IS THE MERIT SYSTEM being used correctly by a small clique of individuals here

[cryptohunter]

I am wondering about 2 things on this forum regarding merit.


1. that high merit receivers are not those that have contributed the most to this board and the spirit of decentralised trustless projects.

(that is not what I want to study in this thread but that the first thing I want to make clear that I believe and that people should investigate full post histories to get an idea of the person they are dealing with)


2. That high merit receivers/givers are circle jerking and backslapping each other and not seeking out lower rank members who are worthy of merit to enable them to legitimately move up ranks.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1SAi_b3umCcFJO2dMoLYjWCjNz1JhOLWrsRHhYQK-nb8/edit?usp=sharing

this to me can be the source of much discussion.... probably almost the most revealing merit guide here if you can interpret it well.


this was provided by r1s2g3
on this thread
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5067161.0


Who here can provide some analysis of this for presentation.


I would like to analyse the top 50 merit receivers on this board and see if the majority of their merit comes from other members of that 50.

We could drill that down to the top 25 or expand to the top 100.

I would be interested to see the results.

I have never taken much interest in this part of the board but due to some strange deletes lately, also due to some strange decisions I see happening in here and on the reputation board. I worry there is forming here a clique that is starting to act with impunity and in an unfair manner. This is not in the spirit of decentralisation and trustless arena we are trying to create.

I would also like to see which boards get the most merit action. This is very important too.

I am not encouraging discussion here of ANYTHING outside the scope of this OP. Anything other than the analysis of the merit given and received by the top 100 or less is OFF TOPIC.

This is not a thread that should really garner much opinion until the statistics are compiled and presented. Then we can discuss what it all means.

Who can whip up some nice charts to graphically visualise this??

This is not an accusation of wrong doing this is simply an exercise to see how the merit system is working out thus far.

[1715046226]

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[Alex_Sr]

...

These statistics are already collected Most Merited Profiles. Thanks for this Vod

[cryptohunter]

...

These statistics are already collected Most Merited Profiles

I see only those that have the most merit.


That does not show me who is awarding the top 50. I want to see if the top 50 is mostly awarding itself.

Or am I not seeing where this comparison and analysis can be looked at on that website?

I would like to also apply that to the top 100 and right down to the top 10.

[Alex_Sr]

...

Most generous merit senders, all time - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=merit;stats=topsendat

Can compare these lists by the number of matches...

[Jet Cash]

Well the first thing to point out is that this forum is not a decentralised project. It has a standard hierarchy of officials and members. It may be that many members support decentralisation and are anti-globalisation ( but not all ). If this hierarchy did not exist, then it would be mayhem here, and the forum would be useless in my opinion.

Your other point that merit awarding may be abused is a topic that has been discussed in many threads. I'm sure there is a certain amount of abuse of the system, but Theymos has been fairly careful in his selection of merit sources, and their activities are under constant scrutiny by the forum statisticians.Your assumtion has a fairly obvious basis. Longer standing members will be more comfortable with their posting, and most will be able to contribute more to the forum based on their experience. It makes sense to draw merit sources from that pool as well.

[cryptohunter]

...

Most generous merit senders, all time - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=merit;stats=topsendat

Can compare these lists by the number of matches...

Thank you these are a good start.

I would certainly be willling to give merit to any person here developing a dynamic website that could evaluate this data and produce some tight stats and graphical presentations for it.

To do this manually and get it 100% correct would be quite a substantial task.

I'm sure many would be willing to merit such a worthy application  that helps to ensure board does not become a centralised backslapping circle jerk of merit hogs. Not that I have any specific analysis that allows me to say that it has as yet.

[Alex_Sr]

...

The percentage of matching lists - 42%

[cryptohunter]

Well the first thing to point out is that this forum is not a decentralised project. It has a standard hierarchy of officials and members. It may be that many members support decentralisation and are anti-globalisation ( but not all ). If this hierarchy did not exist, then it would be mayhem here, and the forum would be useless in my opinion.

Your other point that merit awarding may be abused is a topic that has been discussed in many threads. I'm sure there is a certain amount of abuse of the system, but Theymos has been fairly careful in his selection of merit sources, and their activities are under constant scrutiny by the forum statisticians.Your assumtion has a fairly obvious basis. Longer standing members will be more comfortable with their posting, and most will be able to contribute more to the forum based on their experience. It makes sense to draw merit sources from that pool as well.

Thanks for posting and there could be merit in what you have said.

However opinons are something I would care to avoid until the statistical analysis is provided to demonstrate how much merit to and fro is contained within the top 50.


The possible explanations of such activity (once determined) should only then be discussed because it may not be the case that the top 50 are circle jerking merit around at all and this notion is without foundation.

I see many posts of I have developed this analysis tool and that analysis tool. This one should be equally as simple to create could be magnitudes more important if you consider the implications.

Also where to find the metric for what boards demonstrate the most merit activity?

Is it an offense to offer merit here for things to be done for the good of the board? for instance if one was to offer 25 or 50 merit points for the first person to create such an analysis tool. To be applied say 5 per month as long as the application stays active and live?

[Alex_Sr]

...

The percentage of matching lists - 42%

This is for the top 50 ?

Yes

[LoyceV]

2. That high merit receivers/givers are circle jerking and backslapping each other and not seeking out lower rank members who are worthy of merit to enable them to legitimately move up ranks.

Who here can provide some analysis of this for presentation.

I would like to analyse the top 50 merit receivers on this board and see if the majority of their merit comes from other members of that 50.

Here you go, the two Top 50's you asked for:

Weekly update (2018-11-02_Fri_10.04h)

Total number of users who received 1 or more Merit: 23981
Sample

Code:

     1. 2876 Merit received by theymos (#35) from 565 unique users in 982 transactions
     2. 1254 Merit received by satoshi (#3) from 140 unique users in 171 transactions
     3. 1185 Merit received by LoyceV (#459836) from 230 unique users in 651 transactions
     4. 1158 Merit received by DdmrDdmr (#1582324) from 155 unique users in 543 transactions
     5. 1026 Merit received by hilariousetc (#397737) from 149 unique users in 507 transactions
     6. 933 Merit received by Last of the V8s (#479624) from 117 unique users in 661 transactions
     7. 885 Merit received by suchmoon (#234771) from 145 unique users in 477 transactions
     8. 840 Merit received by The Pharmacist (#487418) from 156 unique users in 500 transactions
     9. 780 Merit received by Vod (#30747) from 198 unique users in 385 transactions
    10. 766 Merit received by micgoossens (#1067333) from 88 unique users in 394 transactions
    11. 764 Merit received by nullius (#976210) from 132 unique users in 370 transactions
    12. 764 Merit received by Jet Cash (#698159) from 182 unique users in 439 transactions
    13. 761 Merit received by xtraelv (#897509) from 119 unique users in 325 transactions
    14. 758 Merit received by Lutpin (#520313) from 141 unique users in 192 transactions
    15. 726 Merit received by achow101 (#290195) from 109 unique users in 399 transactions
    16. 695 Merit received by Piggy (#188198) from 112 unique users in 269 transactions
    17. 692 Merit received by TMAN (#98986) from 140 unique users in 289 transactions
    18. 635 Merit received by Lauda (#101872) from 115 unique users in 202 transactions
    19. 615 Merit received by o_e_l_e_o (#1188543) from 112 unique users in 327 transactions
    20. 603 Merit received by joniboini (#1275282) from 98 unique users in 317 transactions
    21. 591 Merit received by xhomerx10 (#120694) from 87 unique users in 310 transactions
    22. 589 Merit received by iasenko (#1291828) from 135 unique users in 309 transactions
    23. 584 Merit received by gmaxwell (#11425) from 53 unique users in 143 transactions
    24. 573 Merit received by krogothmanhattan (#1000199) from 103 unique users in 226 transactions
    25. 558 Merit received by BobLawblaw (#569455) from 86 unique users in 395 transactions
    26. 554 Merit received by theyoungmillionaire (#1180530) from 107 unique users in 196 transactions
    27. 497 Merit received by marlboroza (#787736) from 107 unique users in 233 transactions
    28. 495 Merit received by HairyMaclairy (#181806) from 91 unique users in 436 transactions
    29. 484 Merit received by sncc (#1560793) from 89 unique users in 175 transactions
    30. 478 Merit received by pitipawn (#1076869) from 58 unique users in 77 transactions
    31. 470 Merit received by BTCforJoe (#557989) from 108 unique users in 192 transactions
    32. 461 Merit received by qwk (#24140) from 110 unique users in 210 transactions
    33. 460 Merit received by bitmover (#1554927) from 126 unique users in 289 transactions
    34. 439 Merit received by DarkStar_ (#507936) from 114 unique users in 192 transactions
    35. 437 Merit received by jojo69 (#49008) from 76 unique users in 276 transactions
    36. 437 Merit received by HCP (#867786) from 108 unique users in 265 transactions
    37. 436 Merit received by infofront (#41175) from 84 unique users in 301 transactions
    38. 425 Merit received by zazarb (#369212) from 38 unique users in 55 transactions
    39. 425 Merit received by abhiseshakana (#1878246) from 37 unique users in 256 transactions
    40. 422 Merit received by TheQuin (#143168) from 131 unique users in 264 transactions
    41. 416 Merit received by mole0815 (#1424178) from 50 unique users in 229 transactions
    42. 413 Merit received by coinlocket$ (#1339716) from 102 unique users in 222 transactions
    43. 404 Merit received by bob123 (#579628) from 75 unique users in 238 transactions
    44. 403 Merit received by JayJuanGee (#252510) from 106 unique users in 303 transactions
    45. 403 Merit received by Hhampuz (#881377) from 95 unique users in 165 transactions
    46. 400 Merit received by Torque (#163318) from 84 unique users in 325 transactions
    47. 395 Merit received by PHI1618 (#1071136) from 63 unique users in 132 transactions
    48. 393 Merit received by Smart man (#1090672) from 103 unique users in 176 transactions
    49. 391 Merit received by OgNasty (#18321) from 115 unique users in 185 transactions
    50. 385 Merit received by DannyHamilton (#60820) from 90 unique users in 200 transactions

Full list (2 MB)

Total number of users who gave away 1 or more sMerit: 18374
Sample

Code:

     1. 6624 Merit sent by suchmoon (#234771) to 779 unique users in 1907 transactions
     2. 3225 Merit sent by QuestionAuthority (#72795) to 198 unique users in 226 transactions
     3. 3210 Merit sent by dbshck (#153634) to 491 unique users in 1645 transactions
     4. 3130 Merit sent by Foxpup (#55384) to 203 unique users in 1272 transactions
     5. 2587 Merit sent by qwk (#24140) to 365 unique users in 1767 transactions
     6. 2586 Merit sent by TMAN (#98986) to 346 unique users in 869 transactions
     7. 2145 Merit sent by Vod (#30747) to 415 unique users in 868 transactions
     8. 1910 Merit sent by EFS (#140584) to 333 unique users in 861 transactions
     9. 1763 Merit sent by paxmao (#1192397) to 645 unique users in 1379 transactions
    10. 1763 Merit sent by chimk (#1202061) to 415 unique users in 1223 transactions
    11. 1322 Merit sent by bones261 (#452769) to 389 unique users in 826 transactions
    12. 1289 Merit sent by LoyceV (#459836) to 489 unique users in 1149 transactions
    13. 1231 Merit sent by DarkStar_ (#507936) to 366 unique users in 553 transactions
    14. 1160 Merit sent by xandry (#382413) to 258 unique users in 993 transactions
    15. 1152 Merit sent by JayJuanGee (#252510) to 416 unique users in 1143 transactions
    16. 1051 Merit sent by BobLawblaw (#569455) to 120 unique users in 625 transactions
    17. 937 Merit sent by OgNasty (#18321) to 612 unique users in 829 transactions
    18. 909 Merit sent by frodocooper (#988740) to 149 unique users in 532 transactions
    19. 885 Merit sent by Jet Cash (#698159) to 336 unique users in 575 transactions
    20. 879 Merit sent by Micio (#115423) to 84 unique users in 411 transactions
    21. 878 Merit sent by Welsh (#84521) to 212 unique users in 403 transactions
    22. 785 Merit sent by LFC_Bitcoin (#379487) to 223 unique users in 643 transactions
    23. 774 Merit sent by achow101 (#290195) to 147 unique users in 377 transactions
    24. 767 Merit sent by theymos (#35) to 115 unique users in 143 transactions
    25. 733 Merit sent by Flying Hellfish (#79608) to 149 unique users in 281 transactions
    26. 701 Merit sent by teramit (#158960) to 197 unique users in 319 transactions
    27. 678 Merit sent by mprep (#51173) to 210 unique users in 393 transactions
    28. 668 Merit sent by mindrust (#176777) to 194 unique users in 320 transactions
    29. 657 Merit sent by Vlad2Vlad (#112208) to 52 unique users in 126 transactions
    30. 637 Merit sent by vapourminer (#33156) to 417 unique users in 608 transactions
    31. 630 Merit sent by The Pharmacist (#487418) to 268 unique users in 513 transactions
    32. 583 Merit sent by malevolent (#23092) to 158 unique users in 264 transactions
    33. 541 Merit sent by DdmrDdmr (#1582324) to 230 unique users in 507 transactions
    34. 538 Merit sent by Halab (#1053119) to 101 unique users in 255 transactions
    35. 535 Merit sent by Last of the V8s (#479624) to 151 unique users in 529 transactions
    36. 508 Merit sent by krogothmanhattan (#1000199) to 158 unique users in 313 transactions
    37. 503 Merit sent by hilariousetc (#397737) to 134 unique users in 262 transactions
    38. 486 Merit sent by xhomerx10 (#120694) to 150 unique users in 367 transactions
    39. 466 Merit sent by sapta (#347141) to 73 unique users in 105 transactions
    40. 426 Merit sent by Globb0 (#244243) to 74 unique users in 137 transactions
    41. 420 Merit sent by theymos_away (#349090) to 79 unique users in 89 transactions
    42. 399 Merit sent by hilariousandco (#164822) to 100 unique users in 170 transactions
    43. 392 Merit sent by iCEBREAKER (#17501) to 99 unique users in 125 transactions
    44. 390 Merit sent by RegulusHr (#1163424) to 74 unique users in 357 transactions
    45. 387 Merit sent by micgoossens (#1067333) to 83 unique users in 365 transactions
    46. 385 Merit sent by xtraelv (#897509) to 190 unique users in 369 transactions
    47. 382 Merit sent by cAPSLOCK (#35501) to 65 unique users in 150 transactions
    48. 381 Merit sent by rickbig41 (#553678) to 106 unique users in 169 transactions
    49. 381 Merit sent by infofront (#41175) to 108 unique users in 371 transactions
    50. 373 Merit sent by Lutpin (#520313) to 123 unique users in 159 transactions

Full list (2 MB)

You can easily see most users in the Top 50 sent and received Merit to and from much more than 50 different users.

This is not a thread that should really garner much opinion until the statistics are compiled and presented. Then we can discuss what it all means.

I'll share my opinion anyway: It makes sense that the Top 50 senders send a lot to the Top 50 receivers, that's what puts both of them in the top. It also makes sense that a relatively small group of people creates most good posts, and it makes sense that good posters are made merit sources.
So what you're trying to prove, it kinda to be expected. And yet, the "circles" are much bigger.

There are several analyses on Merit in Meta, and there are several things to consider before calling it "a circle jerk". I find "Merit per post" and "percentage of posts Merited" pretty good indicators for the quality of a user. Here's yours for example:

User cryptohunter (full history)

• Received a total of 27 Merit up to last Friday.
• Received 1 Merit (3.70%) for 1 (0%) of 11103 posts created before the introduction of Merit (0 Merit per old post).
• Received 26 Merit (96.29%) for 16 (1.39%) of 1149 posts created after the introduction of Merit (0.0226 Merit per new post).
• Received 0 Merit for posts that are now deleted.

[cryptohunter]

...

The percentage of matching lists - 42%

This is for the top 50 ?

Yes

The true telling point with be the amounts awarded. I think such a tool to analyse this very important (to those who want to level up ) would be of top priority.

I would love to know which boards have the most merit action also.

[erikoy]

I see your point OP, getting 1 merit for newbie is a challenge and we must leave that way for the starters to earn recognition and acknowledgement from the merit source. However, once they earn merit it will just leave like that stuck up with the current rank. I have seen some Jr. member good posters in the forum and that are active in meta section that does always contribute their valuable ideas every time a newbie posted a thread to earn merit. Those users must be motivated to share more on their ideas by awarding merit probably or some sort of encouragement through replies.

Only 1 merit and 30 activity needed for a newbie to rank up to a jr. member rank. But, after ranking up to jr. member later on the problem in getting another 10 merit to rank up to member would be harder. I was just lucky that merit source has provided me enough merit to rank up to member. But then, I stuck in this rank. Anyway, being a member is already enough to be part of the forum but it is more good when I could wear that Avatar one day.

[suchmoon]

The true telling point with be the amounts awarded. I think such a tool to analyse this very important (to those who want to level up ) would be of top priority.

I would love to know which boards have the most merit action also.

You have the data, get to work and let us know.

[Jet Cash]

If it is any help, LoyceV provided a merit history for me. I haven't updated it since June, but the list is here -
http://talkmerit.com/projects/merit-history.html

Maybe I should publish a second page. The comparison might be interesting.

[mainconcept]

I would also like to see which boards get the most merit action. This is very important too.

Edit: These are the top merit receivers by local section / non-local section:

For any local section:

Code:

Total Merit	Local board
574	Bahasa Indonesia (Indonesian)
420	Deutsch (German)
371	Pyccкий (Russian)
339	Türkçe (Turkish)
246	Português (Portuguese)
184	Français
153	Hrvatski (Croatian)
144	Español (Spanish)
137	Italiano (Italian)
132	Philippines
120	中文 (Chinese)
100	日本語 (Japanese)
77	Nederlands (Dutch)
75	العربية (Arabic)
66	한국어 (Korean)
63	Other languages/locations
42	Eλληνικά (Greek)
37	Română (Romanian)
34	Polski
30	India
2	Skandinavisk

For any non-local section:

Code:

Total Merit	Non-Local board
2418	Meta
1263	Bitcoin Discussion
1067	Beginners & Help
951	Economics
692	Development & Technical Discussion
553	Marketplace
392	
365	Announcements (Altcoins)
313	Bitcoin Technical Support
299	Off-topic
290	Trading Discussion
271	Mining (Altcoins)
247	Marketplace (Altcoins)
242	Mining
192	Altcoin Discussion
135	Project Development
132	Serious discussion
128	Politics & Society
125	Archival
123	Speculation (Altcoins)

Credits to Piggy for his SQL Merit search tool.

Query used for the non-local section:

Code:

SELECT MAX(result.total) as "Total Merit", result.SubBoard as "Non-Local board" FROM (
	SELECT toid, SubBoard, SUM(Merit) AS total
	FROM meritdata as m
	WHERE m.Board in (SELECT Board FROM meritdata Where Board not like "Local%" GROUP BY Board)
	GROUP BY toid, Board
	ORDER BY Board,total Desc) AS result
GROUP BY SubBoard
ORDER BY result.total Desc

Query used for the local section:

We can easily get the Top Receiver for any local section simply using this:

Code:

SELECT MAX(result.total) as "Total Merit", result.toid as "Top merit receiver", result.SubBoard as "Local board" FROM (
	SELECT toid, SubBoard, SUM(Merit) AS total
	FROM meritdata as m
	WHERE m.Board in (SELECT Board FROM meritdata Where Board like "Local%" GROUP BY Board)
	GROUP BY toid, Board
	ORDER BY Board,total Desc) AS result
GROUP BY SubBoard
ORDER BY result.total Desc

EDIT:
This seems to be the correct query, the queries above refer to the top merit receivers by subboard.

Code:

SELECT SUM(Merit) as "Total Merit", board, subboard from MeritData
Group by SubBoard
order by SUM(merit) desc

Code:

Total Merit	Board	SubBoard
31067	Local	Pyccкий (Russian)
30475	Alternate cryptocurrencies	Announcements (Altcoins)
26075	Other	Meta
20590	Economy	Economics
16800	Economy	Marketplace
14432	Local	Türkçe (Turkish)
12787	Alternate cryptocurrencies	Altcoin Discussion
12266	Bitcoin	Bitcoin Discussion
11083	Message DELETED!	
9769	Local	Bahasa Indonesia (Indonesian)
7905	Economy	Trading Discussion
7423	Local	Deutsch (German)
7110	Bitcoin	Development & Technical Discussion
6273	Alternate cryptocurrencies	Marketplace (Altcoins)
5275	Alternate cryptocurrencies	Mining (Altcoins)
4738	Other	Beginners & Help
3584	Local	Français
3283	Bitcoin	Mining
3065	Other	Off-topic
3016	Alternate cryptocurrencies	Speculation (Altcoins)
2677	Other	Politics & Society
2658	Other	Serious discussion
2624	Local	Italiano (Italian)
2381	Local	中文 (Chinese)
2197	Local	Español (Spanish)
2141	Local	Philippines
1826	Local	Português (Portuguese)
1757	Bitcoin	Bitcoin Technical Support
1727	Local	Hrvatski (Croatian)
954	Bitcoin	Project Development
660	Local	العربية (Arabic)
563	Local	Other languages/locations
544	Local	Eλληνικά (Greek)
512	Local	日本語 (Japanese)
349	Local	Nederlands (Dutch)
337	Local	Polski
247	Other	Archival
198	Local	India
139	Local	Română (Romanian)
100	Local	한국어 (Korean)
2	Local	Skandinavisk

Query for cross-checking with the total merit query:

Code:

SELECT SUM("Total Merit") from (
SELECT SUM(Merit) as "Total Merit", board, subboard from MeritData
Group by SubBoard
order by SUM(merit) desc)

--> Seems good now:

Code:

SUM("Total Merit")
261609

Code:

SELECT SUM(Merit) from MeritData

Total Merit:

Code:

SUM(Merit)
261609

[cryptohunter]

2. That high merit receivers/givers are circle jerking and backslapping each other and not seeking out lower rank members who are worthy of merit to enable them to legitimately move up ranks.

Who here can provide some analysis of this for presentation.

I would like to analyse the top 50 merit receivers on this board and see if the majority of their merit comes from other members of that 50.

Here you go, the two Top 50's you asked for:

Weekly update (2018-11-02_Fri_10.04h)

Total number of users who received 1 or more Merit: 23981
Sample

Code:

     1. 2876 Merit received by theymos (#35) from 565 unique users in 982 transactions
     2. 1254 Merit received by satoshi (#3) from 140 unique users in 171 transactions
     3. 1185 Merit received by LoyceV (#459836) from 230 unique users in 651 transactions
     4. 1158 Merit received by DdmrDdmr (#1582324) from 155 unique users in 543 transactions
     5. 1026 Merit received by hilariousetc (#397737) from 149 unique users in 507 transactions
     6. 933 Merit received by Last of the V8s (#479624) from 117 unique users in 661 transactions
     7. 885 Merit received by suchmoon (#234771) from 145 unique users in 477 transactions
     8. 840 Merit received by The Pharmacist (#487418) from 156 unique users in 500 transactions
     9. 780 Merit received by Vod (#30747) from 198 unique users in 385 transactions
    10. 766 Merit received by micgoossens (#1067333) from 88 unique users in 394 transactions
    11. 764 Merit received by nullius (#976210) from 132 unique users in 370 transactions
    12. 764 Merit received by Jet Cash (#698159) from 182 unique users in 439 transactions
    13. 761 Merit received by xtraelv (#897509) from 119 unique users in 325 transactions
    14. 758 Merit received by Lutpin (#520313) from 141 unique users in 192 transactions
    15. 726 Merit received by achow101 (#290195) from 109 unique users in 399 transactions
    16. 695 Merit received by Piggy (#188198) from 112 unique users in 269 transactions
    17. 692 Merit received by TMAN (#98986) from 140 unique users in 289 transactions
    18. 635 Merit received by Lauda (#101872) from 115 unique users in 202 transactions
    19. 615 Merit received by o_e_l_e_o (#1188543) from 112 unique users in 327 transactions
    20. 603 Merit received by joniboini (#1275282) from 98 unique users in 317 transactions
    21. 591 Merit received by xhomerx10 (#120694) from 87 unique users in 310 transactions
    22. 589 Merit received by iasenko (#1291828) from 135 unique users in 309 transactions
    23. 584 Merit received by gmaxwell (#11425) from 53 unique users in 143 transactions
    24. 573 Merit received by krogothmanhattan (#1000199) from 103 unique users in 226 transactions
    25. 558 Merit received by BobLawblaw (#569455) from 86 unique users in 395 transactions
    26. 554 Merit received by theyoungmillionaire (#1180530) from 107 unique users in 196 transactions
    27. 497 Merit received by marlboroza (#787736) from 107 unique users in 233 transactions
    28. 495 Merit received by HairyMaclairy (#181806) from 91 unique users in 436 transactions
    29. 484 Merit received by sncc (#1560793) from 89 unique users in 175 transactions
    30. 478 Merit received by pitipawn (#1076869) from 58 unique users in 77 transactions
    31. 470 Merit received by BTCforJoe (#557989) from 108 unique users in 192 transactions
    32. 461 Merit received by qwk (#24140) from 110 unique users in 210 transactions
    33. 460 Merit received by bitmover (#1554927) from 126 unique users in 289 transactions
    34. 439 Merit received by DarkStar_ (#507936) from 114 unique users in 192 transactions
    35. 437 Merit received by jojo69 (#49008) from 76 unique users in 276 transactions
    36. 437 Merit received by HCP (#867786) from 108 unique users in 265 transactions
    37. 436 Merit received by infofront (#41175) from 84 unique users in 301 transactions
    38. 425 Merit received by zazarb (#369212) from 38 unique users in 55 transactions
    39. 425 Merit received by abhiseshakana (#1878246) from 37 unique users in 256 transactions
    40. 422 Merit received by TheQuin (#143168) from 131 unique users in 264 transactions
    41. 416 Merit received by mole0815 (#1424178) from 50 unique users in 229 transactions
    42. 413 Merit received by coinlocket$ (#1339716) from 102 unique users in 222 transactions
    43. 404 Merit received by bob123 (#579628) from 75 unique users in 238 transactions
    44. 403 Merit received by JayJuanGee (#252510) from 106 unique users in 303 transactions
    45. 403 Merit received by Hhampuz (#881377) from 95 unique users in 165 transactions
    46. 400 Merit received by Torque (#163318) from 84 unique users in 325 transactions
    47. 395 Merit received by PHI1618 (#1071136) from 63 unique users in 132 transactions
    48. 393 Merit received by Smart man (#1090672) from 103 unique users in 176 transactions
    49. 391 Merit received by OgNasty (#18321) from 115 unique users in 185 transactions
    50. 385 Merit received by DannyHamilton (#60820) from 90 unique users in 200 transactions

Full list (2 MB)

Total number of users who gave away 1 or more sMerit: 18374
Sample

Code:

     1. 6624 Merit sent by suchmoon (#234771) to 779 unique users in 1907 transactions
     2. 3225 Merit sent by QuestionAuthority (#72795) to 198 unique users in 226 transactions
     3. 3210 Merit sent by dbshck (#153634) to 491 unique users in 1645 transactions
     4. 3130 Merit sent by Foxpup (#55384) to 203 unique users in 1272 transactions
     5. 2587 Merit sent by qwk (#24140) to 365 unique users in 1767 transactions
     6. 2586 Merit sent by TMAN (#98986) to 346 unique users in 869 transactions
     7. 2145 Merit sent by Vod (#30747) to 415 unique users in 868 transactions
     8. 1910 Merit sent by EFS (#140584) to 333 unique users in 861 transactions
     9. 1763 Merit sent by paxmao (#1192397) to 645 unique users in 1379 transactions
    10. 1763 Merit sent by chimk (#1202061) to 415 unique users in 1223 transactions
    11. 1322 Merit sent by bones261 (#452769) to 389 unique users in 826 transactions
    12. 1289 Merit sent by LoyceV (#459836) to 489 unique users in 1149 transactions
    13. 1231 Merit sent by DarkStar_ (#507936) to 366 unique users in 553 transactions
    14. 1160 Merit sent by xandry (#382413) to 258 unique users in 993 transactions
    15. 1152 Merit sent by JayJuanGee (#252510) to 416 unique users in 1143 transactions
    16. 1051 Merit sent by BobLawblaw (#569455) to 120 unique users in 625 transactions
    17. 937 Merit sent by OgNasty (#18321) to 612 unique users in 829 transactions
    18. 909 Merit sent by frodocooper (#988740) to 149 unique users in 532 transactions
    19. 885 Merit sent by Jet Cash (#698159) to 336 unique users in 575 transactions
    20. 879 Merit sent by Micio (#115423) to 84 unique users in 411 transactions
    21. 878 Merit sent by Welsh (#84521) to 212 unique users in 403 transactions
    22. 785 Merit sent by LFC_Bitcoin (#379487) to 223 unique users in 643 transactions
    23. 774 Merit sent by achow101 (#290195) to 147 unique users in 377 transactions
    24. 767 Merit sent by theymos (#35) to 115 unique users in 143 transactions
    25. 733 Merit sent by Flying Hellfish (#79608) to 149 unique users in 281 transactions
    26. 701 Merit sent by teramit (#158960) to 197 unique users in 319 transactions
    27. 678 Merit sent by mprep (#51173) to 210 unique users in 393 transactions
    28. 668 Merit sent by mindrust (#176777) to 194 unique users in 320 transactions
    29. 657 Merit sent by Vlad2Vlad (#112208) to 52 unique users in 126 transactions
    30. 637 Merit sent by vapourminer (#33156) to 417 unique users in 608 transactions
    31. 630 Merit sent by The Pharmacist (#487418) to 268 unique users in 513 transactions
    32. 583 Merit sent by malevolent (#23092) to 158 unique users in 264 transactions
    33. 541 Merit sent by DdmrDdmr (#1582324) to 230 unique users in 507 transactions
    34. 538 Merit sent by Halab (#1053119) to 101 unique users in 255 transactions
    35. 535 Merit sent by Last of the V8s (#479624) to 151 unique users in 529 transactions
    36. 508 Merit sent by krogothmanhattan (#1000199) to 158 unique users in 313 transactions
    37. 503 Merit sent by hilariousetc (#397737) to 134 unique users in 262 transactions
    38. 486 Merit sent by xhomerx10 (#120694) to 150 unique users in 367 transactions
    39. 466 Merit sent by sapta (#347141) to 73 unique users in 105 transactions
    40. 426 Merit sent by Globb0 (#244243) to 74 unique users in 137 transactions
    41. 420 Merit sent by theymos_away (#349090) to 79 unique users in 89 transactions
    42. 399 Merit sent by hilariousandco (#164822) to 100 unique users in 170 transactions
    43. 392 Merit sent by iCEBREAKER (#17501) to 99 unique users in 125 transactions
    44. 390 Merit sent by RegulusHr (#1163424) to 74 unique users in 357 transactions
    45. 387 Merit sent by micgoossens (#1067333) to 83 unique users in 365 transactions
    46. 385 Merit sent by xtraelv (#897509) to 190 unique users in 369 transactions
    47. 382 Merit sent by cAPSLOCK (#35501) to 65 unique users in 150 transactions
    48. 381 Merit sent by rickbig41 (#553678) to 106 unique users in 169 transactions
    49. 381 Merit sent by infofront (#41175) to 108 unique users in 371 transactions
    50. 373 Merit sent by Lutpin (#520313) to 123 unique users in 159 transactions

Full list (2 MB)

You can easily see most users in the Top 50 sent and received Merit to and from much more than 50 different users.

This is not a thread that should really garner much opinion until the statistics are compiled and presented. Then we can discuss what it all means.

I'll share my opinion anyway: It makes sense that the Top 50 senders send a lot to the Top 50 receivers, that's what puts both of them in the top. It also makes sense that a relatively small group of people creates most good posts, and it makes sense that good posters are made merit sources.
So what you're trying to prove, it kinda to be expected. And yet, the "circles" are much bigger.

Thanks for this post.

I want to make it first clear that I am not trying to prove anything. From my brief interest of late into all this merit obsession I seemed noticed there are a small group that seems to be circle jerking merit amongst themselves on obscure boards that most users will not ever use.

That was a small sample size of course and statistically therefore held little power. So I just decided to investigate further.

I was hoping actually to disprove my suspicion and see that the top merit holders that were already mostly legends were taking time to get out on the most populated boards and help newer and lower rank members level up. Rather than mostly award each other merits when they are already at legend status.

The stats already provided are powerful confirmation that former is  happening. I would suspect if we could get a graphical representation of these stats drilled down to exact number merits given and received amongst the top 50 per individual that would demonstrate just how much the top 50 is hogging the merits amongst themselves, and certain members are really giving each other some serious merit love.

Who are the merit sources here btw? and what is a merit source exactly? I have previous not paid any notice of the kind of board metrics before since I am not a trader here. I am starting to take an interest in DT of late too I had not even known such a thing existed. I am interested to see how one is eligible and then who decides on DT. (that discussion is for another thread though).

This is certainly not a witch hunt for individuals but rather an attempt to let us evaluate and discuss how the merit system is working out for the entire board so far.

This place used to be the best forum on the net for free speech and a self governing community that weeded out scammers and desirables in a much more decentralised way. It seems to be lately going the other way. This may be unavoidable due to the scammers and ico bots out numbering genuine users and enthusiasts.

I would love to see a simple metric that shows ie x%  total number of all merit (not number of times they gave merit -- i would like to know the exact merit ) given by the the top 100 went only to other top 100 members.  then be able to do that for top 10, 20 , 50,

I would like to see which boards  are the beneficiary of the merit given by the top 10, 20, 50, 100 and that matched to the amount of posts taking place on each board. Just to see how disproportionate this actually is.

[LoyceV]

If it is any help, LoyceV provided a merit history for me. I haven't updated it since June, but the list is here -

Try http://loycevsbasement.privatedns.org/Merit/history/698159.html
I'll update it again in a few hours.

[cryptohunter]

The true telling point with be the amounts awarded. I think such a tool to analyse this very important (to those who want to level up ) would be of top priority.

I would love to know which boards have the most merit action also.

You have the data, get to work and let us know.

What no offer of help?

You could get some additional merit for such a useful tool.


@LoyceV

thank you very much for this

Total Merit   Non-Local board
2418   Meta
1263   Bitcoin Discussion
1067   Beginners & Help
951   Economics
692   Development & Technical Discussion
553   Marketplace
392   
365   Announcements (Altcoins)
313   Bitcoin Technical Support
299   Off-topic
290   Trading Discussion
271   Mining (Altcoins)
247   Marketplace (Altcoins)
242   Mining
192   Altcoin Discussion


Meta - 247262 Posts - 2418 merit

Alt discussion board - 2564018 Posts - 192 merit

Bitcoin discussion board - 2038120 Posts  - 1263 merit


These are quite interesting and confirm that meta although generally receiving 10x less traffic than the alt discussion board (where most new people are posting) still gets nearly 13x more merit activity.  So that is quite alarming if you are going on a post to probability of merit ratio alone. 130x more likely to get merit for a post in meta- - Is that even vaguely correct?? Math is not my best thing actually so no shame in asking for assistance and confirmation.

Even bitcoins main forum that is far more moderated to raise the level of post quality.. is at 10x more posts and 2x less merit. So the ration there is better than the alt board but king of the hill by far and where you want be posting is meta, and you want to be in the top 50.

So in the most obscure board (for most) and be already one of the highest merit profiles is the quickest way to more merit it would seem.

However yes, if everyone was as helpfull as loyceV then perhaps they should be entitled to high merit.  

I had suspected merit was introduced to enable only valid posters to level up so have often ignored very good posts from legends since I could not see any benefit to them to have extra when I could give lower level members that were trying hard a chance to level up.

[LoyceV]

Who are the merit sources here btw? and what is a merit source exactly? I have previous not paid any notice of the kind of board metrics before since I am not a trader here. I am starting to take an interest in DT of late too I had not even known such a thing existed. I am interested to see how one is eligible and then who decides on DT. (that discussion is for another thread though).

You're asking many questions that have been discussed and answered in Meta many times. I recommend you read a bit more first in other threads.
I can also recommend checking the last topics started by Piggy and DdmrDdmr. I think you're going to love their work on Merit statistics (partially interactive).

Further reading: [TOP-200] Members who support newbies - Thanks!.

[Jet Cash]

I'm going to prove the theory if I'm not careful. I've given Loyce 2 merits each for two of his posts today. I guess I need to lock my merit bag.

[seoincorporation]

Hello cryptohunter, i understand your worries. Sometimes i see that Merit mafia too but is just paranoia.

That high merit receivers/givers are circle jerking and backslapping each other and not seeking out lower rank members

Some users roll that way, i mean, if you become a friend of merit sources that resumes in more chance to get merits. But the merit sources are working hard to make a fair distribution of merits, or at least is that way in the Spanish section with our great merit source JetCash. This guy is making weekly merits giveaways to give the chance to all users to get merits as you can see on this thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5064480.0 and he even create a thread called 'The merit to become junior' (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5030808.0) on that thread he offers one merit to newbies if they bring a good quality post.

So, as you say we see a lot of users making a merit circle, but a lot of them are helping newbies too. So, let's not be paranoids and if you see someone abusing the system, then report him.

[DdmrDdmr]

And here I was trying to ease off the stats....

The Top 50 Receivers have received  26,38% of their sMerits on average from within the top 50 Receivers. That means 73,63% comes from outside of the top 50. Good enough for me ..

nMeritTop50:             Merit Received from top 50 Receivers .
nMeritReceivedTotal:  Total Merit Received.      

Code:

nMeritTop50    nMeritReceivedTotal    %         user_id        name                               url
490            1172           41,81%         1582324        DdmrDdmr                           https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1582324
393            1203           32,67%         459836         LoyceV                             https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=459836
387            1044           37,07%         397737         hilariousetc                       https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=397737
338            779            43,39%         897509         xtraelv                            https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=897509
307            991            30,98%         479624         Last of the V8s                    https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=479624
302            817            36,96%         1067333        micgoossens                        https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1067333
299            869            34,41%         487418         The Pharmacist                     https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=487418
297            2878           10,32%         35             theymos                            https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=35
273            776            35,18%         698159         Jet Cash                           https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=698159
250            643            38,88%         1188543        o_e_l_e_o                          https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1188543
247            602            41,03%         1291828        iasenko                            https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1291828
243            507            47,93%         787736         marlboroza                         https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=787736
240            764            31,41%         976210         nullius                            https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=976210
230            900            25,56%         234771         suchmoon                           https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=234771
219            613            35,73%         120694         xhomerx10                          https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=120694
215            427            50,35%         579628         bob123                             https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=579628
207            585            35,38%         11425          gmaxwell                           https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=11425
206            816            25,25%         30747          Vod                                https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=30747
206            448            45,98%         867786         HCP                                https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=867786
200            697            28,69%         98986          TMAN                               https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=98986
195            709            27,50%         188198         Piggy                              https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=188198
179            487            36,76%         1560793        sncc                               https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1560793
172            471            36,52%         557989         BTCforJoe                          https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=557989
167            564            29,61%         569455         BobLawblaw                         https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=569455
167            501            33,33%         181806         HairyMaclairy                      https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=181806
158            555            28,47%         1180530        theyoungmillionaire                https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1180530
155            465            33,33%         1554927        bitmover                           https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1554927
150            420            35,71%         1424178        mole0815                           https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1424178
148            404            36,63%         881377         Hhampuz                            https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=881377
147            733            20,05%         290195         achow101                           https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=290195
142            447            31,77%         49008          jojo69                             https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=49008
138            424            32,55%         143168         TheQuin                            https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=143168
134            443            30,25%         41175          infofront                          https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=41175
128            758            16,89%         520313         Lutpin                             https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=520313
124            425            29,18%         252510         JayJuanGee                         https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=252510
123            416            29,57%         1339716        coinlocket$                        https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1339716
118            402            29,35%         163318         Torque                             https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=163318
110            641            17,16%         101872         Lauda                              https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=101872
101            579            17,44%         1000199        krogothmanhattan                   https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1000199
90             422            21,33%         18321          OgNasty                            https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=18321
77             442            17,42%         507936         DarkStar_                          https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=507936
68             1263           05,38%         3              satoshi                            https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=3
63             395            15,95%         64205          Carlton Banks                      https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=64205
45             447            10,07%         1878246        abhiseshakana                      https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1878246
39             614            06,35%         1275282        joniboini                          https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1275282
36             465            07,74%         24140          qwk                                https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=24140
14             426            03,29%         369212         zazarb                             https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=369212
1              396            00,25%         1071136        PHI1618                            https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1071136
1              478            00,21%         1076869        pitipawn                           https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1076869
0              400            00,00%         1090672        Smart man                          https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1090672

[LoyceV]

And here I was trying to ease of the stats....

Why? You're good at it!

The Top 50 Receivers have received  26,38% of their sMerits on average from within the top 50 Receivers. That means 73,63% goes comes from outside of the top 50. Good enough for me ..

My adjustment in red. Is this what you meant? And if so, can you do the same for the Top 50 Senders?

[DdmrDdmr]

<...>

Got a bit bored at seeing some comments and thought I could use the time otherwise…
Thanks for the correction; can’t be working, and cooking and scraping and doing stats all at the same time…

[cryptohunter]

And here I was trying to ease of the stats....

The Top 50 Receivers have received  26,38% of their sMerits on average from within the top 50 Receivers. That means 73,63% comes from of the top 50. Good enough for me ..

nMeritTop50:             Merit Received from top 50 Receivers .
nMeritReceivedTotal:  Total Merit Received.      

Code:

nMeritTop50    nMeritReceivedTotal    %         user_id        name                               url
490            1172           41,81%         1582324        DdmrDdmr                           https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1582324
393            1203           32,67%         459836         LoyceV                             https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=459836
387            1044           37,07%         397737         hilariousetc                       https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=397737
338            779            43,39%         897509         xtraelv                            https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=897509
307            991            30,98%         479624         Last of the V8s                    https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=479624
302            817            36,96%         1067333        micgoossens                        https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1067333
299            869            34,41%         487418         The Pharmacist                     https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=487418
297            2878           10,32%         35             theymos                            https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=35
273            776            35,18%         698159         Jet Cash                           https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=698159
250            643            38,88%         1188543        o_e_l_e_o                          https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1188543
247            602            41,03%         1291828        iasenko                            https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1291828
243            507            47,93%         787736         marlboroza                         https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=787736
240            764            31,41%         976210         nullius                            https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=976210
230            900            25,56%         234771         suchmoon                           https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=234771
219            613            35,73%         120694         xhomerx10                          https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=120694
215            427            50,35%         579628         bob123                             https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=579628
207            585            35,38%         11425          gmaxwell                           https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=11425
206            816            25,25%         30747          Vod                                https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=30747
206            448            45,98%         867786         HCP                                https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=867786
200            697            28,69%         98986          TMAN                               https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=98986
195            709            27,50%         188198         Piggy                              https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=188198
179            487            36,76%         1560793        sncc                               https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1560793
172            471            36,52%         557989         BTCforJoe                          https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=557989
167            564            29,61%         569455         BobLawblaw                         https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=569455
167            501            33,33%         181806         HairyMaclairy                      https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=181806
158            555            28,47%         1180530        theyoungmillionaire                https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1180530
155            465            33,33%         1554927        bitmover                           https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1554927
150            420            35,71%         1424178        mole0815                           https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1424178
148            404            36,63%         881377         Hhampuz                            https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=881377
147            733            20,05%         290195         achow101                           https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=290195
142            447            31,77%         49008          jojo69                             https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=49008
138            424            32,55%         143168         TheQuin                            https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=143168
134            443            30,25%         41175          infofront                          https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=41175
128            758            16,89%         520313         Lutpin                             https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=520313
124            425            29,18%         252510         JayJuanGee                         https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=252510
123            416            29,57%         1339716        coinlocket$                        https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1339716
118            402            29,35%         163318         Torque                             https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=163318
110            641            17,16%         101872         Lauda                              https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=101872
101            579            17,44%         1000199        krogothmanhattan                   https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1000199
90             422            21,33%         18321          OgNasty                            https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=18321
77             442            17,42%         507936         DarkStar_                          https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=507936
68             1263           05,38%         3              satoshi                            https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=3
63             395            15,95%         64205          Carlton Banks                      https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=64205
45             447            10,07%         1878246        abhiseshakana                      https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1878246
39             614            06,35%         1275282        joniboini                          https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1275282
36             465            07,74%         24140          qwk                                https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=24140
14             426            03,29%         369212         zazarb                             https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=369212
1              396            00,25%         1071136        PHI1618                            https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1071136
1              478            00,21%         1076869        pitipawn                           https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1076869
0              400            00,00%         1090672        Smart man                          https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1090672

Thank you for that. Very helpful.

So we are saying a 26% of smerits  to the top 50 come from the top 50.  So they are sending roughly 3/4 to those outside of the top 50.

That does not even seem a little high for a board with apparently 2M members?


Would it be possible for you to do that for the top 10 , top 20 and top 100 at all?

That would be very go to know. I am dreadful at math and stats. Just one of those things. I remember at school getting out from a calculus lecture and a looking up where the social science block was.


Edit - - hold on i notice a change to something.

so the top 50 are receiving roughly 75% of their merits from out side of the top 50 ?

Is this the same as saying the top 50 merit holders send approx 25% of their total merits to the other top 50 merit holders.

If that is the case that is not great on a board of apparently 2m users? but still I had suspected it could be even higher.

So to just be clear  can someone fill in the X


top 50 merit holders send x % of their merits to top 50 merit holders.

top 20 merit holder send x % of their merits to top 20 merit holders.

top 10 merit holder send x % of their merits to top 10 merit holders.

top 100 merit holder send x % of their merits to top 100 merit holders.

that would be great.

[suchmoon]

What no offer of help?

You could get some additional merit for such a useful tool.

Why would I need more merits?

My time is better spent sending merits, not receiving them.

These are quite interesting and confirm that meta although generally receiving 10x less traffic than the alt discussion board (where most new people are posting) still gets nearly 13x more merit activity.  So that is quite alarming if you are going on a post to probability of merit ratio alone. 130x more likely to get merit for a post in meta- - Is that even vaguely correct?? Math is not my best thing actually so no shame in asking for assistance and confirmation.

There is no surprise that good posters and otherwise valuable members also tend to care about forum issues and comment on them in Meta.

Even bitcoins main forum that is far more moderated to raise the level of post quality.. is at 10x more posts and 2x less merit. So the ration there is better than the alt board but king of the hill by far and where you want be posting is meta, and you want to be in the top 50.

And that's the wrong conclusion. Shitty posters in Meta get laughed at and their posting histories get looked into and they often end up worse (neg trust, plagiarism reports, etc). You got the correlation/causation thing wrong. Posting in Meta doesn't mean you'll get merits. Making good posts in Meta or elsewhere may increase your chances of getting merit. Making shitty posts may decrease your chances of getting merit.

[qwk]

So we are saying a 26% of smerits  to the top 50 come from the top 50.  So they are sending roughly 3/4 to those outside of the top 50.

That does not even seem a little high for a board with apparently 2M members?

Hm, let me consider this. No. Not at all.

Apparently, it looks like favoritism / nepotism of some kind at first glance.
But keep in mind: a large share of freely available merit comes from merit sources.
Merit sources are (if not by definition) people who usually also receive a decent amount of merit.
Why? Because that's how you become a merit source in the first place.
To become a merit source, you'll have to have a history of actually giving away merit.
To have such a history, you'll have to have merit in the first place.
How do you get that merit? By making meaningful, quality posts that are rewarded with merit.

In simpler terms:
1. write good posts
2. receive merit
3. give away merit
4. theymos sees "hey, he / she's giving away merit"
5. you'll become a merit source

That's why, in the end, many merit sources are also good posters (not all, though).

[cryptohunter]

Hold on a bit for the discussion of the stats.

I just want to confirm and fill in the X's for the top 10, 20, 50, 100.

Then we can all just take a closer look make more informed comments.

@ qwk  - thanks for reply... let me just see those x's filled in then I will certainly be down for a discussion of we think those are showing us.

It will be of great interest to hear everyone input and for a sensible and adult discussion to take place.

@ suchmoon these are certainly important points to further analyse and discuss.

[LoyceV]

Is this the same as saying the top 50 merit holders send approx 25% of their total merits to the other top 50 merit holders.

If that is the case that is not great on a board of apparently 2m users?

I used random.org to generate 10 random numbers between 1 and 2 million:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1887762
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1557917
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1080411
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1197833
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=429335
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=967934
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1103723
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1378511
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1260633
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1739694
Now check their post history and see if anything is worth meriting. Repeat this until you're convinced 99% of the accounts doesn't deserve any Merit

[qwk]

Repeat this until you're convinced 99% of the accounts doesn't deserve any Merit

Why bother with such a complicated approach?
Check the first 100 posts on
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=recent;patrol
and you will see

[The Sceptical Chymist]

Well the first thing to point out is that this forum is not a decentralised project. It has a standard hierarchy of officials and members.

Indeed, and I think a lot of newcomers to crypto latch onto this "decentralized" word as some sort of holy grail to be achieved in every one of the world's problems/systems/structures, and it's just not feasible.  To give an example, the prison system in my state used to operate pharmacies at each prison and jail and did this for years...until they figured out that it is much more cost-effective to have all the medications get dispensed out of a centralized location.  That cut down on the staffing needed and improved communications.  Almost the same situation happened with long-term care pharmacy, i.e., nursing homes and other residential care facilities.  Sure, they all have Pyxis machines on premises, but all the scheduled meds come from pharmacies that resemble warehouses, with orders getting faxed in, technicians packacking meds up into blister packs, and pharmacists making IVs and checking the prescriptions before they go out the door.

Bitcoin is decentralized, and it's a unique concept for a currency.  Bitcointalk is not decentralized, and it's not a unique discussion forum. 

A lot of the top merit-givers happen to be older members, and many of them are also very good contributors and receive a lot of merits themselves.  That isn't surprising to me, but I get the feeling (well, actually he outright stated it) that OP thinks there's a "good 'ol boys" club of members passing merits between themselves for some undefined yet nefarious purpose.

OP, if you want to take a minute and look at the members I've given merit to, you'll definitely see a lot of recognized accounts, some of them merit sources, some of them on DT, but there are a lot of members below Hero rank that I've given merits to as well.  In my case, I actually try to avoid giving merits to Legendary accounts or Hero members who already have enough merits to rank up to Legendary and are just waiting to get enough activity.  Sometimes I can't help myself, sure, because there are a few Legendary members who make excellent posts that I feel compelled to merit, but overall I'm at least trying to target lower ranked members for merit.

Some users roll that way, i mean, if you become a friend of merit sources that resumes in more chance to get merits. But the merit sources are working hard to make a fair distribution of merits, or at least is that way in the Spanish section with our great merit source JetCash. This guy is making weekly merits giveaways to give the chance to all users to get merits

Jet Cash is exceptionally generous and has that type A personality that makes him want to be a doer, and he's doing a great job being a merit source and trying to help the forum in general. 

There may be members who only trade merits back and forth between their buddies, but I don't think that's the norm for merit sources.  The sad fact is that it is extremely difficult to find posts made by lower-ranking members (especially Newbie & Jr. Member ranks) that would fit the criteria of being "just good".  There are so many members of those two ranks nowadays that certain sections are flooded with posts by them, and they all tend to be generic, uninteresting, usually poorly-written, and sometimes even plagiarized.  I'm sure a lot of merit sources have a hard time sustaining the motivation to keep searching for worthy, lower-ranked members to give merits to.

I have Jet Cash's "Snow Eagles" site bookmarked, but so far there are only a few members on there, and the site needs some serious improvement before it becomes useful.  I'm speaking for myself only here, but I'm more than happy to reward a Newbie, Jr. Member, or any rank below Hero with merits IF the post deserves it and IF I can find the post.  I have fairly high standards, but not impossibly high.

[S_Therapist]

From the analysis "Top 30 Merit givers per board - Interactive Tool to spot possible Merit Sources", you can easily find out data of top 30 list of the most merited board, who gave most merit on which board. I think this one may assist you.

[DdmrDdmr]

<...>I just want to confirm and fill in the X's for the top 10, 20, 50, 100.<...>

This should be it for the day ...:

Top   10 ->  9,57% received merit from Top 10.
Top   20 -> 17,80% received merit from Top 20.
Top   50 -> 26,38% received merit from Top 50.
Top 100 -> 32,69% received merit from Top 100.

There are currently 24.234 forum members that have received >= 1 sMerit, so the 100% will be reached on the top 24.234.

Also, we should forget the 2 million user mith. In practice, there are many less even posting and therefore postulating for merit on the whole (see The real activity of bitcointalk.org + full stats). Only 137K have made a post over the last three months for example, as seen on the referenced thread.

[seoincorporation]

I see where is cryptohunter going.

Let's make this dynamic, from the next 3 users how many merits send between them:

LoyceV
DdmrDdmr
The Pharmacist

LoyceV > DdmrDdmr = ?
LoyceV > The Pharmacist = ?
DdmrDdmr > LoyceV = ?
DdmrDdmr > The Pharmacist = ?
The Pharmacist > LoyceV = ?
The Pharmacist > DdmrDdmr = ?

[TheBeardedBaby]

This should be not so surprising as if you dug a bit more into Meta you will find that part of the merit sources cannot find posts to give their merit to.
Which makes the whole situation even more complicated. Theymos wrote some time ago that it's better for the sources to unload all the source merit instead of let it "burn" with the time.  It's not really burning but if you don't use it , it doesn't replenish.
So instead of wasting the generated smerit just pass it so it generates more, but sure it's not easy to find someone new to give meirt to.

[DdmrDdmr]

<...>

As of last Friday (last Merit Dashboard update):

LoyceV > DdmrDdmr = 45
LoyceV > The Pharmacist = 13
DdmrDdmr > LoyceV = 15
DdmrDdmr > The Pharmacist = 9
The Pharmacist > LoyceV = 4
The Pharmacist > DdmrDdmr = 5.

But that doesn't really show nothing much in general in my opinion on a one to one basis. What's more, all three coincide posting in some sections, and all bring decent stuff (dare I say) to the table, so reciprocal merit overtime is natural and is not a deep issue as I stated here: Is it true that we only send sMerit to our “buddies” ?.

[Don Pedro Dinero]

I also understand OP worries.

However, I’m afraid the opposite can be happening up to a point. I haven’t been sending merits to Legendaries and I’ve seen many people commenting along the same lines, not only on that thread but on other threads on the forum.

I think what happens actually is that most forum members tend to lower their standards when they send merits to lower ranks. If among all the shitposters, they find a newbie who writes a good post, they tend to merit him. And I’m talking about a “just” good post, not a very good or exceptional one. They probably wouldn’t give merit for that same post if it was written by a Legendary. It is a way of stimulating lower ranks to be positively productive instead of shitposting.

For me, it is not surprising that the top posters send and receive merit from the other top posters. I wrote that post because I found that if I didn’t save merits for lower ranks, I was sending them to the high ranks and when I saw a newbie worth meriting I was out of merits.

P.S: I recently decided to send merits also to Legendaries because I get merit more easily now, so I have more merits to send, but I’m still biased towards lower ranks.

[mainconcept]

...
Let's make this dynamic, from the next 3 users how many merits send between them:
...

You can check this with the SQL Merit Explorer made by Piggy yourself if you want.

The queries I used (Bitcointalk/Cloudflare don't like SQL Scripts in posts): https://gist.github.com/mainconceptx/3d843db920308cf09669e3e8961d8cd7
Just copy/paste it.

Result:

Code:

FromUser	ToUser	Merit
The Pharmacist	LoyceV	4

FromUser	ToUser	Merit
LoyceV	The Pharmacist	14

FromUser	ToUser	Merit
DdmrDdmr	LoyceV	15

FromUser	ToUser	Merit
LoyceV	DdmrDdmr	45

FromUser	ToUser	Merit
The Pharmacist	DdmrDdmr	5

FromUser	ToUser	Merit
DdmrDdmr	The Pharmacist	9

[seoincorporation]

<...>

As of last Friday (last Merit Dashboard update):

LoyceV > DdmrDdmr = 45
LoyceV > The Pharmacist = 13
DdmrDdmr > LoyceV = 15
DdmrDdmr > The Pharmacist = 9
The Pharmacist > LoyceV = 4
The Pharmacist > DdmrDdmr = 5.

But that doesn't really show nothing much in general in my opinion on a one to one basis. What's more, all three coincide posting in some sections, and all bring decent stuff (dare I say) to the table, so reciprocal merit overtime is natural and is not a deep issue as I stated here: Is it true that we only send sMerit to our “buddies” ?.

This is the right information to drop the conspiracy theories... It only proves how the main merit senders don't send merits to their friends' circle. Thanks for the info DdmrDdmr  so, cryptohunter now you can be sure merits are used in the right way.

[OgNasty]

Merit is easily abused by those with multiple accounts. As such, there will be bad actors with artificially inflated scores. Anyone who watched the first couple of days of merit distributions witnessed that very obviously. That’s why you should take merit with a grain of salt. Some of the most disrespectful and useless members of this forum have been near the top of the merit list. However, it’s also a fun way to reward strangers for thoughtful posts, so it’s a worthy trade-off in my opinion.

[Jet Cash]

I have Jet Cash's "Snow Eagles" site bookmarked, but so far there are only a few members on there, and the site needs some serious improvement before it becomes useful.  I'm speaking for myself only here, but I'm more than happy to reward a Newbie, Jr. Member, or any rank below Hero with merits IF the post deserves it and IF I can find the post.  I have fairly high standards, but not impossibly high.

I'm really sorry that I haven't been working on that. I've had a lot of minor issues to sort out, and  I've been making a few changes to my lifestyle.  I hope that I can become a bit more focused in the near future. I've added a few more avatars to the avatar index, but that is probably a fairly minor feature. I'm also planning to delete my ignore list, and to have a page which lists people that I add to a new list in the future, and I'll include the offending post. I'll categorise these lists, as not everybody agrees with my ideas.

It's also time to give the Fit to Talk project a boost. It has become a bit of a social club, and there is even a Spanish thread  that contains no English. I've still got loads of sMerits for "foreign" posters who can talk about the economies in their countries. By foreign I mean countries other than the UK and the US.

[cryptohunter]

<...>I just want to confirm and fill in the X's for the top 10, 20, 50, 100.<...>

This should be it for the day ...:

Top   10 ->  9,57% received merit from Top 10.
Top   20 -> 17,80% received merit from Top 20.
Top   50 -> 26,38% received merit from Top 50.
Top 100 -> 32,69% received merit from Top 100.

There are currently 24.234 forum members that have received >= 1 sMerit, so the 100% will be reached on the top 24.234.

Also, we should forget the 2 million user mith. In practice, there are many less even posting and therefore postulating for merit on the whole (see The real activity of bitcointalk.org + full stats). Only 137K have made a post over the last three months for example, as seen on the referenced thread.

Thanks very much this is kind of the format I was really hoping for.

I am not that great at math at all so please keep with me for this...I just want to understand how this merit all works.

Top   10 ->  9,57% received merit from Top 10.
Top   20 -> 17,80% received merit from Top 20.
Top   50 -> 26,38% received merit from Top 50.
Top 100 -> 32,69% received merit from Top 100.

So for example does this show...

The top 10 merit holders got 9.57%  of their merits (since merit started) from other top 10 merit holders?

So let's call it 10% for ease of putting some numbers in..


So let's say the top 10 received together as a group 10k  merit since merit started

1k total from other current top 10 merit holders.  9k from those outside of the top 10 current highest.



that would not look entirely terrible although still quite concentrated considering the user number ( i accept it has been nowhere near 2million)


So here comes the part I want to know...

From just knowing that how do I know how much total merit the top 10 merit users gave out in total?

Would it from this example be possible for them to give out only 2k and give 50% to the top 10 only ?

Obviously that is a crazy hypothetical number (i hope) that I am using just to see if I understand how it works or what I can tell from the numbers provided kindly by DdmrDdmr and loyceV


I know I keep asking for more and more but it is very helpful for the entire community to look at and learn if like me they don't already know.

Who can show me the top merit scoring posts of all time here??

Let's say the top 100 top merit scoring posts of all time. So I can skip past those that have provided a tool or service or guide, and find some real general posts that make the majority of forum use. Not that tools/services guides are not very useful because some of course are and have required a lot of work.

Writing a guide to increase chances of getting a high merit score for posts is good. However seeing the top 100 examples of highest merit scoring posts of all time would be very helpful/interesting.

[S_Therapist]

Who can show me the top merit scoring posts of all time here??

Top merited topic of all time
This list counts merit on only OP.
Top-merited replies, all-time

Top merited topic of all time- Most merited topics (SUM of OP + posts) (Fixed!)

[cryptohunter]

Who can show me the top merit scoring posts of all time here??

Top merited topic of all time
This list counts merit on only OP.
Top-merited replies, all-time

Top merited topic of all time- Most merited topics (SUM of OP + posts) (Fixed!)

thank you for your help.

[Quickseller]

From what I can tell, merit is very frequently given for posts that the merit sender agrees with. This is the circle jerking the OP is referring to. This will lead to new users mirroring the opinions of those in power. This diminishes the free flow of ideas and makes it more difficult to dissent from popular opinions. Even in this very thread, multiple posts have merit that fairly little effort was put into said post, but that the merit sender likely agreed with what the post said.

I also suspect that people send merit to those who are believed to have a lot of merit to send in the hopes of receiving merit in return. This results in merit sources having abnormal amounts of merit.

But keep in mind: a large share of freely available merit comes from merit sources.
Merit sources are (if not by definition) people who usually also receive a decent amount of merit.
Why? Because that's how you become a merit source in the first place.
To become a merit source, you'll have to have a history of actually giving away merit.

Merit sources are people who have the capacity to send more merit than than they can spend with the sMerit they get from the merits they receive. They demonstrate this by pointing out posts that should have more merit than they have.

Also, merit sources should be sending 1/2 of the merit spent. This ignores the merit that can be spent from the airdrop. Everyone doesn’t spend all the sMerit they have so the percentage will be somewhat below 50%.

[bones261]

From what I can tell, merit is very frequently given for posts that the merit sender agrees with. This is the circle jerking the OP is referring to. This will lead to new users mirroring the opinions of those in power. This diminishes the free flow of ideas and makes it more difficult to dissent from popular opinions. Even in this very thread, multiple posts have merit that fairly little effort was put into said post, but that the merit sender likely agreed with what the post said.

I also suspect that people send merit to those who are believed to have a lot of merit to send in the hopes of receiving merit in return. This results in merit sources having abnormal amounts of merit.

     What the f**k are you talking about? I'm a merit source and I have only earned 156 merits, which is less than what you have earned. I hardly consider the amount of merit that I earned an "abnormal amount."  I only have 250 extra merit a month to give. I can't possibly hunt the whole forum and give merit to everyone who deserves it. I'm really getting sick and tired of people complaining on how we merit sources are doling out the merit. What on earth do you people want? We are trying to combat all of the shitty posting done by signature spammers and account farmers. Want to go back to the old way, where someone just has to post a couple of shitty posts a day to rank up? Furthermore, a person with very non-mainstream views, can rack up a bunch of merit. For example, Anunymint earned 127 merits in 40 days before he was nuked. If someone with unpopular views starts spouting off, they are going to attract fanboys. Especially if they know how to put together a good argument.
    

[stingers]

From what I can tell, merit is very frequently given for posts that the merit sender agrees with. This is the circle jerking the OP is referring to. This will lead to new users mirroring the opinions of those in power. This diminishes the free flow of ideas and makes it more difficult to dissent from popular opinions. Even in this very thread, multiple posts have merit that fairly little effort was put into said post, but that the merit sender likely agreed with what the post said.

I also suspect that people send merit to those who are believed to have a lot of merit to send in the hopes of receiving merit in return. This results in merit sources having abnormal amounts of merit.

But keep in mind: a large share of freely available merit comes from merit sources.
Merit sources are (if not by definition) people who usually also receive a decent amount of merit.
Why? Because that's how you become a merit source in the first place.
To become a merit source, you'll have to have a history of actually giving away merit.

Merit sources are people who have the capacity to send more merit than than they can spend with the sMerit they get from the merits they receive. They demonstrate this by pointing out posts that should have more merit than they have.

Also, merit sources should be sending 1/2 of the merit spent. This ignores the merit that can be spent from the airdrop. Everyone doesn’t spend all the sMerit they have so the percentage will be somewhat below 50%.

I truly support your opinion. In fact I have already made a thread related to it here

I would like getting your opinion there.

Sorry, for doing it buy sending a merits to you but your opinion was worth considering.

[Yeahpro]

As I see it, the merit system is the only way to acknowledge a post on the forum, and show you appreciate the post and are in agreement with its content and (or) suggestion.

As per theymos unofficial rules, meriting posts you agree with solely because you agree with it is wrong, but the rules also states that one worded replies like;

1. Such posts like "SELL SELL SELL", "I agree", "+1", "Support", "Watching", "Interesting", "LOL", "SCAM", "LEGIT", "FAKE", other one word posts, posts consisting mostly of swearing, quote pyramids,useless introduction threads, threads about a topic already recently discussed in several other threads.

...are not allowed, so members can not comment their support of the post/comment as that would count as spam. And can not reiterate what has already been said, that would count as spam also.

So there is no other way to show your agreement or approval of a post or comment, since the quality and acceptance of a post is weighed by the number of merits it gets.

Sure it is abused in some instances (there is no flawless system).
But I don't think any action can be taken; users can only be accused of merit abuse when discovered to be meriting their alt accounts or selling smerits. Except to take those members off the merit source list (if they were a part of it)

A like or dislike option would reduce the use of merits if it was introduced and counted for nothing except your agreement with the post.
But it would be abused if everyone could use it and would lose relevance.

[LoyceV]

So there is no other way to show your agreement or approval of a post or comment, since the quality and acceptance of a post is weighed by the number of merits it gets.

Many users agree with many posts, if they would all post just to say that, it will cause a tremendous amount of useless posts. That's why it's not allowed, and that's what makes Merit so much more than just a "Like".

Initially, theymos said to Merit high quality posts. Later, it was backed down a bit to "good" posts. My interpretation is that anyone who's not a spammer, shouldn't be restricted by the Merit system. So more or less anything that's worth reading deserves some Merit. I've merited your post, not because I agree, but because it's worth reading and I don't think you're the typical spam bot.
It's a very strong system to be able to Merit a post you totally disagree with, but which is still worth reading.

[Theb]

2. That high merit receivers/givers are circle jerking and backslapping each other and not seeking out lower rank members who are worthy of merit to enable them to legitimately move up ranks.

I believe that is what they called "Reciprocal Merit", it is when they send back sMerit/s to the one who have given them sMerits. This happens commonly and there is nothing wrong about is as long as the post is "meritable". Sometimes when a good conversation is happening and they have known each other in the forum they send back and forth the merits as a way of appreciating what they have said previously even on the past threads they have conversed with. These merits are not wasted as it is given to someone who is worthy of it. The wrong way to use reciprocal merits is when they use it as means of ranking up their own accounts and use it to produce more merits in order to sell, you can even see that the posts receiving the merits are really shitty to even be given one.

[Lauda]

2. That high merit receivers/givers are circle jerking and backslapping each other and not seeking out lower rank members who are worthy of merit to enable them to legitimately move up ranks.

They aren't, they shouldn't, and they can't be forced to do so. This only really poses a problem for people that are desperate to get an account (or multiple..) quickly ranked up.  I wonder what "legitimate" reason one would have for this.

[JetAid]

As I see it, the merit system is the only way to acknowledge a post on the forum, and show you appreciate the post and are in agreement with its content and (or) suggestion.

You can always reply to the post if you can add value to the comment. If you can't add value, then it is better to keep silent, as multiple posts that are simple agreements can kill the thread discussion.

[DdmrDdmr]

<…>The top 10 merit holders got 9.57%  of their merits (since merit started) from other top 10 merit holders?<…>

Yes, that is the correct interpretation.

From just knowing that how do I know how much total merit the top 10 merit users gave out in total?

I could retrieve the data, but instead of doing that it may me more flexible for you to use the Merit Dashboard, or whatever other tool/list you see fit (namely provided by @Piggy, @LoyceV and @Vod). The Merit Dashboard in interactive, and has multiple views of the Merit System, with charts, aggregates, lists and so on, filterable by different conditions (time periods, boards, nominal profiles, etc.).

For example, the top 10 Meriters or Merited can be seen on the "Rankings Tab".  You can click on them to go to their Bitcointalk profile, or copy their name and go to the "Personal Summary" tab, paste the name into the top right box and press enter. You will get a full summary on that profile (activity, posts, merit, received merit, sent merit, broken down by month, rank, board, etc.). In addition, you can filter the information to a certain period of time and/or forum board (section/subsection).

Would it from this example be possible for them to give out only 2k and give 50% to the top 10 only?

The maximum is 50 sMerits per person you merit per 30 days. Any highly abuse activity will very likely show up in one of the available tools, and be spotted and brought to the light by one of the forum members that use them.

[S_Therapist]

Just from my curiosity,
If user A sends X amount of sMerits to user B and receives the almost exact number, can we count that as abusing merit between buddy, provided that the amount is not lower? Also, user A receives 39% of his total merit from user B.
Sorry, it's quite off-topic for this thread. I don't want to create a topic for knowing this only.

[cryptohunter]

At first glance looking at this I would say that it is not quite as bad as I had initially suspected however it still is along the lines of what I thought it would be and this data could  actually not be clearly demonstrating the circle jerk/ back slapping within the top 100 or 200 users that is going on.

If we look at this

Top   10 ->  9,57% received merit from Top 10.
Top   20 -> 17,80% received merit from Top 20.
Top   50 -> 26,38% received merit from Top 50.
Top 100 -> 32,69% received merit from Top 100.

This is received  and i think looks a little better than what i had expected due to those being merited by those hoping to get some merits in return.


I expect by the time we expand this to the top 200 we would notice that 50% or even greater are received by other members of the top 200. This data to me does not rule out that much higher % for example 70 - 95 % of merit given out by the top 200 does not just remain within the top 200 .


Also worth noting is that meta absorbs such a high proportion of merit compared to the number of people actually posting here. I suspect  the alt board (where most new people post) and even the btc board that have 10x the number of posts actually has far more than 10x more people posting there. You can likely say 100x of times more people posting there. Then seeing the number of merits that meta absorbs is a lot.

Now there will be some who will say you can always interpret data how you prefer to. Since I don't know the % of merit given out by the top 100/top200 (which is still let us say realistically 0.01% of real posters taking out bots and scammers) which ONLY goes to other top merit 100 / 200 holders we can not really rule out a definite circle jerking back slapping pattern here.

Having said all of that it is not a big deal. Merit works well for stopping new bot accounts powering up and account farming and provides some way to show appreciation for views they share and other useful things. Therefore is working well but we have to be careful regarding what other conclusions we automatically draw merit scores.

[DdmrDdmr]

<…> I expect by the time we expand this to the top 200 we would notice that 50% or even greater are received by other members of the top 200. This data to me does not rule out that much higher % for example 70 - 95 % of merit given out by the top 200 does not just remain within the top 200<…>

I’ve continued scaling the Top X Merited for the following groups:
Top   200 ->  43,29% received merit from Top 200.
Top   500 ->  50,61% received merit from Top 500.
Top   1000 ->  56,62% received merit from Top 1000.
Top   5000 ->  69,44% received merit from Top 5000.

I wouldn’t go down further than top 5000. Below this level, people start to have few sMerits really to award (5 or less in general).

Also worth noting is that meta absorbs such a high proportion of merit compared to the number of people actually posting here. I suspect  the alt board (where most new people post) and even the btc board that have 10x the number of posts actually has far more than 10x more people posting there. You can likely say 100x of times more people posting there. Then seeing the number of merits that meta absorbs is a lot.

Sure, but you can’t really compare the content quality of the posts on Meta vs Altcoin boards really. In Bitcointalk – Posts per Day - evolution during past six months, section 4 (Merit per Post Ratio) I calculated the merit per post for a given board (section/subsection). Sure Meta is way above Altcoin boards, but no wonder really. Also note that Meta is not one of the easiest boards to get the first merit at all (see: Analysis – The Merit Path – Where we start off and the path we follow).

[actmyname]

Also worth noting is that meta absorbs such a high proportion of merit compared to the number of people actually posting here. I suspect  the alt board (where most new people post) and even the btc board that have 10x the number of posts actually has far more than 10x more people posting there. You can likely say 100x of times more people posting there. Then seeing the number of merits that meta absorbs is a lot.

10x the posts does not mean 10x the quality. I would rather try to find an exceptional topic in Meta bereft of spam than a decent topic in the Altcoin boards where there are not more than 3 spam posts on any given page.

From what I see, the more general a board is, the heavier spam it generates.

[cryptohunter]

<…> I expect by the time we expand this to the top 200 we would notice that 50% or even greater are received by other members of the top 200. This data to me does not rule out that much higher % for example 70 - 95 % of merit given out by the top 200 does not just remain within the top 200<…>

I’ve continued scaling the Top X Merited for the following groups:
Top   200 ->  43,29% received merit from Top 200.
Top   500 ->  50,61% received merit from Top 500.
Top   1000 ->  56,62% received merit from Top 1000.
Top   5000 ->  69,44% received merit from Top 5000.

I wouldn’t go down further than top 5000. Below this level, people start to have few sMerits really to award (5 or less in general).

Also worth noting is that meta absorbs such a high proportion of merit compared to the number of people actually posting here. I suspect  the alt board (where most new people post) and even the btc board that have 10x the number of posts actually has far more than 10x more people posting there. You can likely say 100x of times more people posting there. Then seeing the number of merits that meta absorbs is a lot.

Sure, but you can’t really compare the content quality of the posts on Meta vs Altcoin boards really. In Bitcointalk – Posts per Day - evolution during past six months, section 4 (Merit per Post Ratio) I calculated the merit per post for a given board (section/subsection). Sure Meta is way above Altcoin boards, but no wonder really. Also note that Meta is not one of the easiest boards to get the first merit at all (see: Analysis – The Merit Path – Where we start off and the path we follow).

Top   10 ->  9,57% received merit from Top 10.
Top   20 -> 17,80% received merit from Top 20.
Top   50 -> 26,38% received merit from Top 50.
Top 100 -> 32,69% received merit from Top 100.
Top   200 ->  43,29% received merit from Top 200.
Top   500 ->  50,61% received merit from Top 500.
Top   1000 ->  56,62% received merit from Top 1000.
Top   5000 ->  69,44% received merit from Top 5000.

thanks  for these... so a bit better than I expected at 43.29% not 50% or greater but regardless still a monster proportion.

So allowing for the fact 150k members posted recently the 0.00066% of the board are getting 32.69% of merit their from the same 0.00066% of the board. I know this is irrelevant and would mean nothing but I wonder what the probability of that taking place if merit was randomly attributed between just 150k accounts ...ah if only I was a math master or even just okay at math. Well since it is irrelevant I shouldn't give it much thought.

The stat we can't (or perhaps we can but I am missing it) see is what % of merit given by out each tier is kept inside each tier this would probably be even more interesting to know. I am I correct in saying the top 10 posters could give 100% of their merit to each other and their received % from inside the top 10 could still be tiny if the tiers below gave them a far greater proportion of their merit?

So for the sake of examining circle jerking and back slapping you would really need to know the given stat more than received would you not? as I say stats are not my thing but you seem far more math minded than myself. Is it not more important to know what % they send out of their tiers compared to the % they send within their tiers that what they receive in from other tier and their own tiers?  Am i missing something with this part due to poor math ability? or is that stat already something I should be able to calculate from the provided stats?

Comparing meta board to the alt board of course is a bit of a stretch I admit. The alt board discussion is the board hit the hardest by the ico promotional wave of scammers so to try and compare the post quality is of course not really possible so to compare the merit stats is not really going to prove anything other than you will not get merit on the alt discussion board even for a great post generally because of many factors but primarily because you are going to be much harder to find by those with most merit to give.

 This is sad because most noobs will be primarily interested in alts and will be motivated to join discussions there hence already reducing greatly their chance of any merit to practically nothing. I have noticed some alt sources mention they never visit alt discussion or for some reason

Anyway I agree there are lots of reasons why you should have 0.007% of a merit per post on alt compared to 0.28% chance of merit on meta. That though is a massive difference.

Let's though compare bitcoin discussion which is more moderated and has not been crushed like the alt discussion since it is not meant to have discussion of annoying new and mostly scammy icos. So should be more comparable so pretty much what I had thought 13x more chance of merit per post. Am I interpreting that correctly?

Merit is a good addition though and I think the alt discussion board is slowing up ...so account farmers are dying back a bit.

Interesting to view the received stats you posted though for sure. Thank you for posting those.


@actmyname

I agree with what you have said to a certain degree.

Although  it is nice to take a deeper look at how things are actually taking place so far with merit.

[DdmrDdmr]

So allowing for the fact 150k members posted recently the 0.00066% of the board are getting 32.69% of merit their from the same 0.00066% of the board. I know this is irrelevant and would mean nothing but I wonder what the probability of that taking place if merit was randomly attributed between just 150k accounts ...ah if only I was a math master or even just okay at math. Well since it is irrelevant I shouldn't give it much thought.

I think you forgot to turn the figure into percentage (100 /150 000) *100 -> 0,067% … Arguably the best posters will at some point merit some of the other best posters, since that is what merit is about: meriting decent content, and that content is likely generated by … surprise .. the best posters.

The fact for me is that, for example, one can browse through posts made on Meta and feel they are kind of engaging and often well versed and intelligent, with a steady readable conversational flow. On the other hand, there are board sections where you need to swim through a cesspit of nonsensical comments, that do not really constitute an elaborate discussion, but rather a pointless set of monologues waving a signature flag as the only reason behind.

The stat we can't (or perhaps we can but I am missing it) see is what % of merit given by out each tier is kept inside each tier this would probably be even more interesting to know. I am I correct in saying the top 10 posters could give 100% of their merit to each other and their received % from inside the top 10 could still be tiny if the tiers below gave them a far greater proportion of their merit?

Most of the top merit Receivers are also consolidated members of the Forum, often Legendaries, and also often Merit Sources themselves. From a Sender’s point of view, the numbers are pretty widespread, since Merit Sources (and in general forum members that have many merits to award) tend to send them out to a rather wide network of people.

Take for example the data shown on the following post: Analysis – Sender’s Merit Network – How does it evolve? . On section 4 of the referenced topic, we can see the top 30 Merit Senders (below the referenced table is a link to the full list for every single user at the time the post was created). Most, if not all, the names on the list are Top merit Receivers too, but go out of their way awarding merit to many unknown people on the forum.
@suchmoon at the time had awarded merit to 746 people, 174 of which received their first merit from @suchmoon. @paxmao has at the time sent sMerit to 628 people, 267 of which got their first merit from him.

I’d say that Sender inner tier stats are therefore likely to be smaller that Receivers inner tier stats, since as I stated the Merit Sources send sMerit to many people on the whole.
 

<…>This is sad because most noobs will be primarily interested in alts and will be motivated to join discussions there hence already reducing greatly their chance of any merit to practically nothing. I have noticed some alt sources mention they never visit alt discussion or for some reason.

The thing is though, trying to go through the Alt sections to find meritable posts requires first a certain interest on the topic (which many may not have), and then a strong will power to go through a section which, as I’ve stated before, is not normally building up conversation, but rather spam for the sake of campaign’s needs. Conceptually, there should be some good projects there, and so some good stuff could/should be found. Nevertheless, separating the wheat from the chaff will I figure deem a monumental task.

Even so, paradoxically, Ann Altcoins is the most merited section on aggregate (11,44% or 29.891 sMerits), and Altcoin Discussion has received 4,14% of total aggregate merit (10.830 merits). For whatever obscure reason, some have made a pretty penny there with no issue on aggregate. Of course, the number of posts is massive there, so the merit/post ratio is small.

Let's though compare bitcoin discussion which is more moderated and has not been crushed like the alt discussion since it is not meant to have discussion of annoying new and mostly scammy icos. So should be more comparable so pretty much what I had thought 13x more chance of merit per post. Am I interpreting that correctly?

The overall merit per post on the Bitcoin Discussion I calculated back in July 2018 (a bit has rained since then though) was 0,033/post. For Altcoin Discussion it was 0,009/post. So the ratio is 3,67 times better in the Bitcoin Discussion section compared to the Altcoin Discussion. Nevertheless, the chance factor is not a random lottery equal opportunity based, since each post’s chances depend on many factors, being content one of the core ones. I think there is much more spam in the Altcoin section than the Bitcoin section, which drags the ratio down for the Altcoin section.

[cryptohunter]

@DdmrDdmr

I think you forgot to turn the figure into percentage (100 /150 000) *100 -> 0,067% … Arguably the best posters will at some point merit some of the other best posters, since that is what merit is about: meriting decent content, and that content is likely generated by … surprise .. the best posters.

Ah yes thanks for correcting that.
The 0.067 would at some point merit the 0.067 but  already we know that 33% of their merits are received within that group and sent could be even larger (although as you say could be smaller)
Not sure about the best posters since that is a very hard thing to determine.

For sure what is the best post to one person is not to another. You could quite possibly have a conversation with some far lower merit holders and find it was much easier to achieve a non biased logical consensus based upon observable events. One could even reason a poster that has prevented many scams is the best poster in a different way.  I have recently seen some members falling back on quoting their merit score to claim their argument held more weight. This is certainly not something I depend too heavily on. I have seen some claim it proves more worth. Again it can not be used that way imho.

A person with very low merit and indeed rank could spot clues that a project was a scam and highlight this saving investors millions upon millions of dollars and even if their post was lacking in every aspect except to provide this insight it could be reasoned it was more valuable to this community and to crypto in general than all the highest merit posters combined (excluding satoshi and a couple of others of course). Perhaps it can be used though to state you would be statistically highly probable to provide what many others consider to be a post they can agree with and consider good/worthy of merit. Perhaps I being too negative but still merit is not a complete guide to locating the best posters. For sure though if we are being sensible it would be a short cut to locating posters generally worth hearing from.

The overall merit per post on the Bitcoin Discussion I calculated back in July 2018 (a bit has rained since then though) was 0,033/post. For Altcoin Discussion it was 0,009/post. So the ratio is 3,67 times better in the Bitcoin Discussion section compared to the Altcoin Discussion. Nevertheless, the chance factor is not a random lottery equal opportunity based, since each post’s chances depend on many factors, being content one of the core ones. I think there is much more spam in the Altcoin section than the Bitcoin section, which drags the ratio down for the Altcoin section.


Yes I agree with with everything else you said in your post as it seems to make logical sense.

I agree content should certainly be one of the cores ones. To me it should be the only one really.

However, having only been to meta a few times in many years here (perhaps 4x) before this recent period in the last few days. I would estimate 99% of my total posts or greater I have made on the alt boards... since visiting meta it is much easier to give out merits to people that are very helpful and such and without intending to your given merits are soon going to a small group people.  It reminds me of the alt board a few years back but sadly here you tend to find a far far higher proportion of nitpicking ass kissing overly pc people since it is the main place to come and report perceived wrong doing in the hope of some recognition (and of course reporting of real dangerous scammers too ). Of course reporting serious wrong doing, scamming in its various guises is very much needed but the overly pc and ass kissing to perceived authority figures is spoiling it and sucks away from genuine flow of sensible conversation.  It's a shame everyone seems to have retreated here from the alt boards and not to the serious discussion board so logical reasonable threads need not get contaminated by overly pc unreasonable ass kissers.

[eosDigger]

I see your point OP, getting 1 merit for newbie is a challenge and we must leave that way for the starters to earn recognition and acknowledgement from the merit source. However, once they earn merit it will just leave like that stuck up with the current rank. I have seen some Jr. member good posters in the forum and that are active in meta section that does always contribute their valuable ideas every time a newbie posted a thread to earn merit. Those users must be motivated to share more on their ideas by awarding merit probably or some sort of encouragement through replies.

Only 1 merit and 30 activity needed for a newbie to rank up to a jr. member rank. But, after ranking up to jr. member later on the problem in getting another 10 merit to rank up to member would be harder. I was just lucky that merit source has provided me enough merit to rank up to member. But then, I stuck in this rank. Anyway, being a member is already enough to be part of the forum but it is more good when I could wear that Avatar one day.

I think for good posts we do not need motivation. There should be a friendly crypto community, then the discussions will be interesting and then an atmosphere will emerge that will contribute to the mutual exchange of useful information.

[cryptohunter]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1SAi_b3umCcFJO2dMoLYjWCjNz1JhOLWrsRHhYQK-nb8/edit?usp=sharing

the above stats provided by r1s2g3

very interesting to see certain things there.

I would also like to see merits removed from those given by the top 300, 400, 500,1000 and merits that were given in the meta section removed just to see what the lists would look like.

It is already clear posting on the alt discussion board (main board for those arriving and discussing) is basically a waste of time if you want to receive merit.

That list does have a slight output error but just 1 position out on the left hand side list.