Under merited boards: Scam Accusations and Reputation

[Cashi]

Most topics in Scam Accusations and Reputation require a deep and time-consuming research, like working out the proof of accounts cheating bounties or informations of scam ICOs. But merit is distributed in a very rare way there, so it could be a good incentive to distribute more merit there.
Especially, if merit sources have some unspent sMerit remaining and don’t know where to spend them, this sMerit could be distributed for good reports on these boards, that more sMerits will be available again for the merit source next time.

Some examples:


Reputation:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2544574.msg45736714#msg45736714
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2544574.msg39167996#msg39167996
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2544574.msg44465819#msg44465819
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2544574.msg43118455#msg43118455
...

Scam Accusations:

Elisia - SCAM - FAKE TEAM
⚡HashByte⚡ [SCAM] FAKE TEAM stock images
Kingscoin - Plagiarized whitepaper
List of SCAM ICO![PROVED]
...

There are far more, only to list a few.

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[The Sceptical Chymist]

I'm reluctant to give merits to posts in the "known alts" thread anymore, since I'd have to verify the accuracy of the report--which I don't have a lot of time to do, nor am I a blockchain detective.  I've also given out negs for posts in that thread which later turned out to be wrong, because I put too much trust in other people's detective work.

As for the fake ICO threads, those usually do get enough merit if I'm not mistaken, and the Elisia scam accusation by ICOEthics is only a couple of days old (and I just gave him a couple merits). 

I do agree to some extent with you, OP.  Some members do put in a lot of work finding scams, and they ought to be rewarded for it.  I don't think most of the valid scam accusations go severely under-merited, though.  As I've been having trouble finding merit-worthy posts lately, I'll keep your point in mind.

[suchmoon]

I'm meriting Scam Accusations quite often - whenever I have some time.

I'm not gonna go into the "known alts" thread though... the standards of proof in that thread are too nebulous IMO.

[Jet Cash]

I don't merit boards, I merit good posters.

As has been mentioned many times, awarding merits for reportung posts and bad behaviour is open to abuse, and should not be encouraged.

[coinlocket$]

I'm a big poster there maybe even the bigger poster there on the "find alts thread" and yes we have low merit on that area but I've never begged for merit even if it takes hours sometimes to find alt accounts.
The main problem is not missing on merit (even if, you know it helps ) is the missing of DTs.
In the past we had Lauda who tagged abusers, now we have sometimes @Marloborza and rarely some other 2-3 DTs.

The list of DTs is quite big we have more than 50 I guess, but seems now nobody cares to tag cheaters.
Since I know, (believe me List of Abusers waiting for red tag.) is a very long work to find alts and DTs don't want to use their time to check it, we maybe need to find a solution for it, since is quite disgusting to find people reported with 30+ accounts and never tagged and still abusing after months/years.

I also think if we tag them for abusing (with a DT tag) we maybe also need to tag bountymanagers when they accept them with their alts on campaigns.

[marlboroza]

I don't merit boards, I merit good posters.

This really wasn't necessary 

As has been mentioned many times, awarding merits for reportung posts and bad behaviour is open to abuse, and should not be encouraged.

This is first time I have heard about this, where was it mentioned many times?

Someone spend hours to expose scam, create constructive and interesting post in scam accusation which will probably help many investors and newcomers without enough knowledge and detective skills to save money, how is that not worth of merit?

[The Cryptovator]

I have made a post about it long time ago, Merit source should visit Scam Accusation board occasionally  . But I didn't get positive response from merit source or reputed member's. I believe scam exposer not only helping forum member's, also they are helping lots of people's even outside of forum. Because In case if some one search on Google for research or find details before invest, then simply bitcointalk scam accusation result will be top on Google search. So we can say they are helping total crypto community and users.

However, someone have doubts how to determine which is really scam. Answere is we don't know, because no one can say who will skip with fund. Some case even no team they are still on market, some case even real team they skipped with fund. So it's not easy to determine and I accept it. But one thing most of exposed ICO has turned in scam. Once we report a spam post we can see, "Do not worry about your accuracy too much; one accurate report is worth many inaccurate reports." So why not think same on Scam report ? Exposer just make a report with details.

It's very simple to understand what is intention of team from accusation report, I don't think that you need 100% sure that they will scam. You can send merit based on report. Just need to verify how accurate report are. Lots of post unmerited those are turn into scam, who care about it ? Is it not helpful ? No, I don't have any complain personally. I have got enough from others post. But there are more user who is spending lot of time to find scammer. If you can show appriciation to good poster so why are you not showing appriciation to scam exposer.

For better example, let's check few of my exposed scam ICO turned those are still unmerited.(But I got for making list), just example of accusation board. Here is my protfolio.

Edit;

If much rather the trust ratings of Scam exposers be improved and they be given more positive ratings. This for me is more important than merits.

It's your own opinion. Trust and merit is totally different. Everyone can post Scam Accusation it doesn't mean he is trusted.

[Gloverwrt]

If much rather the trust ratings of Scam exposers be improved and they be given more positive ratings. This for me is more important than merits.
But not everyone has the time or skill to check on their scam accusations and with the low tolerance for altcoins and ICOs most just don't care.

[Steamtyme]

I'm no data cruncher so I'm not about to go through to find the numbers on this.

I don't know if OP had a metric in mind to compare merit given out per board or just saw some threads they felt deserved merit or more. There's a good chance the board itself receives less merit because it really is a niche for most people to know if the report has done it's due diligence. I would also wager that the amount of deserving threads being created there daily is less than other boards where more merit is distributed.

Also just because a thread was a lot of work or helped a lot of people doesn't mean it will always earn 20+ merit. There is no formula sometimes you just gotta take the 1 and count it as a win. In the end it shouldn't be about the amount of merit received.

I don't merit boards, I merit good posters.

This really wasn't necessary  

As has been mentioned many times, awarding merits for reportung posts and bad behaviour is open to abuse, and should not be encouraged.

This is first time I have heard about this, where was it mentioned many times?

Someone spend hours to expose scam, create constructive and interesting post in scam accusation which will probably help many investors and newcomers without enough knowledge and detective skills to save money, how is that not worth of merit?

I recall some of what JC is talking about I think that was more inline with reporting posts, and some merit being awarded for that in the Russian section. Can't be sure right now. I agree that people shouldn't just be reporting posts or plagiarism expecting merit.

The reports Marlboro refers to IMO definitely fit the bill for "quality posts" which I believe to be the base criteria for awarding merit. It just takes people who appreciate this and can validate it to see these threads and award merit. Even if they can't figure it out for themselves, after a while the community usually decides one way or another, making it easier to decide if the thread warrants merit. I'm guilty of getting lost in some of those investigations and kudos to all that take the time to fight scams.

I think this would be a great example for some merit sources to have a proxy, that delivers them lists of threads to reward there. This idea has been kicked around a little to help local boards.

[r1s2g3]

I will quote few post from Howeycoin ANN thread.

anybody post the website link !! where can i get it ??

I think that the project is very well structured, especially in the financial sector and certified by the government of the United States, it gives that feeling of confidence and security to its investors. I think it will be very successful. In what way can be part of the project, I would like to have a little more information about it.

Hi I am lazy to read all comments I want to know that is this project still open ?

Why is this pinned and endorsed by bitcointalk?

There will be numerous quotes in this forum that will explain the comprehension level of this forum member. How hard you try to make a list of scam ICO
they will like to remain ignorant . They become expert in managing 100+ bounties and they have no time to read even the OP of ANN thread, forget about other comments.

Who needs the report of alt accounts?
I do not think any sensible member(may be very few) here is participating in "ICO tokens stakes" bounties. They are not interested in finding Alt account who are abusing bounties. people are more interested in finding the rule breaker (spammer and plagiarizer) and get them banned.

Who needs the report of scam ICO?
I do not think in current scenario anyone is chasing ICOs for doing investment.

To be very frank, both of these activities not breaking forum rules.(though they are frowned.) Both of the problem are originating from Altcoin Boards and I guess we all rarely check these boards and very  disinterested in these token offerings.

Bounty Managers , that should be our first line of defense in catching both, failed badly.

I respect the time devoted by coinlocket$,Coolcrytovator  and ICOEthics for their research and findings and few month back I requested to add  Guidelines, how to spot a scam ICO & report effectively. ✔  thread in sticky and below are the key points in Welsh reply.

I'm all for helping the community, but I'm not prepared to spoon feed anyone.
 Anyone investing their time/money in altcoins should already know the risks associated with them.
I'm sure most serious users who care about the projects, and where their money is going will search up the project via the scam accusations thread as well as finding public information about them through a search engine.
Maybe, something like that could be added to a sticky, but I like the fact that most stickies are about moderation, and not guides on how to invest, and to do research.

Since Alt and Scam are not punishable by forum rule and general consensus of community is "DYOR" instead of somebody else might be doing it for you, might explain lack of merits.
 

Edit:
PS: There are no merits in reporting plagiarizer and pressing "Report To Moderator" button also. We all do this as to contribute in this forum.
     I guess, If these guys can get DT status for their work then it might make their life somewhat easier.

[Hivalley]

I do not think any board,specific role played nor contributions to the forum ought to be payed more special attention that the other, reporting scam/spam is worthy of being merited,likewise starting up a thread in meta about how to quell spam/SCam and also likewise giving out tips on healthy trading in the trading discussions board...

It's basically all about the development of the forum,which the forum totally appreciates with or without merits..
If a user/source finds ones report meritable,then so be it, if not such user has still be of help to the forum,so either way,its not really about being merited,but about the invaluable contributions dished out to the forum

[S_Therapist]

I agree with that people shouldn't just be reporting posts or plagiarism expecting merit.

Agreed but I still appreciate those who reports post, plagiarism, scam expecting merits. Because they are truely helping the forum a lot with their efforts.
The fact is, the logic behind putting merits vary person to person. For example, marlboroza put sMerits on different scam report posts while Jet Cash is quite opposite of it. On the other hand, Jet Cash put sMerits on underserved posts (admitted by himself), just for not quoting the OP which I am not agreed.
Earlier, r1s2g3 have said to check users bpip whether he is banned or not, while suchmoon (probably) said quality is the only reason to send sMerits, no matter who he is what he has done(exception plagiarism).

[coinlocket$]

~
Someone spend hours to expose scam, create constructive and interesting post in scam accusation which will probably help many investors and newcomers without enough knowledge and detective skills to save money, how is that not worth of merit?

I totally agree with you, I see on this board people get even 10 merits when they find one plagiarism (it takes few minutes) and people who discover scams get 0 merits, and I'm shocked reading here that is not worthy of merit.  
Someone post a gif and get 10+ merit, someone discovers a scam a save potentially millions of dollars and is not worthy of merit?

I respect the time devoted by coinlocket$,Coolcrytovator  and ICOEthics for their research and findings and few month back I requested to add  Guidelines, how to spot a scam ICO & report effectively. ✔  thread in sticky and below are the key points in Welsh reply.

Ty man, I have spent a lot of hours on the reports, and the fact that nobody is doing something about it is quite disappointing, I think I'm one of the last  or even the last regular active alt blasters, Known Alts of any-one - A User Generated List Mk III (2018 Q4) , The others guys were posting there but since almost nobody cares about it they left.
I'm tempted to leave also.

[Cashi]

Thanks for your answers so far and I agree with most of them. Of course it’s not easy to decide if a scam accusation is true or if a detection of merit abuse or multiple alts enrolled in the same signature bounty are true. But if you have posted such a proof once whether it’s a scam research or a research of bounty abuse it’s not very difficult to decide if it’s a good one and deserve some merit.

Some cases can be difficult, but for the obvious ones it should be indeed encouraged to give a merit. I think its quite dangerous to discourage this, as mentioned before this forum has a very high rank on google search for exposing scams.
Of course, the detection of bounty cheaters is also very important, it’s not less than the core problem of most spam in the forum. If we can tag all cheaters we will have less spam because they will stop posting immediately, that’s obvious.
I read complaints about spam every day and I understand the complaints. But instead of complaining it would be much more effective just to tag the cheaters and then they will stop to submit shitposts for bounties.
At least Jr. Members and higher since it requires merit to get there.

I agree we need more DT members, or more active DT members tagging them. I appreciate the effort of the few existing DT members to review the reports and tag accordingly, but right now it looks like there aren’t enough doing so.
I’m sure there is a chance to tag them all (better now than later) and this will affect the spam problem in a very positive way. But therefore, we need active DT members and cheater hunters. And giving merit to good reports would encourage more members to report.