13 Dead at mass shooting in California Bar

[Swami74]

I am Australian and believe that looking at how we have handled gun control is worth a look. Removing firearms that are automatic and semi automatic has worked well for us.
Hope that you find a way to resolve the issue and less families have to suffer a loss.

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[Flying Hellfish]

You do realize that the US are the only country in the world where this kind of things happen?
In other "rich" countries, we don't hear about mass shootings. Ever wondered why?
But yeah, the US is the land of freedom...and nutjobs.

   That is not an entirely accurate statement. Mass shootings do happen in other "rich" countries, but with much less frequency. I mean according to this Wikipedia article, 3 have happened this year in Canada. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres_in_Canada If you are not "hearing" about it, maybe you are not paying enough attention.

Only 2 actually, 1 of the ones in your link used a van, no firearms were used, the officer that responded was a real hero as he was able to apprehend the sick fuck without firing any shots.  

Per capita mass shootings in the USA are way higher.  In order to compare the actual numbers you have to define "mass shooting" but firearm homicides are 8-10X higher per capita in the US than Canada and it's higher than that compared to a lot of other "westernized" countries.

There are hundreds of millions of people around the world that have looked at the stats and concluded very quickly that military weapons in the hands of civilians leads to only one thing, less safety for the entire country...

[bones261]

You do realize that the US are the only country in the world where this kind of things happen?
In other "rich" countries, we don't hear about mass shootings. Ever wondered why?
But yeah, the US is the land of freedom...and nutjobs.

   That is not an entirely accurate statement. Mass shootings do happen in other "rich" countries, but with much less frequency. I mean according to this Wikipedia article, 3 have happened this year in Canada. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres_in_Canada If you are not "hearing" about it, maybe you are not paying enough attention.

Only 2 actually, 1 of the ones in your link used a van, no firearms were used, the officer that responded was a real hero as he was able to apprehend the sick fuck without firing any shots.  

Per capita mass shootings in the USA are way higher.  In order to compare the actual numbers you have to define "mass shooting" but firearm homicides are 8-10X higher per capita in the US than Canada and it's higher than that compared to a lot of other "westernized" countries.

There are hundreds of millions of people around the world that have look at the stats and concluded very quickly that military weapons in the hands of civilians leads to only one thing, less safety for the entire country...

I'm not denying that the USA is way higher. I'm just keeping it real by pointing out that mass shootings are not unheard of in other rich countries. I absolute despise it when people on the left or the right use blatant untruths and hyperbole to bolster their point. Quite frankly, CNN with all their stupid panels gets unwatchable much of the time. Not as unpalatable to me as Fox news, (I think my record for watching them is 5 minutes, if that long, except the Sunday morning show with Chris Wallace.) With CNN and MSNBC, I find myself rolling my eyes a good amount of the time.

[OgNasty]

Amazing how the coverage of this tragedy seemed to disappear as soon as we found out the shooter was a liberal gun control nut.

This sort of thing doesn’t happen where I live. Everyone is allowed to carry guns on them here.

[bones261]

Amazing how the coverage of this tragedy seemed to disappear as soon as we found out the shooter was a liberal gun control nut.

This sort of thing doesn’t happen where I live. Everyone is allowed to carry guns on them here.

I'm glad that where you live there are great sharp shooters who can hit their intended target in a dark and crowded bar. 

[OgNasty]

Amazing how the coverage of this tragedy seemed to disappear as soon as we found out the shooter was a liberal gun control nut.

This sort of thing doesn’t happen where I live. Everyone is allowed to carry guns on them here.

I'm glad that where you live there are great sharp shooters who can hit their intended target in a dark and crowded bar. 

Huh? The people in the bar would shoot the target up close. Hence why this doesn’t happen where I live. Any shooter that walks into a bar where I’m having a drink with friends is going to have a bad time.

[Flying Hellfish]

Amazing how the coverage of this tragedy seemed to disappear as soon as we found out the shooter was a liberal gun control nut.

Disappear, not sure what that means it's still all over the news...  It has been covered as much as the synagogue shooter!  Other things like wild fires, elections and Pussygate are also happening so the news reports that as well, do you expect them to spend 24 hours a day on a single news issue.

This sort of thing doesn’t happen where I live. Everyone is allowed to carry guns on them here.

This sort of thing doesn't happen where I live. No one is allowed to carry guns on them here let alone own military hardware.  I would be willing to bet there is a lot more firearm homicides in your area than mine  

[bones261]

Amazing how the coverage of this tragedy seemed to disappear as soon as we found out the shooter was a liberal gun control nut.

This sort of thing doesn’t happen where I live. Everyone is allowed to carry guns on them here.

I'm glad that where you live there are great sharp shooters who can hit their intended target in a dark and crowded bar. 

Huh? The people in the bar would shoot the target up close. Hence why this doesn’t happen where I live. Any shooter that walks into a bar where I’m having a drink with friends is going to have a bad time.

Wow, good guys with guns who are also drinking. What could possibly go wrong?  I guess drunk vigilante justice is better than drunk driving. 

[OgNasty]

This sort of thing doesn’t happen where I live. Everyone is allowed to carry guns on them here.

This sort of thing doesn't happen where I live. No one is allowed to carry guns on them here let alone own military hardware.  I would be willing to bet there is a lot more firearm homicides in your area than mine  

Cool story. Then how about you stay where you live and I won’t care about your local laws, and you give me the same courtesy?

[suchmoon]

See you are just using circular logic. I say it is not easier. I give examples.

You say "If it was easier to kill it via other means why would all these mass shooters choose the harder way via guns?"

This is circular logic, you are just referencing your own unbased conclusion as the source for your logic.

My point is even if you waved a magic wand to make all the guns go poof, those shootings would magically transform into arsons, stabbings, bombings, etc. Murders don't happen because of inanimate objects. They happen because of intent. Furthermore those inanimate objects help protect people from all of this, so it is not as simple as "oh lets just get rid of that and the problems will be gone!"

Ok, so which is it - are you saying it's easier to kill with a gun than e.g. via arson or not? Getting really tangled up in your own arguments there.

There is no magic transformation like you're implying. Harder to kill means fewer deaths. Most of those firearms deaths are not hardened assassins killing at any cost. Domestic disputes, drunken fights, petty crime, accidents, suicide attempts, etc wouldn't be nearly as deadly without guns and most sane countries have figured that out a long time ago.

[TECSHARE]

See you are just using circular logic. I say it is not easier. I give examples.

You say "If it was easier to kill it via other means why would all these mass shooters choose the harder way via guns?"

This is circular logic, you are just referencing your own unbased conclusion as the source for your logic.

My point is even if you waved a magic wand to make all the guns go poof, those shootings would magically transform into arsons, stabbings, bombings, etc. Murders don't happen because of inanimate objects. They happen because of intent. Furthermore those inanimate objects help protect people from all of this, so it is not as simple as "oh lets just get rid of that and the problems will be gone!"

Ok, so which is it - are you saying it's easier to kill with a gun than e.g. via arson or not? Getting really tangled up in your own arguments there.

There is no magic transformation like you're implying. Harder to kill means fewer deaths. Most of those firearms deaths are not hardened assassins killing at any cost. Domestic disputes, drunken fights, petty crime, accidents, suicide attempts, etc wouldn't be nearly as deadly without guns and most sane countries have figured that out a long time ago.

Am I? Seems to me you are the one tangled in your own argument... like I just said.... but hey maybe if you accuse me of the same thing you are guilty of no one will notice you have no argument.

[OgNasty]

Chicago has the strictest gun laws in the nation and the highest gun violence. This is no coincidence.

This is a topic about gun violence and this is an on topic comment.

I do wish the subject was changed to say Liberal Anti-Gun Nut murders 13 people in California Bar.

[bones261]

Chicago has the strictest gun laws in the nation and the highest gun violence. This is no coincidence.

       All this example demonstrates is that attempting to impose gun regulation on the municipal level is rather ineffective. All one needs to do to circumvent the law is purchase your gun at a gun shop outside of the city limits. The city of Chicago also shares a border with the State of Indiana... Gun regulation on the national level would be harder to circumvent. AFAIK, both Mexico and Canada have even stricter gun regulations than the USA ever will. Therefore, circumventing a federal regulation would require efforts greater than just crossing a border.
      However, I do not see any serious federal regulation coming down the pipe until 2021 at the soonest. And since the Supreme Court justices have lifetime appointments, I suspect any meaningful legislation would be ruled unconstitutional.
     
       

[TECSHARE]

Chicago has the strictest gun laws in the nation and the highest gun violence. This is no coincidence.

       All this example demonstrates is that attempting to impose gun regulation on the municipal level is rather ineffective. All one needs to do to circumvent the law is purchase your gun at a gun shop outside of the city limits. The city of Chicago also shares a border with the State of Indiana... Gun regulation on the national level would be harder to circumvent. AFAIK, both Mexico and Canada have even stricter gun regulations than the USA ever will. Therefore, circumventing a federal regulation would require efforts greater than just crossing a border.
      However, I do not see any serious federal regulation coming down the pipe until 2021 at the soonest. And since the Supreme Court justices have lifetime appointments, I suspect any meaningful legislation would be ruled unconstitutional.
     
       

Yep, everyone knows you can't get guns in Mexico

[philipma1957]

You don't really believe that. If you do you are pretty ignorant. It doesn't even cost anything to start a fire if you do it right. No one is handing out free guns. Gasoline is cheap. There is a reason we have fire codes... because populated buildings on fire can be very lethal, and spread quickly.

Also, everyone thinks of a clock with a radio and a beeping timer when they think of IEDs. You can build an IED out of a light bulb and some gasoline. If people want to kill people they can do it no matter what you write down and call law.

Guns don't depend on people being in a building or the flammability of said building or many other circumstances that need to coincide for an IED or a building fire to kill people.

What was the last time we had mass murder by fire or by IED?

Many wild fires in California are set by people.
And many result in multiple deaths.
But I would say a fire starter is a different type of killer then a mass shooter.
I for one would prefer protecting my self from a fire then a shooter.
So if truly strict gun controls nationwide lowered shootings a lot.
But fires went up somewhat it could be a better trade off.

Tough call.

[Hannu]

Just heard the report of another mass shooting in the US.

13 Dead at bar as gunman walks in and starts shooting.

I didn't see many details but it was reportedly a popular college bar.  No details released on the nut job yet, except he is one of the dead.

More violence, more dead people, MOAR guns please!

Yeah, I say some guy who planned a mass murder "Get help?? There's are a fountain house in your area, get some food. "Or kill yourself? Do not take happy people grave with you, they wanna live!

[cryptothief]

I don't think any reasonable person could argue that stricter gun laws 'can' make a difference, whether they would or not is another matter. I would like to think that a mentally ill person would, at the very least, find it difficult to obtain firearms and/or ammunition. It is a difficult situation to be in, as there will always be a black market where anyone (with money) can purchase whatever they want, but surely it makes sense to make it as hard as possible for them to do so. At least it would ensure that anyone who wanted a gun has to jump through a few hoops to get one. Anyway, it's a tough argument and I don't see it finishing any time soon - plus I agree with points on both sides, getting scratches on my balls from sitting on the fence   

[PMmesexycoins]

Just because there's restrictions doesn't mean they are being properly executed, and without that they might as well not be there.