franky1
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March 10, 2014, 05:11:35 AM |
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ok heres an idea.
imagine bitcoin transactions and mining.
but a whole new blockchain
but instead of just (in laymens terms) having the transaction saying "send 1BTC from 1ssgdfgdfdfg to 1awsdesaas"
it instead says "send 1BTC from 1ssgdfgdfdfg to 1awsdesaas and send 650Dollacoin from $pldfpgldpfg to $dldkfgldfkg"
(blue is jack, brown is jill)
so that the transaction has both parties transactions in one tx.
then just like bitcoin it gets passed through the peers/nodes. and miners mine the transaction into the block.
once the block has a confirm. then the clients balances adjust according to the block chain
(again thinking of the physics.)
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I DO NOT TRADE OR ACT AS ESCROW ON THIS FORUM EVER.
Please do your own research & respect what is written here as both opinion & information gleaned from experience. many people replying with insults but no on-topic content substance, automatically are 'facepalmed' and yawned at
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There are several different types of Bitcoin clients. The most secure are full nodes like Bitcoin Core, but full nodes are more resource-heavy, and they must do a lengthy initial syncing process. As a result, lightweight clients with somewhat less security are commonly used.
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Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction.
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mobile4ever
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March 10, 2014, 05:14:16 AM |
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I think it is designed as decentralized, but owned by a small group. Dont quote me on that one, please. |
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Singlebyte
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March 10, 2014, 05:30:15 AM |
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I'm not even sure how you came up with that analysis of OT? open transactions owns the servers and the source. No, it is an open source project. You can run the software on any server you want. From their website: "The Open-Transactions project is a collaborative effort to develop a robust, commercial-grade, fully-featured, free-software toolkit implementing the OTX protocol as well as a full-strength financial cryptography library, API, CLI, and prototype server. The project is managed by a worldwide community of volunteers that use the Internet to communicate, plan, and develop the Open-Transactions toolkit and its related documentation." open transactions appears to want you to deposit your funds, which then get spread across several of THEIR servers which then gives you a balance in their desktop client. and funds would only move if the majority of those dispursed servers see the trade agreement has been made and athenticated. No...you will use gateways to deposit into the network open transactions is not decentralised. From their website: "Is Open-Transactions centralized? The vision is not of a central server that you must trust. Rather, the vision is of federated servers you don't have to trust." (Albeit it is not decentralized in regards to the true purest meaning) It is simply an open source project that allows a federation of servers (you don't need to trust) to facilitate the transactions. All the code is available on github so you do not need to use "their" server. You can choose any server on the network. |
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Armis (OP)
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March 10, 2014, 05:53:56 AM |
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in the situation that you posed, when would the automated escrow release the funds, upon receipt or upon x# of confirmations ?
preferably when both escrows (dollacoin and BTC) had one confirm. the protocol would wait for both single confirms then auto send to the recipients addresses. but in a open source p2p program that is sat on someone hard drive. how do you prevent one user tweaking their source code to release funds instantly? The funds would never sit on a server & escrow would not be needed. They stay in your wallet until the transaction is performed. The server acts as a notary to the transaction using M of N to pass the keys once the contract is fulfilled. You client software would digitally sign the keys so they are not intercepted. No one other than the two parties involved would ever have access to the coins. I think it's awesome, now the definition of a transaction is split up into many parts. 1) the order buyer and seller sign respectively 2) the wallet/client/server acknowledgement/notary 3) the transmittal of info to server and blockchain for requisite confirmations 4) if all is well simultaneous release and exchange of items to wallets in the case of disconnected internet service from phone, wallet, server, or anything else, are funds in limbo until connection is made, or otherwise waiting chris gave the impression that they would be somehow waiting somewhere whooops, while I was typing above I see you made an entry relating to what I wrote, .... could you delineate the transaction process so that the distinctions between wallets, servers, clients, gateways, blockchains, and whatever else are made |
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btc_jumpnrl
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March 10, 2014, 06:45:00 AM |
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The conversion to Fiat is one of the biggest weak points, if not the biggest. The second is keeping the txs off the blockchain and keeping them fast.
The idea i've toyed around with is splitting the exchange into 3 separate main parts: A local user wallet, A third-party trusted escrow, then the Orderbook(audited/run an altcoin).
You would force users to deposit into a local wallet the user keeps that produces a certificate that funds indeed exist. Then in order to use the funds on the exchange, the funds are sent from local to escrow with a certification. On send and receive to the escrow, the orderbook would 1:1 carbon copy assign all inputs to an Altcoin exclusively run by the exchange (with audits). This could even just be a couple wallets containing all the pre-mined altcoin/orderbookcoins and let the wallet handle all transactions internally. This would keep trading at a real-time input level. Then when someone wanted to 'cash out' or even after a set amount of time after not making any trades, the altcoin/orderbook would push out the current account information to the escrow and then verify and move the bitcoins in escrow accordingly. This would of course create a delay for verification from blockchain but only on deposit and withdraws. Everything else inside the orderbook would flow in real time.
The methods opens up fractional reserve, but its bound to happen at some point. But ignoring that. You would set the altcoin wallet accounting to always check for 1:1 match to the coins in escrow, and whenever coins left escrow the would leave the orderbook/altcoin wallet as well. No matter what with Fiat involved, a third party is going to have control over your money at some point. You can keep bitcoin txs almost completely out of it, but at some point you need to verify that the bitcoin balances are real and unspent.
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Tips: 1H1DF3BzFF2CVhPB4psEghg4bF5VYDseBT
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coinage
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March 10, 2014, 07:22:33 AM |
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No bots?
I would argue for exactly the opposite: An exchange with built-in automatic trading capabilities so that all users have the option to preprogram their responses to the market as easily as possible.
Consider:
It is very difficult & time consuming to trade bitcoin optimally without assistants who watch & react to the market for you 24/7. Automation lets you more perfectly execute your trading plan.
There seems no way for an exchange to completely prohibit bots, because software can interact with a web page just as any ordinary user can. (A bot can parse the HTML or screen-scrape the web browser. Also, you need to provide APIs if you want to let users use external trading platforms such as Metatrader, Zeroblock, BitcoinCharts Pro, etc.)
The most you can do is minimize bots and prohibit high-speed trading. An exchange would have to place restrictions on all traders, by limiting the number of trades which can occur in a certain amount of time, or (annoyingly) by requiring completion of a captcha every so many trades. (But captchas can be bypassed in real time at low cost via services using software and human workers to solve them. They would mainly annoy your regular customers.)
Worst of all, eliminating automated trading would tend to make your exchange much less popular: spreads would be much larger, volume would be reduced, arbitrage would have longer lags, and there would be less "action." There would still be arbitrage going on, however: your price would generally follow that of any other exchange, just not moment to moment. So you could not simply isolate your exchange from all the others which are influenced by bots.
(Regardless, we should only support exchange designs where users retain most or all control over their assets and how they will be traded. GIven that, you can't tell users not to use algorithmic trading, but you can make it available to all users.)
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Phinnaeus Gage
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Bitcoin: An Idea Worth Spending
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March 10, 2014, 07:42:52 AM |
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1) community validation / certification - I would to see some huge size community group (none anonymous) say 1000+ people, vote give star ratings to service providers.
...
Something simple like star ratings would be nice. This is a feature that usually works really well due to the fact that it represents independent peer reviews, something that could fit bitcoin really well. If nothing else if would make sure the vast majority of newcomers picks a trustworthy service. There was a session at the Texas bitcoin conference where this issue was discussed, and there was some interesting ideas there, even though I fear we could easily end up with a cartel like situation if we don't get it right. what are some of the other ideas that were shared at the conference That is more about making exchanges secure though, not necessary efficient or user friendly or decentralized wow, that was a powerful video, had to watch it twice; and will likely watch it a couple more times Thanks for the link, bud. I like that Justin dude having had the pleasure of meeting him twice. |
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franky1
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March 10, 2014, 05:27:43 PM |
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An exchange would have to place restrictions on all traders, by limiting the number of trades which can occur in a certain amount of time,
how about limit the size of each transactions to be no more then X% of the entire volume. then someone cant simply spike or crash the market with one order |
I DO NOT TRADE OR ACT AS ESCROW ON THIS FORUM EVER.
Please do your own research & respect what is written here as both opinion & information gleaned from experience. many people replying with insults but no on-topic content substance, automatically are 'facepalmed' and yawned at
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datz
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"to survive, we must live and fly"
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March 11, 2014, 07:46:27 AM |
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Decentralize the platform. It should require no trust and be peer to peer.  |
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Armis (OP)
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March 11, 2014, 04:56:55 PM
Last edit: March 12, 2014, 07:33:24 PM by Armis |
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please take the time and space to elaborate |
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franky1
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March 12, 2014, 07:27:01 PM |
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i think many different idea's of exchanges from opentransactions, a doublecoin blockchain, ripple, and all the rest should all do their best to become a reality, giving the choice and freedom to people to either do totally trustless trading (doublecoin blockchains) to fast and semi centralised exchanges.
.. still thinking up a better brain fart of how to make a totally trustless trading platform that is still fast.
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I DO NOT TRADE OR ACT AS ESCROW ON THIS FORUM EVER.
Please do your own research & respect what is written here as both opinion & information gleaned from experience. many people replying with insults but no on-topic content substance, automatically are 'facepalmed' and yawned at
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D05GTO
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March 14, 2014, 12:42:57 PM |
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No bots, transparent, USD FINCEN License. Atomic-Trade https://www.atomic-trade.com/about |
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Armis (OP)
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March 14, 2014, 02:52:08 PM |
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what do you mean by "no bots" also, I visited Atomic-trade I liked what they had to say but they still left a lot to trust, I saw no insurance, no bond, no security deposit, no proof of solvency, no visible audit via block chain protocol, no photos with CV of the owners, directors, key employees, no community certification, no affidavit of proper business history (Mt Gox Pres was convicted of fraud prior to the purchase of Mt. Gox) ... |
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ByronP
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March 14, 2014, 05:31:00 PM |
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what do you mean by "no bots" also, I visited Atomic-trade I liked what they had to say but they still left a lot to trust, I saw no insurance, no bond, no security deposit, no proof of solvency, no visible audit via block chain protocol, no photos with CV of the owners, directors, key employees, no community certification, no affidavit of proper business history (Mt Gox Pres was convicted of fraud prior to the purchase of Mt. Gox) ... Please visit the company info page https://www.atomic-trade.com/about and look at the bottom of the page. Please also note that unlike gox we will NEVER operate on users funds so solvency is and will never be an issue. The site is still under construction (and probably always will be) however auditing and reporting pages will be created at some point so as not to be a gox. I'm not a PR guy so i hope that answers some questions people have. P.S. Please also note that because we are completely solvent that even our trade fees go back to our users for FREE via our ATP program. https://www.atomic-trade.com/Rewards |
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Armis (OP)
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March 14, 2014, 06:01:16 PM |
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what do you mean by "no bots" also, I visited Atomic-trade I liked what they had to say but they still left a lot to trust, I saw no insurance, no bond, no security deposit, no proof of solvency, no visible audit via block chain protocol, no photos with CV of the owners, directors, key employees, no community certification, no affidavit of proper business history (Mt Gox Pres was convicted of fraud prior to the purchase of Mt. Gox) ... Please visit the company info page https://www.atomic-trade.com/about and look at the bottom of the page. Please also note that unlike gox we will NEVER operate on users funds so solvency is and will never be an issue. The site is still under construction (and probably always will be) however auditing and reporting pages will be created at some point so as not to be a gox. I'm not a PR guy so i hope that answers some questions people have. P.S. Please also note that because we are completely solvent that even our trade fees go back to our users for FREE via our ATP program. https://www.atomic-trade.com/RewardsThanks for the reply, I looked at everything that was publicly available to see. The site gives unsupported promises, what I suggested and what this thread is all about is a higher level of integrity, like promises that are supported by higher and better security. It's your business, do as you wish however, all of today's industry norms are quickly becoming the way of the past, if you want to be ready for the fast approaching future I recommend heeding some of my suggestions. |
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ByronP
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March 14, 2014, 06:04:30 PM |
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what do you mean by "no bots" also, I visited Atomic-trade I liked what they had to say but they still left a lot to trust, I saw no insurance, no bond, no security deposit, no proof of solvency, no visible audit via block chain protocol, no photos with CV of the owners, directors, key employees, no community certification, no affidavit of proper business history (Mt Gox Pres was convicted of fraud prior to the purchase of Mt. Gox) ... Please visit the company info page https://www.atomic-trade.com/about and look at the bottom of the page. Please also note that unlike gox we will NEVER operate on users funds so solvency is and will never be an issue. The site is still under construction (and probably always will be) however auditing and reporting pages will be created at some point so as not to be a gox. I'm not a PR guy so i hope that answers some questions people have. P.S. Please also note that because we are completely solvent that even our trade fees go back to our users for FREE via our ATP program. https://www.atomic-trade.com/RewardsThanks for the reply, I looked at everything that was publicly available to see. The site gives unsupported promises, what I suggested and what this thread is all about is a higher level of integrity, like promises that are supported by higher and better security. It's your business, do as you wish however, all of today's industry norms are quickly becoming the way of the past, if you want to be ready for the fast approaching future I recommend heeding some of my suggestions. Tell me exactly what you want to see and i will get on it because "unsupported promises" is kind of vague. Thank You |
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ByronP
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March 14, 2014, 06:09:35 PM |
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What about a solvency page that lists all holding of the site and shows the total in the accounts and the total on hand for all currencies and i have the system run an update once a day to calculate the amounts? Good idea???
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QuestionAuthority
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Merit: 1393
You lead and I'll watch you walk away.
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March 14, 2014, 06:24:35 PM |
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What about a solvency page that lists all holding of the site and shows the total in the accounts and the total on hand for all currencies and i have the system run an update once a day to calculate the amounts? Good idea???
Yeah, that would be impossible to game, especially for a coder with the ability to set up an exchange. What about an exchange in your local neighborhood where you can walk in between 8am and 5pm and conduct your business. They could even have machines on the outside of the building that will allow you to get Bitcoins after hours if you have an account. |
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ByronP
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March 14, 2014, 06:28:09 PM |
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What about a solvency page that lists all holding of the site and shows the total in the accounts and the total on hand for all currencies and i have the system run an update once a day to calculate the amounts? Good idea???
Yeah, that would be impossible to game, especially for a coder with the ability to set up an exchange. What about an exchange in your local neighborhood where you can walk in between 8am and 5pm and conduct your business. They could even have machines on the outside of the building that will allow you to get Bitcoins after hours if you have an account. Hmm ok good point. I do welcome anyone to come visit me but idk if wasting $ on a storefront is wortwhiworthwhile... hhmmmmm something to ponder... |
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