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 Author Topic: PoW vs PoS- Proof-of-Stake Might be the Winner here (Save the Environment)  (Read 1114 times)
ClintonJ
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 October 24, 2018, 07:56:15 PM

I am researching how the Bitcoin is affecting our environment adversely . Yes we can’t leave Bitcoin but also we have to adopt a new way for the survival.
In my Previous article I have discussed about the consequences of Bitcoin Mining >> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5056073.0

Bitcoin relies on Proof-of-Work and really its troublesome, How ? Lets check >>

Proof of Work:

The concept of PoW is created even before the birth of Bitcoin. The Original Idea was published by Cynthia Dwork and Moni Naor in the year of 1993. But thats the idea stage only. In 1999 The term “Proof of Work” is coined by  Markus Jakobson. It is the Form of answer of a mathematical problem or puzzle. It is required a tons of works to reach the final result. Now if we tire up the Bitcoin and the Pow we will get the idea. The one and only way to solve this equation is solve the nodes on the certain network. The result we get through a long process and successive steps. For detail we need to acquire the primitive knowledge of Consensus.

So what is Consensus
Consensus is just a “general agreement”  which is an important component of blockchain technology. Rather than power for keeping accounts being centralized in a solitary substance, similar to a bank or centralized online installment framework, cryptocurrency utilizes conveyed ledgers or blockchains to record data. Along these lines, a general agreement is expected to record data, for example, the parity of each address, exchanges, and so on the blockchain. All accord instruments plan to anchor the network by making it costly to assault the network and more beneficial to help ensure it.

Here are the consensus mechanisms for blockchain are
• Proof of Work (PoW)
• Proof of Stake (PoS)
• Delegated Proof of Stake (DPoS)

Both Bitcoin and Ethereum use PoW mechanism. Be that as it may, engineers of Ethereum are attempting to move to PoS accord component on account of several downsides of the PoW system.

Cons of PoW
• 1.     Real Bad- Tremendous Energy Consumption:
The rate of energy consumption is huge , we could talk about the genuine information and reality sheet.  I heard in a month of last year, the Bitcoin and Bitcoin Cash networks alone used 0.14% of the total energy consumption in the world, which is considerably more than numerous entire nations. The usage is higher , we can conclude.

• 2.   Electricity to Heat(Just producing Heat who failed to solve the puzzle)
Could you guys estimate the number of machine , which are failed to solve the math or heavy puzzles through the PoW., I know its the theme of the task to maintain the security but thousands of computers/asics are running the doing the math s on the network that don’t “win” a given block puzzle , so they are just converting electricity to heat.

• 3.   The rate of Electricity is not same:

There are two sectors for dumping electricity , one is the mining rig and other is the environment. For hot countries , we have to maintain the environment of the rig also. For that in some cases we need 2X electricity for mining.Not everywhere in the world has cheap electricity.
[/list]

So, Mining pools are established in a relatively small number of geographic areas, like having the cool environment for free of cost. Like the countries having their temperature down less than 10 degree are more likely to  adopt the advantages.

Again The Ironic Truth
The ironic Truth is that blockchains and cryptocurrencies are created to establish a new economic system. But it requires fiat transactions to acquire electricity to operate.

Now looking for a Solution , is it viable to rethink the idea of Bitcoin, is there any way capable enough to pursue the existing conventional technology.

Is Proof-of-Stake(PoS) the Winner
Proof of stake is originally designed to solve the current problem for PoW’s energy intensive process. In PoW , it just blended with tons of useless puzzles and mathematical problem. The main theme in PoS lies on the staking of the coins which is eventually derived as “Proof of Stakes”.  This  systems have the same purpose of validating transactions and achieving consensus.

No more mathematical puzzle

In this system Way to Create a Block
the creator of a new block is chosen in a deterministic way based on their stake which might put positive effect on the long term basis . The higher quantity of reserved coins , the higher chance to create a Block.

Will it take positive effect on the Market (Right or Wrong)
You guys might think Miners might be responsible for the market volatility. They just pay the electricity cost for running the rigs.  As a whole mining is expensive ,so  you can’t blame miners for selling a bit in hurry. Even in bearish market there might be a consequences, if there’s not much demand for a coin, this certain activity pushes the price down.  In this proof of Stakes system , it ensures you price stability is because it gives the person more incentive to keep the coin than to sell. Holding will be the main key for the miners in a sense. I know its not 100% correct. But it has some positive perspective.

One thing we all agree with - The Core Formula of  Decentralization (Blockchain)
Countries having contributed to the hashing power will get higher chance to solve the complex puzzle faster. Inside that situation, stakers would understand that the more you hold, the more costly your coins would get.

BUT still PoS system also consists some critical problems.
Monopoly is the Main Curse Again —Holding a ton of coins, Will dominate the rewards.

I am not new in this forum , but still suffers to get merits. If you think i am capable enough , please tip me a merit. It will boost my speed.
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aliashraf
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Always remember the cause!

 October 24, 2018, 08:59:25 PMMerited by dbshck (2), ETFbitcoin (1), bitmover (1)

Wish this forum had kinda negative merit and I had a chance to give a ton of it to guys who bring forward their failed and worthless ideas about PoS here.

Pos is the most stupid idea in cryptocurrency, what stake they are talking about after all? There is nothing at stake once you look close enough. And I'm sick of this fake environmentalism. You want to save the environment? Produce green electricity or convince Trump to abandon coal industry or at least not to expand it.

Bitcoin consumes energy for a very good reason; setting money free, besides healthcare and education I don't know any other use case for electricity more useful than bitcoin PoW.

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bitmover
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 October 24, 2018, 10:05:28 PM

Wish this forum had kinda negative merit and I had a chance to give a ton of it to guys who bring forward their failed and worthless ideas about PoS here.

Pos is the most stupid idea in cryptocurrency, what stake they are talking about after all? There is nothing at stake once you look close enough. And I'm sick of this fake environmentalism. You want to save the environment? Produce green electricity or convince Trump to abandon coal industry or at least not to expand it.

Bitcoin consumes energy for a very good reason; setting money free, besides healthcare and education I don't know any other use case for electricity more useful than bitcoin PoW.

I think that this ideia to that "bitcoin is bad to the environment" is just bullshit.

Global warming is the biggest scam. When they couldn't hide anymore that he Earth was actually getting cooler, they changed to name to climate change.

To "save the environment" we need better societies worldwide. I believe bitcoin is a good step forward in that direction, no matter how much electricity is needed to secure the network now, in this early stages..

About pos, I think its a good idea for an altcoin. It needs to be tested in large scale, like Ethereum

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d5000
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 October 24, 2018, 11:07:34 PM

@bitmover: Well, if you think that "global warming is a scam", then there should be no point for PoS at all for you. Apart from the higher energy efficiency, PoS has practically only disadvantages with respect to PoW.

But in my opinion the energy efficiency point is an advantage. But it must be combined with other algorithms - either PoW or something like Proof of Burn or Proof of Space - to get rid at least of the most severe disadvantages, like the "censorship by insiders" problem and the diverse nothing-at-stake-related vulnerabilities.

I'm tending to consider PoS as a "cheap security booster" for other algorithms (that's what Ethereum currently is trying to achieve).

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bitmover
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 October 25, 2018, 12:00:35 AM

@bitmover: Well, if you think that "global warming is a scam", then there should be no point for PoS at all for you. Apart from the higher energy efficiency, PoS has practically only disadvantages with respect to PoW.

I don't think so.

Many small altcoins suffered a 51% attack recently, like btg and others.
Pow works well for bitcoin, but other coins could use other protocols.

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★.★.★   8 GAMES   ★   WAGERING CONTEST   ★   JACKPOTS   ★   FAUCET   ★.★.★
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r1s2g3
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I am alive but in hibernation.

 October 25, 2018, 01:12:46 AM

@OP.
Initially I used to think on same line that bitcoin POW is wasting energy but if you look from the start of the bitcoin journey I am sure you will change your mind.
Initial bitcoin were mined on laptops, more people trusted bitcoin ,more energy they put in network to secure the network.

Remember, bitcoin code does not have condition that you need to produce that much hashes to mine bitcoin. People are putting more hashes in network because they are trusting the network.

I am alive
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 October 25, 2018, 02:48:52 AM

You can always research for solution if you believe POW is a waste of electricity, processing power.

However, if you see it as a feature, a price that needs to be paid in order to guarantee the immutability of the network, to secure the network against all types of attacks (including forks), POW does not represent a problem at all.
ETFbitcoin
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Use SegWit and enjoy lower fees.

 October 25, 2018, 03:22:40 AM

PoS alone (not combined with another consensus method) don't solve problem such as :
1. When cryptocurrency is attacked and part of the network/miners/stakes went offline or can't reach other part of the cryptocurrency network. That would make split-chain happen, but PoW won't have any problem when part of the network went online/can reach other part of network again since the "true" chain determined by chain/block with biggest hashrate while in PoS there's no way to determine which chain is "true".
2. With stolen private keys which had big amount of coins, attacker could perform history manipulation on PoS-based cryptocurrency. It's effective when combined with nodes isolation.

Additionally, renewable energy (which is more environmental friendly) will be cheaper than non-renewable/fossil energy in 2020 according to some reports/research.

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Zin-Zang
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Killing Lightning Network with a 51% Ignore attack

 October 26, 2018, 03:44:59 AMLast edit: October 26, 2018, 04:18:59 AM by Zin-Zang

PoS alone (not combined with another consensus method) don't solve problem such as :
1. When cryptocurrency is attacked and part of the network/miners/stakes went offline or can't reach other part of the cryptocurrency network. That would make split-chain happen, but PoW won't have any problem when part of the network went online/can reach other part of network again since the "true" chain determined by chain/block with biggest hashrate while in PoS there's no way to determine which chain is "true".

If a Proof of Stake network was split for a brief time, the Longest Chain with the Highest Difficulty overwrites the shorter chain with the lower difficulty.
So which ever chain had the most coins staking, with the higher difficulty is the true chain.
In Proof of Stake Difficulty is based upon the Target Difficulty to maintain the rated blockspeed.

2. With stolen private keys which had big amount of coins, attacker could perform history manipulation on PoS-based cryptocurrency.
It's effective when combined with nodes isolation.

I love how you PoW guys , make up storytales about how easy it is to steal enough private keys to  perform a history manipulation.
You're totally wrong, but hey why let truth interfere with your fantasy.

Now if I said, I use a few seal teams and take over 51% of the ASICS Warehouses running bitcoin,
you cry about how impossible that is, but here is the thing , those ASICS Warehouses are easy to find.
Finding and stealing the private keys of any crypto is not as easy as you make out.
Plus if it was that easy, what keeps someone from stealing all of the bitcoin private keys and just crashing your markets by selling them all.

Next you say , well it is old keys that used to have coins in them , completely ignoring the fact there may have been a program update since that time with a coded checkpoint that completing blocks this attack or the PoS coin may not allow reorgs past a certain point.
Not to mention the fact , you really need closer to 90% of the staking coin than 51%, and you need to know how to configure the blocks for optimal staking which is different for each PoS coins because they use different specs. Don't even get me started about coin age, since you probably don't even know what that is or how it factors in. In other words there are more variables than you know and they vary per coin.

I tell you , like I tell the rest that make up how easy it is supposed to be, Go ahead and do it to prove it can be done.
As of this moment, no one has successfully pulled off a history rewrite on a Proof of Stake coin by using old invalid keys,
I like to see you do it , so put up or shut up.

However odds are you will fail like all of the rest.

My odds using a few seal teams to take over Bitcoin is probably better than yours of rewriting a Proof of Stake coin.

FYI:
By some miracle if you actually did succeed in overwriting a PoS history with old invalid keys. (Doubtful)
What happens next is the dev team releases the good blockchain with a new checkpoint invalidating all of your work instantly.
They probably also add a reorg limit to make sure it never happened again.
So all you did was waste your time.

I was Red Tagged because Lauda Blows Theymos to get back on DT
The rest are just lauda's personal butt monkeys=> Hhampuz , Vod, TMAN , achow101
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 October 26, 2018, 04:22:45 AMLast edit: October 26, 2018, 04:35:30 AM by philipma1957Merited by bones261 (2)

POS = piece of shit.

It is fundamentally an uninsured bank cd.

Or a piece of shit.

Pow only needs to use solar wind tidal sources for power and it becomes the greenest way to creat money.

I am partners with a solar array paid for by mining crypto coins.  It is pretty much fully green.

I can’t begin to tell you how set against POS I am.  But I had 1000 PPC coins staked in a Mac OS  core wallet. Sitting for  About eighty days waiting for my juice or interest.

And it was due in ten days.  Ppc decided to update the  wallet due to a fork.  And they only offered a windows update at first.  So I had the option of pulling coins from the Mac wallet losing my interest.

Or keeping coins in wallet risking losing coin to the fork.

I told the dev wtf where is Mac wallet update.  First replies were pretty much bullshit and with a two days to go to fork. I sold off the 1000 coins. Of course the idiots offer the Mac update the next day.

But if that was 1000 in a cd in a bank I get my juice.  Cause it is POS with zip for regs I got zero interest.

POS will always be this way until worldwide regs get put in.  And then you basically have a bank.

So I skip all that drama and I use a bank if I want to stake wealth.

Now as a miner I have found a way to compromise. I mine BCI which gives 10 of 13 coins as block rewards and 3 as POS.

A hybrid .

I do think hybrid pow + pos has a future.  So I am big on BCI it has a good algorithm progpow. Small market cap and the  hybrid feature

I see BTC as the super highway and alt coins as taxis and trucks needed to move transactions.
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Killing Lightning Network with a 51% Ignore attack

 October 26, 2018, 04:33:28 AMLast edit: October 27, 2018, 03:15:06 AM by Zin-Zang

It is fundamentally an uninsured bank cd.

Pow only needs to use solar wind tidal sources for power and it becomes the greenest way to creat money.

I am partners with a solar array paid for by mining crypto coins.  It is pretty much fully green.

Size of your Solar Array,  Size of your Battery Backups, Energy Wasted by your ASICS,  # of Bitcoins Produced Daily?
Are your Connected to the Grid at Night Wasting others electricity and driving up the prices for your neighbors?

Is the Array completely paid for?
What Country is it in? (Hours of Sunlight)
Did you cut down trees to get more sunlight hours?

Have you done a study to see how much sunlight you are blocking from the soil and the damage occurring to the microorganisms because of it?
Has your Solar Array displaced native animals that used to eat the vegetation?

And can you answer the above or are you making stuff up?

I can’t begin to tell you how set against POS I am.  But I had 1000 PPC coins staked in a Mac OS  core wallet. Sitting for  About eighty days waiting for my juice or interest.

And it was due in ten days.  Ppc decided to update the  wallet due to a fork.  And they only offered a windows update at first.  So I had the option of pulling coins from the Mac wallet losing my interest.

Or keeping coins in wallet risking losing coin to the fork.

You understand so little , oh where to start.
1. Wallet.dat are the same on the MAC or Windows and can be copied from one to the other.
Or you could have just exported your keys and imported them into a windows client
2. There are emulators that run windows wallets on Mac

A program update would have had zero effect on your coin age unless they were changing the coin age specs for everyone.
Your coin reward grows with time , so if it took longer before you were able to stake, the additional reward would have been included for the additional time.

Your entire hate of PoS is due to your complete misunderstanding of how a Proof of Stake coin works.
That is on you , not the PoS consensus.

I was Red Tagged because Lauda Blows Theymos to get back on DT
The rest are just lauda's personal butt monkeys=> Hhampuz , Vod, TMAN , achow101
ETFbitcoin
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Use SegWit and enjoy lower fees.

 October 26, 2018, 04:41:02 AM

If a Proof of Stake network was split for a brief time, the Longest Chain with the Highest Difficulty overwrites the shorter chain with the lower difficulty.
So which ever chain had the most coins staking, with the higher difficulty is the true chain.
In Proof of Stake Difficulty is based upon the Target Difficulty to maintain the rated blockspeed.

I didn't know about that, gonna research that later.

I love how you PoW guys , make up storytales about how easy it is to steal enough private keys to  perform a history manipulation.
You're totally wrong, but hey why let truth interfere with your fantasy.

I never say it's easy, only possible

Also, i'm not really PoW guys since i'm open to another consensus method such as PoCW or hybrid PoW-PoS (such as Decred).

Now if I said, I use a few seal teams and take over 51% of the ASICS Warehouses running bitcoin,
you cry about how impossible that is, but here is the thing , those ASICS Warehouses are easy to find.
Finding and stealing the private keys of any crypto is not as easy as you make out.
Plus if it was that easy, what keeps someone from stealing all of the bitcoin private keys and just crashing your markets by selling them all.

I also never say it's impossible for government take over ASIC warehouse, however it's also possible to track and take over server/computer which run PoS client/master-nodes. But in PoW, the cost of running ASIC is higher than run PoS client/master-nodes.

I tell you , like I tell the rest that make up how easy it is supposed to be, Go ahead and do it to prove it can be done.
As of this moment, no one has successfully pulled off a history rewrite on a Proof of Stake coin by using old invalid keys,
I like to see you do it , so put up or shut up.

I also can say that to major PoW-based cryptocurrency.

By some miracle if you actually did succeed in overwriting a PoS history with old invalid keys. (Doubtful)
What happens next is the dev team releases the good blockchain with a new checkpoint invalidating all of your work instantly.
They probably also add a reorg limit to make sure it never happened again.
So all you did was waste your time.

I also can say that to major PoW-based cryptocurrency.

 ░░░░░▄▄██████▄▄░░▄████▀▀▀▀▀▀████▄░███▀░░░░░░░░░░▀█▀████░░░▄██████▄▄░░░██░░░░░█████████░░░░██▌░░░░█████████████████░░░░█████████████████░░░░░███████████████████▄░░▀██████▀░░░████▀█▄▄░░░░░░░░░░▄███░░▀████▄▄▄▄▄▄████▀░░░░░▀▀██████▀▀ .ChipMixer.{ MIXING REINVENTED FOR YOUR PRIVACY #.ChipMixer. ░░░░░▄▄██████▄▄░░▄████▀▀▀▀▀▀████▄░███▀░░░░░░░░░░▀█▀████░░░▄██████▄▄░░░██░░░░░█████████░░░░██▌░░░░█████████████████░░░░█████████████████░░░░░███████████████████▄░░▀██████▀░░░████▀█▄▄░░░░░░░░░░▄███░░▀████▄▄▄▄▄▄████▀░░░░░▀▀██████▀▀
BayAreaCoins
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Free Bitcoins Stickers- freebitcoins.com/stickers

 October 26, 2018, 04:46:39 AM

POS ftw.

If a "bad rich guy" wants to buy up the network and attack it... at least if they are forced to by the coins to attack the network it's more noticeable than getting blasted by a nuke silo of newly developed miners.

PoW causes money to funnel in lots of places rather than the coin and the technology around it is unpredictable.

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aliashraf
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Always remember the cause!

 October 26, 2018, 05:30:00 AMLast edit: October 26, 2018, 12:56:47 PM by aliashraf

POS ftw.

If a "bad rich guy" wants to buy up the network and attack it... at least if they are forced to by the coins to attack the network it's more noticeable than getting blasted by a nuke silo of newly developed miners.

PoW causes money to funnel in lots of places rather than the coin and the technology around it is unpredictable.
And it is the point! A monetary system in which money funnels in itself is not a monetary system at all, it looks to me as a masterbation system rather.

PoS enthusiasm is very ridiculous, in PoW we consume energy to produce value but in PoS they do nothing and produce nothing, just a subjective idea of money like fiat without legitimacy and regulation.

I believe mods should ban PoS discussion in this subforum if not the whole forum. We are not interested.

 ▄██▄   ▄██▄      ▀█▀▀     ▄██▄   ▀██▀▄  ▄▄█████▄▄  ▐███▀       ███████████████      ████████▀▄▄▄▀████ ▄▄  ▐███▀▄▀██▄▀▀▀▄█████  ▄▄████▀█████▄███▀▀█████ ██▀████ ▀▀  ▐███▄███ ██ ████ █▌  ▀▀      ▀████▄██▄▄███▀▄█▀    ▄▄ █▀██████▀▄▄▄█▀█ ▄▄   ████▀   ▀▀▀█▀▀▀   ▐████    ▀▀       ▄██▄      ▀▀             ▀██▀ ..P R O J E C T........Covid-19...... ⟩ ⟩ ⟩ ▄▄▄  ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄█   █▄ █           ▀▀▀  █ ▀▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▀▄▀▀ ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ ▀▀▄█ ▄▀ ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄    ▀█ ██ █ █       █    █ ▄█ █ ▄▀▀▀▀▀▀▄▄    █ ██ █ ▀▄▄▄▄▀▀▄▄▀▀▄ █ ██ █ █   █  ██  █ █ ██ █ ▄▀▀▀▀▄▄▀▀▄▄▀ █ ██ ▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀ █ ▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀ A FINANCIAL AID ────███████  Only for Bitcointalk Users! ⟩ ⟩ ⟩ ▄████▄  ▄████▄      ████████████████      ████████████████       ██████████████        ▀██████████▀██        ▀██████▀        ████▌   ▄      ▀▀      ▄   ▐█████  ███▄          ▄███  ███▀███▄ ▀███▄      ▄███▀ ▄███▀  ▀████████      ████████▀     ▀████▀      ▀████▀     ▄   ▄▄      ▄▄   ▄     ▀█████      █████▀ You AreNot Alone
Zin-Zang
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Killing Lightning Network with a 51% Ignore attack

 October 27, 2018, 02:17:36 AMLast edit: October 27, 2018, 02:34:03 AM by Zin-Zang

POS ftw.

If a "bad rich guy" wants to buy up the network and attack it... at least if they are forced to by the coins to attack the network it's more noticeable than getting blasted by a nuke silo of newly developed miners.

PoW causes money to funnel in lots of places rather than the coin and the technology around it is unpredictable.
And it is the point! A monetary system in which money funnels in itself is not a monetary system at all, it looks to me as a masterbation system rather.

PoS enthusiasm is very ridiculous, in PoW we consume energy to produce value but in PoS they do nothing and produce nothing, just a subjective idea of money like fiat without legitimacy and regulation.

I believe mods should ban PoS discussion in this subforum if not the whole forum. We are not interested.

Of course you do, but you would be wrong.

Is Censorship of Thought something you actually want to stand up for, considering how much of your own posts have been censored.

In Proof of Stake Energy is Consumed, but it is not wasteful like bitcoin, it is efficient.
You are railing against efficiency in favor of blind useless wastefulness.

All Proof of Work coin have no choice but to become centralized, dominated by the elite.
In the end a successful PoW coin will always be dominated like Fiat by the Government Elite.

A Proof of Stake coin at least has a fighting chance at being decentralized, because to profit from it you have to sell some of it.
Yes, I know some PoS go insane with an interest rate, and all of those that do will be destroyed by their own inflation,
but not all PoS coins have insane interest rates, and those will be one that make the difference in the future.

By some miracle if you actually did succeed in overwriting a PoS history with old invalid keys. (Doubtful)
What happens next is the dev team releases the good blockchain with a new checkpoint invalidating all of your work instantly.
They probably also add a reorg limit to make sure it never happened again.
So all you did was waste your time.

I also can say that to major PoW-based cryptocurrency.

@ETFbitcoin,
You seem reasonable.

But in the above post, there is a vulerabilty in PoW that does not exist in PoS.
In PoW, if someone has 51% , whoever owns that can block all new transactions constantly.
In PoS, even if I own 70% of the staking coins, I would be unable to block all new transactions constantly.
After Staking PoS coins go dormant for a programmed set of time

So restoring a blockchain on a PoW coin, would not stop the damage a 51% attack that blocked all new transactions could cause.
They would just keep blocking all transactions on the restored chain.

Another reason PoS is a superior consensus method to PoW.

I was Red Tagged because Lauda Blows Theymos to get back on DT
The rest are just lauda's personal butt monkeys=> Hhampuz , Vod, TMAN , achow101
philipma1957
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 October 27, 2018, 03:03:25 AM

POS = piece of shit.

It is fundamentally an uninsured bank cd.

Or a piece of shit.

Pow only needs to use solar wind tidal sources for power and it becomes the greenest way to creat money.

I am partners with a solar array paid for by mining crypto coins.  It is pretty much fully green.

Size of your Solar Array,  Size of your Battery Backups, Energy Wasted by your ASICS,  # of Bitcoins Produced Daily?
Are your Connected to the Grid at Night Wasting others electricity and driving up the prices for your neighbors?

Is the Array completely paid for?
What Country is it in? (Hours of Sunlight)
Did you cut down trees to get more sunlight hours?

Have you done a study to see how much sunlight you are blocking from the soil and the damage occurring to the microorganisms because of it?
Has your Solar Array displaced native animals that used to eat the vegetation?

And can you answer the above or are you making stuff up?

I can’t begin to tell you how set against POS I am.  But I had 1000 PPC coins staked in a Mac OS  core wallet. Sitting for  About eighty days waiting for my juice or interest.

And it was due in ten days.  Ppc decided to update the  wallet due to a fork.  And they only offered a windows update at first.  So I had the option of pulling coins from the Mac wallet losing my interest.

Or keeping coins in wallet risking losing coin to the fork.

You understand so little , oh where to start.
1. Wallet.dat are the same on the MAC or Windows and can be copied from one to the other.
Or you could have just exported your keys and imported them into a windows client
2. There are emulators that run windows wallets on Mac

A program update would have had zero effect on your coin age unless they were changing the coin age specs for everyone.
Your coin reward grows with time , so if it took longer before you were able to stake, the additional reward would have been included for the additional time.

Your entire hate of PoS is due to your complete misunderstanding of how a Proof of Stake coin works.
That is on you , not the PoS consensus.

Please retract the statement in bold.

I see BTC as the super highway and alt coins as taxis and trucks needed to move transactions.
aliashraf
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Always remember the cause!

 October 27, 2018, 07:15:46 AM

Is Censorship of Thought something you actually want to stand up for, considering how much of your own posts have been censored.
I think this PoS/PoW debate is not a technical debate and does not belong to this subforum, development and technical discussion.

Quote

In Proof of Stake Energy is Consumed, but it is not wasteful like bitcoin, it is efficient.
You are railing against efficiency in favor of blind useless wastefulness.

Efficiency has nothing to do with this subject. Once you consume less resources, you are lowering the attackers costs as well, lowering the security level. Security is not a product of protocols it is an equilibrium state of costs and benefits of attacks in which costs are set to be high enough to discourage attackers.

We have debated it many times and enough is enough!

 ▄██▄   ▄██▄      ▀█▀▀     ▄██▄   ▀██▀▄  ▄▄█████▄▄  ▐███▀       ███████████████      ████████▀▄▄▄▀████ ▄▄  ▐███▀▄▀██▄▀▀▀▄█████  ▄▄████▀█████▄███▀▀█████ ██▀████ ▀▀  ▐███▄███ ██ ████ █▌  ▀▀      ▀████▄██▄▄███▀▄█▀    ▄▄ █▀██████▀▄▄▄█▀█ ▄▄   ████▀   ▀▀▀█▀▀▀   ▐████    ▀▀       ▄██▄      ▀▀             ▀██▀ ..P R O J E C T........Covid-19...... ⟩ ⟩ ⟩ ▄▄▄  ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄█   █▄ █           ▀▀▀  █ ▀▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▀▄▀▀ ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ ▀▀▄█ ▄▀ ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄    ▀█ ██ █ █       █    █ ▄█ █ ▄▀▀▀▀▀▀▄▄    █ ██ █ ▀▄▄▄▄▀▀▄▄▀▀▄ █ ██ █ █   █  ██  █ █ ██ █ ▄▀▀▀▀▄▄▀▀▄▄▀ █ ██ ▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀ █ ▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀ A FINANCIAL AID ────███████  Only for Bitcointalk Users! ⟩ ⟩ ⟩ ▄████▄  ▄████▄      ████████████████      ████████████████       ██████████████        ▀██████████▀██        ▀██████▀        ████▌   ▄      ▀▀      ▄   ▐█████  ███▄          ▄███  ███▀███▄ ▀███▄      ▄███▀ ▄███▀  ▀████████      ████████▀     ▀████▀      ▀████▀     ▄   ▄▄      ▄▄   ▄     ▀█████      █████▀ You AreNot Alone
ETFbitcoin
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Use SegWit and enjoy lower fees.

 October 27, 2018, 07:38:38 AM

But in the above post, there is a vulerabilty in PoW that does not exist in PoS.
In PoW, if someone has 51% , whoever owns that can block all new transactions constantly.
In PoS, even if I own 70% of the staking coins, I would be unable to block all new transactions constantly.
After Staking PoS coins go dormant for a programmed set of time

I didn't know about that, but what if the attacker split their coins to multiple different address/master-nodes?

So restoring a blockchain on a PoW coin, would not stop the damage a 51% attack that blocked all new transactions could cause.
They would just keep blocking all transactions on the restored chain.

What kind of damage we're talking about? Damage since transaction can't be confirmed, damage by merchants whose transaction got reversed or both?

Also, with my above scenario, the attacker should able to blocking all transactions on the restored chain.

 ░░░░░▄▄██████▄▄░░▄████▀▀▀▀▀▀████▄░███▀░░░░░░░░░░▀█▀████░░░▄██████▄▄░░░██░░░░░█████████░░░░██▌░░░░█████████████████░░░░█████████████████░░░░░███████████████████▄░░▀██████▀░░░████▀█▄▄░░░░░░░░░░▄███░░▀████▄▄▄▄▄▄████▀░░░░░▀▀██████▀▀ .ChipMixer.{ MIXING REINVENTED FOR YOUR PRIVACY #.ChipMixer. ░░░░░▄▄██████▄▄░░▄████▀▀▀▀▀▀████▄░███▀░░░░░░░░░░▀█▀████░░░▄██████▄▄░░░██░░░░░█████████░░░░██▌░░░░█████████████████░░░░█████████████████░░░░░███████████████████▄░░▀██████▀░░░████▀█▄▄░░░░░░░░░░▄███░░▀████▄▄▄▄▄▄████▀░░░░░▀▀██████▀▀
Zin-Zang
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Killing Lightning Network with a 51% Ignore attack

 October 27, 2018, 10:36:13 AM

But in the above post, there is a vulerabilty in PoW that does not exist in PoS.
In PoW, if someone has 51% , whoever owns that can block all new transactions constantly.
In PoS, even if I own 70% of the staking coins, I would be unable to block all new transactions constantly.
After Staking PoS coins go dormant for a programmed set of time

I didn't know about that, but what if the attacker split their coins to multiple different address/master-nodes?

Irrelevant, because the coins still go dormant no matter how many addresses are used.

So restoring a blockchain on a PoW coin, would not stop the damage a 51% attack that blocked all new transactions could cause.
They would just keep blocking all transactions on the restored chain.

What kind of damage we're talking about? Damage since transaction can't be confirmed, damage by merchants whose transaction got reversed or both?

It effectively , blocks all new transactions, meaning no one can spend anything on that blockchain.
That entire PoW coin usefulness as a payment system is utterly destroyed, plus the other miners ability to make new coin is also halted.
Since PoW coin miners input costs are so high, blocking them from receiving any new coins or transactions fees can be more devastating in a shorter amount of time.  Also an unspendable coin's price would crash on the markets in a few weeks.

I was Red Tagged because Lauda Blows Theymos to get back on DT
The rest are just lauda's personal butt monkeys=> Hhampuz , Vod, TMAN , achow101
Dr. Agon
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 October 27, 2018, 10:44:29 AM

@OP don't take it personally , atfirst i thought PoS is better than PoW , but the consequences are bit more harsh.

PoS is more Shit than PoW

Proof of Stake prompts centralization, with more awful outcomes than PoW

It would be ideal if you let me introduce this by saying PoS is a specialized enhancement past PoW. It enables the system to utilize altogether less assets in mining. This is great since it doesn't require the vitality necessities of a little nation to keep up the system.

So, when it connects with this present reality and financial matters it is no superior to Proof of Work.

Proof of Work depends on a numbers session of who has the most hashing force while proof of stake depends on a measurably reasonable round of whoever has the most crypto. Every ostensible unit of coin has parallel chances to be picked for its wallet to be the following mineworker. One stipulation of PoS, be that as it may, is that the wallet must be on the web. To be on the web, it requires assets (hardware, electricity, and internet connection). Assets have a true expense. Because of the reality PoS doesn't expect you to battle with hashing power, the vitality cost and hardware costs don't ascend with chances of being mined the following square (the mining lottery).

Along these lines, bigger stakes, have a less expensive expense to mine than littler stakes. To delineate this reality, envision you have a PC in your home with 1 ETH and your neighbor has an indistinguishable PC setup in his home however with 2 ETH. The vitality requires to run the two setups are actually the equivalent and the overhead hardware are the equivalent so the expense to run every one of your mining activities is the equivalent. In any case, your neighbor has 2x chances you do since he has 2x more ETH. Since each square will offer a similar mining reward paying little heed to your stake estimate, the normal esteem (odds*payout) for every unit of ETH is the equivalent, you and your neighbor both have the equivalent expected EV. In any case, in light of the fact that those machines have an expense to run, their profitabilities are unique. Your neighbor has 1/2 the expense for every unit of generation, as you.

Given the way that the bigger stake holder winds up with a bigger net revenue, as a normal financial specialist, he would keep a greater amount of the mined ETH to expand his generation capacity. So a bigger stake holder would develop his ETH stake quicker than a littler stake holder.

After a point, the expense of being a piece of the mining task would be too high with respect to the payout for little stake holders and they would reasonably drop out of the mining business, taking their wallets disconnected.

This prompts centralization of mining and the rich get more extravagant, quicker.

The option would be for littler stake holders to gather as one and move the majority of their wallets to a focal administration at that point share all mined ETH and running expenses as it would diminish the per unit cost of the activity.

This is called economies of scale. We saw this right off the bat in Bitcoin. The distinction with Proof of Stake is that it would require the majority of the littler holders to put their stakes in a similar area. This makes a helplessness not exclusively to hacking yet to outside jurisdictional power, for example, direction, tax collection, and so forth.

So one way or alternate, PoS will prompt centralization a similar way PoW does because of economies of scale. While it ends up diminishing the vitality cost to run the foundation of the system to a small amount of what PoW requires, it winds up presenting a lot of new hazard which cryptos aren't intended to deal with (i.e. outside direction and jurisdictional control).
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