Why do people hate trumps wall..

[coins4commies]

...,

  I have no opposition of health screening but we aren't doing that anymore.  ....

Standard questions and issues on the immigration forms, dude.

Every applicant....

So you are wrong.

The current "legal" immigration process is not reasonable and keeps most of these people out.  There is no point in submitting an application when all that does it make it so you can't come.

To qualify for permanent resident status through the Diversity Visa Lottery Program, known commonly as the green card lottery, you must be immigrating from a country with a low rate of immigration to the US. If less than 50,000 people from your home country have immigrated to the US in the past 5 years, then you may be eligible to submit an application.

ok so you have to win a lottery to get in.  The problem is that the quotas have decreased continuously and countries that have serious issues like drought are going to have more people applying than what the quota is. The application process is also expensive while the people are coming because they are poor . I wouldn't recommend poor people spending money they don't have on an application for a lottery. So then we look at the asylum route...

The FY2018 allocation for Latin America and the Caribbean is 1,500. FY2017 admissions totaled
1,688. FY2018 admissions from this region are expected to include Cubans as well as minors
from El Salvador, Guatemala, and Honduras gaining admission under the Central American
Minors (CAM) refugee program (see “Refugee Processing Priorities”).

Well the ceiling has been lowered to 1500 people from ALL OF LATIN AMERICA when there may be millions who want to come.  Really some kind of joke.  This is how they make legal immigration impossible.  Telling people to stay home and apply is essentially telling them to never come. 

This leaves the only reasonable option to enter the US and plead your case in court when you get caught on an overstay. 

Now be honest. You are either for unimpeded illegal entry, which MEANS no health screening, or you are for legal immigration, which means health screening. And we know you are for unimpeded illegal immigration, so stop the lying ("saying things that are false"/"being misinformed" blah-blah-blah) about being for health screening.

To be clear, our current system encourages illegal immigration as the only real option.  If you support the status quo, then you are for illegal immigration.   

I am for a reasonable reform to the current system which is really just a deterrent to immigration.  I'm in favor of the ellis island way.  I think we should have large immigration centers with a lot of staff and facilities setup all along the border to receive these people, conduct health screenings, get their information, and send them on their way. Eliminate the quotas for countries in crisis.

When you have a problem, you have to try to solve it by addressing the root causes and we have an illegal immigration problem not because these are bad people, but because they are desperate, have to come here, and don't have a reasonable legal pathway.  I am certain they would take the legal path if they had confidence it was fair and would allow them in.

....
We are at the bridge, THIS is us getting to it.  Honduras has suffered a historic drought at the same time of this instability.  Same with Syria and the horn of Africa.  

No, it's not. Again, you are wrong.

You just can't slap blame on climate change for every stupid political agenda item you are told to believe in over and over.

 
The idea is that the effects of el nino are exacerbated by climate change, and even if this event had nothing to do with climate change, it shows us how dramatic shifts in climate can disrupt agriculture and turn the people who rely on it into migrants.  It would be even more alarming if we can't deal with a simple el nino event with major climate crises on the way.    Since we refused to prevent climate change, we need to start shifting into response mode and think about how we will deal with the hundreds of millions misplaced by rising sea levels and food shortages.  Coral reef ecosystems are also dying with ocean acidification. 

If the areas where food can be produced move or shift, there HAS to be a way for the people who rely on that food to move as well.

[1714229955]

1714229955

[Spendulus]

....
The idea is that the effects of el nino are exacerbated by climate change....

More lying. It just happens you cannot fool me with this talk because I know a bit about El Nino and those weather patterns. Deal with it; it is a normal weather pattern and a normal drought. You can't just lie your way around the issue. Please stop making things up.

...,

  I have no opposition of health screening but we aren't doing that anymore.  ....

Standard questions and issues on the immigration forms, dude.
Every applicant....
So you are wrong.

The current "legal" immigration process is not reasonable and keeps most of these people out.  There is no point in submitting an application when all that does it make it so you can't come.
....

I know a hundred people who came through the legal immigration, and a dozen in my immediate family. So you are lying/making things up yet again.

....Coral reef ecosystems are also dying with ocean acidification.  ...

Or are the coral reefs changing and not dying? Is that another subject you are wrong on? Regardless, I'm happy to let anyone living under the water on a coral reef into the USA.

....
The current "legal" immigration process is not reasonable and keeps most of these people out.  There is no point in submitting an application when all that does it make it so you can't come.....The FY2018 allocation for Latin America and the Caribbean is 1,500. FY2017 admissions totaled 1,688. ...

More lying/mistaken shit. Venezuela ALONE was 61,000.

Just check Wikipedia.

According to the 2016 Yearbook of Immigration Statistics, the United States admitted 1.18 million legal immigrants in 2016.[5] Of these, 20% were family-sponsored, 47% were the immediate relatives of U.S. citizens, 12% were employment-based preferences, 4% were part of the Diversity Immigrant Visa program, and 13% were refugees and/or asylum seekers.[5]

[Zeth]

I expect the US to be part of the new "Axis" with the world revolving around nationalism...

[coins4commies]

More lying. It just happens you cannot fool me with this talk because I know a bit about El Nino and those weather patterns. Deal with it; it is a normal weather pattern and a normal drought. You can't just lie your way around the issue. Please stop making things up.

I have no reason to make stuff up.  You can know about normal el nino and it can be exacerbated by climate change. Both can be true. Take a look at this fact sheet that summarizes climate change impacts for honduras

• Increased frequency and intensity of El Niño/La
Niña cycles.

That is listed under changes they have seen since 1960
https://www.climatelinks.org/sites/default/files/asset/document/2017_USAID%20ATLAS_Climate%20Change%20Risk%20Profile_Honduras.pdf

I know a hundred people who came through the legal immigration, and a dozen in my immediate family. So you are lying/making things up yet again.

This doesn't go against my point that there are still large numbers of people with no practical path of immigration.  There is a difference bettween that and "no one can immigrate".  

Or are the coral reefs changing and not dying? Is that another subject you are wrong on? Regardless, I'm happy to let anyone living under the water on a coral reef into the USA.

Good because hundreds of millions of people currently rely on the life underwater on coral reefs.  

....
The current "legal" immigration process is not reasonable and keeps most of these people out.  There is no point in submitting an application when all that does it make it so you can't come.....The FY2018 allocation for Latin America and the Caribbean is 1,500. FY2017 admissions totaled 1,688. ...

More lying/mistaken shit. Venezuela ALONE was 61,000.

Just check Wikipedia.

According to the 2016 Yearbook of Immigration Statistics, the United States admitted 1.18 million legal immigrants in 2016.[5] Of these, 20% were family-sponsored, 47% were the immediate relatives of U.S. citizens, 12% were employment-based preferences, 4% were part of the Diversity Immigrant Visa program, and 13% were refugees and/or asylum seekers.[5]

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RL31269.pdf
Ok so notice my quote came from FY2018 and FY2017 and your stats came from 2016, before Trump was president.  No one is saying we don't have any immigration.  Its just not an easy process especially if you are poor and under duress.  Anyone who can afford the time and resources to go through our legal immigration process is not really that desperate after all.  The caravaners are DESPERATE.

Trump's agenda is to shift our immigration policy to be "merit based" which means 12% employment based would be fine but the 4% of immigrants we are talking about would be shut out.

13% were refugees in 2016- The problem is most of the caravaners don't count as refugees by the  definition that the US uses, so if they apply without entering first, they will be declined because they are trying to escape violence that is not being directed at them because of race, nationality or political opinion.  

4% were diversity immigrant visa or "lottery" winners-  We take around 11,000 from Honduras.  Out of millions who want to come.

So what are desperate people from Honduras with no family in the US and no special skills supposed to do? Take the chance that they will win the lottery? Or enter the US and argue their refugee status in court after "catch and release"

[Dawson]

Once Trump said:

I will build a great, great wall on our southern border. And I will have Mexico pay for that wall.

He didn't know, that Great Wall is already build in China over a thousand years ago?

[Spendulus]

... ...
So what are desperate people from Honduras with no family in the US and no special skills supposed to do? Take the chance that they will win the lottery? Or enter the US and argue their refugee status in court after "catch and release"

Are you just trying to make idiotic statements?

Look at the diaspora of people fleeing Venezuela, a communist paradise.

They are going all over.

The US is not the only country.

[JealousCup]

People say Trumps wall is wrong   we even have the EU saying we don't build walls and Trump is wrong for wanting to do this WHY?..

Now before you answer  i would like you to consider what you are saying..

Now we in the UK want to leave the EU and because we VOTED in a democratic vote to leave the EU want to build a wall a boarder Funny though considering they hate trump building a wall..

And this is the HYPOCRITES  in the EU we deal with..And this is another reason why i want out..

They hate Trumps wall because well the USA is it's own country so have every right to a boarder BUT the EU want it's boarders to protect their lot ..

So why do they want a boarder through Ireland ..I thought they hate walls   Oh only if it doesn't upset their money pies..

BUT USA   you are bad for wanting a boarder just like they want in IRELAND..

The UK wanted all the benefits of staying in the EU without sharing the burden with the member countries, so the reaction of the EU is quite understandable. But I don't get why people want to nuild walls in places which were created free of access. After all, if a disaster was to occur on a global scale, especially in developed countries, they will retract their arguments about any wall because their survival would be in jeopardy. Except, of course, if they finally find a way to achieve transhumanism.

[Spendulus]

More lying. It just happens you cannot fool me with this talk because I know a bit about El Nino and those weather patterns. Deal with it; it is a normal weather pattern and a normal drought. You can't just lie your way around the issue. Please stop making things up.

I have no reason to make stuff up.  You can know about normal el nino and it can be exacerbated by climate change. Both can be true. Take a look at this fact sheet that summarizes climate change impacts for honduras

• Increased frequency and intensity of El Niño/La
Niña cycles.

That is listed under changes they have seen since 1960
https://www.climatelinks.org/sites/default/files/asset/document/2017_USAID%20ATLAS_Climate%20Change%20Risk%20Profile_Honduras.pdf

This is not a document that says what you claim. Not at all.

If you actually want to claim climate change then substantiate it. Show a statistically significant variation from the long term norm, separated from any regional weather patterns, and from 60-80 year ocean cyclic variations. Your link does not do that, in fact it does not prove any claim. It only makes an assertion, which you repeated blindly.

Let's go to the opinion of Dr. Gavin Schmidt, one of the most rabid warmer types around. Here is what he says about El Nino assuming more intense "climate change".

....climate models differ in their assessment of future El Niño events. Some suggest the ENSO cycle will become more intense, others say it will weaken, and some find there will be little change. According to Schmidt, “There is a very large variation in ENSO statistics (frequency/magnitude) over time, and so detecting a shift due to climate change is very challenging. Models as a whole are all over the shop, and so it doesn’t fill one with great confidence.”


Yet more lying/making things up.

....
There is no point in submitting an application when all that does it make it so you can't come.....The FY2018 allocation for Latin America and the Caribbean is 1,500. FY2017 admissions totaled 1,688. ...
.....
Ok so notice my quote came from FY2018 and FY2017 and your stats came from 2016, before Trump was president....

Let's see what the Washington Post has to say about your claims.

Last year, 27,629 Venezuelans petitioned U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services for asylum, an 88 percent increase from 2016 and up from 2,181 in 2014. So far this year, the number of Venezuelans who have applied — nearly all of them in Miami — is almost three times as great as any other nationality, according to the latest USCIS asylum data.

Unlike the Central Americans who wade illegally across the Rio Grande and turn themselves in to U.S. border guards, the Venezuelans typically land at the Miami airport with tourist and business visas.

Wait, that's just Venezuelans....and there's a lot more to Central America than that....

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/even-as-trump-tightens-asylum-rules-thousands-of-venezuelans-find-a-warm-welcome-in-miami/2018/05/15/5e747fec-52cf-11e8-a551-5b648abe29ef_story.html?utm_term=.d81fe6e8e71c

Maybe you were making assertions that sounded like they were about all the immigration from Honduras, while citing numbers for the one program that only represents 4% of it?

Is there ANYTHING TRUE IN ANYTHING YOU SAY?

[coins4commies]

This is not a document that says what you claim. Not at all.

If you actually want to claim climate change then substantiate it. Show a statistically significant variation from the long term norm, separated from any regional weather patterns, and from 60-80 year ocean cyclic variations. Your link does not do that, in fact it does not prove any claim. It only makes an assertion, which you repeated blindly.

Let's go to the opinion of Dr. Gavin Schmidt, one of the most rabid warmer types around. Here is what he says about El Nino assuming more intense "climate change".

....climate models differ in their assessment of future El Niño events. Some suggest the ENSO cycle will become more intense, others say it will weaken, and some find there will be little change. According to Schmidt, “There is a very large variation in ENSO statistics (frequency/magnitude) over time, and so detecting a shift due to climate change is very challenging. Models as a whole are all over the shop, and so it doesn’t fill one with great confidence.”


Yet more lying/making things up.

Finding a source that disagrees with mine (and the consensus) doesn't mean I "made stuff up".  This actually sheds some light on why so many deniers think scientists are lying. Science, especially climate science, doesn't operate by "proving" things.  Thats the reason why it has so much utility.  Science is about forming theories based on what the body of evidence points towards. 

You have it backwards with what you are telling me to do.  To come up with a claim and then go cherrypicking for data that can "prove" that claim.  Thats pseudoscience.

You are also getting too caught in the weeds.   Regardless of whether or not this is caused by climate change, these people are leaving, climate was a factor, and climate science suggests there will be many more situations like this in the near future due to climate change. 

Let's see what the Washington Post has to say about your claims.

Last year, 27,629 Venezuelans petitioned U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services for asylum, an 88 percent increase from 2016 and up from 2,181 in 2014. So far this year, the number of Venezuelans who have applied — nearly all of them in Miami — is almost three times as great as any other nationality, according to the latest USCIS asylum data.

Unlike the Central Americans who wade illegally across the Rio Grande and turn themselves in to U.S. border guards, the Venezuelans typically land at the Miami airport with tourist and business visas.

Wait, that's just Venezuelans....and there's a lot more to Central America than that....

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/even-as-trump-tightens-asylum-rules-thousands-of-venezuelans-find-a-warm-welcome-in-miami/2018/05/15/5e747fec-52cf-11e8-a551-5b648abe29ef_story.html?utm_term=.d81fe6e8e71c

Maybe you were making assertions that sounded like they were about all the immigration from Honduras, while citing numbers for the one program that only represents 4% of it?

Is there ANYTHING TRUE IN ANYTHING YOU SAY?

You are getting off-topic by bringing venezuela into this.  Its a different situation that isn't completely relevant to this thread. 
1. Venezuela has a lot more wealthy, educated people who can get jobs in the us
2. Venezuelans are being accepted as political assylum seekers because of socialism in venezuela
3. Venezuelans can afford to get tourist visas and fly to miami

If it was that easy, do you really think the Hondurans would prefer to walk thousands of miles just to break the law?  Why do you think they are going through so much trouble?

The 4% number is the only one important because that is the only program Hondurans in the caravans have access to from Honduras.   They don't have the education or special skills to get a job in the US ahead of time.

[Spendulus]

This is not a document that says what you claim. Not at all.

If you actually want to claim climate change then substantiate it. Show a statistically significant variation from the long term norm, separated from any regional weather patterns, and from 60-80 year ocean cyclic variations. Your link does not do that, in fact it does not prove any claim. It only makes an assertion, which you repeated blindly.

Let's go to the opinion of Dr. Gavin Schmidt, one of the most rabid warmer types around. Here is what he says about El Nino assuming more intense "climate change".

....climate models differ in their assessment of future El Niño events. Some suggest the ENSO cycle will become more intense, others say it will weaken, and some find there will be little change. According to Schmidt, “There is a very large variation in ENSO statistics (frequency/magnitude) over time, and so detecting a shift due to climate change is very challenging. Models as a whole are all over the shop, and so it doesn’t fill one with great confidence.”


Yet more lying/making things up.

Finding a source that disagrees with mine (and the consensus) doesn't mean I "made stuff up".  

....

Yes, actually you did make stuff up. Because I'm using the consensus to refute you. You misrepresented "the consensus."

I quoted directly Gavin Schmidt, he's right at the core of the few people that write up and direct what the "consensus" believes. Here's another direct comment from Schmidt.

...Gavin Schmidt, director of the NASA Goddard Institute for Space Studies, estimated that El Niño accounted for 0.07˚C of the above average warming that occurred in 2015...

You claimed that climate change made the El Nino stronger. No, it didn't. And the El Nino contributed only seven hundredths of one degree to the weather pattern.

You don't even understand the subject. You have it exactly backwards.... You don't even know what the consensus of scientific opinion is on a subject, but you are quick to claim it's what supports your argument.

That's what we call making things up.

....
.....

Maybe you were making assertions that sounded like they were about all the immigration from Honduras, while citing numbers for the one program that only represents 4% of it?

Is there ANYTHING TRUE IN ANYTHING YOU SAY?

....
The 4% number is the only one important because that is the only program Hondurans in the caravans have access to from Honduras.   They don't have the education or special skills to get a job in the US ahead of time.
[/quote]

You are once more misrepresenting the actual facts very substantially.

Many, many other Hondurans did emigrate as family members of US citizens and through the other mechanisms. You misrepresented the facts by leaving that out.

Some did not qualify or were too lazy to try. They noticed that Soros et.al. was organizing a giant publicity stunt to crash the US border and decided to get in on it. The newspaper adds for the Caravan said they'd get free food and cash. So they headed north.

It is certain we don't want them. We definitely don't want the 500 criminals in that group. But you do. You've kept quiet about those criminals, haven't you?

[HayaH]

I'm baffled by those who may support forward thinking initiatives such as Bitcoin and yet cheer Trump and his wall...

So I need a passport to go to Mexico but Mexicans don't need a passport to come to the US?

It's not a passport policy I'm questioning, but rather why those people who would support a forward thinking, global, free, decentralized project like Bitcoin would ever yell America First or support Trump's wall. It's just completely against everything crypto currency stands for from where I'm standing; hence it baffled me a tad bit. That's all .

[Spendulus]

I'm baffled by those who may support forward thinking initiatives such as Bitcoin and yet cheer Trump and his wall...

So I need a passport to go to Mexico but Mexicans don't need a passport to come to the US?

It's not a passport policy I'm questioning, but rather why those people who would support a forward thinking, global, free, decentralized project like Bitcoin would ever yell America First or support Trump's wall. It's just completely against everything crypto currency stands for from where I'm standing; hence it baffled me a tad bit. That's all .

Good question.

You see, Bitcoin isn't for total free trade and movement. It's a very strict rule set, for example, protocols...

Bitcoin does not allow double spending, eg, stealing. Border walls prevent criminals, hence prevent, stealing.

The blockchain preserves the unique identity of transactions, and their history. The border wall forces people to show their unique identity and their history, including what they may want to conceal, such as criminal history, or communicable diseases. A person might be refused entry at the border, just as miners might refuse an illegitimate transaction.

Except for the rule set being applied by a government instead of peer to peer, the border wall implements a similar set of restrictions that allows freedom of movement, instead of restricting it.

Side note, I would much prefer a decentralized identity verification process through blockchain than national ID.

[coins4commies]

Yes, actually you did make stuff up. Because I'm using the consensus to refute you. You misrepresented "the consensus."

I quoted directly Gavin Schmidt, he's right at the core of the few people that write up and direct what the "consensus" believes. Here's another direct comment from Schmidt.

...Gavin Schmidt, director of the NASA Goddard Institute for Space Studies, estimated that El Niño accounted for 0.07˚C of the above average warming that occurred in 2015...

You claimed that climate change made the El Nino stronger. No, it didn't. And the El Nino contributed only seven hundredths of one degree to the weather pattern.

You don't even understand the subject. You have it exactly backwards.... You don't even know what the consensus of scientific opinion is on a subject, but you are quick to claim it's what supports your argument.

That's what we call making things up.

So this is something entirely different than what I am talking about.  Bolded quote talks about how much of the global average increase in temperature El nino was responsible for.  It doesn't say anything about the strength of el nino.  It definitely doesn't suggest that climate change wouldn't make el nino stronger.  The quote isn't even about that.

The idea is not that warming affects el nino.  The idea is that warming melts ice, changes ocean temperatures and sets off a series of events that changes climate around the world.  Global climate change.  Not everywhere gets warmer, many places actually get cooler.

The idea is that global climate change leads to an increase in extreme el nino events.  That could mean stronger, weaker, longer, or shorter.  There is consensus that it WILL affect ENSO but the reason there isn't a consensus on HOW it will affect it is because ENSO is complex and affected by so many variables.  This is generally the problem with modeling climate change in general.  I'm an atmospheric scientist and only wanted to keep this out of the weeds for your sake.
https://www.climate.gov/news-features/blogs/enso/enso-climate-change-headache
Really good article with a great analogy.

You missed my main point while in the weeds...

You are also getting too caught in the weeds.   Regardless of whether or not this is caused by climate change, these people are leaving, climate was a factor, and climate science suggests there will be many more situations like this in the near future due to climate change.  

This is really just a sample of what is yet to come.  Its not easy to identify nor is it so important to pinpoint if any single event is due to climate change.  Its more important to think about these types of events as the types of events we will see more often in a world of climate change.  

....
.....

Maybe you were making assertions that sounded like they were about all the immigration from Honduras, while citing numbers for the one program that only represents 4% of it?

Is there ANYTHING TRUE IN ANYTHING YOU SAY?

....
The 4% number is the only one important because that is the only program Hondurans in the caravans have access to from Honduras.   They don't have the education or special skills to get a job in the US ahead of time.

You are once more misrepresenting the actual facts very substantially.

Many, many other Hondurans did emigrate as family members of US citizens and through the other mechanisms. You misrepresented the facts by leaving that out.

Some did not qualify or were too lazy to try. They noticed that Soros et.al. was organizing a giant publicity stunt to crash the US border and decided to get in on it. The newspaper adds for the Caravan said they'd get free food and cash. So they headed north.

It is certain we don't want them. We definitely don't want the 500 criminals in that group. But you do. You've kept quiet about those criminals, haven't you?
[/quote]
I left those out because they aren't relevant to people who don't have sponsors in the US; family or work.   I don't believe in conspiracy theories and don't usually entertain them, but if Soros did that to press the issue, bring attention and put pressure on the government to reform the system, then great.  That should be a great thing for everyone who doesn't want illegal immigration by exposing a system that encourages it.   People will always take the path of least resistance. Why not make that the legal path?

Why should risking your freedom, safety, health, everything crossing illegally be the easier option?

[Spendulus]

....
I left those out because they aren't relevant to people who don't have sponsors in the US; family or work. ...

People will always take the path of least resistance. Why not make that the legal path?

Why should risking your freedom, safety, health, everything crossing illegally be the easier option?

So you left out ALL the other everyday methods by which Hondurans do get into the USA legally. You left out ALL the problems with this group, like the fact there are 500 criminals in the group. You left out the problem with group members having possible communicable diseases. You ignored completely other countries that might take them. Then you tried to argue they were "climate change refugees," and that was a complete laugh. Then you make an unverified assumption that they ALL had no other recourse for US immigration except illegal entry.

So after mis stating the facts repeatedly, and getting caught repeatedly, then making a plea for sympathy for the down trodden, your argument now is simply that we should have an open border policy, kind of,

"Just Because."

[coins4commies]

Yes I left out all of the examples of people who had special reasons why they might be able to migrate to the US legally and focused on the desperate poor people that the caravans we are discussing consist of.  Yes I left out Venezuelans, doctors, and family members of Americans because those are not the majority of people rushing across our southern border.  Those are not the majority of the people who would be affected by a wall.  I want everyone to have a pathway to migrate to the US.  If that is what you are calling open borders then fine, I want open borders because that is what our country was built on.  Its such a stretch so suggest anyone is against testing for diseases or catching criminals. 

If someone commits a crime, they should be prosecuted and every person could be screened for disease if they didn't have to risk their freedom by doing so.

[Spendulus]

Yes I left out all of the examples of people who had special reasons why they might be able to migrate to the US legally and focused on the desperate poor people that the caravans we are discussing consist of.  Yes I left out Venezuelans, doctors, and family members of Americans because those are not the majority of people rushing across our southern border.  Those are not the majority of the people who would be affected by a wall.  I want everyone to have a pathway to migrate to the US.  If that is what you are calling open borders then fine, I want open borders because that is what our country was built on.  Its such a stretch so suggest anyone is against testing for diseases or catching criminals. 

If someone commits a crime, they should be prosecuted and every person could be screened for disease if they didn't have to risk their freedom by doing so.

So you made up the entire set of false facts to assert your agenda driven wishes.

But you will add a couple exclusions now?

So what would you do about the 500 criminals in the caravan?

[coins4commies]

The same thing we do when "criminals" show up in a visa application or at the airport.  We already have systems in place for catching criminals.  That is part of the conversation solely to invoke fear in the hearts of people who are otherwise morally active.

[Spendulus]

The same thing we do when "criminals" show up in a visa application or at the airport.  We already have systems in place for catching criminals.  That is part of the conversation solely to invoke fear in the hearts of people who are otherwise morally active.

No it is not. In fact that's an incredibly insensitive thing to say for one who claims to be so sensitive to others.

You blithely say things like that only perhaps because you don't personally know the violence along the board. You are remote from people being raped and murdered by criminals that cross back and forth freely across the US border with Mexico.

[coins4commies]

The same thing we do when "criminals" show up in a visa application or at the airport.  We already have systems in place for catching criminals.  That is part of the conversation solely to invoke fear in the hearts of people who are otherwise morally active.

No it is not. In fact that's an incredibly insensitive thing to say for one who claims to be so sensitive to others.

You blithely say things like that only perhaps because you don't personally know the violence along the board. You are remote from people being raped and murdered by criminals that cross back and forth freely across the US border with Mexico.

My entire stance is based on the violence.  That is the same type of violence these people are trying to escape.  Its the same argument as saying refugees were full of embedded ISIS. 

[Spendulus]

The same thing we do when "criminals" show up in a visa application or at the airport.  We already have systems in place for catching criminals.  That is part of the conversation solely to invoke fear in the hearts of people who are otherwise morally active.

No it is not. In fact that's an incredibly insensitive thing to say for one who claims to be so sensitive to others.

You blithely say things like that only perhaps because you don't personally know the violence along the board. You are remote from people being raped and murdered by criminals that cross back and forth freely across the US border with Mexico.

My entire stance is based on the violence.  That is the same type of violence these people are trying to escape.  Its the same argument as saying refugees were full of embedded ISIS. 

No it is not an argument intended to invoke fear in people.

That's a total bullshit pitch and you know it.

Sure we've got systems to catch criminals, but that's after they murder or rape or steal, not before. The whole point is to not let them in so those things don't happen.