13 Dead at mass shooting in California Bar

[Flying Hellfish]

Just heard the report of another mass shooting in the US.

13 Dead at bar as gunman walks in and starts shooting.

I didn't see many details but it was reportedly a popular college bar.  No details released on the nut job yet, except he is one of the dead.

More violence, more dead people, MOAR guns please!

[1714114318]

1714114318

[BADecker]

Imagine that you are walking down the street. You don't have any arms or hands. If you would trip and fall, you wouldn't have any way to get back up easily.

Now imagine all the other people walking down the street are the same way... no arms and hands.

Now imagine that one of these people knows kickboxing. And suppose he is a killer. Couldn't he use his feet to kill many of the rest of the people walking down the street before he was stopped by mob action of the rest?

Wouldn't it be wise for the rest of the people to learn some form of defense against kickboxing?


You ain't gonna get rid of guns. At least not in a freedom country. Better to be armed - learn kickboxing - than to be dead.

[TECSHARE]

Just heard the report of another mass shooting in the US.

13 Dead at bar as gunman walks in and starts shooting.

I didn't see many details but it was reportedly a popular college bar.  No details released on the nut job yet, except he is one of the dead.

More violence, more dead people, MOAR guns please!

I am sure it is just a coincidence the vast majority of the shootings in the US happen in the 2% of counties with some of the strictest gun regulations in the US.

[BADecker]

Just heard the report of another mass shooting in the US.

13 Dead at bar as gunman walks in and starts shooting.

I didn't see many details but it was reportedly a popular college bar.  No details released on the nut job yet, except he is one of the dead.

More violence, more dead people, MOAR guns please!

I am sure it is just a coincidence the vast majority of the shootings in the US happen in the 2 counties with some of the strictest gun regulations in the US.

And Chicago, with something like one-a-day gun murders, even though it has some very strict gun laws.

[virendarnagpal]

I think stress is the major reason behind such attacks.  People are much tensed due to different reasons.  These type of people are filled with negative sentiments.  They are sometimes tensed due to their family circumstances.  Most of the people running here and there, day and night to fulfill their dreams to get luxuries they are yet to get which they see others are enjoying.  And when they do not get they are frustrated.  Family disputes also play major role in putting mental stress on them.
Always running; thinking tensed mind creates frustration.  Such frustrated people can do such actions killing people.  
If we want to stop this and save our society from this; Meditation must be tried to teach each and every citizen from the very start of their life e.g. schooling.  Meditating people's mind is always peaceful and will never do such type of criminal acts.  

[TECSHARE]

And Chicago, with something like one-a-day gun murders, even though it has some very strict gun laws.

Cook county (Chicago) was one of the counties I was referring to. Also it is more than one a day now if I remember right.







https://crimeresearch.org/2017/04/number-murders-county-54-us-counties-2014-zero-murders-69-1-murder/

[Flying Hellfish]

It was reportedly a lone male shooter (no race released yet), 22 years old and known to police.  He avoided a 5150 hold last April, seems like the crisis worker didn't have enough to toss him in the looney bin back then.

Reports are he used a glock .45 cal, legally purchased weapon but used a modified mag (reports say the mod was to hold additional rounds).  Reports are the handgun was the only weapon used in the attack.

The nut job was found in an office in the bar with apparent self inflicted fatal wounds when the Police found him.

Police are searching his house now.

Motive and or connection to the scene are not known or being released ATM.

Why are women never the shooters in these cases?  I mean there are some psycho bitches that do some nutty shit but they don't generally get a gun and go on a shooting spree.

[TECSHARE]

It was reportedly a lone male shooter (no race released yet), 22 years old and known to police.  He avoided a 5150 hold last April, seems like the crisis worker didn't have enough to toss him in the looney bin back then.

Reports are he used a glock .45 cal, legally purchased weapon but used a modified mag (reports say the mod was to hold additional rounds).  Reports are the handgun was the only weapon used in the attack.

The nut job was found in an office in the bar with apparent self inflicted fatal wounds when the Police found him.

Police are searching his house now.

Motive and or connection to the scene are not known or being released ATM.

Why are women never the shooters in these cases?  I mean there are some psycho bitches that do some nutty shit but they don't generally get a gun and go on a shooting spree.

Never?



https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/ppmzkk/the-sparse-history-of-female-rampage-killers

[@JANIYAA]

Hi,

https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/kentucky-supermarket-shooting-us-gunman-opens-fire-killing-2-say-police-1937182

[Scoobers]

Removing guns will not remove the problem, they will find another way.
While a total ban on guns in never going to happen, there needs to be change.
These mass shootings are becoming more frequent and doesn't seem to be any effective measures put in place to prevent them.

[ClockworkTrader]

Removing guns will not remove the problem, they will find another way.
While a total ban on guns in never going to happen, there needs to be change.
These mass shootings are becoming more frequent and doesn't seem to be any effective measures put in place to prevent them.

Agree, even if guns are banned officially there`s always black market that doesn`t care about laws. In case a killer lacks a gun, he can easily use a knife (although with much less "efficiency"), or even make a home brew bomb - there really is no reliable way to 100% prevent such events.
Something should be done apart from banning - it seems the easiest solution, but it feels like the government wants to ban and forget about the problem instead of actually taking actions to fix it.

[Luke_Turner]

It was reportedly a lone male shooter (no race released yet), 22 years old and known to police.  He avoided a 5150 hold last April, seems like the crisis worker didn't have enough to toss him in the looney bin back then.

Reports are he used a glock .45 cal, legally purchased weapon but used a modified mag (reports say the mod was to hold additional rounds).  Reports are the handgun was the only weapon used in the attack.

The nut job was found in an office in the bar with apparent self inflicted fatal wounds when the Police found him.

Police are searching his house now.

Motive and or connection to the scene are not known or being released ATM.

Why are women never the shooters in these cases?  I mean there are some psycho bitches that do some nutty shit but they don't generally get a gun and go on a shooting spree.

The worst thing about this is that the suspect, identified as Ian David Long, had served in the US Marines and fought in Afghanistan. Makes you wonder if you're truly safe in the hands of those who have served the country or not, which is bad because there surely are a whole lot of people who have served the country and turned out alright.

[eddie13]

dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6367571/Las-Vegas-massacre-survivors-country-bar-California-gunman-opened-fire.html
REVEALED: Dozens of survivors of Las Vegas massacre were inside the California country bar when shooting broke out because they regularly meet there and treat it as 'a place of healing'
Survivors of the Las Vegas massacre were also at the California bar shooting 
Nick Champion says he and 50 to 60 survivors were at Borderline Bar and Grill when the gunman opened fire on a student night in Thousand Oaks, California   
The survivors considered the bar a 'place of healing' and would often gather

What a coincidence..

[TECSHARE]

dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6367571/Las-Vegas-massacre-survivors-country-bar-California-gunman-opened-fire.html
REVEALED: Dozens of survivors of Las Vegas massacre were inside the California country bar when shooting broke out because they regularly meet there and treat it as 'a place of healing'
Survivors of the Las Vegas massacre were also at the California bar shooting 
Nick Champion says he and 50 to 60 survivors were at Borderline Bar and Grill when the gunman opened fire on a student night in Thousand Oaks, California   
The survivors considered the bar a 'place of healing' and would often gather

What a coincidence..

Lose ends to tie up. Like I said, there is a reason they buried the results of the Vegas investigation. Lots of witnesses ending up dead very shortly after the original event as well...

[squatz1]

It was reportedly a lone male shooter (no race released yet), 22 years old and known to police.  He avoided a 5150 hold last April, seems like the crisis worker didn't have enough to toss him in the looney bin back then.

Reports are he used a glock .45 cal, legally purchased weapon but used a modified mag (reports say the mod was to hold additional rounds).  Reports are the handgun was the only weapon used in the attack.

The nut job was found in an office in the bar with apparent self inflicted fatal wounds when the Police found him.

Police are searching his house now.

Motive and or connection to the scene are not known or being released ATM.

Why are women never the shooters in these cases?  I mean there are some psycho bitches that do some nutty shit but they don't generally get a gun and go on a shooting spree.

I'm actually currently writing a little report on gun control, and one of the biggest problems faced isn't that there isn't enough legislation (at least that's not the biggest problem) it's a failure of enforcement of CURRENT regulations by local / state governments.

But that's not really their faults to be frank, they're low on funding for these sorts of services and would probably need more of an incentive through government grants in order to ensure that they're submitting records to the FBI's background check system.

Cause this crisis worker should have (in theory) submitted this sort of record to the FBI's background check system, and he should have been denied weapons on the grounds of mental health. More information is below on laws relating to this, courtesy of the Giffords Law Center.

Licensed psychotherapists (California, Illinois, New York), law enforcement officials and school administrators (Illinois) must report mentally ill individuals who demonstrate violent behavior; these people become prohibited from possessing firearms.

[suchmoon]

Removing guns will not remove the problem, they will find another way.
While a total ban on guns in never going to happen, there needs to be change.
These mass shootings are becoming more frequent and doesn't seem to be any effective measures put in place to prevent them.

It's much harder to kill with any other weapon that you could reasonably obtain (vehicle, knife, baseball bat, etc) and that's obvious from what's going on in other civilized countries that don't have a powerful gun lobby.

Even if removing guns is not feasible there are some tools that could be effective, such as required liability insurance. Wouldn't impact responsible gun owners whose premiums would be near zero, but could make it too expensive for nutjobs to own assault rifles. Might also help with other issues like straw purchases.

But even mild measures like that are unlikely for at least the next 10 years. It's unimaginable that any discussion on the topic would be possible in the current post-factual political climate.

[bones261]

It's much harder to kill with any other weapon that you could reasonably obtain (vehicle, knife, baseball bat, etc) and that's obvious from what's going on in other civilized countries that don't have a powerful gun lobby.

Even if removing guns is not feasible there are some tools that could be effective, such as required liability insurance. Wouldn't impact responsible gun owners whose premiums would be near zero, but could make it too expensive for nutjobs to own assault rifles. Might also help with other issues like straw purchases.

But even mild measures like that are unlikely for at least the next 10 years. It's unimaginable that any discussion on the topic would be possible in the current post-factual political climate.

I'm not certain making a law that will benefit the insurance industry racket is really a good idea. Sorry, but I don't want any bones thrown to those thieving scumbags.

[suchmoon]

I'm not certain making a law that will benefit the insurance industry racket is really a good idea. Sorry, but I don't want any bones thrown to those thieving scumbags.

It doesn't have to be "industry", it could be a non-profit co-op running it but I can already hear screams of "socialism" if something like that is suggested.

[bones261]

I'm not certain making a law that will benefit the insurance industry racket is really a good idea. Sorry, but I don't want any bones thrown to those thieving scumbags.

It doesn't have to be "industry", it could be a non-profit co-op running it but I can already hear screams of "socialism" if something like that is suggested.

AFAIK the NRA is "non-profit" too. Since they are the ones most devoted to the cause, are they the ones who aregoing to be running this mandated co-op? Furthermore, just because a group is non-profit doesn't make it immune from corruption. I really think a government mandated "non-profit" co-op would be ripe pickings for someone "benefactors" to line their pockets.

[criptix]

I'm not certain making a law that will benefit the insurance industry racket is really a good idea. Sorry, but I don't want any bones thrown to those thieving scumbags.

It doesn't have to be "industry", it could be a non-profit co-op running it but I can already hear screams of "socialism" if something like that is suggested.

AFAIK the NRA is "non-profit" too. Since they are the ones most devoted to the cause, are they the ones who aregoing to be running this mandated co-op? Furthermore, just because a group is non-profit doesn't make it immune from corruption. I really think a government mandated "non-profit" co-op would be ripe pickings for someone "benefactors" to line their pockets.

Isnt the NRA basically the right hand of the gun industry?

Not sure if you can call it non profit  or unbiased

[TECSHARE]

It's much harder to kill with any other weapon that you could reasonably obtain (vehicle, knife, baseball bat, etc) and that's obvious from what's going on in other civilized countries that don't have a powerful gun lobby.

Is it? It is really tho? Is gasoline hard to get? What about improvised explosives? How hard is it to steal a car or a truck to run lots of people over with? Are you saying setting fire to a populated building wouldn't kill people faster than a gun? Shit there are enough supplies at any local grocery store to build basic IEDs. This premise is bullshit. What is required to kill is INTENT, not a gun.

You know the problem though? You can't defend your home, your family, or your person with gasoline, IEDs, or trucks.

[suchmoon]

It's much harder to kill with any other weapon that you could reasonably obtain (vehicle, knife, baseball bat, etc) and that's obvious from what's going on in other civilized countries that don't have a powerful gun lobby.

Is it? It is really tho? Is gasoline hard to get? What about improvised explosives? How hard is it to steal a car or a truck to run lots of people over with? Are you saying setting fire to a populated building wouldn't kill people faster than a gun? Shit there are enough supplies at any local grocery store to build basic IEDs. This premise is bullshit. What is required to kill is INTENT, not a gun.

You know the problem though? You can't defend your home, your family, or your person with gasoline, IEDs, or trucks.

I think it's harder for an average person to build an IED or set fire to a building than it is to pull a trigger.

[squatz1]

I'm not certain making a law that will benefit the insurance industry racket is really a good idea. Sorry, but I don't want any bones thrown to those thieving scumbags.

It doesn't have to be "industry", it could be a non-profit co-op running it but I can already hear screams of "socialism" if something like that is suggested.

AFAIK the NRA is "non-profit" too. Since they are the ones most devoted to the cause, are they the ones who aregoing to be running this mandated co-op? Furthermore, just because a group is non-profit doesn't make it immune from corruption. I really think a government mandated "non-profit" co-op would be ripe pickings for someone "benefactors" to line their pockets.

Isnt the NRA basically the right hand of the gun industry?

Not sure if you can call it non profit  or unbiased

I actually did some analysis into where they are getting their funding from, and most of the money really does come from individual contributions. I'd have to dig through some of my old reports to see if I can find the source on that again, but it's at least 70 percent of their funding comes from individual contributions, events, etc.

The gun lobby isn't as big a part of the NRA as some people would like to think.

The NRA really has such a small amount of money compared to other lobbies, they're just a very powerful group that has a sway over public opinion. With that, they don't need money in order to be effective -- which is crazy to think about.

[thirsten]

Modern suburbia gives the ultimate illusion of safety.. Another 13 bite the dust, and some were even present at the Vegas shooting!

Turns out it was an ex-marine. Maybe being a pawn for politicians isn't all that great for mental health.

[BADecker]

I have seen news, lately, that shows that most of the mass shooters were on some form of medical drug that heightened their sense of insecurity.

[suchmoon]

I have seen news, lately, that shows that most of the mass shooters were on some form of medical drug that heightened their sense of insecurity.

You sure it's not chemtrails? Or something in the water?

[squatz1]

I have seen news, lately, that shows that most of the mass shooters were on some form of medical drug that heightened their sense of insecurity.

You sure it's not chemtrails? Or something in the water?

Unrelated to conspiracy theories, 26 of 27 deadliest mass shootings included the perpetrator being fatherless.

Check it out - https://www.patheos.com/blogs/markmeckler/2018/02/27-deadliest-mass-shooters-26-one-thing-common/

[TECSHARE]

It's much harder to kill with any other weapon that you could reasonably obtain (vehicle, knife, baseball bat, etc) and that's obvious from what's going on in other civilized countries that don't have a powerful gun lobby.

Is it? It is really tho? Is gasoline hard to get? What about improvised explosives? How hard is it to steal a car or a truck to run lots of people over with? Are you saying setting fire to a populated building wouldn't kill people faster than a gun? Shit there are enough supplies at any local grocery store to build basic IEDs. This premise is bullshit. What is required to kill is INTENT, not a gun.

You know the problem though? You can't defend your home, your family, or your person with gasoline, IEDs, or trucks.

I think it's harder for an average person to build an IED or set fire to a building than it is to pull a trigger.

You don't really believe that. If you do you are pretty ignorant. It doesn't even cost anything to start a fire if you do it right. No one is handing out free guns. Gasoline is cheap. There is a reason we have fire codes... because populated buildings on fire can be very lethal, and spread quickly.

Also, everyone thinks of a clock with a radio and a beeping timer when they think of IEDs. You can build an IED out of a light bulb and some gasoline. If people want to kill people they can do it no matter what you write down and call law.

[suchmoon]

You don't really believe that. If you do you are pretty ignorant. It doesn't even cost anything to start a fire if you do it right. No one is handing out free guns. Gasoline is cheap. There is a reason we have fire codes... because populated buildings on fire can be very lethal, and spread quickly.

Also, everyone thinks of a clock with a radio and a beeping timer when they think of IEDs. You can build an IED out of a light bulb and some gasoline. If people want to kill people they can do it no matter what you write down and call law.

Guns don't depend on people being in a building or the flammability of said building or many other circumstances that need to coincide for an IED or a building fire to kill people.

What was the last time we had mass murder by fire or by IED?

[TECSHARE]

You don't really believe that. If you do you are pretty ignorant. It doesn't even cost anything to start a fire if you do it right. No one is handing out free guns. Gasoline is cheap. There is a reason we have fire codes... because populated buildings on fire can be very lethal, and spread quickly.

Also, everyone thinks of a clock with a radio and a beeping timer when they think of IEDs. You can build an IED out of a light bulb and some gasoline. If people want to kill people they can do it no matter what you write down and call law.

Guns don't depend on people being in a building or the flammability of said building or many other circumstances that need to coincide for an IED or a building fire to kill people.

What was the last time we had mass murder by fire or by IED?

https://eu.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/crime-and-courts/2018/10/03/guthrie-center-county-iowa-fire-paige-exline-arson-murder-crime-nevada-homicide-kill-sexual-abuse-ia/1509016002/

If that is not a high enough count for you how about...

https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/western-wildfires/arson-growing-concern-during-california-wildfire-season-n390561



Then there is this...

http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/terrorism/incidents/20130415a.html

and this...

http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/terrorism/incidents/20171031a.html


Your argument of "ease" is flawed. The fact is if people want to murder they will find a way. In the UK they banned guns, then knife crime want crazy. They banned knives, now they stab each other with screwdrivers. Then they FUCKING BANNED SCREWDRIVERS, or rather walking around with them on the street without just cause.

Your premise is flawed.

[Karisma Black]

Imagine that you are walking down the street. You don't have any arms or hands. If you would trip and fall, you wouldn't have any way to get back up easily.

Now imagine all the other people walking down the street are the same way... no arms and hands.

Now imagine that one of these people knows kickboxing. And suppose he is a killer. Couldn't he use his feet to kill many of the rest of the people walking down the street before he was stopped by mob action of the rest?

Wouldn't it be wise for the rest of the people to learn some form of defense against kickboxing?


You ain't gonna get rid of guns. At least not in a freedom country. Better to be armed - learn kickboxing - than to be dead.

You do realize that the US are the only country in the world where this kind of things happen?
In other "rich" countries, we don't hear about mass shootings. Ever wondered why?
But yeaaah, the US is the land of freedom!! Where any nutjob can carry a gun.

[bones261]

You do realize that the US are the only country in the world where this kind of things happen?
In other "rich" countries, we don't hear about mass shootings. Ever wondered why?
But yeah, the US is the land of freedom...and nutjobs.

   That is not an entirely accurate statement. Mass shootings do happen in other "rich" countries, but with much less frequency. I mean according to this Wikipedia article, 3 have happened this year in Canada. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres_in_Canada If you are not "hearing" about it, maybe you are not paying enough attention.

[BADecker]

Imagine that you are walking down the street. You don't have any arms or hands. If you would trip and fall, you wouldn't have any way to get back up easily.

Now imagine all the other people walking down the street are the same way... no arms and hands.

Now imagine that one of these people knows kickboxing. And suppose he is a killer. Couldn't he use his feet to kill many of the rest of the people walking down the street before he was stopped by mob action of the rest?

Wouldn't it be wise for the rest of the people to learn some form of defense against kickboxing?


You ain't gonna get rid of guns. At least not in a freedom country. Better to be armed - learn kickboxing - than to be dead.

You do realize that the US are the only country in the world where this kind of things happen?
In other "rich" countries, we don't hear about mass shootings. Ever wondered why?
But yeaaah, the US is the land of freedom!! Where any nutjob can carry a gun.

You do realize, don't you, that guns aren't the reason that these things happen.

People who want to control the world spend a lot of money promoting things like this just to make it seem that guns are bad.

If all the people in the U.S. picked up their guns, these things would rarely happen in the U.S.

People in peaceful non-gun parts of the world are already slaves, or are not being enslaved more because of gun freedom in the U.S.

If nutjobs used guns inappropriately in a land full of armed people, they'd be dead. Just ask ISIS what happens when people use guns against them.

The problem isn't guns. The problem is lack of more guns, and lack of people who want to stand up for their lives, the lives of their families, and their property, and their rights.

[Karisma Black]

Imagine that you are walking down the street. You don't have any arms or hands. If you would trip and fall, you wouldn't have any way to get back up easily.

Now imagine all the other people walking down the street are the same way... no arms and hands.

Now imagine that one of these people knows kickboxing. And suppose he is a killer. Couldn't he use his feet to kill many of the rest of the people walking down the street before he was stopped by mob action of the rest?

Wouldn't it be wise for the rest of the people to learn some form of defense against kickboxing?


You ain't gonna get rid of guns. At least not in a freedom country. Better to be armed - learn kickboxing - than to be dead.

You do realize that the US are the only country in the world where this kind of things happen?
In other "rich" countries, we don't hear about mass shootings. Ever wondered why?
But yeaaah, the US is the land of freedom!! Where any nutjob can carry a gun.

You do realize, don't you, that guns aren't the reason that these things happen.

People who want to control the world spend a lot of money promoting things like this just to make it seem that guns are bad.

If all the people in the U.S. picked up their guns, these things would rarely happen in the U.S.

People in peaceful non-gun parts of the world are already slaves, or are not being enslaved more because of gun freedom in the U.S.

If nutjobs used guns inappropriately in a land full of armed people, they'd be dead. Just ask ISIS what happens when people use guns against them.

The problem isn't guns. The problem is lack of more guns, and lack of people who want to stand up for their lives, the lives of their families, and their property, and their rights.

Keep believing that.
I hope you won't have to change your mind the day someone you love is killed by a random dude who managed to buy a gun as easily as you can buy a candy bar.
Like I said,you don't hear about mass shootings in Italy, France, the U.K...
But you're right ,let's all have guns so we can shoot anyone. You gave me the finger while driving? You're dead !You stared at my wife ? You're dead! You cut the line at the movies? You're...well you get the point.
Crazy country, crazy president...the rest of the world pitties you, you know.

[suchmoon]

Your argument of "ease" is flawed. The fact is if people want to murder they will find a way. In the UK they banned guns, then knife crime want crazy. They banned knives, now they stab each other with screwdrivers. Then they FUCKING BANNED SCREWDRIVERS, or rather walking around with them on the street without just cause.

Your premise is flawed.

Homicide rate in the UK (guns, knives, screwdrivers, whatever) is ~80% lower than in the US so I wouldn't describe it as "crazy".

If it was easier to kill it via other means why would all these mass shooters choose the harder way via guns? You're not making any sense. You bring up an arson example from last year and California wildfires... there is a mass shooting nearly every day.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2018/11/08/thousand-oaks-california-bar-shooting-307th-mass-shooting/1928574002/

[BADecker]

Imagine that you are walking down the street. You don't have any arms or hands. If you would trip and fall, you wouldn't have any way to get back up easily.

Now imagine all the other people walking down the street are the same way... no arms and hands.

Now imagine that one of these people knows kickboxing. And suppose he is a killer. Couldn't he use his feet to kill many of the rest of the people walking down the street before he was stopped by mob action of the rest?

Wouldn't it be wise for the rest of the people to learn some form of defense against kickboxing?


You ain't gonna get rid of guns. At least not in a freedom country. Better to be armed - learn kickboxing - than to be dead.

You do realize that the US are the only country in the world where this kind of things happen?
In other "rich" countries, we don't hear about mass shootings. Ever wondered why?
But yeaaah, the US is the land of freedom!! Where any nutjob can carry a gun.

You do realize, don't you, that guns aren't the reason that these things happen.

People who want to control the world spend a lot of money promoting things like this just to make it seem that guns are bad.

If all the people in the U.S. picked up their guns, these things would rarely happen in the U.S.

People in peaceful non-gun parts of the world are already slaves, or are not being enslaved more because of gun freedom in the U.S.

If nutjobs used guns inappropriately in a land full of armed people, they'd be dead. Just ask ISIS what happens when people use guns against them.

The problem isn't guns. The problem is lack of more guns, and lack of people who want to stand up for their lives, the lives of their families, and their property, and their rights.

Keep believing that.
I hope you won't have to change your mind the day someone you love is killed by a random dude who managed to buy a gun as easily as you can buy a candy bar.
Like I said,you don't hear about mass shootings in Italy, France, the U.K...
But you're right ,let's all have guns so we can shoot anyone. You gave me the finger while driving? You're dead !You stared at my wife ? You're dead! You cut the line at the movies? You're...well you get the point.
Crazy country, crazy president...the rest of the world pitties you, you know.

Keep believing that.
I hope you won't have to change your mind the day someone you love is killed by a random dude who managed to build a gun as easily as you can buy a candy bar.

Legal Homemade Slamfire Pipe Shotgun (Cost 20$) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LUQ8ESVu5s

LET'S MAKE A SHOTGUN - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcqBXGeli60

diy pipe shot gun - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkLD3SSfJQ8

Homemade pipe shotgun Part 2 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_5vSHWZ2mg

And many, many more videos. The technology and ease will improve with more and more people doing it.

[TECSHARE]

Your argument of "ease" is flawed. The fact is if people want to murder they will find a way. In the UK they banned guns, then knife crime want crazy. They banned knives, now they stab each other with screwdrivers. Then they FUCKING BANNED SCREWDRIVERS, or rather walking around with them on the street without just cause.

Your premise is flawed.

Homicide rate in the UK (guns, knives, screwdrivers, whatever) is ~80% lower than in the US so I wouldn't describe it as "crazy".

If it was easier to kill it via other means why would all these mass shooters choose the harder way via guns? You're not making any sense. You bring up an arson example from last year and California wildfires... there is a mass shooting nearly every day.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2018/11/08/thousand-oaks-california-bar-shooting-307th-mass-shooting/1928574002/

See you are just using circular logic. I say it is not easier. I give examples.

You say "If it was easier to kill it via other means why would all these mass shooters choose the harder way via guns?"

This is circular logic, you are just referencing your own unbased conclusion as the source for your logic.

My point is even if you waved a magic wand to make all the guns go poof, those shootings would magically transform into arsons, stabbings, bombings, etc. Murders don't happen because of inanimate objects. They happen because of intent. Furthermore those inanimate objects help protect people from all of this, so it is not as simple as "oh lets just get rid of that and the problems will be gone!"

[criptix]

Your argument of "ease" is flawed. The fact is if people want to murder they will find a way. In the UK they banned guns, then knife crime want crazy. They banned knives, now they stab each other with screwdrivers. Then they FUCKING BANNED SCREWDRIVERS, or rather walking around with them on the street without just cause.

Your premise is flawed.

Homicide rate in the UK (guns, knives, screwdrivers, whatever) is ~80% lower than in the US so I wouldn't describe it as "crazy".

If it was easier to kill it via other means why would all these mass shooters choose the harder way via guns? You're not making any sense. You bring up an arson example from last year and California wildfires... there is a mass shooting nearly every day.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2018/11/08/thousand-oaks-california-bar-shooting-307th-mass-shooting/1928574002/

See you are just using circular logic. I say it is not easier. I give examples.

You say "If it was easier to kill it via other means why would all these mass shooters choose the harder way via guns?"

This is circular logic, you are just referencing your own unbased conclusion as the source for your logic.

My point is even if you waved a magic wand to make all the guns go poof, those shootings would magically transform into arsons, stabbings, bombings, etc. Murders don't happen because of inanimate objects. They happen because of intent. Furthermore those inanimate objects help protect people from all of this, so it is not as simple as "oh lets just get rid of that and the problems will be gone!"

Now im intrigued to know how much deadly cases per 100k we have when we compare all western nations/industry nations.

Seems to me violence is quite the big problem in the usa.

Edit

https://www.statista.com/statistics/195331/number-of-murders-in-the-us-by-state/

Highest homicide rate with close to 75% attributed to guns.

[Karisma Black]

Keep believing that.
I hope you won't have to change your mind the day someone you love is killed by a random dude who managed to build a gun as easily as you can buy a candy bar.

Legal Homemade Slamfire Pipe Shotgun (Cost 20$) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LUQ8ESVu5s

LET'S MAKE A SHOTGUN - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcqBXGeli60

diy pipe shot gun - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkLD3SSfJQ8

Homemade pipe shotgun Part 2 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_5vSHWZ2mg

And many, many more videos. The technology and ease will improve with more and more people doing it.

What ?Not sure I get your point here.
You're basically saying what I'm saying lol, that more guns equals more deaths.You Americans have been watching too many westerns and Rambo movies, now you believe that a gun makes you a real man.
You really have to be a retard or a psycho to think that having everybody own a gun can make a country safer.
But hey keep killing yourselves... and crying afterwards for all that craziness you created.

[BADecker]

Keep believing that.
I hope you won't have to change your mind the day someone you love is killed by a random dude who managed to build a gun as easily as you can buy a candy bar.

Legal Homemade Slamfire Pipe Shotgun (Cost 20$) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LUQ8ESVu5s

LET'S MAKE A SHOTGUN - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcqBXGeli60

diy pipe shot gun - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkLD3SSfJQ8

Homemade pipe shotgun Part 2 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_5vSHWZ2mg

And many, many more videos. The technology and ease will improve with more and more people doing it.

What ?Not sure I get your point here.
You're basically saying what I'm saying lol, that more guns equals more deaths.You Americans have been watching too many westerns and Rambo movies, now you believe that a gun makes you a real man.
You really have to be a retard or a psycho to think that having everybody own a gun can make a country safer.
But hey keep killing yourselves... and crying afterwards for all that craziness you created.

No.

What I am saying is that people are always going to make guns to protect themselves.

And crooks are always going to make guns to shoot people who don't have them.

The point is to arm the people so they can protect themselves. After all, the police and military are simply people. Essentially, make everybody into police and military... like the 2nd Amendment says, the militia.

Crooks are a bit nutty just to be crooks. When they see people all around them armed against them, what will they do? Certainly they won't be as brave as they would if they were the only ones who had guns.

Attempted legalized elimination of guns is the wrong way.

[Swami74]

I am Australian and believe that looking at how we have handled gun control is worth a look. Removing firearms that are automatic and semi automatic has worked well for us.
Hope that you find a way to resolve the issue and less families have to suffer a loss.

[Flying Hellfish]

You do realize that the US are the only country in the world where this kind of things happen?
In other "rich" countries, we don't hear about mass shootings. Ever wondered why?
But yeah, the US is the land of freedom...and nutjobs.

   That is not an entirely accurate statement. Mass shootings do happen in other "rich" countries, but with much less frequency. I mean according to this Wikipedia article, 3 have happened this year in Canada. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres_in_Canada If you are not "hearing" about it, maybe you are not paying enough attention.

Only 2 actually, 1 of the ones in your link used a van, no firearms were used, the officer that responded was a real hero as he was able to apprehend the sick fuck without firing any shots.  

Per capita mass shootings in the USA are way higher.  In order to compare the actual numbers you have to define "mass shooting" but firearm homicides are 8-10X higher per capita in the US than Canada and it's higher than that compared to a lot of other "westernized" countries.

There are hundreds of millions of people around the world that have looked at the stats and concluded very quickly that military weapons in the hands of civilians leads to only one thing, less safety for the entire country...

[bones261]

You do realize that the US are the only country in the world where this kind of things happen?
In other "rich" countries, we don't hear about mass shootings. Ever wondered why?
But yeah, the US is the land of freedom...and nutjobs.

   That is not an entirely accurate statement. Mass shootings do happen in other "rich" countries, but with much less frequency. I mean according to this Wikipedia article, 3 have happened this year in Canada. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres_in_Canada If you are not "hearing" about it, maybe you are not paying enough attention.

Only 2 actually, 1 of the ones in your link used a van, no firearms were used, the officer that responded was a real hero as he was able to apprehend the sick fuck without firing any shots.  

Per capita mass shootings in the USA are way higher.  In order to compare the actual numbers you have to define "mass shooting" but firearm homicides are 8-10X higher per capita in the US than Canada and it's higher than that compared to a lot of other "westernized" countries.

There are hundreds of millions of people around the world that have look at the stats and concluded very quickly that military weapons in the hands of civilians leads to only one thing, less safety for the entire country...

I'm not denying that the USA is way higher. I'm just keeping it real by pointing out that mass shootings are not unheard of in other rich countries. I absolute despise it when people on the left or the right use blatant untruths and hyperbole to bolster their point. Quite frankly, CNN with all their stupid panels gets unwatchable much of the time. Not as unpalatable to me as Fox news, (I think my record for watching them is 5 minutes, if that long, except the Sunday morning show with Chris Wallace.) With CNN and MSNBC, I find myself rolling my eyes a good amount of the time.

[OgNasty]

Amazing how the coverage of this tragedy seemed to disappear as soon as we found out the shooter was a liberal gun control nut.

This sort of thing doesn’t happen where I live. Everyone is allowed to carry guns on them here.

[bones261]

Amazing how the coverage of this tragedy seemed to disappear as soon as we found out the shooter was a liberal gun control nut.

This sort of thing doesn’t happen where I live. Everyone is allowed to carry guns on them here.

I'm glad that where you live there are great sharp shooters who can hit their intended target in a dark and crowded bar. 

[OgNasty]

Amazing how the coverage of this tragedy seemed to disappear as soon as we found out the shooter was a liberal gun control nut.

This sort of thing doesn’t happen where I live. Everyone is allowed to carry guns on them here.

I'm glad that where you live there are great sharp shooters who can hit their intended target in a dark and crowded bar. 

Huh? The people in the bar would shoot the target up close. Hence why this doesn’t happen where I live. Any shooter that walks into a bar where I’m having a drink with friends is going to have a bad time.

[Flying Hellfish]

Amazing how the coverage of this tragedy seemed to disappear as soon as we found out the shooter was a liberal gun control nut.

Disappear, not sure what that means it's still all over the news...  It has been covered as much as the synagogue shooter!  Other things like wild fires, elections and Pussygate are also happening so the news reports that as well, do you expect them to spend 24 hours a day on a single news issue.

This sort of thing doesn’t happen where I live. Everyone is allowed to carry guns on them here.

This sort of thing doesn't happen where I live. No one is allowed to carry guns on them here let alone own military hardware.  I would be willing to bet there is a lot more firearm homicides in your area than mine  

[bones261]

Amazing how the coverage of this tragedy seemed to disappear as soon as we found out the shooter was a liberal gun control nut.

This sort of thing doesn’t happen where I live. Everyone is allowed to carry guns on them here.

I'm glad that where you live there are great sharp shooters who can hit their intended target in a dark and crowded bar. 

Huh? The people in the bar would shoot the target up close. Hence why this doesn’t happen where I live. Any shooter that walks into a bar where I’m having a drink with friends is going to have a bad time.

Wow, good guys with guns who are also drinking. What could possibly go wrong?  I guess drunk vigilante justice is better than drunk driving. 

[OgNasty]

This sort of thing doesn’t happen where I live. Everyone is allowed to carry guns on them here.

This sort of thing doesn't happen where I live. No one is allowed to carry guns on them here let alone own military hardware.  I would be willing to bet there is a lot more firearm homicides in your area than mine  

Cool story. Then how about you stay where you live and I won’t care about your local laws, and you give me the same courtesy?

[suchmoon]

See you are just using circular logic. I say it is not easier. I give examples.

You say "If it was easier to kill it via other means why would all these mass shooters choose the harder way via guns?"

This is circular logic, you are just referencing your own unbased conclusion as the source for your logic.

My point is even if you waved a magic wand to make all the guns go poof, those shootings would magically transform into arsons, stabbings, bombings, etc. Murders don't happen because of inanimate objects. They happen because of intent. Furthermore those inanimate objects help protect people from all of this, so it is not as simple as "oh lets just get rid of that and the problems will be gone!"

Ok, so which is it - are you saying it's easier to kill with a gun than e.g. via arson or not? Getting really tangled up in your own arguments there.

There is no magic transformation like you're implying. Harder to kill means fewer deaths. Most of those firearms deaths are not hardened assassins killing at any cost. Domestic disputes, drunken fights, petty crime, accidents, suicide attempts, etc wouldn't be nearly as deadly without guns and most sane countries have figured that out a long time ago.

[TECSHARE]

See you are just using circular logic. I say it is not easier. I give examples.

You say "If it was easier to kill it via other means why would all these mass shooters choose the harder way via guns?"

This is circular logic, you are just referencing your own unbased conclusion as the source for your logic.

My point is even if you waved a magic wand to make all the guns go poof, those shootings would magically transform into arsons, stabbings, bombings, etc. Murders don't happen because of inanimate objects. They happen because of intent. Furthermore those inanimate objects help protect people from all of this, so it is not as simple as "oh lets just get rid of that and the problems will be gone!"

Ok, so which is it - are you saying it's easier to kill with a gun than e.g. via arson or not? Getting really tangled up in your own arguments there.

There is no magic transformation like you're implying. Harder to kill means fewer deaths. Most of those firearms deaths are not hardened assassins killing at any cost. Domestic disputes, drunken fights, petty crime, accidents, suicide attempts, etc wouldn't be nearly as deadly without guns and most sane countries have figured that out a long time ago.

Am I? Seems to me you are the one tangled in your own argument... like I just said.... but hey maybe if you accuse me of the same thing you are guilty of no one will notice you have no argument.

[OgNasty]

Chicago has the strictest gun laws in the nation and the highest gun violence. This is no coincidence.

This is a topic about gun violence and this is an on topic comment.

I do wish the subject was changed to say Liberal Anti-Gun Nut murders 13 people in California Bar.

[bones261]

Chicago has the strictest gun laws in the nation and the highest gun violence. This is no coincidence.

       All this example demonstrates is that attempting to impose gun regulation on the municipal level is rather ineffective. All one needs to do to circumvent the law is purchase your gun at a gun shop outside of the city limits. The city of Chicago also shares a border with the State of Indiana... Gun regulation on the national level would be harder to circumvent. AFAIK, both Mexico and Canada have even stricter gun regulations than the USA ever will. Therefore, circumventing a federal regulation would require efforts greater than just crossing a border.
      However, I do not see any serious federal regulation coming down the pipe until 2021 at the soonest. And since the Supreme Court justices have lifetime appointments, I suspect any meaningful legislation would be ruled unconstitutional.
     
       

[TECSHARE]

Chicago has the strictest gun laws in the nation and the highest gun violence. This is no coincidence.

       All this example demonstrates is that attempting to impose gun regulation on the municipal level is rather ineffective. All one needs to do to circumvent the law is purchase your gun at a gun shop outside of the city limits. The city of Chicago also shares a border with the State of Indiana... Gun regulation on the national level would be harder to circumvent. AFAIK, both Mexico and Canada have even stricter gun regulations than the USA ever will. Therefore, circumventing a federal regulation would require efforts greater than just crossing a border.
      However, I do not see any serious federal regulation coming down the pipe until 2021 at the soonest. And since the Supreme Court justices have lifetime appointments, I suspect any meaningful legislation would be ruled unconstitutional.
     
       

Yep, everyone knows you can't get guns in Mexico

[philipma1957]

You don't really believe that. If you do you are pretty ignorant. It doesn't even cost anything to start a fire if you do it right. No one is handing out free guns. Gasoline is cheap. There is a reason we have fire codes... because populated buildings on fire can be very lethal, and spread quickly.

Also, everyone thinks of a clock with a radio and a beeping timer when they think of IEDs. You can build an IED out of a light bulb and some gasoline. If people want to kill people they can do it no matter what you write down and call law.

Guns don't depend on people being in a building or the flammability of said building or many other circumstances that need to coincide for an IED or a building fire to kill people.

What was the last time we had mass murder by fire or by IED?

Many wild fires in California are set by people.
And many result in multiple deaths.
But I would say a fire starter is a different type of killer then a mass shooter.
I for one would prefer protecting my self from a fire then a shooter.
So if truly strict gun controls nationwide lowered shootings a lot.
But fires went up somewhat it could be a better trade off.

Tough call.

[Hannu]

Just heard the report of another mass shooting in the US.

13 Dead at bar as gunman walks in and starts shooting.

I didn't see many details but it was reportedly a popular college bar.  No details released on the nut job yet, except he is one of the dead.

More violence, more dead people, MOAR guns please!

Yeah, I say some guy who planned a mass murder "Get help?? There's are a fountain house in your area, get some food. "Or kill yourself? Do not take happy people grave with you, they wanna live!

[cryptothief]

I don't think any reasonable person could argue that stricter gun laws 'can' make a difference, whether they would or not is another matter. I would like to think that a mentally ill person would, at the very least, find it difficult to obtain firearms and/or ammunition. It is a difficult situation to be in, as there will always be a black market where anyone (with money) can purchase whatever they want, but surely it makes sense to make it as hard as possible for them to do so. At least it would ensure that anyone who wanted a gun has to jump through a few hoops to get one. Anyway, it's a tough argument and I don't see it finishing any time soon - plus I agree with points on both sides, getting scratches on my balls from sitting on the fence   

[PMmesexycoins]

Just because there's restrictions doesn't mean they are being properly executed, and without that they might as well not be there.