Are Bitcoin Cash overlords selling their BTC stashes?

[deisik]

If so, good fucking riddance to them. A plague o' both your houses!

my guess is that no they are not because these people believe in bitcoin more than anybody else. that is why they attempted to take over bitcoin and failed but created BCH instead. you can't expect such people to sell the most valuable possession they have...

Unless their inflated egos step in



My point is that, given the hash war, folks like CSW and his likes on the other side have to finance this war somehow. Ultimately, it all comes down to their financial muscle. In the end, provided they stick to their guns, they will be burning their BTC stashes right after selling the opposing chain coins. In fact, we already see something like that by Jihad moving HP from mining BTC to mining BCH to support his chain against Craig's, and as mining regular Bitcoin is twice as profitable as mining Bitcoin Cash right now, he is already effectively losing bitcoins by not mining them. While mining Bitcoin Cash itself is outright unprofitable at the moment, even for Jihad

And we can hope they destroy each other in the process

[1714753692]

1714753692

[1714753692]

1714753692

[talkbitcoin]

there is no way for any of us to know because wise people don't share their financial matters with others. and anybody who advertises whet they did is surely lying.

my guess is that no they are not because these people believe in bitcoin more than anybody else. that is why they attempted to take over bitcoin and failed but created BCH instead. you can't expect such people to sell the most valuable possession they have...

[leea-1334]

What a photo to see,,, we have one famous white guy listened to by other balding white guys in corporate suits, showing his middle finger, and Satoshi's name enshrined in a corner,,, it is like this is how it is with the cryptocurrency world. Powerful people who want to keep their power and treat this new technology as their private battleground.

Sickening to see that they do not see they are everything like the old system Bitcoin wanted to replace.

[Pursuer]

overlords? seriously

and how do you explain the lack of price drop if they are really overlords and are selling their "stashes"? price entered $5k level on 14th (4 days ago) and has stayed there. that was basically the bulk of the drop which was panic sellers and whales having fun with the market.

if your theory of the "overlords" were true then price should have gone down at least 10-15% per day and be at $3k already.

[deisik]

overlords? seriously

and how do you explain the lack of price drop if they are really overlords and are selling their "stashes"? price entered $5k level on 14th (4 days ago) and has stayed there. that was basically the bulk of the drop which was panic sellers and whales having fun with the market.

if your theory of the "overlords" were true then price should have gone down at least 10-15% per day and be at $3k already.

I said Bitcoin Cash overlords

Not that they matter a lot in Bitcoin terms, though they obviously still do. Anyway, I should have said "will be selling", and we have yet to see such prices as one possible scenario. Yeah, I know it sounds painful already and feels creepy a little but this is kinda inevitable if no side gives in and calls it a day. Craig has already made it clear he is in for a long game (of thrones), and let's hope he doesn't change his mind too soon

[Pursuer]

people like CSW and his likes on the other side have to finance this war somehow.
...
Anyway, I should have said "will be selling",

when you create a useless new altcoin, you want to pump it in early days of its existence specially when there is a war going on that you want to survive. so if your theory was right and they were to sell "bitcoin" to finance their war, they should have done it already that is why is said the drop in your scenario should have happened but has not.
not to mention that this war is between BCash and BCashSV not between them and bitcoin. CSW tried to pull bitcoin in the drama and could succeed a little but not much. hence the $5.5k current price instead of a lower one.

[barota]

Certainly
I think the reason fall of prices is sell off bch As long as it is on its way to the fork

[deisik]

people like CSW and his likes on the other side have to finance this war somehow.
...
Anyway, I should have said "will be selling",

when you create a useless new altcoin, you want to pump it in early days of its existence specially when there is a war going on that you want to survive

I'm afraid you can't have it both ways

It is either the survival part or the pump part. They are already financing the war via Bitcoin (though indirectly) by drawing in mining resources taken from Bitcoin and renting HP from independent miners. That you can't deny. And it is a short path to selling bitcoins directly once they run out of money. Basically, it is just a matter of time as it happens in any prolonged war, which impoverishes both sides and makes the parties take desperate steps

[1Referee]

People overcredit these bastards.

They aren't selling their BTC to USD because they don't even need to. The main disadvantage is that selling BTC subjects them to taxation, and it lowers the income for their main mining pools heavily depending on a higher BTC value. Jihan is an asshole, but not an idiot, he needs BTC to perform well, especially in the runup to his IPO. Dumping BTC down means less demand for his miners.

The don't need part comes into play in form of free BCHSV coins they will use to fill up financial gaps. They'll dump them and celebrate being freed from faketoshi.

[5ensei]

The price of bitcoin cash has also plummeted so their plans have not been overly successful. Creating a new coin out of nothing was a great achievement so from a greed aspect they done well for themselves, but they never toppled BTC

[deisik]

People overcredit these bastards.

They aren't selling their BTC to USD because they don't even need to. The main disadvantage is that selling BTC subjects them to taxation, and it lowers the income for their main mining pools heavily depending on a higher BTC value. Jihan is an asshole, but not an idiot, he needs BTC to perform well, especially in the runup to his IPO. Dumping BTC down means less demand for his miners.

The don't need part comes into play in form of free BCHSV coins they will use to fill up financial gaps. They'll dump them and celebrate being freed from faketoshi.

Better the devil you know, huh?

Jihad is not an idiot, but can you say the same about Craig and his minions? If the latter acts like the one and starts burning his money (well, actually not his money but it doesn't matter here), what will Jihad do? You can't gain much from selling SV coins if there is no place accepting them and no price tag attached. And for the record, right now you can't sell ABC coins under whatever ticker either. Major exchanges disabled BCH deposits and withdrawals for the time being anyway. As I said, it is a matter of time until things start to escalate scarily, and then the part which has more financial muscle (read, bitcoins) wins, if we can call that so. In other words, it is a potentially lethal engagement for Bitcoin Cash as a whole, a trap of sorts, because if one side is insane (which it is), the other is set to act as insane. In the simplest of terms, no rest for the wicked and Craig is extremely toxic to his environment. There's no way out for these clowns, and it is a good thing and luck for us they got locked in the same room finally. Let the rats eat each other

[1Referee]

Better the devil you know, huh?

Jihad is not an idiot, but can you say the same about Craig and his minions? If the latter acts like the one and starts burning his money (well, actually not his money but it doesn't matter here), what will Jihad do? You can't gain much from selling SV coins if there is no place accepting them and no price tag attached. And for the record, right now you can't sell ABC coins under whatever ticker either. Major exchanges disabled BCH deposits and withdrawals for the time being anyway. As I said, it is a matter of time until things start to escalate exponentially, and then the part which has more financial muscle (read, bitcoins) wins, if we can call that so. In other words, it is a potentially lethal engagement for Bitcoin Cash as a whole, a trap of sorts, because if one side is insane (which it is), the other is set to act as insane. In the simplest of terms, no rest for the wicked and Craig is toxic. There's no way out for these clowns, and it is a good thing for us. Let'em eat each other

Craig is a lunatic, and he may even be at a point he believes in his own lies.

Bitmain has a company to run, as I said before, heavily depending on BTC to perform well. If Bitmain for whatever reason positions itself in a situation it is forced to obtain fiat to pay bills and whatnot, they will liquidate other coins. As per their own released holdings report, they own 930,000 LTC, 300,000 DASH, and a small amount of Ether.

Tone Vays had Craig Wright in his show for an hour, where Craig said that they use BitPay as their fiat exit point to pay bills and whatnot, so another reason why he's not affecting the market personally. BitPay doesn't immediately sell their coins, just short a fraction and keeps the rest in reserve. And we don't actually know what he is cashing out, he can act like a tough boy, but he need all his Bitcoins (if he has a noteworthy amount to begin with) to pump up his shitty coin.

Tone Vays vs Craigh Wright show; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACEUOCoVvmw

[davis196]

there is no way for any of us to know because wise people don't share their financial matters with others. and anybody who advertises whet they did is surely lying.

my guess is that no they are not because these people believe in bitcoin more than anybody else. that is why they attempted to take over bitcoin and failed but created BCH instead. you can't expect such people to sell the most valuable possession they have...

They could sell their most valuable possesion for two reasons:
1.To fund their "crypto civil wars".Bying more mining equipment,listing their forked altcoins in exchanges,etc.
2.To crash bitcoin core,so they could buy again bitcoins at a price lower than 6K USD after a while,which means easy "bearish" profits.

[deisik]

Better the devil you know, huh?

Jihad is not an idiot, but can you say the same about Craig and his minions? If the latter acts like the one and starts burning his money (well, actually not his money but it doesn't matter here), what will Jihad do? You can't gain much from selling SV coins if there is no place accepting them and no price tag attached. And for the record, right now you can't sell ABC coins under whatever ticker either. Major exchanges disabled BCH deposits and withdrawals for the time being anyway. As I said, it is a matter of time until things start to escalate exponentially, and then the part which has more financial muscle (read, bitcoins) wins, if we can call that so. In other words, it is a potentially lethal engagement for Bitcoin Cash as a whole, a trap of sorts, because if one side is insane (which it is), the other is set to act as insane. In the simplest of terms, no rest for the wicked and Craig is toxic. There's no way out for these clowns, and it is a good thing for us. Let'em eat each other

Craig is a lunatic, and he may even be at a point he believes in his own lies.

Bitmain has a company to run, as I said before, heavily depending on BTC to perform well. If Bitmain for whatever reason positions itself in a situation it is forced to obtain fiat to pay bills and whatnot, they will liquidate other coins. As per their own released holdings report, they own 930,000 LTC, 300,000 DASH, and a small amount of Ether.

Tone Vays had Craig Wright in his show for an hour, where Craig said that they use BitPay as their fiat exit point to pay bills and whatnot, so another reason why he's not affecting the market personally. BitPay doesn't immediately sell their coins, just short a fraction and keeps the rest in reserve. And we don't actually know what he is cashing out, he can act like a tough boy, but he need all his Bitcoins (if he has a noteworthy amount to begin with) to pump up his shitty coin.

Tone Vays vs Craigh Wright show; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACEUOCoVvmw

You can't expect a lunatic to act rationally

If we accept that and assume that Craig actually delivers on his promises to ground the other chain (or at least makes an earnest attempt to), everything boils down to whether Bitmain and their benefactors are willing to sacrifice Bitcoin Cash in favor of Bitcoin to avoid getting caught in a death spiral of raising stakes infinitely (well, until the other side runs out of money). If they are not, then they will have to sell bitcoins to keep Craig's attempts to derail BCH contained. Selling litecoins or whatever will simply crash these coins, so from a purely economic point of view selling Bitcoin is a given when things go from bad to worse for these dudes

[clrpod]

Even if they're selling, they hold so many that what we've seen so far would barely make a dent on their stacks, CSW said that he is selling and is willing to sell all of his bitcoin holdings, how much you can trust that statement is your own decision - personally I don't really buy in to it.

[cellard]

They could have attempted to bring the price down when the hashrate went down as well to create a chain spiral of events. CSW was FUDding hard on twitter all day claiming that, if needed, he would bring the price to 2013 levels.

The fact is, CSW has already failed. ABC team did the cheeky move of adding arbitrary checkpoints, so as far as I can tell right now they cannot reorg the chain as they wanted, so it's a failure. He said there would be no split, but the reality of the situation is, they have lost a lot of money, and we now have $BCHABC and $BCHSV fighting with each other for who is the real "Bitcoin Cash", which "is the real Bitcoin". Imagine having to defend that narrative

[cellard]

They could have attempted to bring the price down when the hashrate went down as well to create a chain spiral of events. CSW was FUDding hard on twitter all day claiming that, if needed, he would bring the price to 2013 levels.

The fact is, CSW has already failed. ABC team did the cheeky move of adding arbitrary checkpoints, so as far as I can tell right now they cannot reorg the chain as they wanted, so it's a failure. He said there would be no split, but the reality of the situation is, they have lost a lot of money, and we now have $BCHABC and $BCHSV fighting with each other for who is the real "Bitcoin Cash", which "is the real Bitcoin". Imagine having to defend that narrative

Checkpoints are useless against replays and double spends

Unless they want to put them after each block. But in that case they wouldn't need an overhead in the form of miners confirming transactions, just a server processing payment in a perfectly centralized way. The implication is that the ABC chain should at all times have higher hash rate to prevent such things from happening. That basically means they are in a losing position by default and have to keep up a safety margin. Otherwise they instantly render themselves vulnerable to a 51% attack and all kind of ugly things that CSW can try to pull off. I don't know how that can be considered a failure on the SV side

They promised no split by the end of the 15th and there is a split, we have 2 coins, 2 price tickers, 2 chains. So it's already a failure. I thought CSW and Calvin were shadow mining but at this point it isn't the case.

Hashrate is also not keeping up: https://cash.coin.dance/blocks/hashrate

CSW so desperate that he bought satoshi twitter handle to shitpost and he got banned short after: http://twitter.com/satoshi

Bunch of clowns on both ends that will end up bankrupt for good.

[deisik]

They could have attempted to bring the price down when the hashrate went down as well to create a chain spiral of events. CSW was FUDding hard on twitter all day claiming that, if needed, he would bring the price to 2013 levels.

The fact is, CSW has already failed. ABC team did the cheeky move of adding arbitrary checkpoints, so as far as I can tell right now they cannot reorg the chain as they wanted, so it's a failure. He said there would be no split, but the reality of the situation is, they have lost a lot of money, and we now have $BCHABC and $BCHSV fighting with each other for who is the real "Bitcoin Cash", which "is the real Bitcoin". Imagine having to defend that narrative

Checkpoints are useless against replays and double spends unless they want to put them after each block. But in that case they don't need an overhead in the form of miners sticking around. A couple of servers processing payments in a perfectly centralized way would do just fine. The implication is that the ABC chain should at all times have a higher hash rate to prevent such things from happening. That basically means they are in a losing position by default and have to keep up a safety margin at any price. Otherwise, they instantly render themselves vulnerable to a 51% attack and all kinds of ugly things that CSW can try to pull off. I don't know how that can be considered a failure on the SV side of the chain. And this can go on for months without CSW actually doing anything other than fearmongering and selling wolf tickets. Overall, it is a losing game for the ABC chain over the long term, and this is what counts, not "they promised no split by the end of the 15th and there is a split"

ABC team's only viable option is to change the protocol but in that case they are no longer Bitcoin

[Tyr808]

CSW is unreliable. He often resorts to threats and silly allegations. He's called Faketoshi for a reason.
Anyway as I stated previously, CraigCoin seems to be valued much more highly than it should. I'll explain..
BCHABC is basically the continuation of BCH as per full implementation of the old protocol.
BCHSV is a completely new thing still unbacked by commercials. Which is fine - but how could that possibly justify BCHSV current market cap being as high as ADA? BCHSV might be doomed to a steep downfall. Thoughts?

[deisik]

Thoughts?

No rest for the wicked



The statistical correlation is apparent and undeniable

Personally, I think the causal relationship is bidirectional here, which means whenever there is a change in the SV chain hashrate, there is a subsequent change in the ABC chain hashrate as well to keep the safety margin I mentioned earlier. On the other hand, Craig and his sidekicks are playing up by adding some hashes to the furnace as they see fit in order to keep ABC bleeding. As I said, the ABC chain is set to fail eventually unless they back off from this mortal engagement. But that would likely mean they can't be called Bitcoin XYZ any more

[rickadone]

This is not a secret, they even told this on their twitter, that is a public platform where they literally said they will keep on selling bitcoin to get some fiat currency to pay for this fight.

If they want to win they have to fight for it, both sides will spend millions of dollars into this war and one will eventually lose so as expected they will spend as much as they can possibly spend on this war in order to be the winner. If they lose, they both lose the war and all the money spent on it will go to waste as well. Why would anyone spend millions of dollars into something they eventually lose, so both sides think they have a deeper pocket and can continue spending bitcoin on this war longer than the other person.

Craig of course has a lot of bitcoin whereas abc dudes have a lot of hash power themselves and also of course a lot of bitcoins they mined which means both sides will take this as long as economically possible to win. The only losers will be us the small people that stand between this war.

[BitHodler]

Craig of course has a lot of bitcoin whereas abc dudes have a lot of hash power themselves and also of course a lot of bitcoins they mined which means both sides will take this as long as economically possible to win. The only losers will be us the small people that stand between this war.

I keep reading that people think CSW has a lot of BTC, but what's that based on? They are using the sentiment against people in an attempt to talk themselves up, which is ridiculous if people actually believe that.

The price should have tanked way below $6000 a couple of months ago already, where right now we're only speeding up the process of correcting accordingly. Let it happen, it won't continue endlessly.

The lower the price is, the less effective dumps become, because the same amount of fiat already in the market will be able to eat through larger sales more efficiently. Sellers, keep emptying your bags, do it!

[deisik]

The price should have tanked way below $6000 a couple of months ago already, where right now we're only speeding up the process of correcting accordingly. Let it happen, it won't continue endlessly.

The lower the price is, the less effective dumps become, because the same amount of fiat already in the market will be able to eat through larger sales more efficiently. Sellers, keep emptying your bags, do it!

It works in the opposite direction as well

That is, at lesser prices you can borrow more bitcoins with the same amount of fiat and push them down the throat of morons like the one who had been arguing with me in December claiming that there were millions of dollars sitting in the orderbooks above 10k just waiting for the prices to correct a little. He obviously didn't have a clue that with those millions I could simply borrow his bitcoins and sell them back to him. Then rinse, repeat

[gentlemand]

I keep reading that people think CSW has a lot of BTC, but what's that based on?

Yup. I don't understand this either. He's spending his little friend Calvin's money. I doubt Craigy has the money for a bus fare, and what money he has was probably conned out of the tax man.

[cryptokwuk]

It's one big smokescreen.

Both Roger Ver and CSW have clearly declared they are the real bitcoin and bitcoin core will be destroyed.

So first, you cause confusing and an apparent conflict that gets the entire crypto market nervous and panicking.
Then you start dumping little bits of your btc stash increasing this very feeling and behavior. (And for them, these dumps are like pennies to all of us together). Bitcoin price and entire market tanks like crazy.
Buy all the mining power that is no longer being used or want a 'better deal' than mining at a loss.
Get the vast majority of mining power for BCH/SV.
Buy all the cheap BCH in a desperate market with the hundreds of millions you still have left to waste, only BCH/SV goes up, everybody considers it safe haven and the one strong coin.
You win.

They have announced it over and over for more than a year, except nobody is listening and thinks they are full of shit.
You may hate them, they may have terrible ideas, it is all irrelevant.
Money talks.

[LeGaulois]

A lot of people swapped few coins to buy BCH only to get the free coins . Of course, many of them are currently selling their coins, what do you think. (like with ICO bounties campaign, participants sell everything asap) Personally not much interested in SV or ABC, but I am now going to watch BCH drama

[gentlemand]

A lot of people swapped few coins to buy BCH only to get the free coins . Of course, many of them are currently selling their coins, what do you think. (like with ICO bounties campaign, participants sell everything asap) Personally not much interested in SV or ABC, but I am now going to watch BCH drama

It doesn't really matter what the peons do with their varying forms of Bcash. It's the major bagholders like Bitmain who are itching to dump on each other. I dunno what the score is with their IPO but I hope any real investors walk a long way away after all this.

[deisik]

It's one big smokescreen.

Both Roger Ver and CSW have clearly declared they are the real bitcoin and bitcoin core will be destroyed.

So first, you cause confusing and an apparent conflict that gets the entire crypto market nervous and panicking.
Then you start dumping little bits of your btc stash increasing this very feeling and behavior. (And for them, these dumps are like pennies to all of us together). Bitcoin price and entire market tanks like crazy.
Buy all the mining power that is no longer being used or want a 'better deal' than mining at a loss.
Get the vast majority of mining power for BCH/SV.
Buy all the cheap BCH in a desperate market with the hundreds of millions you still have left to waste, only BCH/SV goes up, everybody considers it safe haven and the one strong coin.
You win.

They have announced it over and over for more than a year, except nobody is listening and thinks they are full of shit.
You may hate them, they may have terrible ideas, it is all irrelevant.
Money talks.

When money talks bullshit walks

Their quarrels hurt Bitcoin Cash first and foremost (and I hope beyond recovery). If they really could do what you think they are doing (though I don't doubt they want that), it would make more sense to strike together. Right now people see that Bitcoin Cash is quickly turning into a toxic asset, and their disgust and aversion are unlikely to disappear in the future. It does hurt Bitcoin too, but the farther it goes, the less power and influence people like CSW will have over our minds and wallets, up to a point where they are no longer relevant, both financially and intellectually

The don't need part comes into play in form of free BCHSV coins they will use to fill up financial gaps. They'll dump them and celebrate being freed from faketoshi

So far it looks like they are more willing to dump bitcoins as otherwise there simply would not be enough liquidity in the market (and that would be too obvious as well as utterly useless). The steep price decline as of recent seems to confirm my worst apprehensions

[cellard]

It's one big smokescreen.

Both Roger Ver and CSW have clearly declared they are the real bitcoin and bitcoin core will be destroyed.

So first, you cause confusing and an apparent conflict that gets the entire crypto market nervous and panicking.
Then you start dumping little bits of your btc stash increasing this very feeling and behavior. (And for them, these dumps are like pennies to all of us together). Bitcoin price and entire market tanks like crazy.
Buy all the mining power that is no longer being used or want a 'better deal' than mining at a loss.
Get the vast majority of mining power for BCH/SV.
Buy all the cheap BCH in a desperate market with the hundreds of millions you still have left to waste, only BCH/SV goes up, everybody considers it safe haven and the one strong coin.
You win.

They have announced it over and over for more than a year, except nobody is listening and thinks they are full of shit.
You may hate them, they may have terrible ideas, it is all irrelevant.
Money talks.

Craig Wright has said on an interview that he has enough funds to keep mining BCH/SV while attacking BCH/ABC until 2026. I guess he is counting with Calvin Ayre's findings for the task. However, loses aren't linear, things can happen and he may be overrating for how much he can keep this circus going on.


The empirical and only end result here is that "Bitcoin Cash", which pretends to be Bitcoin, has now 2 camps fighting each other to be "the real Bitcoin Cash". In other words: this is only straightening Bitcoin while damaging greatly any future hopes of forking Bitcoin. We knew this was the case in theory, we are just seeing it on practice now as both parties involved are literally burning money away, and confusing everyone that was holding/wanted to buy the token.

[lionelpaul]

[deisik]

It looks like Bitcoin ABC is in a free fall presently, while its foe, Bitcoin SV, seems to be stable (as in grave). Actually, I don't believe that the latter is really stable as I think its price is being propped up by artificial demand likely coming from Craig and his accomplices, which may also be dumping ABC coins at the same time, now and then. At the moment the ABC chain still has higher price but the price dynamics doesn't look very promising for it (which should have been expected given the financial muscle that CSW has built)

Anyway, I couldn't care less If ABC dies first and SV dies soon thereafter

[Crypdon]

Bitcoin cash is a plague on the crypto world, the sooner people dump and abandon this shitcoin the better it will be for all of us. No more forks and battles to dump the price to the ground