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Waradlain (OP)
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November 29, 2018, 04:28:47 PM
 #41

My thread is still alive but definitely went the wrong way.

put in place actual open fascists...

I know that you like to demand proof so now it's my time to ask. This is quite bold statement, so I'm sure that you got some.



I can prove the fascism, but I think what you are asking is for me to prove that Western intelligence agencies overthrew the elected government. This is always going to be largely debatable due to the very nature of the business of this criminal activity, and the need for plausible deniability, but I think you know this and are taking advantage of this situation. If you want information regarding fascism in the Ukraine let me know I will provide sources.

If you actually have interest in the details of how it was done start a thread about the topic and I will chime in, however I suspect you did this to try to give the impression that I don't meet my own standards of evidence. The difference is this is a related side issue, not the core topic of discussion, and I demand evidence for direct arguments in support of a premise. You are nitpicking a tertiary issue of a somewhat casual discussion.

I won't start anything. You came to my thread with a serious allegation, I expect that you have strong evidence of this since we can't assume that your an empty windbag.
So again please

put in place actual open fascists...




TECSHARE
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November 30, 2018, 04:34:03 AM
 #42

My thread is still alive but definitely went the wrong way.

put in place actual open fascists...

I know that you like to demand proof so now it's my time to ask. This is quite bold statement, so I'm sure that you got some.



I can prove the fascism, but I think what you are asking is for me to prove that Western intelligence agencies overthrew the elected government. This is always going to be largely debatable due to the very nature of the business of this criminal activity, and the need for plausible deniability, but I think you know this and are taking advantage of this situation. If you want information regarding fascism in the Ukraine let me know I will provide sources.

If you actually have interest in the details of how it was done start a thread about the topic and I will chime in, however I suspect you did this to try to give the impression that I don't meet my own standards of evidence. The difference is this is a related side issue, not the core topic of discussion, and I demand evidence for direct arguments in support of a premise. You are nitpicking a tertiary issue of a somewhat casual discussion.

I won't start anything. You came to my thread with a serious allegation, I expect that you have strong evidence of this since we can't assume that your an empty windbag.
So again please

put in place actual open fascists...


I already responded to your criticism, and stated I am more than willing to discuss it. Due to the inherently speculative nature of how real world intelligence operations operate systematically erasing as much data leaving a trail to them as possible, a discussion about this would be quite expansive to the point of being quite off topic in this thread, something which I am not willing to risk to satiate your demands. If you start another thread to discuss this side topic in more detail I would be glad to there, I will however not be addressing it further here.

Anyways lets start with what is already in the open:

http://liberationschool.org/the-roots-of-fascism-in-ukraine/

https://off-guardian.org/2016/11/05/ukraine-fascisms-toe-hold-in-europe/

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/29/ukraine-fascists-oligarchs-eu-nato-expansion

https://medium.com/@gmochannel/us-staged-a-coup-in-ukraine-brief-history-and-facts-898c6d0007d6

https://readersupportednews.org/opinion2/277-75/22758-meet-the-americans-who-put-together-the-coup-in-kiev

Obama admitted that the United States “had brokered a deal to transition power in Ukraine.”

https://www.rt.com/op-ed/228379-obama-power-transition-ukraine/


https://sputniknews.com/news/201502021017670687/

https://www.rt.com/news/233439-us-meddling-ukraine-crisis/

https://www.rt.com/news/158800-us-biden-ukraine-gas/


​Ron Paul: Western powers fomenting Ukrainian conflict, US should ‘stay out’  

https://www.rt.com/usa/156512-ron-paul-ukraine-war/

Waradlain (OP)
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November 30, 2018, 10:27:00 AM
 #43

^__^

Actually expected you put some specific names here.
I see here RT&Sputnik links so won't even open it because after a story with a crucified boy, no self-respecting person will ever read this trash. To understand the idiocy level, it's enough to remember that this piece hit the "Motherland" tv series as an extremely clumsy work of Russian propaganda.
For those who missed this beauty
https://vidos.top/v/1802268.mp4?st=6Hu2hxnX5Jgr_AP3UraGMg&e=1543578715




https://off-guardian.org/2016/11/05/ukraine-fascisms-toe-hold-in-europe/
Oleh Tyahnybok is considered a nationalist in Ukraine, but at the same time has been spotted in connections with Russians. I remind you that in 2014 it was his proposal to ban Russian language that was happily taken up by Russian propaganda and provoked violence in Donbas. Nevertheless, in 2014 his party gained 4.71% and now not even on the map.


https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/29/ukraine-fascists-oligarchs-eu-nato-expansion
Quote
On the 2014 annexation of Crimea, Milne wrote that "western aggression and lawless killing is on another scale entirely from anything Russia appears to have contemplated, let alone carried out – removing any credible basis for the US and its allies to rail against Russian transgressions",[89] and has described the annexation as "clearly defensive",[90] asserting that "the crisis in Ukraine is a product of the disastrous Versailles-style break-up of the Soviet Union in the early 1990s".[89] Oliver Bullough, a journalist who formerly lived in Russia, disagreed with this view, asserting that "the destruction of the USSR was not some Versailles-style treaty imposed from outside.

Srsly? You want me to reply that?

http://liberationschool.org/the-roots-of-fascism-in-ukraine/

Quote
Svoboda took a strong leadership position in the Euromaidan coup that grew from a non-violent protest to a militant takeover of the country when far-right organizers began attacking, and eventually killing 17 while injuring nearly 300 law enforcement and anti-EU demonstrators.
Let's start with the fact that there were no "anti-EU demonstrators". There were people from the regions who were brought to Kyiv to the paid "rally".
Author for some reason forgot to mention more than a hundred protesters killed by snipers.

Quote
The Donbass War arose in 2014 when the residents of the Donetsk and Lugansk Oblasts took up arms against the Ukrainian junta and declared themselves independent republics
There was no war between the residents of the Donetsk and Lugansk Oblasts and Ukrainian junta(sic). Russian military (personnel and retired) came to the region and began to seize administrative buildings. That's how it started.

I won't continue because the whole article is written in this vein.
I feel like I ate shit.
To summarize, I want to say that you've proved that all you can do is talk rubbish based on dubious sources.



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November 30, 2018, 06:09:50 PM
Last edit: December 18, 2018, 08:16:08 AM by TECSHARE
 #44


Actually expected you put some specific names here.
I see here RT&Sputnik links so won't even open it because after a story with a crucified boy, no self-respecting person will ever read this trash. To understand the idiocy level, it's enough to remember that this piece hit the "Motherland" tv series as an extremely clumsy work of Russian propaganda.
For those who missed this beauty
https://vidos.top/v/1802268.mp4?st=6Hu2hxnX5Jgr_AP3UraGMg&e=1543578715




https://off-guardian.org/2016/11/05/ukraine-fascisms-toe-hold-in-europe/
Oleh Tyahnybok is considered a nationalist in Ukraine, but at the same time has been spotted in connections with Russians. I remind you that in 2014 it was his proposal to ban Russian language that was happily taken up by Russian propaganda and provoked violence in Donbas. Nevertheless, in 2014 his party gained 4.71% and now not even on the map.


https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/29/ukraine-fascists-oligarchs-eu-nato-expansion
Quote
On the 2014 annexation of Crimea, Milne wrote that "western aggression and lawless killing is on another scale entirely from anything Russia appears to have contemplated, let alone carried out – removing any credible basis for the US and its allies to rail against Russian transgressions",[89] and has described the annexation as "clearly defensive",[90] asserting that "the crisis in Ukraine is a product of the disastrous Versailles-style break-up of the Soviet Union in the early 1990s".[89] Oliver Bullough, a journalist who formerly lived in Russia, disagreed with this view, asserting that "the destruction of the USSR was not some Versailles-style treaty imposed from outside.

Srsly? You want me to reply that?

Quote
Svoboda took a strong leadership position in the Euromaidan coup that grew from a non-violent protest to a militant takeover of the country when far-right organizers began attacking, and eventually killing 17 while injuring nearly 300 law enforcement and anti-EU demonstrators.
Let's start with the fact that there were no "anti-EU demonstrators". There were people from the regions who were brought to Kyiv to the paid "rally".
Author for some reason forgot to mention more than a hundred protesters killed by snipers.

Quote
The Donbass War arose in 2014 when the residents of the Donetsk and Lugansk Oblasts took up arms against the Ukrainian junta and declared themselves independent republics
There was no war between the residents of the Donetsk and Lugansk Oblasts and Ukrainian junta(sic). Russian military (personnel and retired) came to the region and began to seize administrative buildings. That's how it started.

I won't continue because the whole article is written in this vein.
I feel like I ate shit.
To summarize, I want to say that you've proved that all you can do is talk rubbish based on dubious sources.

Hey if you can't argue the contents, attack the source. It is a lot simpler. I am not claiming every last word in those sources are reputable, but they also contain documentation of matters of fact, events, quotes, history that can be verified via 3rd party sources. This premise is by no means some fringe conspiracy theory is the point as this is a widely held view outside of the general Western MSM echo chamber. This is covert warfare, nothing is ever going to be clearly outlined, or be exactly what it appears to be. I have nothing else to say on this topic unless you want to start a specific thread related to it, as it is too far off topic for this one.

That said, once again this is yet aanother side issue and red herring to distract from the more relevant point that Crimea was a CRITICAL STRATEGIC MILITARY ASSET for Russia. Without this, their only warm water port, their navy would be largely neutered. Now this is not justification for any of their actions, past the point of maybe an argument for self preservation of the nation. Given the historical relationship between the two nations, I don't see them taking control of the military base/port as completely unexpected or unreasonable.

It would be like if the US had a military base in Puerto Rico forever and it suddenly declared independence, only the US wouldn't depend on a base in Puerto Rico, Russia does depend on controlling their base in Crimea however. In such an instance I don't think many nations would try to stand in the way of the US maintaining its base if it had such a critical relationship to its national security.
Waradlain (OP)
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December 17, 2018, 09:39:44 AM
 #45

Quote
“What is clear is that all of the messaging clearly sought to benefit the Republican Party — and specifically Donald Trump,” the report says. “Trump is mentioned most in campaigns targeting conservatives and right-wing voters, where the messaging encouraged these groups to support his campaign. The main groups that could challenge Trump were then provided messaging that sought to confuse, distract and ultimately discourage members from voting.”

Quote
Researchers also noted that the data includes evidence of sloppiness by the Russians that could have led to earlier detection, including the use of Russia’s currency, the ruble, to buy ads and Russian phone numbers for contact information. The operatives also left behind technical signatures in computerized logs, such as Internet addresses in St. Petersburg, where the IRA was based.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2018/12/16/new-report-russian-disinformation-prepared-senate-shows-operations-scale-sweep/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.e7064a2e96bf



Can anyone explain why such "investigations" leak so slowly and so meteredly? As we understand that all info has long been collected and ready to be published.
SCheek
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December 17, 2018, 12:47:51 PM
 #46

IRA in action.

They're here too, not just twitter.

Thought you meant the irish IRA. Must be awake working at the IRA for that reason.

It seems to me that this whole russian bot thing is massively over hyped. I doubt their influence is nearly as big as everyone thinks. It was proved recently that russia only spent $4,000 on the US election in 2016

TECSHARE
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December 17, 2018, 02:16:14 PM
 #47

Quote
“What is clear is that all of the messaging clearly sought to benefit the Republican Party — and specifically Donald Trump,” the report says. “Trump is mentioned most in campaigns targeting conservatives and right-wing voters, where the messaging encouraged these groups to support his campaign. The main groups that could challenge Trump were then provided messaging that sought to confuse, distract and ultimately discourage members from voting.”

Quote
Researchers also noted that the data includes evidence of sloppiness by the Russians that could have led to earlier detection, including the use of Russia’s currency, the ruble, to buy ads and Russian phone numbers for contact information. The operatives also left behind technical signatures in computerized logs, such as Internet addresses in St. Petersburg, where the IRA was based.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2018/12/16/new-report-russian-disinformation-prepared-senate-shows-operations-scale-sweep/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.e7064a2e96bf



Can anyone explain why such "investigations" leak so slowly and so meteredly? As we understand that all info has long been collected and ready to be published.

Yeah, your article behind a paywall is very convincing. "As you understand" you need to understand you have been sold a load of horse shit, and think you have a barrel of apples. Bite into one and see how it tastes.
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