefirecorp_
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October 18, 2018, 08:21:44 PM
 #1

So, while thinking thinking about the sMerits I occasionally gain led to thinking how to abuse said merits.

One of the ways would be to offer rewards of merits for meritable post, but atlas, meta is filled with those shitposts already.

However, not many of them have included specific requirements. If I were to offer merits in return of novel ideas or specific information, that would be meritable (as it would be a valuable post to me), I'm not sure how much that's abusing the system, a grey area of rules.

For example, a post; "I'll send over a merit to anyone that fetches me a working liquid hydrogen jet engine".

The problem is, this sort of post would belong in services. However, merit's really not supposed to have an economic implication, so it doesn't really belong in the marketplace.

What are your feelings on this situation or abuse of token?

---

I'm leaving out the fact that I have 0 sMerit, which means if someone could fetch my very specific request, there's no actual guarantee of payment (which is where the trust system comes in).

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October 18, 2018, 08:32:02 PM
 #2

For example, a post; "I'll send over a merit to anyone that fetches me a working liquid hydrogen jet engine".
This to me wouldn't be any abuse of merits whatsoever,i think it's been said over and over again that merits are awarded when someone is contributing to the forum or assisting another member in one way or the other..

If someone provides you with that information(a working liquid hydrogen jet engine),definitely the user is of assistance to you,and handing out a merit to him/her shouldn't be much of a problem

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October 18, 2018, 08:33:30 PM
Merited by Foxpup (2), dbshck (2)
 #3

If you're offering merits to someone who writes a post giving you an answer that's valuable to you, I would say that's totally fine.  Hell, I've merited posts that were nothing more than funny memes that made me laugh--and some de-ranked Newbies had a fit when I last did that, but I don't consider it merit abuse by a long shot.

However, if you're offering merits as a reward for someone providing a service or goods to you that has nothing to do with making a post, then I'd say it's not kosher.  That's pretty much the same thing as selling merits, and that will get you tagged.

The bottom line is that the merit system is supposed to be used solely for the purpose of rewarding quality posts and not as a financial instrument.  I realize very well how valuable merits are, which is why low-ranked members will pay money for them, but they shouldn't be used as a token for payment.

For example, a post; "I'll send over a merit to anyone that fetches me a working liquid hydrogen jet engine".
This to me wouldn't be any abuse of merits whatsoever,i think it's been said over and over again that merits are awarded when someone is contributing to the forum or assisting another member in one way or the other..
Yes, but in that example he would be getting a liquid hydrogen jet engine and not a post on bitcointalk about the same.  There's a big difference IMO.  I'd definitely like to hear others' opinions on this, though I'm pretty convinced my position is solid.

bluefirecorp_
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October 18, 2018, 08:43:31 PM
 #4

If you're offering merits to someone who writes a post giving you an answer that's valuable to you, I would say that's totally fine.  Hell, I've merited posts that were nothing more than funny memes that made me laugh--and some de-ranked Newbies had a fit when I last did that, but I don't consider it merit abuse by a long shot.

Neat. This is the answer I was looking for. So, modifying the example;

'I'll send over a merit to anyone that fetches me working liquid hydrogen jet engine schematics"

Would be entirely fine?
The Pharmacist
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October 18, 2018, 08:57:19 PM
 #5

'I'll send over a merit to anyone that fetches me working liquid hydrogen jet engine schematics"

Would be entirely fine?
In my opinion that would be completely fine, because it would be a post you found valuable.  But other opinions may vary.  However, I don't think if you made the offer like that it would get you into any sort of trouble.  Tagging merit abusers is inconsistent at best, and what you proposed sounds like it would be a gray area at worst--and probably not even that in some members' eyes.

bluefirecorp_
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October 18, 2018, 09:17:15 PM
 #6

'I'll send over a merit to anyone that fetches me working liquid hydrogen jet engine schematics"

Would be entirely fine?
In my opinion that would be completely fine, because it would be a post you found valuable.  But other opinions may vary.  However, I don't think if you made the offer like that it would get you into any sort of trouble.  Tagging merit abusers is inconsistent at best, and what you proposed sounds like it would be a gray area at worst--and probably not even that in some members' eyes.

That's interesting. Now let's take it another step.

I've noticed when I'm merited, I sometimes get an sMerit. This allows individuals to pool merit into me for information they would also like to have. This would allow me to operate as a sub-fractional reserve (centralizing merit distribution with a bit of entropy).

For example;

Alice, Bob, Sue, John all want a new forum software, but aren't really sure what all needs done to make that happen. A centralized project manager could pool merit in exchange for information regarding the production of forum software.

For example, building a forum software requires several layers:
"fetch me a gnatt chart of the sdlc of new forum software"
and
"fetch me a scalable platform design for forum software"
and
"fetch me a piece of code that can query a specific subset of information regarding this forum software"
and
etc...

--

I'm not really sure how that's indistinguishable from any other token in that case. Other than merit being exchanges for information rather than goods, it's not very different than other currencies.
Quickseller
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October 18, 2018, 09:17:52 PM
 #7

Quote
If you're offering merits to someone who writes a post giving you an answer that's valuable to you, I would say that's totally fine.  Hell, I've merited posts that were nothing more than funny memes that made me laugh--and some de-ranked Newbies had a fit when I last did that, but I don't consider it merit abuse by a long shot.

However, if you're offering merits as a reward for someone providing a service or goods to you that has nothing to do with making a post, then I'd say it's not kosher.
What if you are offa merit in exchange for posting some kind of research that would normally warrant a payment? Such a post might normally receive merit however it would probably also warrant an offer of payment from the person soliciting the information.

I also regularly receive what is basically someone begging for merit. I often review their post history and decline to respond. However one might argue that it would be fair to charge for my valuable time to review someone’s posts, especially if they post in topics uninteresting to me. It would probably be unfair to charge to review posts and end up not giving a merit.

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October 19, 2018, 04:59:11 AM
Merited by Foxpup (1)
 #8

I also regularly receive what is basically someone begging for merit. I often review their post history and decline to respond. However one might argue that it would be fair to charge for my valuable time to review someone’s posts, especially if they post in topics uninteresting to me. It would probably be unfair to charge to review posts and end up not giving a merit.

Quit inventing non-existing arguments to support your delusional account farmer ideology. Merits are voluntary and if you don't want to review posts - don't do that.

Mpamaegbu
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October 19, 2018, 05:12:45 AM
 #9

Yes, but in that example he would be getting a liquid hydrogen jet engine and not a post on bitcointalk about the same.  There's a big difference IMO.  I'd definitely like to hear others' opinions on this, though I'm pretty convinced my position is solid.
Yes, I quite agree that your positions on issues are often conservative but I can't help but agree with you on this. The scenario painted is trade by barter. And in this case it would be exchanging sMerit for the supposed commodity in quote. That wasn't the notion why Theymos made the merit system. It's intended for posts and comments.

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NeuroticFish
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October 19, 2018, 05:36:43 AM
Merited by suchmoon (4)
 #10

'I'll send over a merit to anyone that fetches me working liquid hydrogen jet engine schematics"

Would be entirely fine?
In my opinion that would be completely fine, because it would be a post you found valuable.  But other opinions may vary.  However, I don't think if you made the offer like that it would get you into any sort of trouble.  Tagging merit abusers is inconsistent at best, and what you proposed sounds like it would be a gray area at worst--and probably not even that in some members' eyes.

In my opinion this is also not OK, I would also see this as a merit trade.
In my opinion this should be like:
"Can anybody help me with working liquid hydrogen jet engine schematics?"
Then, if you get some good enough answers, you can choose to award them with merit points or not (in case you have sMerit).

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October 19, 2018, 07:08:20 AM
 #11

In my opinion this is also not OK, I would also see this as a merit trade.
In my opinion this should be like:
"Can anybody help me with working liquid hydrogen jet engine schematics?"
Then, if you get some good enough answers, you can choose to award them with merit points or not (in case you have sMerit).
I do not see how this could be regarded as a merit trade,he happens to be neither selling merits nor giving them out for low quality topics/responce..

He's sort of setting out a challenge for users to get info that'll be of assistance to him..

I've also seen numerous users in here who request newbies to post in a particular thread and anyone found meritable would be sent a merit..here's an example of such 
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5034945.0
Looks quite alike to me
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October 19, 2018, 07:15:36 AM
Merited by suchmoon (4)
 #12

If you're offering merits to someone who writes a post giving you an answer that's valuable to you, I would say that's totally fine.  Hell, I've merited posts that were nothing more than funny memes that made me laugh--and some de-ranked Newbies had a fit when I last did that, but I don't consider it merit abuse by a long shot.

We must remember that the merit system isn`t objective. It depends entirely on the particular subject. We receive merits from a specific user and send to a certain person for a distinct post. If you personally consider this or that comment valuable and regard it as useful for yourself, you can safely send merit to the author. I don`t consider this a violation of forum rules.

We all constantly hear the phrase "make the contribution to the forum". But what does it really mean? The bitcointalk forum isn`t just a website on the Internet that requires technical support from its visitors. These are, first of all, people who participate in communication. And the merit system was created to make this communication more qualitative, substantive and reasoned. If you personally regard any post as valuable and you can explain why you think so, then you have every right to give a person a merit. After all, each of us understands what a “high-quality” comment means in different ways.
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October 19, 2018, 07:21:21 AM
 #13

In my opinion this is also not OK, I would also see this as a merit trade.
I do not see how this could be regarded as a merit trade,he happens to be neither selling merits nor giving them out for low quality topics/responce..

And this means that different people can have different views on the same matter. Is that so strange?


There's an interesting nuance: OP wrote "You may get reward in form of merit at the end." (as opposed to "I'll send")
Also, it's more like a newbie trap, from start to end, so imho it's far from the best possible example.

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November 11, 2018, 05:01:19 AM
 #14

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5067128.msg47781049#msg47781049

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5064005.msg47624705#msg47624705

Just trying it out.

Seems to be going alright, but I'm low on sMerits. Hopefully the advertising guys don't feel scammed when they don't get merits  Cheesy
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